What would to formula be for plotting the equation to determine MMR? I am having trouble trying to plot mine. I know my formula is somewhat like
12*(187 - 182) - sigma
Though, I am wondering would this formula work for calculating MMR?
G = games played Gl (the l is notation, no effect on formula) games lost O(sigma) = Formula for sigma addition or reduction based upon your opponents sigma and matchmaking ranking r = rate at which bonus pool is gained a = amount gained per time constant in bonus pool (IF APPLIED TO YOUR MATCHMAKING POINTS) m = Your match making points (the ones visible for ladder)
So the formula would work something like this
(G - Gl)*12 = m - ra = matchmaking ranking - sigma Then to graph this y = matchmaking ranking - sigma x = O(your sigma) If we apply this to an equation (of which we must use the opposite derivative of matchmaking ranking - sigma) This should two dimensionally determine your MMR, along with anyone with either less games, lower matchmaking ranking (with possible lower sigmas).
So... does this mean that I cant compare my skill lvl to the players I Battle in the top10 in my league? I mean If I have 1500 rating and Im the 3. in my league and the guys above and bellow me are around the same rating. Can I then say that Im fairly even in skill to them? Or is it hidden in the MMR?
On October 26 2010 06:35 Pippah wrote: So... does this mean that I cant compare my skill lvl to the players I Battle in the top10 in my league? I mean If I have 1500 rating and Im the 3. in my league and the guys above and bellow me are around the same rating. Can I then say that Im fairly even in skill to them? Or is it hidden in the MMR?
It is not hidden in MMR, it is a portion of uncertainty about the player's skill that is hidden in MMR that is affected by matchmaking games. (that is sigma) This sigma and MMR are used to hopefully acurrately map the player's skill, and the MMR and sigma get more defined as more games are played
Okay maybe I asked wrong, what I meant was, If I have 1500 rating and someone else in the same league (not necesarily the one im put in, but samme metal) has 1501 are we then pretty even in skill or is that uncomparable because of the bonus pool and MMR ?
Forgive me if this is a newbie question but isn't the easiest way to 'estimate' MMR to just ladder? I placed into diamond very early in retail and wasn't able to play much due to work etc.
In the last week while climbing now that I have more time I noticed while I started playing at Rating = 500, I would only get matched up with diamond 1400-1600. I assume this is due to my mmr being around 1500? Is this not the case? Of course you're going to get outliers but if you just laddered say 15 games and took the avg displayed rating of your opponents wouldn't that be pretty close to your MMR?
On October 26 2010 10:18 crms wrote: Forgive me if this is a newbie question but isn't the easiest way to 'estimate' MMR to just ladder? I placed into diamond very early in retail and wasn't able to play much due to work etc.
In the last week while climbing now that I have more time I noticed while I started playing at Rating = 500, I would only get matched up with diamond 1400-1600. I assume this is due to my mmr being around 1500? Is this not the case? Of course you're going to get outliers but if you just laddered say 15 games and took the avg displayed rating of your opponents wouldn't that be pretty close to your MMR?
It wouldn't be 100% accurate, but it would be close. The reason is that divisions aren't equal, and you also have to account for the variance in opponents (for example if you had a 1500 rating but 150 sigma you could play against a 1650 player despite being only 1500, even though you would think based on opponent ratings that you are a 1650). MMR also is tricky to track because it changes so much after each game.
On October 26 2010 10:10 Pippah wrote: Okay maybe I asked wrong, what I meant was, If I have 1500 rating and someone else in the same league (not necesarily the one im put in, but samme metal) has 1501 are we then pretty even in skill or is that uncomparable because of the bonus pool and MMR ?
Bonus pool has no effect on actual MMR. It would make it seem like you are of even skill, but he might have had a larger bonus pool, and was able to climb through that. 1501 is in no way actually comparable to 1501, unless bonus pool was removed and both players had play the same amount of games.
What determines skill comparitevly is your MMR and your sigma. So the two ratings are probably incomparable
On October 26 2010 10:10 Pippah wrote: Okay maybe I asked wrong, what I meant was, If I have 1500 rating and someone else in the same league (not necesarily the one im put in, but samme metal) has 1501 are we then pretty even in skill or is that uncomparable because of the bonus pool and MMR ?
Bonus pool has no effect on actual MMR. It would make it seem like you are of even skill, but he might have had a larger bonus pool, and was able to climb through that. 1501 is in no way actually comparable to 1501, unless bonus pool was removed and both players had play the same amount of games.
What determines skill comparitevly is your MMR and your sigma. So the two ratings are probably incomparable
That makes me sad that I now know this, Id much rather have lived in ignorance - Why even bother with rating then if you cannot compare your skill level to anyone. Why bother putting people in divisions if there is no comparable relation with your rating and the ones you are battleing for the top spot. I feel cheated that I may fight for a top spot in my league and the ones im fighting may be way better or worse than me. meh. ;/
On October 26 2010 10:10 Pippah wrote: Okay maybe I asked wrong, what I meant was, If I have 1500 rating and someone else in the same league (not necesarily the one im put in, but samme metal) has 1501 are we then pretty even in skill or is that uncomparable because of the bonus pool and MMR ?
Bonus pool has no effect on actual MMR. It would make it seem like you are of even skill, but he might have had a larger bonus pool, and was able to climb through that. 1501 is in no way actually comparable to 1501, unless bonus pool was removed and both players had play the same amount of games.
