To be a top of the line SC2 Pro Gamer, I'm on the fence what number is the "sweet spot" for me, or people in general. I'm getting varying different hours or hour assessments from different players:
Idra says in his Artosis interview he practices 12 hours a day; however, even he admits the Koreans take it to the extreme.
I'd like to strike a balance between playing long hours, but still finding time for the gym, getting out of the house, etc. I'm currently unemployed, not married (no gf either), but I am a college student with an upcoming 12 credit hour schedule approaching in late August. I'm a 24 year old Junior and yea I live with my parents (*cue laughter*), but that saves me money and more time for SC2, so I could care less .
How many hours/day is best for a person to be VERY successful at SC2? Do you think I could possibly get away with being top 20 playing 5/hours a day if I just concentrate on US servers only?
It all depends what they do with their time. If they are constantly laddering, watching replays and striving to be the best all the time I would say 5-6 hours a day everyday would be more than enough.
I would say quality over quantity. Use your time well, actually learn something from your games rather than just grind through them and I guess 5h a days is plenty. You won't be A+ Korean but you will manage
Get a gf, really.. Its good both for life and SC2.. As for your question, its impossible to say. Its very individual. Like play 5-6 hours a day and you will be fine.
But yeah like others have been saying, its all based on the player. Alot of the time i can play all night (anywhere from 6pm-5am, or whenever i cant see straight). The trick for myself is when i notice myself getting sloppy due to overplaying/aggravation then i take a break, and put my time somewhere else so i can come back ready to put more quality games instead of just pissing away time.
I dont know about the hours, but i would try and getting into a team or in better contact with other high level/pro level players so u can train with them. That way u can be ahead of the meta game instead of following it.
On July 25 2010 15:05 Piski wrote: I would say quality over quantity. Use your time well, actually learn something from your games rather than just grind through them and I guess 5h a days is plenty. You won't be A+ Korean but you will manage
Of course not. You'll always be better if you practice more.
You think you can get as much done in 40 hours as a synthetic organic chemist versus someone who works 80? Bullshit. Don’t believe me? I’ll reassign my graduate student Suk Deep Lee to your molecule. He’s going to work on an alternative route. Don’t talk to me until you’ve made the molecule. Let’s see who makes the most progress, shall we?
Exactly. You’ll fall in line like everyone else.
That's why korean pros are better than foreigners, they just practice so much more.
I think Nony said in a post somewhere 7-8 is best, with maybe another 1-2 dedicated to studying vods or reps and practicing builds in single player, but I can't find it. He said something along the lines of to never sacrifice sleep or exercise for sc to avoid burnout and to keep your mental and physical mindset stable. If someone can like the post plz do, its really great advice.
i remember day9 saying how when he practiced for some tournament in 2007, he woke up at 10 am and played until 3 am everyday and took breaks for lunch and dinner and stuff, and that's what i plan to do more or less
On July 25 2010 15:05 Piski wrote: I would say quality over quantity. Use your time well, actually learn something from your games rather than just grind through them and I guess 5h a days is plenty. You won't be A+ Korean but you will manage
Of course not. You'll always be better if you practice more.
You think you can get as much done in 40 hours as a synthetic organic chemist versus someone who works 80? Bullshit. Don’t believe me? I’ll reassign my graduate student Suk Deep Lee to your molecule. He’s going to work on an alternative route. Don’t talk to me until you’ve made the molecule. Let’s see who makes the most progress, shall we?
Exactly. You’ll fall in line like everyone else.
That's why korean pros are better than foreigners, they just practice so much more.
You won't "always" be better if you practice more. If he's not trying to become the next Flash, the best advice is to focus on getting the most quality out of whatever time he can put into SC2. Korean pros aren't better than foreigners just because they practice more, it's because the quality AND quantity of their practice are higher. 12 hours of shitty practice would probably be a wash with 5 hours of focused, dedicated practice.
edit: poor quoting, just wanted to agree with you but emphasize that the quality of the quantity matters
On July 25 2010 15:06 Everlong wrote: Get a gf, really.. Its good both for life and SC2.. As for your question, its impossible to say. Its very individual. Like play 5-6 hours a day and you will be fine.
dunno man. i have a gf and i can tell you its definately not good for SC2. even 4 hours a day would be way out of the question for me
On July 25 2010 15:15 balistix wrote: i remember day9 saying how when he practiced for some tournament in 2007, he woke up at 10 am and played until 3 am everyday and took breaks for lunch and dinner and stuff, and that's what i plan to do more or less
And that too is another point of contention because commentating takes a ton of time too, so by Day[9] doing his daily's, is he basically consenting he will never successfully compete with the pro gamers at the top levels? I don't see how that guy would have time for both practice and daily's. Plus, he's really involved in the community, so that's additional practice time subtracted.
This completely depends on natural talent and physical ability. Also depending on what you do during those hours is very important. Are you experimenting? Laddering? Playing with a team member? Different stuff gets different results but playing a lot is definitely needed.
On July 25 2010 15:15 balistix wrote: i remember day9 saying how when he practiced for some tournament in 2007, he woke up at 10 am and played until 3 am everyday and took breaks for lunch and dinner and stuff, and that's what i plan to do more or less
And that too is another point of contention because commentating takes a ton of time too, so by Day[9] doing his daily's, is he basically consenting he will never successfully compete with the pro gamers at the top levels? I don't see how that guy would have time for both practice and daily's.
he stated in his interview with esports france that he has time for about 50 ladder games a week or so. he also said something along the lines of he would like to compete and be a top player but time doenst allow for that at the moment
On July 25 2010 15:06 Everlong wrote: Get a gf, really.. Its good both for life and SC2.. As for your question, its impossible to say. Its very individual. Like play 5-6 hours a day and you will be fine.
Yeah get a gf its good for both life and sc2, though on a serious note, it mainly depend on your comprehension level. If you comprehension skill is low then practice till you faint, if you can comprehen easily then a few hours is fine.
Straight up ladder grinding gets very very tedious. However, theory crafting, watching replays, and my daily dose of day9 make it okay to be in SC2 mode for 6+
hey i play about 12-14 hrs a day wasnt really a big BW player started starcraft 2 about a week before phase 1 ended and well im higher tier silver league
If you try to match idra's practice schedule you can pretty much kiss that degree goodbye. Just play when you have free time unless you are seriously considering taking up pro gaming or it's not worth it. Even then haha.
