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First of all, sorry, my post is shifting a bit out of topic, but the whole thread took this shift so I'm going with it. It's just my opinion on all these upcoming "I want to become a progamer" threads and not explicitly pointing at this thread as it's not the original topic.
I can understand the ambitious point of view to become a progamer. If there is a competition, the desire to improve and get better than your opponent is natural and a good thing - SC2 is very similar to sports 
But unlike "usual" sports you have to sacrifice a lot considering our social norms and society's general perspective on esports to play a video game in a competitive scene - and the competitive SC2 scene is getting HUGE, you will have to put tremendous amounts of effort into it to get one of the best in your region. I don't want to say that being a nerd and doing only one thing for a notable period of time in your life is bad, actually I think being passionate about something is the best thing you can experience in your life. You can collect the weirdest amount of porcelain figurines, as long as you are passionate about that it's a really cool thing and I would enjoy listening to you talk about it and your whole porcelain figurine background. I mean sure you could go to a gym at your spare time or do something else which gives you more "payoff" (from other people's point of view), but if that doesn't make you feel satisfied there is no use for it and in the end there is no payoff at all.
So what I want to say is that you should always be aware of your life situation. If you can spend a lot of time to play SC2 and become very good at it, it's a great, great thing. If you love doing that, do it. But always consider the sacrifices (whatever you do in your freetime, if it's going to the gym, partying, sleeping 14 hours a day or posting ridiculously long posts on the internetz there are always sacrifices). It's very easy to spend plenty of your best years with playing a video game, but you should have goals, deadlines and some kind of backup plan. And especially with a risky plan like becoming a Starcraft 2 progamer you shouldn't force yourself into doing it, just do what feels right for you. Not what gives you fun or makes you feel happy for a short amount of time, but what feels right if you look at your own life without lying to yourself. And don't put everyone who wants to give you advice down as narrow-minded and full of prejudices. But at the same time you should be able to stand for everything you do and why you do it and mustn't let other people force you into stuff they want you to do just because of social norms or financial reasons.
As other people already pointed out - there are different pros and cons for becoming a progamer. If you think the pros will still outweigh the cons in 5 years from now, and you think you are ambitious enough to have a good chance of getting as good as the current progamers, then ffs DO IT! But don't lie to yourself when you have to answer these questions and make sure you will never regret what you did.
edit: And well, what I wanted to point out under these circumstances is, that it doesn't matter at all if you play 8, 10 or 12 hours a day. It's about being ambitious and having goals to get better. There is no "If I play 12 hours a day, I will be a pro in 6 months. If I play 10 hours a day, I can't do it.". If you want to be really good, learn and study the game as Gretorp pointed out in one of his casts, get your mechanics really precise and good. Don't just ladder 12 hours a day.
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On July 25 2010 18:09 fyyer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2010 17:18 CharlieMurphy wrote:On July 25 2010 15:21 -ReMeDy- wrote:On July 25 2010 15:15 balistix wrote:
i remember day9 saying how when he practiced for some tournament in 2007, he woke up at 10 am and played until 3 am everyday and took breaks for lunch and dinner and stuff, and that's what i plan to do more or less And that too is another point of contention because commentating takes a ton of time too, so by Day[9] doing his daily's, is he basically consenting he will never successfully compete with the pro gamers at the top levels? I don't see how that guy would have time for both practice and daily's. Plus, he's really involved in the community, so that's additional practice time subtracted. why spend the long hours practicing so hard to be the best in a difficult game when you can make the easy money just doing videos and commentary? haha, I think this sums it up pretty well. "what is the wealth potential" is the real reason. If people discover you spend your free time doing something that doesn't make alot of money it will be frowned upon. But if it's something that has the potential to make you alot of money it will be accepted. If SC2 sponsored tournaments offered millions of dollars people would quickly start thinking of pro gaming (and therefore gaming) as legit. I don't think this is necessarily a good thing if money is dictating what is good and what isn't. I think a good way to tell if something or someone is legit is by removing the money factor. If someone loves doing something they will do it for free (like those who play video games hardcore), whether or not people believe it's legit. People frown on McDonalds workers too, since you don't make alot of money working there, but not when they are ordering a burger and large fries. Just like many of you frown upon pro gamers, but not when you're watching Jaedong vs Flash.
People still frown on people trying to go pro in basketball or football, etc. The chances of that happening are slim, it's highly competitive with limited opportunities, and doesn't give you much skills beyond it. Most pro ballers use their money after retirement to invest in business or use their celebrity to get work (usually as within the same industry as a commentator, analyst, or coach). And that's for the high skilled players, I have no idea what the benchwarmers do after their careers are over.
The reality of it is, a lot of things that are fun just isn't going to give you much financial stability. That's why they stay only as hobbies for the vast majority of people. But don't mind the money loving workaholics though, they think the only things worth doing has to generate money. If you're financially stable, play 12 hours if you want. 