What determines skill comparitevly is your MMR and your sigma. So the two ratings are probably incomparable
That makes me sad that I now know this, Id much rather have lived in ignorance - Why even bother with rating then if you cannot compare your skill level to anyone. Why bother putting people in divisions if there is no comparable relation with your rating and the ones you are battleing for the top spot. I feel cheated that I may fight for a top spot in my league and the ones im fighting may be way better or worse than me. meh. ;/
but, remember, you are still kicking ass against players of your "skill level" so that means you are better then them
Just for fun I made a graph to see how bonus points affect ranks within a division. This graph is from my own division. On the X axis is rank with bonus pool and on the Y axis is rank with bonus pool removed. If bonus pool had no effect the graph would be a straight line from (1,1) to (100,100). Now we can see that the order is totally messed up. For example, the guy with rank 37 (red circle) would be rank 1 if noone had bonus points, and he could be closest to promotion of everyone in my division. On the other hand the guy with rank 46 (green circle) is the worst of the lot.
This is probably no news to most people here, but I think it is illustrative anyway. Some ask "I'm number one in my division, why am I not promoted?" and this shows why. Points are useless, and it kind of makes sites as sc2ranks.com useless too. I think it's sad.
For the sake of removing the influence of bonus points as I did here you don't need to know how many bonus points you've used. You can just add everyones remaining bonus pool to their score as if they had used all of it.
If you want to know how many bonus points you have used you need to subtract your remaining bonus points from the total available bonus pool, which is the same for everyone. It is currently 1290 points in EU and increases 1 point every 2 hours.
On October 29 2010 05:20 ribboo wrote: How do you see how many bonus-points you've used?
Everybody has earned the same number of bonus points, IIRC it's 1 point for every 2 hours of time since the game was released. So if you look at how many bonus points you have and subtract that from the total number of points (12/day the game has been out) you will arrive at your answer.
On October 29 2010 05:07 Mendelfist wrote: Just for fun I made a graph to see how bonus points affect ranks within a division. This graph is from my own division. On the X axis is rank with bonus pool and on the Y axis is rank with bonus pool removed. If bonus pool had no effect the graph would be a straight line from (1,1) to (100,100). Now we can see that the order is totally messed up. For example, the guy with rank 37 (red circle) would be rank 1 if noone had bonus points, and he could be closest to promotion of everyone in my division. On the other hand the guy with rank 46 (green circle) is the worst of the lot.
This is probably no news to most people here, but I think it is illustrative anyway. Some ask "I'm number one in my division, why am I not promoted?" and this shows why. Points are useless, and it kind of makes sites as sc2ranks.com useless too. I think it's sad.
So lets say 800 bonus points have been used so far. Then you just did ranking+remaining bonus pool-800 to get bonus pool removed? I don't think thats fair, since you get favoured/even more often when you have more points. So you will lose more and win less compared to people of equal skill that have less points.
Just checked the 36 first in my league, seems the only real difference between the top placed ones and the ones placed lower, are the bonus-points. Seems like I'm not 4th, but at the shared first place as well *yay* Is it really valid to count this way though?
FYI this is a rough idea of how we perceive promotions to operate. Once your moving average (black line) levels out and stabilizes within the confines of a new league, that's where you move to:
On October 29 2010 05:42 IPS.ZeRo wrote: So lets say 800 bonus points have been used so far. Then you just did ranking+remaining bonus pool-800 to get bonus pool removed? I don't think thats fair, since you get favoured/even more often when you have more points. So you will lose more and win less compared to people of equal skill that have less points.
I don't think bonus points are included in any calculations at all other than your displayed points and rank. It would not make sense. Also my own match history disproves your theory. For example, in my last match I had 1062 points in gold and met someone with 338 points in gold. The match was considered even. If we compare our points with bonus pool removed however they were much closer: 112 and 77. http://www.lysator.liu.se/~john/history.html
On October 25 2010 15:57 Slaytesics wrote: What would to formula be for plotting the equation to determine MMR? I am having trouble trying to plot mine. I know my formula is somewhat like
12*(187 - 182) - sigma
Though, I am wondering would this formula work for calculating MMR?
G = games played Gl (the l is notation, no effect on formula) games lost O(sigma) = Formula for sigma addition or reduction based upon your opponents sigma and matchmaking ranking r = rate at which bonus pool is gained a = amount gained per time constant in bonus pool (IF APPLIED TO YOUR MATCHMAKING POINTS) m = Your match making points (the ones visible for ladder)
So the formula would work something like this
(G - Gl)*12 = m - ra = matchmaking ranking - sigma Then to graph this y = matchmaking ranking - sigma x = O(your sigma) If we apply this to an equation (of which we must use the opposite derivative of matchmaking ranking - sigma) This should two dimensionally determine your MMR, along with anyone with either less games, lower matchmaking ranking (with possible lower sigmas).
I'm wondering, how do u know you sigma? as without knowing it, you cannot know ur approx. MMR ive been stuck at top of the leage for the last 20 games and want a promotion :p i wanna know if its coz my MMR is bad, or if im close....... or what :D
EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.lysator.liu.se/~john/chart.png)
![[image loading]](http://s2.kimag.es/share/37246343.jpg)
ive been stuck at top of the leage for the last 20 games and want a promotion :p i wanna know if its coz my MMR is bad, or if im close....... or what :D