You can't just decide to practice so many hours a day. You'll probably get sick of the game if you do. Play as long as you are having fun. If that means 30 minutes, then woohoo. If it means 10 hours, then woohoo. Trying to schedule yourself into playing a game is probably not the best way to do it. If in a bit you want to take your gameplay to the next level, you can start planning time for SC2, but I'd say just enjoy the game for a bit before you try to be extremely serious about it.
On July 25 2010 15:15 balistix wrote: i remember day9 saying how when he practiced for some tournament in 2007, he woke up at 10 am and played until 3 am everyday and took breaks for lunch and dinner and stuff, and that's what i plan to do more or less
And that too is another point of contention because commentating takes a ton of time too, so by Day[9] doing his daily's, is he basically consenting he will never successfully compete with the pro gamers at the top levels? I don't see how that guy would have time for both practice and daily's.
he stated in his interview with esports france that he has time for about 50 ladder games a week or so. he also said something along the lines of he would like to compete and be a top player but time doenst allow for that at the moment
As i said, it was back in 2007 when he didn't even do dailies yet and wasn't involved in sc community so much so that's why he had all that free time, and he won the tournament that year so it did pay off
Not to be a jerk or anything. But to be a VERY top player in anything, you don't need to ask about things like this. Every single top player has excelled on their own. I will even wager money on this.
It all is dependant on knowledge on starcraft, that is the #1 most important thing study and learn how to play the game is far more important than practicing others builds because they work, cus if you dont understand WHY you are doing them then you are hurting yourself. Other then that actual games doesnt matter too much.For example: I didnt start playing SC2 til wed. before beta closed monday and in 6days never playing the game before I finished #2 in my Diamond division with about 460pts but my friend who let me play on his computer had been playing the beta for a solid 3-4 months had was still in gold division.
My advantage was I played SC1 at a high level so I understand the concepts behind how the game works, and know how to analyze and improve and learn from my mistakes and marginal decisions. I also know how to realitively quickly recognize where my mistakes we're even without watching replays which allows me to improve quickly, where he didnt though he was very good at other strategy games he still is learning general SC knowledge. Work on improve those skills and you will improve faster than anything.
I cannot imagine after playing 12 hours in 1 day that there isn't deterioration in one's playing quality...I suppose you can work up the stamina though, but it just seems like an enormous amount of time to dedicate in one sitting.
I play 3-4 hours a day when I can (have to work on tuesday, will not be able to concentrate at all, eek).
Edit: Oh, addressing the most efficient amount of play time, just do SC2 and SC2 related activities in your free time, playing, working on mouse control, thinking about builds...be sure to micro enough time for college too, you always want to have a backup plan in case going pro in SC2 doesn't pan out
On July 25 2010 15:25 theRiverX wrote: Personally I can only handle 2-3 hours a day maximum. I can't handle the mental and physical stress. eek..
Same, haven't played SC in many years and SC2 is forcing me to take a break after 1-2hs, when i can play an FPS or RPG for like 10hs... Probably will be able to do longer periods after some time.
Man, there are so many hypes on becoming SC2 pro-gamers lately on TL.net forum. When I posted this kind of topic on my blog, some would flame me and say to me to get a job (I just graduated, and I'm 22 years old), and you can't make a living out of it. That is true; pro-gaming career is pretty short compared to other professional careers like engineering, doctor, lawyer, etc. But, if I have a chance and support from my family to spend a part of my life, say 4 to 5 years maybe, to have a SC2 pro-gaming career, I would totally do it. No kidding.
On July 25 2010 15:30 Baarn wrote: If you try to match idra's practice schedule you can pretty much kiss that degree goodbye. Just play when you have free time unless you are seriously considering taking up pro gaming or it's not worth it. Even then haha.
I'm not entirely sure what 12 credit hours translates to for my university but I could easily manage 12hr/day averages while juggling a "full" load of schoolwork (meaning what I was expected to do) per week, including during the year I spent writing an undergrad thesis.
Im kinda like you atm. I'm 22 junior (almost senior) taking 12 quarter units (18 semester equivalent) and can't work where I live atm really. I don't have a gym and since its rural there isn't one but I can do some BW workouts (but I'd rather do 5x5). I don't have a girl either but my life has been crazy.
For starcraft I never really played RTS multi until I got a beta key and played about 1 month of beta. In that one month I played about 200games or so, got 300 ELO Diamond (but rating kept resetting so I spent a lot of time grinding back up). Basically thats the top 1000 US players I think. My best friend will be playing so we will be competitive and practice a lot (I hope).
I think I can def manage school, gym, SC, a girl and a part time job (done it before). But if I had to drop one of those things it would be SC first. You just have to have good time management skills.
Id say 8 hours a day, this is what im going for to hit top Scandinavian LVL atleast. now ofc this also means ul have a few hours to spare, this u can use by reading stuff about the game, or watching replays of ur biggest competators to find small things u can read in their gameplay.
Example: When hes most likeley to take a expo with this build, how he usually plays this MU and so on.
My Theory on how to become a progamer is, u have one Starting build order. that CAN transition into Evrything in the later stages depending on how u scout and so on. what iv done is Write down my first initial build against each MU, and then iv written on the side where and when its best to transition to something that can easly counter what uv allready scouted on ur opponent. and written that order down aswell, Now ofc the later the game goes on u have to pick out some things like DT rush or whatever, but at some point u can transition into evrything aswell.
This is what i did in beta, And i Easly hit top 10 within the first week of beta in norway and going top 200 in EU on Ladder rankings. obviously i havent stuck to it completely and just not given a shit about it yet, but iv prepared myself for release and i really think ill be able to hit the top with this.
((((((((I dont play Terran. xD just had to be said.))))))))))))
10hours of straight up ladder will be the same of 5hours of ladder, you'll only get so far. koreans are very good because they practice vs a # of good players.
12 credit hour semesters aren't bad at all even with hard classes. You can skate by easily and get B's C's, but for the love of god just try and get A's. There is no reason not to, unless you consider starcraft more important than your work.
