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I know this has been discussed tons of times but now SC2 is out I'd like to look at it again.
Let me first say I am not sure if it is coincidence or not but I have never lost to an opponent who has randomed since SC2 release, they seem to be very weak players unable to deal with any creativity. I assume they are in diamond league because of the insane advantage that going random gives you, however they have no real practice playing Starcraft 2. I mean because when my opponent randoms he doesn't get the privilege of playing vs a real build, all of my openings become distinct within 30 seconds of the game so I have no way to scout him in time to adjust. So I simply have a 4th opening to deal with random, which however does not only a disservice to me, but really to my opposition also.
I would like to hear other diamond league players thoughts on if it is rude to random and not say your race or if they are doing themselves such disservice that we should let them be.
Or am I completely in the wrong is random somehow justified... and to be honest I hate the argument that they have to learn 9 match ups... because it seems like playing longer giving you an advantage is too MMO style for me. I think everyone should start the game the exact same and thats what makes a good RTS.
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Why would it be rude to hide your race if you go random? That's the whole point of going random. TLO never revealed his race when he played random in tournaments. Do you think he was being bad mannered by hiding his race?
Now, I play random in ladder because I want to learn all the races and eventually pick my favorite and only play "standard" builds. Sure, I might not be very creative but I don't feel you need to be creative to have very solid mechanics and know how to play.
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People play the game for different reasons.
Some prefer to get as high a rank as possible with as little effort as possible. These people will naturally gravitate towards cheese, protoss 4 gate all ins, or terran. (EDIT: it's sarcasm people)
Others prefer to actually improve and will focus on playing long macro games emphasizing mechanics, clever tactics, and different strategies.
And some just want to have fun playing all of the races and are willing to take the small advantage that random awards. Random is far more cheese resistant than picking a race, which means you can focus more on the things that matter. If you want to improve your anti cheese game, you can do that with a friend at any time.
It's not bad mannered in any way not to announce your race, just as it isn't bad mannered to not tell someone you're about to cheese them. People play the way they want, and as long as it works within the boundaries of the game, it's acceptable. Don't box people into your own preconceived notions of what's manner or acceptable.
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Your best bet is getting really good with one race. Once you've mastered a race, you already know all the other offraces build orders by then and you can play them very well, assuming you actually are good at the game at that point. If you just play for fun and not competitive random could be more fun. If im up 1-0 or vs somebody very bad in league matches i random and say my race, but i think im one of few. It has nothing to do with manners, i'm very bad mannered, but i don't care for an advantage
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no it's not rude lol what the hell kind of question is that
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No, it's not rude. I simply scout them much earlier than normal, like on 7 or 8 rather than 14 food. It delays my build by about 2-3 seconds, but it's not a huge deal at my level of play.
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I don't think random is BM. It is a feature of the game. It has advantages and disadvantages. If a player can be superb in every race (TLO), good for him, but it is certainly more difficult to do that.
You can specialize in one race, but show your race to others, or you can be good in all of them and have the advantage of the mistery. 
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FC strike, hawk and solheim you are all diamond yes?
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this is FAR from a dilemma.... what an extreme exaggeration.
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I'm personally a Diamond level player, yes. I started the Beta as a Zerg player, climbed to Diamond, switched to Terran, did it again, and the same with Protoss. Then I switched to random because I know all three races enough and I like the variety.
Were you trying to make a point as to how playing random gives us some sort of "insane advantage," thus we're all in the Diamond league? It's really not as massive as you make it out to be.
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I know a person who Random's just because he likes to cheese with any race and likes having a leg-up in scouting on his opponent. But there are numerous examples of people who like Random because it greatly increases their understanding of the game. Afterall, it's a lot easier to see how other people beat your strat than trying to figure out how to beat it yourself.
I don't think it's rude. It just is what it is.
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I played terran for a while and then switched to random. When i get terran on ladder I always win because I am ranked so low from my zerg and toss losses.
Random is more fun and interesting; I get a less biased perspective, play more varied games and get to learn the mechanics of the other races so I can exploit them.
It's more fun to play random.
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It is not rude.
I always play random to not get bored of one race and to diversify. Its not a disadvantage to anyone if you don't know a race. You have to scout either way, doesn't matter if you know their race-- so what does it matter?
If I were playing a touranment, maybe I'll play a certain race... maybe not... you can't tell me what to do. In the end, you will win because you played well, not because you were random and it threw off your opponent.
