|
On August 13 2010 01:22 Jimmy Raynor wrote:
As a zerg you have to be prepared for everything, and have every possible tech structure. Want to harass? - get a spire! Opponent going mech, and you want to survive the mid game push? - get roaches! Opponent is going heavy bio? - get baneling nest! Then get infestation pit! Then later get ultralisks!
And the worst part is that zerg has a really hard time scouting so choosing what tech structure to build before the next becomes even a harder choice.
Yea I find that this is a big problem. Where Zerg is supposed to be able to "switch tech" apparently, it just doesn't cut it sometimes.
Terrans's with the 1/1/1 can switch tech much faster, given the fact that Tech Labs are interchangeable.
|
found it odd he never got a spire when he saw banshees though.
|
I can't help but feel incredibly frustrated over all of this. True, the game could actually be very well balanced theoretically if they remove some of the early game imbalane of Terran, but I'm sure Terran and Protoss will always dominate simply because they have more options available.
I don't like to say it this way, but Zerg just seems like a big bad bullshit race right now. Both Terran and Protoss have stronger units, and stronger viable "utilities" (fancy stuff they can do). Our macro is worse, with our macro mechanic by far being the most unforgiving, while we have zero chance of winning a game on one base against a non-retarded opponent. We're an incredibly reactive race because we have no turtle breakers, so we have to react to whatever our opponent is doing, yet we're by far the weakest race at defending our base as we have no way of turtling reasonably while the other two races have easy turtle breakers (colossi and tanks), plus our scouting possibilities are the worst of all 3 races again! (who would've guessed?), not even to mention the glaring issues like instantly losing a game because you didn't perfectly defend against a mighty thordrop or because you got ling speed against reapers too late because you didn't want to sacrafice your entire economy just to counter a build that the opponent might not even be doing.
I don't know... it feels to me like at the moment it might be somewhat balanced, as all Players make tons and tons of mistakes, but I'm sure Zerg will be raped in the ass so badly 6 months from now that it's not going to be funny... and it's going to stay that way until Blizzard either brings the lurker back or does some really drastic balance changes , neither of which are going to happen before the next expansion.
|
Ok how about this for roaches. its kinda funky putting something at 1.5 supply, but lings seem to be fine with the math. What if lings could morph into roaches? I mean its not that silly, roaches are eesential fat armored lings anyway. Everything else remains the same. Build time from ling to roach about 30/40 seconds to make it difficult to just run lings as far as you can and morph like you do banelings. Gives zerg a bit more diversity, because yo could make a jillion lings and expand, and still have alot of options with those lings. Zergs would have to really be good macroers, since you have more to do, but would that be bad?
You could even block ramps from hellions with eggs maybe  Guess I just miss lurkers, so the more morphin time units the better
|
On August 11 2010 14:47 Vokasak wrote:
To be fair, the top players are busy out being top players. I doubt they have the time to create the sheer volume of ZvT complain threads that these forums have seen lately. They're not the ones making them, and even if they were, their time would be better spent practicing the aforementioned various strategies and ideas.
ok Vokasak
ive been reading your posts and it seems clearly to me u are a terran player and also a troll
i would have to disagree with 90% of the things u have said. do u even realize who started this thread? slush is a renowned zerg player
about ur nydus comments that was a good example of a complete waste of resources. if he would have spend even half those resources on units he could have just a clicked and killed that protoss. he was terrible.
your comment about making vikings range 4 and siege tank damage 13 just goes on to prove my point that ur a troll newb.
about your comment on roach 1 food. maybe it shouldnt be 1 food but it's pretty stupid to have something so cheap use that much food. they should make it cost more and be better or make it weaker and 1 food. 2 food at 70 minerals is just stupid.
i bet ur wondering why everyone is bashing you. think before u talk and maybe go play some games as zerg. then maybe u would have the insight not to be a complete jack ass.