I find it horrifying that people are actually trying to be pro gamers. Such a terrible idea! Get a degree in computer science or engineering and you will have a better income for the rest of your life with less work. Being a progamer takes the fun out of the game because you are playing because you have too. If you get burned out it must be like working 12 hours a day at any other shitty job. Let's assess the gains and risk +'s -small chance of earning 6 figure / famous among nerds -enjoy what you play (best case)
-'s - zero social life -most likely will be making less than minimum wage -not a good future for after sc2 - Most likely will postpone getting laid by years -Stressful/ not a steady income - Good chance of not liking the game you play - Cannot go on extended breaks - Competing with other people who are fanatical to get that small sum of money -list goes on and one but i don't wanna stretch this out TL;DR: Being a pro gamer is one of the worst 'careers' imaginable
Whoever said a GF is good for SC2 is full of shit. My gf hated SC2 and used to bitch whenever I played it; she hates video games in general, but thinks SC of all video games is THE nerdiest. She doesn't mind MMO's or FPS too much, but thinks SC is absolutely terrible and just hated it when I play
3-4 hours efficiently. Analysis of replays, playing with people with greater skill and knowledge of the game (a summary of how the game went after you guys play). Playing with solid goals set in mind.
On July 25 2010 15:05 Piski wrote: I would say quality over quantity. Use your time well, actually learn something from your games rather than just grind through them and I guess 5h a days is plenty. You won't be A+ Korean but you will manage
Of course not. You'll always be better if you practice more.
You think you can get as much done in 40 hours as a synthetic organic chemist versus someone who works 80? Bullshit. Don’t believe me? I’ll reassign my graduate student Suk Deep Lee to your molecule. He’s going to work on an alternative route. Don’t talk to me until you’ve made the molecule. Let’s see who makes the most progress, shall we?
Exactly. You’ll fall in line like everyone else.
That's why korean pros are better than foreigners, they just practice so much more.
I completely agree I believe that hard work always pays off. I just got from his post that he isn't intending to compete with the koreans but just wanted to be very good. That's why I said that playing 5h every day will be enough, comparing that say for White-Ra who says he can play over 8h one day and not play the next two days.
About 3-4 hours of playing per day is the most efficient for me. after that I just seem to lose interest and thus don't put in the effort and don't have fun. I've never understood why or how koreans play for so long and seem to get something out of the extra time. From a bio/psych stand point I think there's on average only so much a human being can handle and process in a given amount of time, with exceptions like Flash etc :D Though this might get into the burnout process, where you force a lot of processes in a far too short amount of time along with possible neglect of other basic, natural importances. hope that helps in some way hehe
On July 25 2010 16:29 Everlong wrote: Its good to have a gf, period. If she loves you, she wont let you play like 7-8 hours a day and she will keep you in real life - good thing.
why is that good? nothing wrong with doing what you like to do. if someone stops you from doing what you love to do I think they're not good.
On July 25 2010 16:29 Everlong wrote: Its good to have a gf, period. If she loves you, she wont let you play like 7-8 hours a day and she will keep you in real life - good thing.
why is that good? nothing wrong with doing what you like to do. if someone stops you from doing what you love to do I think they're not good.
I love smoking, eating fast food, and drinking beer. My gf cooks for me and helps me to relax so i can quit smoking so i think shes good.
I believe that the most important thing is to make sure that your practice time counts. You should seek out the hardest possible opponent, and review your replays to find out your mistakes. If you play at least 10 games every day and make sure that they count you should improve pretty fast ;P
On July 25 2010 15:30 Baarn wrote: If you try to match idra's practice schedule you can pretty much kiss that degree goodbye. Just play when you have free time unless you are seriously considering taking up pro gaming or it's not worth it. Even then haha.
I'm not entirely sure what 12 credit hours translates to for my university but I could easily manage 12hr/day averages while juggling a "full" load of schoolwork (meaning what I was expected to do) per week, including during the year I spent writing an undergrad thesis.
12+ hours on average and practicing for a tournament is gonna be even more time away from school priorities. Hey if you can do it then by all means.
Its not good to play video game for 7-8 hours a day. If someone helps you with this, its very good. So thinking like "if someone stops you from doing what you love to do I think they're not good." will actually take you to hell..
On July 25 2010 16:29 Everlong wrote: Its good to have a gf, period. If she loves you, she wont let you play like 7-8 hours a day and she will keep you in real life - good thing.
why is that good? nothing wrong with doing what you like to do. if someone stops you from doing what you love to do I think they're not good.
I love smoking, eating fast food, and drinking beer. My gf cooks for me and helps me to relax so i can quit smoking so i think shes good.
your gf helping you stop things you feel guilty of, if someone wants to play a game for 8 hours a day and someone else steps in, there's a problem.
On July 25 2010 16:29 Everlong wrote: Its good to have a gf, period. If she loves you, she wont let you play like 7-8 hours a day and she will keep you in real life - good thing.
why is that good? nothing wrong with doing what you like to do. if someone stops you from doing what you love to do I think they're not good.
I love smoking, eating fast food, and drinking beer. My gf cooks for me and helps me to relax so i can quit smoking so i think shes good.
your gf helping you stop things you feel guilty of, if someone wants to play a game for 8 hours a day and someone else steps in, there's a problem.
I think that if someone wants to play a game for 8 hours a day, there's a problem.
On July 25 2010 16:29 Everlong wrote: Its good to have a gf, period. If she loves you, she wont let you play like 7-8 hours a day and she will keep you in real life - good thing.
why is that good? nothing wrong with doing what you like to do. if someone stops you from doing what you love to do I think they're not good.
I love smoking, eating fast food, and drinking beer. My gf cooks for me and helps me to relax so i can quit smoking so i think shes good.
your gf helping you stop things you feel guilty of, if someone wants to play a game for 8 hours a day and someone else steps in, there's a problem.
With that person not spending time with you after work/school or your priorities?
Look, everyone. I know that some of us, including me, would want to become a SC2 pro-gamer because we LOVE to play SC2. But realistically, do you really think that you will keep your SC2 pro-gaming career until you are like 65 years old? Hell no. But if you guys meant that you would like to spend 5 to 10 years of life dedicated to having a SC2 pro-gaming career, then that's a little better, but like many others, I wouldn't say it's a good career. If you want that kind of experience in your life, go for it. But when you finish your godly experience as a SC2 pro-gamer, it will be incredibly hard for you to get back to today's social conformity of getting a full-time job in typical professional careers such as engineering, medicine, law, etc.