+I was rank 3 diamond in beta, not that it means anything. I only played random in beta. I also doubt you've beaten every random player you have played.
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I hate getting TvT matchups when people random, and i hate being up against randoms on big maps, kulas for insatnce.
I just have to default to a 10 depo, 12 rax, 13 gas build no matter what. I don't like it 
But yeah, people who play random are generally significantly weaker then others in AM.
Like vs toss i might not want to get gas, often its better to 4rax FE, or against terran i don't wall my ramp, but in random games i have to do the most basic thing ever, and it usually ends up biting me in the ass
But if you play random just not to get bored, why would it be a disadvantage to you to let the opponent know what race you are in the loading screen?
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I think that you might have a mental disability. How can it be such an insane advantage yet you have never lost to one?
Or am I completely in the wrong is random somehow justified... and to be honest I hate the argument that they have to learn 9 match ups... because it seems like playing longer giving you an advantage is too MMO style for me. I think everyone should start the game the exact same and thats what makes a good RTS.
This is just amazing really. Are you saying that a random player taking the time to learn 9 matchups and then having their random advantage on top of that is too MMO style? Because all they need is enough time to learn the matchups? That is such demented logic I can't honestly believe that is really your argument. By that logic anybody that plays any game longer and gets better because of it is playing an MMO style game and that is not fair somehow. Experience is not fair apparently. An RTS is only a good game if everyone is the exact same skill. Are you a communist?
Please try and think before you post. I also think you should check yourself into a mental hospital.
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I am a Diamond random player (~400 pts). I play random because playing random is fun, and I play games for fun. Id really like you to post your four BOs because I am struggling to see how different they could possibly be. And random puts you at a disadvantage not advantage. All the stats show this Diamond players average about 55% win rate while random diamonds are around 52%.
As for announcing your race, personally I think its more BM for you to ask, then it is for me not to tell you. If people ask my response is random or R.
because it seems like playing longer giving you an advantage is too MMO style for me.
as for this crazy statement, koreans practice 12 hours a day for a reason it give an advantage over someone who plays less then that. Random players would have to practice even more then that which is why you will never see a random top level player. TLO was able to pull it off early beta because no one had played that much, but he has now switched to terran.
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i play random because the game doesnt take alot of skill, so im pretty evenly diamond with each race. im sure later ill have to choose a race to figure out all the strategies but as the game is now it doesnt really matter.
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RUDE!!!!! I don't think so! pretty obvious that a random player try to pick one race or try to play diffrent for fun!!!
On another end, as a zerg player, playing on a 4 player map against a random player that ends up spawning as zerg..................................................is pretty shity....... except if you scout him first or send couples of drones at the biginning.... yet again.... that puts your opponent in a HUGE advantage in the early game!!!!!
Can't come up with a most imbalanced situation in the game!!!!!!!!
I'm gold right now (climbing..... climbing) and I'm pretty sure i could cheese more than 50% diamond player in that situation!!!!!
The solution is clear though..... click on random when you select your race, and while it's loading, both names AND races are anounced.... random players will still play random (not choosing) but it's even game for the 2 players!!!!!!
*** certainly not rude though***
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I play random and I always announce my race (except maybe if I am in a bad mood and it is ZvZ on a close position 2 player map)
I play random to get to know all the races and I have weak mental strength so playing random adds to the variety and possibly makes me play longer.
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You start by saying you've never lost to a random player and you're saying its a dilemma because they won't tell you their race? Thats part of being random deal with it you can ask but they won't always tell why should they? Your logic is pretty cloudy here.
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I'm a diamond random player because it makes the game HARDER for me, not easier. You're not too bright if you think playing random is easier. Sure, some random players do it to cheese every game - but some zerg players 6-10 pool every game too, so what's your point? There are lots of random players that don't cheese all the time.
The majority of my games my opponent uses a standard build order. Seriously, you don't know WTF you're talking about.
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On August 04 2010 04:08 ReketSomething wrote:
I play random and I always announce my race (except maybe if I am in a bad mood and it is ZvZ on a close position 2 player map)
I play random to get to know all the races and I have weak mental strength so playing random adds to the variety and possibly makes me play longer.
Now if I was your opponent, why would I believe you when you announce your race? I have had random players lie to me many times so I NEVER EVER believe what my opponent will say.