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I plan on playing 4-8 hours a day, and the rest of my day to do work making video games.
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I don't want to be a progamer or something, so I don't have the motivation or the nerves for those 10hours a day.
For me, it's maximum 2-3 hours of solo games. More than this, it's just too exhausting and not fun.
I think i'm gonna play this game for a long time, so i'm going to improve little by little.
Anyway, I can spend more time in sc2: watching a tourney, obsing games, looking at TL.
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If you want to be a progamer you need to practice how you want to play. Messing around with SC 3-4 hours a day (not including weekends) isn't going to cut it if you want to be the best. My school's Ultimate Frisby team practices 4 hours a day+individual time and they are just doing it so they can keep up with the other teams. They don't plan on winning tournaments or blowing anyone out of the water.
Top Ultimate Frisby teams? It's their life. After class until after dinner they practice, 6+ hours a day, 8 hour weekend practices plus individual time put in. They also diet, get the best equipment, basically they live for their game.
How much time do you think the local douchebag who plays his guitar on the quad practices? Couple hours a day? I would imagine the motivation for these people is picking up girls or showing the whole campus just how untalented they are with a guitar. Or maybe they really do think they're version of whatever Ben Fold's song is really tight.
Now how about a violinist for the NY phil harmonic? Professional musicians spend most of their day, every day practicing. Music allows for no errors. Right note, right pitch, right time, etc. You can not bat a .3 and be considered "good". You have to be perfect every time. If you want to be a pro, you should probably start as a child, since you're going to need the time to practice.
The amount of time you need to practice SC2 to be "really successful" is dependent on the amount of time other people are willing to spend on it. You could spend 3-4 hours a day playing and be the best player in your high school/campus.
But if you want to make money? Then you're talking about a job. If you want to be really successful you have to take it seriously. We're talking training schedules, giving up a helluvalot.
I kinda shudder whenever I hear something like "I want to be the best sc2 player ever but I still want a girlfriend, time to work out, hang out with friends, get A's in all my classes and cure cancer."
Unless you're the second coming of Flash (without having to spend all time he did practicing) maybe you could have it all. But look at the average Korean Progamer to see the kinds of stuff they give up, which mostly consists of girls/friends because they have to spend all day practicing.
Maybe you could be the best in the U.S. with 3-4 hours of training if you're already super awesome, but that's because most US players don't want to be super successful at SC2 because they'd rather spend their time with GF's, friends, and living a normal life.
I'm not saying it's impossible to be a progamer with a relatively normal life. White Ra does it. But let us remember that White Ra has been playing at top levels for years and years, is a helluvalot older than most of us, so I would imagine he's already been through the necessary hoops.
So, if you're already a progamer with your life set up and 2 jobs, 8 hours is about the minimum.
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I spend more time reading and watching Starcraft 2 rather than playing it. It's odd really. I play an hour or 2 a day, depending on how the games go.
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In phase 2 I played between 30 minutes and 2 hours a day. It was slow to get my skills back but I was still improving every day - u just need to be awake, aware, and thinking when you play.
And I like to quote that idra thinks it takes 30 minutes a day to be a top NA player =)
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i try to play at least 7 hours a day but i only manage to play that much maybe once or twice a week, my average would be around 3-5 hours a day
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I think the optimal amount amount of playing hours of sc2 (not counting replays), in which our ownly goal is getting as good as possible in like the next 6 months or so, is much higher than ppl expect. Sure the difference isn't very big if you play 7 hours/day instead of 6 hours day, but the diff. is still there. And you do get some extra training. IMO its therefore close to 12-14 hours/day. Sure its boring as h..., and a poor life, but this is IMO how you become the best player.
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Isn't it personal? I can play 5-6 hours straight one day but the next day I will probably not feel like playing. Also, if I include time spent on forums, irc chat and watching vod/replays, the time spent on SC2 is much, much higher. I think the time you can put in without making you ill or not taking care of other things in life is what you should(have?) to put in to be amongst the best.
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Why waste your life playing a game 8 hours a day. Sure its a good game, but there are much better things to do in life. You need to go out, socialize, get exercize, meet women. If you start playing games more than 4 hours a day your life will fall apart. Look how awful most of the sc2 pros look, its because they never go outside and get sun or exercize or socialize. Humans are not meant to live like that. Once in awhile it is ok to play all day long but dont make a habit of it. Get a job, a girlfriend, and a gym membership and you will be much happier in life.
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do you really need others to tell you how many hours is efficient for you?
i can answer it for you, its the time you can spend with this game a day without loosing focus
like others have said: quality time!
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Ugh, this thread is so depressing. I've played other games competitively, and sometimes I flirt with trying to be competitive at SC2, but this is the only game I've ever played where you have to become a nolifer to be pro.