It's up to you. Don't make your parents get disappointed in you because you spent a third of your life playing video games all day and night.
On July 25 2010 16:29 Everlong wrote: Its good to have a gf, period. If she loves you, she wont let you play like 7-8 hours a day and she will keep you in real life - good thing.
why is that good? nothing wrong with doing what you like to do. if someone stops you from doing what you love to do I think they're not good.
I love smoking, eating fast food, and drinking beer. My gf cooks for me and helps me to relax so i can quit smoking so i think shes good.
your gf helping you stop things you feel guilty of, if someone wants to play a game for 8 hours a day and someone else steps in, there's a problem.
I think that if someone wants to play a game for 8 hours a day, there's a problem.
yeah, its society that doesnt look at gaming as legitimate. that is the problem. partying, and sitting on the couch watching tv is much more legit past time to society and thats sad.
On July 25 2010 16:29 Everlong wrote: Its good to have a gf, period. If she loves you, she wont let you play like 7-8 hours a day and she will keep you in real life - good thing.
why is that good? nothing wrong with doing what you like to do. if someone stops you from doing what you love to do I think they're not good.
I love smoking, eating fast food, and drinking beer. My gf cooks for me and helps me to relax so i can quit smoking so i think shes good.
your gf helping you stop things you feel guilty of, if someone wants to play a game for 8 hours a day and someone else steps in, there's a problem.
I think that if someone wants to play a game for 8 hours a day, there's a problem.
yeah, its society that doesnt look at gaming as legitimate. that is the problem. partying, and sitting on the couch watching tv is much more legit past time to society and thats sad.
That is why Koreans are so good actually. You are right on this one.
On July 25 2010 15:15 balistix wrote: i remember day9 saying how when he practiced for some tournament in 2007, he woke up at 10 am and played until 3 am everyday and took breaks for lunch and dinner and stuff, and that's what i plan to do more or less
balistix:
You are going to crash and burn in this game... horribly so. Day[9] was grinding practice for an immediate event. It is NOT POSSIBLE to have QUALITY practice for that long of a period for an extended period.
You will reach a skill cap for yourself and because you don't take the time to actually sit back from the game you will have no perspective and will not advance past that.
I don't know. I wouldn't treat it like you're grinding out levels in some RPG. More games = more XP lol!
I would probably treat it like I do studying for a test. There's only so much studying you can do.
So I guess... it really depends on how much you can learn out of your games. Narrowing down what you need to learn probably helps. Like not playing random; keeping track of 3 match ups instead of all 9.
On July 25 2010 16:29 Everlong wrote: Its good to have a gf, period. If she loves you, she wont let you play like 7-8 hours a day and she will keep you in real life - good thing.
why is that good? nothing wrong with doing what you like to do. if someone stops you from doing what you love to do I think they're not good.
I love smoking, eating fast food, and drinking beer. My gf cooks for me and helps me to relax so i can quit smoking so i think shes good.
your gf helping you stop things you feel guilty of, if someone wants to play a game for 8 hours a day and someone else steps in, there's a problem.
Gotta disagree with you there. Most rational people know what the best choice is, the thing that stops them is usually their emotions, habits, and pretty much themselves. I know that if i live a healthier lifestyle, then i will lead a longer, happier life. Like in school, for example, i knew that if i did my homework first then played starcraft that it would be better, but instead i procrastinated and had to pull all-nighters making the assignments much more painful than they actually were. This is the same situation she is just helping me overcome myself. There is no doubt how i live now what better than i was then.
On July 25 2010 16:29 Everlong wrote: Its good to have a gf, period. If she loves you, she wont let you play like 7-8 hours a day and she will keep you in real life - good thing.
why is that good? nothing wrong with doing what you like to do. if someone stops you from doing what you love to do I think they're not good.
I love smoking, eating fast food, and drinking beer. My gf cooks for me and helps me to relax so i can quit smoking so i think shes good.
your gf helping you stop things you feel guilty of, if someone wants to play a game for 8 hours a day and someone else steps in, there's a problem.
I think that if someone wants to play a game for 8 hours a day, there's a problem.
yeah, its society that doesnt look at gaming as legitimate. that is the problem. partying, and sitting on the couch watching tv is much more legit past time to society and thats sad.
That is why Koreans are so good actually. You are right on this one.
This type of stuff has been happening for years. Koreans dominate Starcraft like Russians dominated Chess. I remember seeing Bobby Fischer talk about how there is Chess talent everywhere out of Russia but there's no incentive or motivation to compete because players don't have the backing and support like Russia, so the good foreign players just fade away. It's EXACTLY like Starcraft in Korea. Good players everywhere, but gaming isn't really legitimate, atleast in USA. So unless people are like IdrA, and physically move to there, there is not much hope. But love for the game won't stop anyone, whether people think its legit or not.
I think you should do what you really like to do no matter what others say, as long as it doesn't hurt others.
I think you should do what you really like to do no matter what others say, as long as it doesn't hurt you and others and doesn't make you poor and starve in your future life.
2 days none stop playing within a week would make you very good player. Also, quality much better than quantity since SC 2 is more of using common sense on what unit to counter what unit.
On July 25 2010 16:56 ProHellZerg wrote: I think you should do what you really like to do no matter what others say, as long as it doesn't hurt you and doesn't make you poor and starve in your future life and not hurt others.
What is "poor"? I think if you are happy with what you do, poor or rich not matter. PS if you can't feed yourself maybe you should figure out a way to feed yourself. I don't recommend playing SC until you die of starvation, you need to eat so you can play SC forever! :D
On July 25 2010 16:29 Everlong wrote: Its good to have a gf, period. If she loves you, she wont let you play like 7-8 hours a day and she will keep you in real life - good thing.
why is that good? nothing wrong with doing what you like to do. if someone stops you from doing what you love to do I think they're not good.
I love smoking, eating fast food, and drinking beer. My gf cooks for me and helps me to relax so i can quit smoking so i think shes good.
your gf helping you stop things you feel guilty of, if someone wants to play a game for 8 hours a day and someone else steps in, there's a problem.