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im going random till i pick a race... i wanna explore each race and match up and try to use differnt tactics and units before i settle... anyway i always try to say my race (in 1v1 atleast).. old gm habit from ic
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On August 04 2010 04:11 holy_war wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 04:08 ReketSomething wrote:
I play random and I always announce my race (except maybe if I am in a bad mood and it is ZvZ on a close position 2 player map)
I play random to get to know all the races and I have weak mental strength so playing random adds to the variety and possibly makes me play longer. Now if I was your opponent, why would I believe you when you announce your race? I have had random players lie to me many times so I NEVER EVER believe what my opponent will say.
Wow, I've never actually had a random player lie to me about their race. Then again, I've only had like one or two people actually announce their race. Which is fine, because I don't expect them to.
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Needing more time to get better an MMO thing? MMO makes you get better without necessarily increasing your skill. You think top players don't practice way more than your average player to get that good?
Of course random players have a huge disadvantage for playing more races. The minor scouting window just means a very slight possible disadvantage for you early. (Not very relevant at the diamond ladder level IMO) Saying that you never lost reinforces this. I personally tell race when I random but whatever.
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lol if you haven't lost to a random player I suspect your random size is <5. And if you never lost to one, why are you whining?
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How many professional players use random? Do leagues allow it?
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there is some racial imbalance versus though; zerg openings are radically different based on opponent race, but protoss openings are pretty much exactly the same (until 20 supply). that is something to consider when discussing this debate.
nonetheless, people play to win. "Random" is not an unfair advantage, because nothing prevents you from picking random. if it were really so imbalanced, you should pick it up too.
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Indeed, if the amount of time you spend doesn't matter everything would be based on intrinsic skill. In other words, talent.
If you want that, maybe 100m sprint would be a better game for you.
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On August 04 2010 04:16 carwashguy wrote:
How many professional players use random? Do leagues allow it?
I think this isn't done just because if you want to be the best of the best you're better off spending all your practice time on one race rather than all 3.
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On August 04 2010 04:02 jamesr12 wrote:
As for announcing your race, personally I think its more BM for you to ask, then it is for me not to tell you. If people ask my response is random or R.
I personally go with " Zergatossan "
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On August 04 2010 04:13 FC.Strike wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 04:11 holy_war wrote:On August 04 2010 04:08 ReketSomething wrote:
I play random and I always announce my race (except maybe if I am in a bad mood and it is ZvZ on a close position 2 player map)
I play random to get to know all the races and I have weak mental strength so playing random adds to the variety and possibly makes me play longer. Now if I was your opponent, why would I believe you when you announce your race? I have had random players lie to me many times so I NEVER EVER believe what my opponent will say. Wow, I've never actually had a random player lie to me about their race. Then again, I've only had like one or two people actually announce their race. Which is fine, because I don't expect them to.
Every time I've played a random player (which is kind of a small sample size ~5), they cheese me. It's not even a well thought out cheese, it's just like "build pool/barracks/gateway as quickly as possible."
I'm fine with random players otherwise. I'd just like to know ahead of time what type of cheese I should expect =/
Also, I've had people lie to me about their race after going random on ICCUP. Like the zerg who said he was terran and then went 4 pool against gate first and lost.
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On August 04 2010 03:26 Jyxz wrote:
I know this has been discussed tons of times but now SC2 is out I'd like to look at it again.
Let me first say I am not sure if it is coincidence or not but I have never lost to an opponent who has randomed since SC2 release, they seem to be very weak players unable to deal with any creativity. I assume they are in diamond league because of the insane advantage that going random gives you, however they have no real practice playing Starcraft 2. I mean because when my opponent randoms he doesn't get the privilege of playing vs a real build, all of my openings become distinct within 30 seconds of the game so I have no way to scout him in time to adjust. So I simply have a 4th opening to deal with random, which however does not only a disservice to me, but really to my opposition also.
I would like to hear other diamond league players thoughts on if it is rude to random and not say your race or if they are doing themselves such disservice that we should let them be.
Or am I completely in the wrong is random somehow justified... and to be honest I hate the argument that they have to learn 9 match ups... because it seems like playing longer giving you an advantage is too MMO style for me. I think everyone should start the game the exact same and thats what makes a good RTS.