You don't get much benefit from playing a shooter game for 12 hours/day. Many pro teams play 4-8 hours a day, which is pretty reasonable.
This is a huge barrier to SC2 ever becoming a major esport. Sitting at a computer gaming 12-16 hours a day is not and will never be acceptable in American culture.
Also, this amount of devotion actually reduces the amount of competition on games. There are many people who may be naturally talented who are excluded because they have things in their life that prevent them from playing that much.
The Korean-style 14-hour practices are not good for competitive videogaming.
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Sorry for double post, I have to clear up this HUGE misconception that people keep posting. People keep posting that gaming for 12 hours a day is the same thing as playing sports for 12 hours a day.
1) Sports get you in shape. They are good for your body. Sitting at a computer that long is NOT good for your body. Even if you exercise in your downtime, that much sitting will take a toll on you.
2) Sports are challenging to practice that long. Practicing a sport 12-16 hours a day takes HUGE amounts of dedication and you have to battle your body physically tempting you to stop. Any lazy person can play a computer game for 12-16 hours. That doesn't mean they'll be good, but it's not an accomplishment to play a game for 12-16 hours whereas playing a sport that long is a challenging feat.
3) Sports skills carry over into other aspects of your life. For example, being in shape. This will help you throughout your life. Game-specific skills like being able to micro marauders perfectly will not.
Please stop making comparisons between playing sports and video games for this long.
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Let's start the other way around, by defining the time you need for essential things first:
8h sleep - that varies with person, some people can need 9 others 7, so lets use the average.
Lunch and dinner:
Making meals: 30min x 2
Eating and cleaning: 35min x 2
Small meals: 10min x 2
2h 30m
Shower and dressing - 30m
Total: 11h
This leaves you with
13h
If you're planning to cut every social aspect then just add in a few breaks and you're done, otherwise subtract a bit more.
Now i'd say for each hour of practice at least 10-15min of theory, so if playing 9h, 1h30min-2h15min of theory. This value is based on experience (i used to play a lot, study a lot, and play a lot o fpiano), and how much theory one can think of and apply in games. Too much theory to apply can be confusing and brings too many different variables, while too little will slow your improvment significantly. Instead of min of theory per hour of practice, practicing specific concepts can also be good, as long as you keep bringing new concepts to practice everyday, and always having something specific to improve.
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any computer game requires 12+ hours to be at pro level. that really sucks.
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On July 26 2010 05:59 iEchoic wrote:
Sorry for double post, I have to clear up this HUGE misconception that people keep posting. People keep posting that gaming for 12 hours a day is the same thing as playing sports for 12 hours a day.
1) Sports get you in shape. They are good for your body. Sitting at a computer that long is NOT good for your body. Even if you exercise in your downtime, that much sitting will take a toll on you.
2) Sports are challenging to practice that long. Practicing a sport 12-16 hours a day takes HUGE amounts of dedication and you have to battle your body physically tempting you to stop. Any lazy person can play a computer game for 12-16 hours. That doesn't mean they'll be good, but it's not an accomplishment to play a game for 12-16 hours whereas playing a sport that long is a challenging feat.
3) Sports skills carry over into other aspects of your life. For example, being in shape. This will help you throughout your life. Game-specific skills like being able to micro marauders perfectly will not.
Please stop making comparisons between playing sports and video games for this long.
Good post. Sports are also good for you for a multitude of reasons that video games are not. Sports engage more than just your mind and your fingers, you are actually moving your body inside of the real world. When you are playing games you are completely sedentary and in a fantasy world. This is bad for your physical AND mental health. Sports also develop you socially and make you more confident while games make you anti social with self esteem issues if you do nothing but play games.
That being said, sports should not be played 8 hours a day either. Most pro atheletes do not practice this much, they tend to do 2 hours broken into two session, and some hardcore atheletes will do a 3rd 2 hour session. That is the norm for a PRO athelete. The reason gamers can play for 12 hours a day is because gaming is a form of Sloth (lazyness and escapism).
Now I'm not saying gaming is entirely bad for you, because it is fun. When something is fun, thats a good reason to do it but you can easily get carried away with it. By overdoing gaming you will pay the price later with health problems, poor looks, bad social skills, and virtually no life. I reccommend balancing your life with gaming. Make sure that you are getting great exercise and nutrition, have a social life, an income or education, and are gaming as your free-time hobby. For most people that would mean gaming no more than 4-6 hours per day MAX.
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On July 26 2010 05:52 iEchoic wrote:
This is a huge barrier to SC2 ever becoming a major esport. Sitting at a computer gaming 12-16 hours a day is not and will never be acceptable in American culture.