I think that if someone wants to play a game for 8 hours a day, there's a problem.
yeah, its society that doesnt look at gaming as legitimate. that is the problem. partying, and sitting on the couch watching tv is much more legit past time to society and thats sad.
That is why Koreans are so good actually. You are right on this one.
This type of stuff has been happening for years. Koreans dominate Starcraft like Russians dominated Chess. I remember seeing Bobby Fischer talk about how there is Chess talent everywhere out of Russia but there's no incentive or motivation to compete because players don't have the backing and support like Russia, so the good foreign players just fade away. It's EXACTLY like Starcraft in Korea. Good players everywhere, but gaming isn't really legitimate, atleast in USA. So unless people are like IdrA, and physically move to there, there is not much hope. But love for the game won't stop anyone, whether people think its legit or not.
I think you should do what you really like to do no matter what others say, as long as it doesn't hurt others.
That is right, but doing what you love to do as long as it doesnt hurt others is kinda automatic. Doing what you love as long as it doesnt hurt you is a bit tricky. And there you have gf and people that will help you..
I played between 1 and 2 hours a day during the beta and reached diamond league although I never played broodwar. It is sufficient for me, I can't stand staying in front of the computer screen more than a few hours. I know it's hard to reach good level with this amount of hours, but always playing at 100% makes it really efficient.
Most people have a life to live and don't play the game over 7 hours at most... (or lower if you have school/job, but it's summer for me) I play 3-5 during the summer.
On July 25 2010 17:00 Aldair wrote: Poor is not being able to pay bills and feed yourself.
If you can be happy smelling of urine, I'll take your cash and even point you to a nice street corner with a heating grate.
I see, must be just play with words. I think not being able to feed yourself or pay bills is poverty, way worse than poor. Poor just means you don't have money to always spend having fun or get to have latest gadgets, this is where a gaming habits come in and are really good because its' alot cheaper than other things.
Yeah but fyyer, you can't expect someone to be a SC2 pro-gamer and have a decent, stable financial income for over 5 years or longer. Do you expect that person to win the first place at every big prized SC2 tournament over the world every time? Hell no. How will that player play when he is over 35 years old, or even 50 years old? He won't play so well compared to new upcoming generations of Sc2 pro-gamers in the future since aging does in fact slow one's reflexes and body.
I don't know why people keep talking about if you train correctly you don't need to spend many hours playing... In order to be a successful pro gamer you need to be able to beat other pro gamers. And because in this game top players have enough time and are willing to playing in pretty much every tournament with a decent prize pool you are going to have to one of the best to make a decent amount of money. The pros know how to practice AND they are willing to spend 10+ hours today. Unless you are super godly at this game (and if you were you wouldn't be reading this) then you can play less. The major components to this game are experience and mechanics. I don't think IdrA's/korean routine is bad at all for sc because it covers these two topics very well. For mechanics you need muscle memory which translates into a lot of gaming hours. And because of the nature of the game where you plan before you play instead of during the game is run by experience. Experience means running into strats and knowing how to deal with them all - which again is alot of games. The other part is Perfecting your builds which also requires alot of games. Just approach your decisions logically and stick with that decision and ignore your gut feelings; because your gut is actually controlled by the 'stupid' part of your brain.
Also doing what you like isn't a good way to go about life. You have to strike a balance and choose the best decision from what you do know. If i were to do only what i wanted to i would be homeless because i would never work.
On July 25 2010 17:00 Aldair wrote: Poor is not being able to pay bills and feed yourself.
If you can be happy smelling of urine, I'll take your cash and even point you to a nice street corner with a heating grate.
I see, must be just play with words. I think not being able to feed yourself or pay bills is poverty, way worse than poor. Poor just means you don't have money to always spend having fun or get to have latest gadgets, this is where a gaming habits come in and are really good because its' alot cheaper than other things.
But other things are way more satisfying than 7-8 hours of SC2 per day.. :-)
For a new player entering the scene you really need to play the 12+ hours Idra talks about. Whitera has been around for a very long time and mechanics from SC1 switched over very nicely to SC2. While HuK practices 10 hours a day, he really is not one of the tip top players but is a very skilled player none the less. He can win games against good players but that does not mean he can stand toe to toe in a bo100 with tester.Really you must practice, especially if you are new to the scene.
On July 25 2010 15:05 Piski wrote: I would say quality over quantity. Use your time well, actually learn something from your games rather than just grind through them and I guess 5h a days is plenty. You won't be A+ Korean but you will manage
Of course not. You'll always be better if you practice more.
You think you can get as much done in 40 hours as a synthetic organic chemist versus someone who works 80? Bullshit. Don’t believe me? I’ll reassign my graduate student Suk Deep Lee to your molecule. He’s going to work on an alternative route. Don’t talk to me until you’ve made the molecule. Let’s see who makes the most progress, shall we?
Exactly. You’ll fall in line like everyone else.
That's why korean pros are better than foreigners, they just practice so much more.
I completely agree I believe that hard work always pays off. I just got from his post that he isn't intending to compete with the koreans but just wanted to be very good. That's why I said that playing 5h every day will be enough, comparing that say for White-Ra who says he can play over 8h one day and not play the next two days.
I disagree. The example is not relevant since "getting more work done" in organic chemistry is more likely to translate into more games played than skill. Don't get me wrong, of course a lot of practice is needed. In fact, I would wager that if one wants to be the very best it is important to try to play like 10-12 hours a day. Why? Because being able to effectively practice for that long takes practice. I'm an amateur violinist but when I went to a music college I couldn't just start practice 8 hours a day and think it would be beneficial. But after a couple of months gradually increasing the workload I could.
However to try to go from 4 to 10 hours is not going to work out well, because of how our muscle-memory (at least mine) works. YOU NEED TO NOT DO MISTAKES. Rather play 2 hours with minimal mistakes due to really high concentration than play for 3 hours where the last hour is sloppy as hell. Or you will learn doing these mistakes, and keep doing them subconciously.
The study replay part of training can probably be almost as long as you want though, there is most definately diminishing returns the more you do, but at least it is probably not detrimental to your skill.
In short, I would think that the most effective way of practicing to be the best would be to have about 10-12 hours of total SC time a day, and one might start out with 4 x 1 hour mechanical practice (as in playing games) with breaks in between, and the rest for analyzing the game and watching replays. As time goes by increase the amount of mechanical practice as you feel you can without starting to do too many mistakes.