This a garbage OP. I really don't get the point of making this thread when you say you have beat every random player you faced yet it seems like you are fuming at how rude it is to play random. Sounds like the only peeve you have with them is the fact they won't necessarily tell you which race they got. I'm sorry but it isn't their job to tell you. That's why we call it scouting. All of your openings become distinct within 30 seconds of the game? lmao. Any good player will tell you it would be wise to do safe builds that will allow you to adapt to different scenarios quickly. It is a fundamental trait of a good player. My recommendation to you is to scout after your first ovie/depot/pylon when you don't know their race instead of waiting after your opening rax/gate/etc.
I cannot take you seriously. I for one play random, as do many of my friends and we're all in diamond with good win rates. (Note: That doesn't say much considering how easy it is to get there atm). Tongue in cheek. PM me and hopefully we can set something up.
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So far i met 2 (two) Random opponents who didnt allin me. Zergs 7 pool, Terrans BBS or 1 base allin, Protos canon rush/ dual proxy or maybe 1 base allin.
So yeah, i dont like playing against Random. They definetly do not have to learn 9 matchups, the fact is, with few exception, random players cant play either of the matchups, or maybe one or two, the rest is just abuse.
And i'm in Diamond 500+ rating, so i dont want to imagine how bad the situation is on lower rankings
But props for the few who understand and play all the matchups.
As for annoucing the race, i thin if you want to get better you should, but random players usaully just want to win so...
I always tell my race, if my opponent missed it for some reason
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I don't see the dilemma. If you go random there is no requirement to announce your race.
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If blizzard saw this as a problem they would announce what race the random player got on the loading screen.
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Every time I see someone complaining about playing against random players I see someone who can't play a reactionary game and likes to simply go for one hard strat against each race.
If you would like, I'm sure there are lots of us on here who would be more than happy to post replays of us beating non-random players (without "cheese", though personally I don't believe that "cheese" exists (and no, I don't 6 pool or cannon rush)).
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On August 04 2010 04:40 sikyon wrote:
Every time I see someone complaining about playing against random players I see someone who can't play a reactionary game and likes to simply go for one hard strat against each race.
If you would like, I'm sure there are lots of us on here who would be more than happy to post replays of us beating non-random players (without "cheese", though personally I don't believe that "cheese" exists (and no, I don't 6 pool or cannon rush)).
cannon rush (PvZ) isnt cheese if you do it like tester, to secure an expansion ^___^
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On August 04 2010 04:32 nam nam wrote:
If blizzard saw this as a problem they would announce what race the random player got on the loading screen.
Hum...hum...hum...
Facebook identity problem for pros...
No chat room...
No LAN...
Ya, your right.... chat room were silly... just get rid of them.... that was a problem...
What about LAN????? We are lucky that blizzard thought this was a problem too!!!!!!! should of been fixed even in broodwar right???????????
Well tought namnam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and all of these will certainly be added sooner or later and i don't think blizzard saw them as problems......
IT's NOT because the option to see your opponent race while loading is not in the game than it shouldn't be in the game!!!
Just thinkin.......
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On August 04 2010 04:42 unit wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 04:40 sikyon wrote:
Every time I see someone complaining about playing against random players I see someone who can't play a reactionary game and likes to simply go for one hard strat against each race.
If you would like, I'm sure there are lots of us on here who would be more than happy to post replays of us beating non-random players (without "cheese", though personally I don't believe that "cheese" exists (and no, I don't 6 pool or cannon rush)). cannon rush (PvZ) isnt cheese if you do it like tester, to secure an expansion ^___^
canon rush absolutely is cheese
One may say it s not an allin, but surely is a cheese
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Agree with Billyten that blizzard showed clearly that sometimes they can ridiculous things without any good justification.
I don't have yet my SC2 copy so didn't experienced random players , but I think when I'll finally start to play I'm going to also play random ( at least at the beginning) to learn all 3 races first.
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When I play random I don't announce race... but if they ask then I tell them.
And it's not an 'insane advantage'. Just scout earlier since it seems like there are quite a few random players that only do proxies/all-ins.
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I random in ladder because I want the 1000 random win icon.
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On August 04 2010 04:42 Billyten wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 04:32 nam nam wrote:
If blizzard saw this as a problem they would announce what race the random player got on the loading screen. Hum...hum...hum... Facebook identity problem for pros... No chat room... No LAN... Ya, your right.... chat room were silly... just get rid of them.... that was a problem... What about LAN????? We are lucky that blizzard thought this was a problem too!!!!!!! should of been fixed even in broodwar right??????????? Well tought namnam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and all of these will certainly be added sooner or later and i don't think blizzard saw them as problems...... IT's NOT because the option to see your opponent race while loading is not in the game than it shouldn't be in the game!!! Just thinkin.......