and FYI
im a random diamond player who thinks there is a problem. not sure what can and should be done but thats what this whole discussion is about. go troll the terran forums
|
On August 13 2010 02:02 bumatlarge wrote:Ok how about this for roaches. its kinda funky putting something at 1.5 supply, but lings seem to be fine with the math. What if lings could morph into roaches? I mean its not that silly, roaches are eesential fat armored lings anyway. Everything else remains the same. Build time from ling to roach about 30/40 seconds to make it difficult to just run lings as far as you can and morph like you do banelings. Gives zerg a bit more diversity, because yo could make a jillion lings and expand, and still have alot of options with those lings. Zergs would have to really be good macroers, since you have more to do, but would that be bad? You could even block ramps from hellions with eggs maybe Guess I just miss lurkers, so the more morphin time units the better
Thinkin a bit more on it, and I think this will knock to birds with one stone. It only adds more diversity to the zerg arsenal without messing with zvp and zvz (i actually think it wold make them more fun). You basically only make zerglings, and decide from what you scout, make roaches, blings or just keep your lings. You can respond to threats faster and be creative with your unit conposition. And you still cant mass roaches because of the time and mechanics you would need to continually crank them out. They take up less supply space, making them very viable in your 200/200 army to soak up hits and still dish out that damage.
Gonna throw some numbers and info out there to start with. Roach warren and tech remains the same.
Builds exactly like banelings, except for obvious things.
Cost: 50mins 25 gas 1 supply
Build time: 30 seconds
Not sure what else Id need to say. Everything can be changed up if it needs reworking. Larva management might be less important because for every larva its 2 roaches, but the path to getting it should make up for it. You wouldnt need perfect spawn larva to keep up with your roach production. Drones will be alot easier to dish out, not sure if that gives zerg too much of a buff.
|
On August 13 2010 03:01 Fizbin wrote:
ok Vokasak
ive been reading your posts and it seems clearly to me u are a terran player and also a troll
i would have to disagree with 90% of the things u have said. do u even realize who started this thread? slush is a renowned zerg player
While it is true Slush is a well known zerg he is not the OP. I think zergs just need to get more creative with their play. I'll agree Terran can easily make a 'counter-all' unit ball that is very difficult to deal with as Zerg.
|
Zerg cant be more created , they have this old school mechanics whereas toss and terran have new and improved ones.
also zerg have the least choises , u cant be more created as zerg with all this bs than terran.
You have specific openings as zerg and one way only ----> melee
you cant cheese u cant do shit , u always need to epxpand and pump some lings and some stati defences , or u can go 6 pool thats the gameplay as zerg in the beggining in 99.99 of games.
--just because pros dont opt cheese vs zerg because they think is cheat doesnt mean they cant do it and win in the first 5 mins.--- ( idra vs silver is an example of a top player that use cheese and 1 base push vs zerg and win in the first 5 mins )
Also when u watch top players their supply , army count and drones are pretty much smilar , in theory a zerg would have been much much fgaster 200/200 that a terran but this aint happening in real game.
Now since blizzard official said 200/200 army zerg suck vs 200/200 toss or terran u can understand something is very wrong.
there few top zerg players atm , rly few and most of them have claim in their interviews many imes how bs zerg is atm.
Watch hthe newest replays , more and more trran wins easier and easier because they starting to use most of their units.
the epitome imo was qxc vs machine whereas he uses a ghost build and snipes overlords , ultralisks makes infestors usless etc is so fun to watch if ur not playing zerg.
|
Im tempted to just post my idea on the blizz forums just to make myself feel better. No one has any opinion?
|
The hell? This thread is still going? Haven't all the Zerg tears been collected already?
|
On August 13 2010 04:39 silencesc wrote:
The hell? This thread is still going? Haven't all the Zerg tears been collected already?
Same thought here. If all the zergs just play the same amount of time they whine on forums, then the so called "imbalance" would not be there.
To prove my point, just take a look at the top players in korea (No not idra) .
There are zergs all over the place!
|
On August 13 2010 04:50 HTX wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 04:39 silencesc wrote:
The hell? This thread is still going? Haven't all the Zerg tears been collected already? Same thought here. If all the zergs just play the same amount of time they whine on forums, then the so called "imbalance" would not be there. To prove my point, just take a look at the top players in korea (No not idra) . There are zergs all over the place!