Taking a small break from my 15 page report on robbery... yeh I like SC2 and all but I also like lifting weights. I genuinely enjoy spending 6hrs in the gym and getting stronger. It makes me stronger, faster, more attractive, and its good for my health, and you get respect. If I look at SC2 I don't really see it gaining me anything. Girls don't give a crap and it really doesn't do anything for you in your life. I hope gaming becomes more popular in the US to the point where gaming can be a good skill toi have but atm its just not. I still plan on spending several hours a week on SC and it will be my primary hobby (especially since there is no gym where I live) but I see it falling away. I wish there was more time to do more things but there isn't.
This is why video games are not as popular b/c its a waste of time literally with almost no pay-off, and even when there is pay-off like in Korea its a very small amount of people making money. If I lift weights, and I don't even have to compete or try to be the best or anything like that, I get lots of payoff from it. If there was a following like in poker and games were on money then it would be worth it, but its not. I love video games and SC especially but I'd rather have a wife and money for decent living. Speaking of that I need to get back to my report so I can actually play SC like a madman on release... next two days will be hell but I get to play SC all day mon-tues at least :D
On July 25 2010 15:15 balistix wrote: i remember day9 saying how when he practiced for some tournament in 2007, he woke up at 10 am and played until 3 am everyday and took breaks for lunch and dinner and stuff, and that's what i plan to do more or less
And that too is another point of contention because commentating takes a ton of time too, so by Day[9] doing his daily's, is he basically consenting he will never successfully compete with the pro gamers at the top levels? I don't see how that guy would have time for both practice and daily's. Plus, he's really involved in the community, so that's additional practice time subtracted.
why spend the long hours practicing so hard to be the best in a difficult game when you can make the easy money just doing videos and commentary?
On July 25 2010 17:12 Ploppytheman wrote: Taking a small break from my 15 page report on robbery... yeh I like SC2 and all but I also like lifting weights. I genuinely enjoy spending 6hrs in the gym and getting stronger. It makes me stronger, faster, more attractive, and its good for my health, and you get respect. If I look at SC2 I don't really see it gaining me anything. Girls don't give a crap and it really doesn't do anything for you in your life. I hope gaming becomes more popular in the US to the point where gaming can be a good skill toi have but atm its just not. I still plan on spending several hours a week on SC and it will be my primary hobby (especially since there is no gym where I live) but I see it falling away. I wish there was more time to do more things but there isn't.
This is why video games are not as popular b/c its a waste of time literally with almost no pay-off, and even when there is pay-off like in Korea its a very small amount of people making money. If I lift weights, and I don't even have to compete or try to be the best or anything like that, I get lots of payoff from it. If there was a following like in poker and games were on money then it would be worth it, but its not. I love video games and SC especially but I'd rather have a wife and money for decent living. Speaking of that I need to get back to my report so I can actually play SC like a madman on release... next two days will be hell but I get to play SC all day mon-tues at least :D
In your example, yes there is a payoff, but in a lot of other examples, there is no payoff except fun. Tell me how watching TV all day(excluding news or documentaries) and partying all night better than playing video games all day. But somehow the former is more acceptable.
On July 25 2010 17:12 Ploppytheman wrote: Taking a small break from my 15 page report on robbery... yeh I like SC2 and all but I also like lifting weights. I genuinely enjoy spending 6hrs in the gym and getting stronger. It makes me stronger, faster, more attractive, and its good for my health, and you get respect. If I look at SC2 I don't really see it gaining me anything. Girls don't give a crap and it really doesn't do anything for you in your life. I hope gaming becomes more popular in the US to the point where gaming can be a good skill toi have but atm its just not. I still plan on spending several hours a week on SC and it will be my primary hobby (especially since there is no gym where I live) but I see it falling away. I wish there was more time to do more things but there isn't.
This is why video games are not as popular b/c its a waste of time literally with almost no pay-off, and even when there is pay-off like in Korea its a very small amount of people making money. If I lift weights, and I don't even have to compete or try to be the best or anything like that, I get lots of payoff from it. If there was a following like in poker and games were on money then it would be worth it, but its not. I love video games and SC especially but I'd rather have a wife and money for decent living. Speaking of that I need to get back to my report so I can actually play SC like a madman on release... next two days will be hell but I get to play SC all day mon-tues at least :D
In your example, yes there is a payoff, but in a lot of other examples, there is no payoff except fun. Tell me how watching TV all day(excluding news or documentaries) and partying all night better than playing video games all day. But somehow the former is more acceptable.
I don't think many people believe that watching 8 hours of TV is better than watching 8 hours of starcraft; they probably view it the same. And partying is better than starcraft because its more fun for the time spent
On July 25 2010 17:08 Phayze wrote: For a new player entering the scene you really need to play the 12+ hours Idra talks about. Whitera has been around for a very long time and mechanics from SC1 switched over very nicely to SC2. While HuK practices 10 hours a day, he really is not one of the tip top players but is a very skilled player none the less. He can win games against good players but that does not mean he can stand toe to toe in a bo100 with tester.Really you must practice, especially if you are new to the scene.
I think the wording of that could use some tweaking, it's not that you need to play, but that you want to play. Why else would you play the game if not for fun? Most likely a new player that falls in love with the game is going to play as much as they can until it gets boring, as long as they have the time or take other things away from their time. I think that's where the discussion should be: how much is enjoyable, how much is it until the game is not something you want to play but need to play. As long as it gives some gain of pleasure it will merit some gain of effort, thus efficiency is maximized and skill is gained. Forgive me if I'm merely arguing semantics
On July 25 2010 17:08 Phayze wrote: For a new player entering the scene you really need to play the 12+ hours Idra talks about. Whitera has been around for a very long time and mechanics from SC1 switched over very nicely to SC2. While HuK practices 10 hours a day, he really is not one of the tip top players but is a very skilled player none the less. He can win games against good players but that does not mean he can stand toe to toe in a bo100 with tester.Really you must practice, especially if you are new to the scene.