Wow, I'm amazed what you managed to read into a single sentence. I'm very well aware that Blizzard isn't perfect but they justifiably don't see this as a problem. But keep making you points in such a well spoken manner and maybe you'll manage to convince a 5 year old that you are correct.
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I almost never lose to random players, but just yesterday I lost a game specifically because the opponent was random (I tailored a build that would lose if the opponent walled off quickly) and got behind cause it failed. I ended up losing a close game that would have been an easy win if the opponent hadn't gotten Terran AND walled off. I gambled and lost - but thats a large part of what playing "Random" does. Most players are much better at one (or even two) races than they are at the others. TLO switched to Terran because he was great at two races but not quite as good with a third.
It is not "rude" to be random, if it provided any real sustainable advantage all the pros would do it. Most people agree it is a disadvantage to the random player themselves.
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Every time I play a Terran they wall their ramp and I don't know what they're doing in their base. So rude. They should announce their strategy at the start of every game. Maybe also announce if their wall is baneling proof or at least refrain from shooting at my overlord the first five minutes.
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i'm just gonna hop in here to join the collective chorus in saying that the OP is just dumb. I am a random diamond player myself, and though I hate to sound elitist, I think it really is only the lower league random players that do it exclusively to all in and cheese.
I play random because it allows for MORE creativity, not less. Being creative and thinking up your own strats/build orders is my favorite part of the game, so I love being able to play all 9 possible match-ups.
I also play, as others have said, to be less biased. Maybe some of the people crying OP over certain units or specific races would understand that its not as unbalanced as they think if they played those races and tried to use those units.
To be honest, a lot of what playing starcraft is about is being unpredictable. If you play predictably then you'll get easily countered. I like playing unpredictable strategies, and playing random only makes them more unpredictable.
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I can't believe what I'm reading.
I play random on a diamond level. I never cheese, never announce my race (unless they politely ask), and have no problem playing against other random players. My win percentage is just over 50 and I don't do dumb all-in builds all the time. Maybe I'm in the minority, but I seriously doubt it. Most of the cheese I see is from people who actually pick a race.
The only disadvantage you have is that you're forced to go for your standard build up until about 13 or 14 supply, which is early enough to respond to a cheese. A six-pool on steppes can be stopped if you scout around 10 or so.
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I'm diamond random. I never cheese. 20-11
At first I was going to play Protoss, but TLO inspired me to play random; it was pretty awesome for him to prove that he could play ANY race at the highest level (even though he can't really play toss as well ).
It is certainly much more challenging. OP mentioned he has 4 openings? I have to have 9 openings. There are 9 matchups to master while a traditional one race player only experiences 3. Does a zerg player even know anything TvP?
Also, I've come to believe that I'm getting the whole game experience. I think it's more fun because I'm playing all the races where as most people will only ever play 1/3 of the full game.
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I hate random players because it's fucking unfair. The only reason I don't play random myself is because I don't want to be an asshole and subject other players to the horror. If I just played to win without having any remorse, I'd definitely be random.
If they announce their race though, it's fine
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What the hell is that. I'm a diamond random player myself, and I play random because I haven't decided on a race yet and I like to vary so far. And from my experience I've seen more people cheese against random that random player cheese (but that's only from what I saw). I don't cheese either and play standard pretty much everytime (except for an 4 gate once in a while).
If you say you haven't ever lost to a random yet you just havent played a good one yet.
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When I go random, I play the same as when I pick a race. I don't cheese, and I'm a gm player. That does NOT mean that I automatically announce my race though. Playing random makes the game harder for me (by making me have multiple openings prepared) as much as it does you (not knowing what opener to go with right away). I shouldn't need to tell you my race any more than someone on a 4 player map should need to announce their spawn location (So I can prepare for a close build vs a cross-map build).
There are some players who go random just to have 3 cheese options. But these players will eventually be weeded out. They may dominate the lower leagues, but once they hit higher leagues where people scout better/can defend against cheese, they will learn that it takes more than gimmicks to become a good player.
(Please note that I don't consider cheese or gimmicks to be bm or a sign of a bad player. I mean that a player who does nothing but early cheese every game with no mid or late game strategy is a bad player.)