All over the place ...
atm in sc2 ranks - which i dont think is 100% corect - but is the best we have there are
1 random
4 toss
3 zerg
2 terran
yea all over the place
also last ive check koreans underpowerfom in sc2 compare to european or u.s counterparts after release and 2 u.s players according to blizz are the top2 playersi n the world with the top 10 getting dominated from westrn players
|
On August 13 2010 04:58 st3roids wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2010 04:50 HTX wrote:On August 13 2010 04:39 silencesc wrote:
The hell? This thread is still going? Haven't all the Zerg tears been collected already? Same thought here. If all the zergs just play the same amount of time they whine on forums, then the so called "imbalance" would not be there. To prove my point, just take a look at the top players in korea (No not idra) . There are zergs all over the place! All over the place ... atm in sc2 ranks - which i dont think is 100% corect - but is the best we have there are 1 random 4 toss 3 zerg 2 terran yea all over the place also last ive check koreans underpowerfom in sc2 compare to european or u.s counterparts after release and 2 u.s players according to blizz are the top2 playersi n the world with the top 10 getting dominated from westrn players
I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to prove...there are more zerg than terran, so terran is imba? could you explain your position please?
|
I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to prove...there are more zerg than terran, so terran is imba? could you explain your position please?
Ur point was that koreans are swarmed with zerged players lats ive check which isnt the case
also my point is that koreans dont do well in sc2 compare to u.s and european players both in tournaments and ladders and shouldnt not been regarded as standard.
I dont know if this cause most koreans stayed with bw or cause sc2 doesnt require insane apm but more strategic thinking and micromanagment than macro but thats how it is atm.
On the other hand both in u.s and europe zerg top players are a handfull and the same happens with showmatches and tournaments , its almost always a terran or a toss player winning but not a zerg one after release.
If u start counting the 2vs2 ands 3vs3 matches zerg almost always not getting used.
If u add the lower leagues as well fyi u barely face zerg players , its always vs terran or toss
|
Last time I checked it looked different. My apologies.
The distribution of the races looks quite balanced in korea so the point stands: no imbalances.
|
The biggest problem are the missile turret. Terran have Viking, Thor and Marine against air. Why do they need a turret that is so f... good. I will never understand why Blizzard buffed the missile turret in the Beta. It is impossible to use mutalisk against a static terran defense and phoenix can not fly over a line of turret. I know void ray are good but terran can kill them with Viking, Thor and Marine. Drop all the other neff and just neff the missile turret.
|
On August 13 2010 05:10 HTX wrote:
Last time I checked it looked different. My apologies.
The distribution of the races looks quite balanced in korea so the point stands: no imbalances.
that is actually bullshit
you must have checked in phase 1, because back then zerg was dominating in korea
freedom and cool switched over to terran and protoss (those were the best 2 korean zergs)
if you noticed that wta takedown tournament you would know zerg cant be dominating, there was 1 zerg in the top 8 and 3 zergs in the top 16 lol
additionally the best zergs are known players like check, idra, junwi while the terrans and protoss you see in tournaments are always random players you never ever heard of
doesnt it look strange to you if you always see new names winning against the likes of check, idra and junwi
you got big balls if the point still stands for you
|
Dear Friends,
I understand how it is easier to complain about alleged imba, rather the trying to just play better. Sure, the game is in an early stage, sure some stuff needs to be sorted out. Here i give you TLO´s most recent Zerg vs Terran ownage. Its a great example on how Zerg has a ton of options to deal with terran.
http://tv.esl.eu/de/vod/22313
gg
|
The threat of Terran reaper forces you down a path. For Protoss it's fast stalker and for Zerg it's defensive FE. By the time you have enough forces to do a counter push, it's useless because the path you were forced down is the same path that lets Terran have a advantage in mid-game. Reaper is so devastating to early pushes by T-0 units (lot, ling, rine).
This is absurd. I also have a grudge with MULE.
Fix MULE and Reaper, and we'll see how the changes work themselves out.
|
On August 13 2010 06:24 oldahe wrote:Dear Friends, I understand how it is easier to complain about alleged imba, rather the trying to just play better. Sure, the game is in an early stage, sure some stuff needs to be sorted out. Here i give you TLO´s most recent Zerg vs Terran ownage. Its a great example on how Zerg has a ton of options to deal with terran. http://tv.esl.eu/de/vod/22313gg
hi troll pls teach us tlo plays 90% terran , next
cool swap from zerg ? Oo , this is rly ... whatever no point arguing
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