I think the wording of that could use some tweaking, it's not that you need to play, but that you want to play. Why else would you play the game if not for fun? Most likely a new player that falls in love with the game is going to play as much as they can until it gets boring, as long as they have the time or take other things away from their time. I think that's where the discussion should be: how much is enjoyable, how much is it until the game is not something you want to play but need to play. As long as it gives some gain of pleasure it will merit some gain of effort, thus efficiency is maximized and skill is gained. Forgive me if I'm merely arguing semantics
This topic is about a player who wants to become pro meaning that its not just for fun but also for money
On July 25 2010 17:12 Ploppytheman wrote: Taking a small break from my 15 page report on robbery... yeh I like SC2 and all but I also like lifting weights. I genuinely enjoy spending 6hrs in the gym and getting stronger. It makes me stronger, faster, more attractive, and its good for my health, and you get respect. If I look at SC2 I don't really see it gaining me anything. Girls don't give a crap and it really doesn't do anything for you in your life. I hope gaming becomes more popular in the US to the point where gaming can be a good skill toi have but atm its just not. I still plan on spending several hours a week on SC and it will be my primary hobby (especially since there is no gym where I live) but I see it falling away. I wish there was more time to do more things but there isn't.
This is why video games are not as popular b/c its a waste of time literally with almost no pay-off, and even when there is pay-off like in Korea its a very small amount of people making money. If I lift weights, and I don't even have to compete or try to be the best or anything like that, I get lots of payoff from it. If there was a following like in poker and games were on money then it would be worth it, but its not. I love video games and SC especially but I'd rather have a wife and money for decent living. Speaking of that I need to get back to my report so I can actually play SC like a madman on release... next two days will be hell but I get to play SC all day mon-tues at least :D
In your example, yes there is a payoff, but in a lot of other examples, there is no payoff except fun. Tell me how watching TV all day(excluding news or documentaries) and partying all night better than playing video games all day. But somehow the former is more acceptable.
I don't think many people believe that watching 8 hours of TV is better than watching 8 hours of starcraft; they probably view it the same. And partying is better than starcraft because its more fun for the time spent
Fun is something very subjective which would depend on the person.
On July 25 2010 17:12 Ploppytheman wrote: Taking a small break from my 15 page report on robbery... yeh I like SC2 and all but I also like lifting weights. I genuinely enjoy spending 6hrs in the gym and getting stronger. It makes me stronger, faster, more attractive, and its good for my health, and you get respect. If I look at SC2 I don't really see it gaining me anything. Girls don't give a crap and it really doesn't do anything for you in your life. I hope gaming becomes more popular in the US to the point where gaming can be a good skill toi have but atm its just not. I still plan on spending several hours a week on SC and it will be my primary hobby (especially since there is no gym where I live) but I see it falling away. I wish there was more time to do more things but there isn't.
This is why video games are not as popular b/c its a waste of time literally with almost no pay-off, and even when there is pay-off like in Korea its a very small amount of people making money. If I lift weights, and I don't even have to compete or try to be the best or anything like that, I get lots of payoff from it. If there was a following like in poker and games were on money then it would be worth it, but its not. I love video games and SC especially but I'd rather have a wife and money for decent living. Speaking of that I need to get back to my report so I can actually play SC like a madman on release... next two days will be hell but I get to play SC all day mon-tues at least :D
In your example, yes there is a payoff, but in a lot of other examples, there is no payoff except fun. Tell me how watching TV all day(excluding news or documentaries) and partying all night better than playing video games all day. But somehow the former is more acceptable.
I don't think many people believe that watching 8 hours of TV is better than watching 8 hours of starcraft; they probably view it the same. And partying is better than starcraft because its more fun for the time spent
Fun is something very subjective which would depend on the person.
I guess i may have misunderstood your statement but you said that watching TV is more acceptable and i said that i don't think many people think that way. They probably see them both as equally a waste of time
If rts skills could translate to practical skills then I could see some benefit to training so obsessively on a video game. But right now it makes more logical sense to use the time and resources to learn a skill or trade that will actually last longer than the lifespan of video game.
But that could all change when modern armies are replaced by remote controlled robots....
On July 25 2010 17:12 Ploppytheman wrote: Taking a small break from my 15 page report on robbery... yeh I like SC2 and all but I also like lifting weights. I genuinely enjoy spending 6hrs in the gym and getting stronger. It makes me stronger, faster, more attractive, and its good for my health, and you get respect. If I look at SC2 I don't really see it gaining me anything. Girls don't give a crap and it really doesn't do anything for you in your life. I hope gaming becomes more popular in the US to the point where gaming can be a good skill toi have but atm its just not. I still plan on spending several hours a week on SC and it will be my primary hobby (especially since there is no gym where I live) but I see it falling away. I wish there was more time to do more things but there isn't.
This is why video games are not as popular b/c its a waste of time literally with almost no pay-off, and even when there is pay-off like in Korea its a very small amount of people making money. If I lift weights, and I don't even have to compete or try to be the best or anything like that, I get lots of payoff from it. If there was a following like in poker and games were on money then it would be worth it, but its not. I love video games and SC especially but I'd rather have a wife and money for decent living. Speaking of that I need to get back to my report so I can actually play SC like a madman on release... next two days will be hell but I get to play SC all day mon-tues at least :D
Well, there is a certain payoff from playing video games. If you put the effort into it you can get a mental payoff from playing good games like SC where there's such an immense amount of things to learn which you can transfer to real life.
I think it's 6 hours minimum. Grossly divided in 2 hours laddering, 2 hours practicing with friends, 2 hours watching replays. If you can stay focused enough for more than that, even better, so the koreans are right, to be a successfull pro sc2 player, you need to play for as much as you can stay focused to profit from it, be it 8 or 10 or 12 hours a day.
For what it counts, i play 4-6 hours/day on average when i have the time to do it, less if i haven't.
9/10 GF's wont like that you spend that much time on the computer playing a game instead of talking to them or spending time with them.. idk what kinda fantasy relationships you have had.. lol.
gfs are over rated. long as you can get laid with out one your in great shape :-D. if u cant o well sucks 4 u.
On July 25 2010 17:08 Phayze wrote: For a new player entering the scene you really need to play the 12+ hours Idra talks about. Whitera has been around for a very long time and mechanics from SC1 switched over very nicely to SC2. While HuK practices 10 hours a day, he really is not one of the tip top players but is a very skilled player none the less. He can win games against good players but that does not mean he can stand toe to toe in a bo100 with tester.Really you must practice, especially if you are new to the scene.