The Korean-style 14-hour practices are not good for competitive videogaming.
acceptable.. who cares? and it will almost defiantly become acceptable in American culture at the rate it is growing now.
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On July 26 2010 06:11 Sabresandiego wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2010 05:59 iEchoic wrote:
Sorry for double post, I have to clear up this HUGE misconception that people keep posting. People keep posting that gaming for 12 hours a day is the same thing as playing sports for 12 hours a day.
1) Sports get you in shape. They are good for your body. Sitting at a computer that long is NOT good for your body. Even if you exercise in your downtime, that much sitting will take a toll on you.
2) Sports are challenging to practice that long. Practicing a sport 12-16 hours a day takes HUGE amounts of dedication and you have to battle your body physically tempting you to stop. Any lazy person can play a computer game for 12-16 hours. That doesn't mean they'll be good, but it's not an accomplishment to play a game for 12-16 hours whereas playing a sport that long is a challenging feat.
3) Sports skills carry over into other aspects of your life. For example, being in shape. This will help you throughout your life. Game-specific skills like being able to micro marauders perfectly will not.
Please stop making comparisons between playing sports and video games for this long. That being said, sports should not be played 8 hours a day either. Most pro atheletes do not practice this much, they tend to do 2 hours broken into two session, and some hardcore atheletes will do a 3rd 2 hour session. That is the norm for a PRO athelete. The reason gamers can play for 12 hours a day is because gaming is a form of Sloth (lazyness and escapism).
Agreed, and this brings up another good point - most good competitive things have built-in limits on how much time you can spend practicing them. It is actually very bad for the competitive scene that talented players can be beaten by less-talented players simply because SC2 can be practiced 14 hours a day.
Most sports you actually can not practice that long. For example, you can't just head to the gym and pump iron for 14 hours a day. Your body won't allow it.
In most videogames, it's actually frowned upon to play as much as some of these SC2 pros do. Even with competitive games like Halo, if you go on the MLG forums and post that you play 14 hours a day, EVERYONE in there is going to call you a geek, and you're going to get a reputation for simply being good because you play more than everyone else.
As much as the Halo community sucks, this is actually good in a way. It keeps talent the supreme skill instead of playtime. It allows talented individuals the opportunity to succeed at something, and prevents everyone from forfeiting their social life to compete.
SC2 doesn't have any playtime-restricting mechanism. And that is very bad for the future of the game.
On July 26 2010 06:12 TheGeo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2010 05:52 iEchoic wrote:
This is a huge barrier to SC2 ever becoming a major esport. Sitting at a computer gaming 12-16 hours a day is not and will never be acceptable in American culture.
The Korean-style 14-hour practices are not good for competitive videogaming. acceptable.. who cares? and it will almost defiantly become acceptable in American culture at the rate it is growing now.
It won't be acceptable because it's bad for your body. This isn't a subjective thing, the perception is rooted in objective reality, and it won't be changing.
Girls aren't going to like scrawny boy-men regardless of how much fun gaming is.
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Echoic, you have a couple problems there with your argument.
1) Sports/physical activity can also harm you if you do it too much. Just as much, if not more so, than sitting down for 12 hours. This point isn't very valid because nobody does sports 12 straight hours a day because the human body isn't capable of that kind of activity.
There is also evidence that games like chess/go help with mental diseases like Alzheimer and dementia.
Games are just as important for health as sports are. They provide exercise for our brains and bodies, which is absolutely necessary.
2) Playing a sport for a full 12-16 hours is more than an accomplishment, it's a feat worthy of the Guiness book of world records. I would argue that playing chess/go at a high level for 16 hours is just as consuming as playing sports for a long time. We already know that it's physically possible to sit longer than it is to exercise, so I'm not sure what the major point here is. There is just as much struggle to become good at internationally recognized games (Poker, chess, go) as there is in sports.
I could even make the argument that the competition for chess players is rougher than it is for most people who play sports. Not everyone is born with the capacity to be great at a specific sporting position. But you can be a quadriplegic and be a chess master. Your sphere of competition is much, much wider.
You might argue that since a cripple can play chess, that means chess is "easier" to play or practice. Do you want to make that argument?
3) Sports skills carry over into real life just as much as skills gained from learning chess, go, and other mentally intensive games.
Your arguments are pretty biased and that makes them pretty ineffective. I don't disagree with the benefits/good things to come from sports, but please, stop making comparisons between playing sports and video games.
Echo, to make the argument that SC2 won't make the American scene because it's "bad for your body" is a horrible argument. McDonald's, Cigarettes, Coffee, Donuts, removing gym class from schools, etc. etc. "Being bad for your health" is not a concern for most of America. America loves things that is bad for them physically.
Let's look at Korean pro gamers who spend 10 mandatory hours playing a day then another what, 4+ on their own? They seem pretty healthy to me.
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EPT