I don't play random for the advantage it gives me against the other player. I do it to better learn all 3 races. If I start to focus on just one race, I'm worried I wouldn't be able to get into the other races once I got my main race to diamond level. Playing random forces me to practice all 3 races, and all 9 matchups.
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i dont understand this huge advantage a random player gets that you speak of? their oponent not knowing their race for the first 30 seconds of the game isnt a big advantage. and although you hate the argument, learning to use 3 different races effectively is a difficult thing to do. so no its not rude for them to not reveal their race. just scout earlier than you would normally.
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This entire thread just seems like a random 28 poster guy trying to wave his epenis in front of us -_-.
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there will never be a dominating random player. Tlo was good but even he knows it would be too hard.
so just let random players be random. I dont think i can name anybody who was really good random rts player except testie. As Times go on it will just get harder though
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Regarding the learning more match ups argument:
I'm an average diamond random player* and considering the game is only a week old it is a lot harder to work out what I'd like to do in every match up. I'd say that I'm currently only happy with 5 or 6 match ups, since I simply haven't had the time to test different things for all of them.
Obviously this will be of a lesser extent once more time has passed but I think for now it is a relevant point to consider.
* I wouldn't mention my league at all but the OP seemed to think that only people in diamond have valid opinions.
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On August 04 2010 06:21 Kantom wrote:
* I wouldn't mention my league at all but the OP seemed to think that only people in diamond have valid opinions.
I wish more people were of this opinion. I really hate that now with the SC2 ladder division system, you have to state your credentials in order to be taken seriously.
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On August 04 2010 07:11 Aqueous wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2010 06:21 Kantom wrote:
* I wouldn't mention my league at all but the OP seemed to think that only people in diamond have valid opinions. I wish more people were of this opinion. I really hate that now with the SC2 ladder division system, you have to state your credentials in order to be taken seriously.
So what? Befor this ladder system you had to tell your iccup rank, with link to your profile, in order to be taken seriously
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On August 04 2010 05:52 Apocalyptic wrote:It is not "rude" to be random, if it provided any real sustainable advantage all the pros would do it.
That.
The whole "random is an insane advantage" pseudo argument is utterly contradicted by reality. In the top 100 2% of the people are random. In the top 1000 6%. In the top 5000 8%.
( http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=140559 )
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Who cares if ppl random.. I do basically the same build every game anyhow on the ladder.. it's the fastest way to learn.
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This must've been the most absurd question of all times. Seriously but:
L
O
L
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It's hilarious how many people are saying random is unfair or gives an 'insane advantage'. Try being able to play all 3 races at a high level then come back and say the opponent of a random player is at a disadvantage. If you're up against a random player, send an earlier scout or use a build order that will work against all races. Not hard.
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On August 04 2010 03:26 Jyxz wrote:
... and to be honest I hate the argument that they have to learn 9 match ups... because it seems like playing longer giving you an advantage is too MMO style for me. I think everyone should start the game the exact same and thats what makes a good RTS.
It is a perfectly valid argument; I cannot think of a game that would NOT give you an advantage by playing it more, it's hardly restricted to MMO's. Do you believe that koreans are good at BW because of their genes or because of the insane amount of time they put into it?
Perhaps Rock-Paper-Scissors is closer to what you are looking for in a game >_>
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I tried random and the second biggest disadvantage I had was that I got scouted more and earlier. Second is that you don't get as good with all of the races as you get sticking with one.
so, I think the disadvantage is on the random players.
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On August 04 2010 20:54 Lighioana wrote:
I tried random and the second biggest disadvantage I had was that I got scouted more and earlier.
Haha, my thoughts exactly. I can't cheese when everyone scouts me at 7 :D
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I love playing random in 2v2... I can practice all of the builds that I lose to if my opponents are Z
On August 04 2010 20:54 Lighioana wrote:
I tried random and the second biggest disadvantage I had was that I got scouted more and earlier. Second is that you don't get as good with all of the races as you get sticking with one.
so, I think the disadvantage is on the random players.
To be honest this is one of the advantages of playing random. Your opponent may either choose to stay in the dark or take a short economic hit by sending an earlier scout. If they 7 scout then they are completely wasting their time. There's very little that can be done that early, and a lot of random players don't cheese (besides the one big all-in play for Random is 6-8 pool).
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I play random for fun and variation. 14-7 in plat and I never cheese. So far I surprisingly havnt been cheesed in a single game either unlike the beta where cheese was the standard pretty much, especially against protss players. Always got cannon rushed, proxy gated or had a really early void ray in my base.
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Vs non random terran and random non terran i choose the first ;p
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On August 04 2010 20:27 Kantutan wrote:
It's hilarious how many people are saying random is unfair or gives an 'insane advantage'. Try being able to play all 3 races at a high level then come back and say the opponent of a random player is at a disadvantage. If you're up against a random player, send an earlier scout or use a build order that will work against all races. Not hard.
its the "grass always sooo greeen" attitude of the newguys. same reason why you see so much balance tears evrywhere even on TL now. evryone thinks their race/opinion/expirience is the one and only and evrything else is easy cheap and unfair.
that people finally cry about random is just the final proof how incredibly biased/stupid many people are today.
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How did this get to 4 pages?
I play random, and I'm flirting with diamond at the moment.
I don't announce my race, I wait for their scout, kill it as fast as I can, send mine, then put tech (unless I'm toss... that cyber goes down ASAP)
I don't go all in, nor cheese (usually :D ) and I just enjoying getting a feel for all the races anyway.
Although in my experience, random really isn't random... it seems quite streaky. 4 random tosses in a row, then 3 zergs, then 2 terrans... Mostly mirror matchups or vs terran. Big bummer.
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This is hilarious that he thinks random is overpowered and unfair. If that were the case all top players would be randoming...
lol
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As a random player who is 13-2, don't blame your loss on the fact that I went random, because you know my race once you send out first scouting probe.
I've been playing random in sc1 for about 10 years, and seeing as I'm no progamer, it doesn't even matter.
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I pick random so I can get all the achievements.
The huge advantage I get as random that basically automatically wins my games is helpful as well, though.
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i play t normal open against all 3 races so i scout them before i change ( after oc)
so i dont have any problem with random only that i wallin if hes random...
i think random is a good way to find the race thats fits you and also you undertand your enemy bedder...
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What I mean by an MMOisk advantage is this, because you put more time in doesnt mean your better at the game but it does mean you can know all match ups and start the game with an ADV. When you play more and reveal your race you win because you are BETTER at the game not because you started out with an advantage.
And I don't care if people random I used to random in the beta, and I dont ask peoples race at the start. However if I do random, which I often do for 2's or 3's to learn the other races, I most certainly say my race at the start.
And it does make sense that I would beat every random I play because they are higher ranked then they should be because of their inherent advantage. Vs. random I tend to play creativily and they are often unable to deal with it, because they never have to face real Build Orders because they are random.
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Random gives u no advantage.
Any good player will play standard and scout. By the time they need to adapt they already have scouted out the random players whole base.
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what league are you in? i could easily see how bronze/silver/gold league random players just like playing all races but are not good at any of them
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I random and tell ppl my race, (xcept in the one low lvl tourney i was in, but i got rocked anyways, so w/e), and i do it kus honestly, i enjoy playing all races, and this lets me do just that. Regardless of what i do, however, it doesnt make a person who doesnt announce race bm in any way.
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Not really a dilemma is not a dilemma.
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On August 04 2010 20:27 Kantutan wrote:
It's hilarious how many people are saying random is unfair or gives an 'insane advantage'. Try being able to play all 3 races at a high level then come back and say the opponent of a random player is at a disadvantage. If you're up against a random player, send an earlier scout or use a build order that will work against all races. Not hard.
Any top diamond player could be a top diamond player with any race. Just because YOU can't doesn't mean it's difficult. The game is not as complex as you make it, if I recall back when Protoss was actually good, DeMuslim and some other player took turns playing PvT in a BO5 and won their games as Toss. It's impossible to have Idra level macro if Zerg isn't your main, but it's not hard to be extremely competent.
This is not Brood War.
And you said it yourself, SCOUT earlier and use a build order that works against all races. You can't even comprehend how far that sets you behind doing that, you've already given random players a massive advantage by doing that.
Another obvious advantage/disadvantage is you never will almost never be a victim of early cheese. I consider this a disadvantage because most ladder players trying to do cheese is free wins, at top level play it's a huge advantage.
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I'm Zerg, and every time I get matched up against a player going Random who gets Zerg as well, they 6 pool me. So gay.
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EPT