I think the wording of that could use some tweaking, it's not that you need to play, but that you want to play. Why else would you play the game if not for fun? Most likely a new player that falls in love with the game is going to play as much as they can until it gets boring, as long as they have the time or take other things away from their time. I think that's where the discussion should be: how much is enjoyable, how much is it until the game is not something you want to play but need to play. As long as it gives some gain of pleasure it will merit some gain of effort, thus efficiency is maximized and skill is gained. Forgive me if I'm merely arguing semantics
This topic is about a player who wants to become pro meaning that its not just for fun but also for money
I hear ya, but would you agree that the most efficient way to become better is by positive stimuli(fun, love) when playing the game, rather than neutral(time grinding) or negative(fear of lack of money/financial security)? Though I could see the argument for both sides
On July 25 2010 15:06 Everlong wrote: Get a gf, really.. Its good both for life and SC2.. As for your question, its impossible to say. Its very individual. Like play 5-6 hours a day and you will be fine.
dunno man. i have a gf and i can tell you its definately not good for SC2. even 4 hours a day would be way out of the question for me
lol amen to this xD
have a fiancee and i live with her, not to mention im at work every day till 6 ^_^
also, how the hell can u spend 6 hours in gym?
anything more than like 90 minutes ur wasting your time ^_^
On July 25 2010 17:08 Phayze wrote: For a new player entering the scene you really need to play the 12+ hours Idra talks about. Whitera has been around for a very long time and mechanics from SC1 switched over very nicely to SC2. While HuK practices 10 hours a day, he really is not one of the tip top players but is a very skilled player none the less. He can win games against good players but that does not mean he can stand toe to toe in a bo100 with tester.Really you must practice, especially if you are new to the scene.
I think the wording of that could use some tweaking, it's not that you need to play, but that you want to play. Why else would you play the game if not for fun? Most likely a new player that falls in love with the game is going to play as much as they can until it gets boring, as long as they have the time or take other things away from their time. I think that's where the discussion should be: how much is enjoyable, how much is it until the game is not something you want to play but need to play. As long as it gives some gain of pleasure it will merit some gain of effort, thus efficiency is maximized and skill is gained. Forgive me if I'm merely arguing semantics
This topic is about a player who wants to become pro meaning that its not just for fun but also for money
I hear ya, but would you agree that the most efficient way to become better is by positive stimuli(fun, love) when playing the game, rather than neutral(time grinding) or negative(fear of lack of money/financial security)? Though I could see the argument for both sides
Well having fun with the game can give you motivation which will help but my argument was that to be a pro gamer you have to be better than the other players at something. Since most of the game has to do with experience and mechanics which take mostly time and not much thought you are going to have to practice all day everyday to be a top player. Most of the gamers are not stupid, they know how to get better fast as well. It's just plain and simple that you HAVE TO put a lot of time into this game to make a decent amount of money.
On July 25 2010 17:48 Alpina wrote: I can play few games max then i must make a pause of few hours.
I can't imagine how someone can enjoy playing 12 hours non stop.
IdrA doesn't. He said in one interview that he plays in 4 hour blocks with meals and sleep in between. Personally I'm going to be practicing 4 hours a day. I think it's a good amount of time to get immersed in the game but not have to sacrifice school, work, social life, etc.
On July 25 2010 15:15 balistix wrote: i remember day9 saying how when he practiced for some tournament in 2007, he woke up at 10 am and played until 3 am everyday and took breaks for lunch and dinner and stuff, and that's what i plan to do more or less
And that too is another point of contention because commentating takes a ton of time too, so by Day[9] doing his daily's, is he basically consenting he will never successfully compete with the pro gamers at the top levels? I don't see how that guy would have time for both practice and daily's. Plus, he's really involved in the community, so that's additional practice time subtracted.
why spend the long hours practicing so hard to be the best in a difficult game when you can make the easy money just doing videos and commentary?
haha, I think this sums it up pretty well. "what is the wealth potential" is the real reason. If people discover you spend your free time doing something that doesn't make alot of money it will be frowned upon. But if it's something that has the potential to make you alot of money it will be accepted. If SC2 sponsored tournaments offered millions of dollars people would quickly start thinking of pro gaming (and therefore gaming) as legit. I don't think this is necessarily a good thing if money is dictating what is good and what isn't. I think a good way to tell if something or someone is legit is by removing the money factor. If someone loves doing something they will do it for free (like those who play video games hardcore), whether or not people believe it's legit.
People frown on McDonalds workers too, since you don't make alot of money working there, but not when they are ordering a burger and large fries. Just like many of you frown upon pro gamers, but not when you're watching Jaedong vs Flash.
I think everyone is different and should play the amount that makes the difference for them, but to also not sacrifice sleep and exercise (as NonY suggests) because that will keep your mind and body healthy, making you refreshed for sc2, and even more importantly; rl
First of all, sorry, my post is shifting a bit out of topic, but the whole thread took this shift so I'm going with it. It's just my opinion on all these upcoming "I want to become a progamer" threads and not explicitly pointing at this thread as it's not the original topic.
I can understand the ambitious point of view to become a progamer. If there is a competition, the desire to improve and get better than your opponent is natural and a good thing - SC2 is very similar to sports But unlike "usual" sports you have to sacrifice a lot considering our social norms and society's general perspective on esports to play a video game in a competitive scene - and the competitive SC2 scene is getting HUGE, you will have to put tremendous amounts of effort into it to get one of the best in your region. I don't want to say that being a nerd and doing only one thing for a notable period of time in your life is bad, actually I think being passionate about something is the best thing you can experience in your life. You can collect the weirdest amount of porcelain figurines, as long as you are passionate about that it's a really cool thing and I would enjoy listening to you talk about it and your whole porcelain figurine background. I mean sure you could go to a gym at your spare time or do something else which gives you more "payoff" (from other people's point of view), but if that doesn't make you feel satisfied there is no use for it and in the end there is no payoff at all. So what I want to say is that you should always be aware of your life situation. If you can spend a lot of time to play SC2 and become very good at it, it's a great, great thing. If you love doing that, do it. But always consider the sacrifices (whatever you do in your freetime, if it's going to the gym, partying, sleeping 14 hours a day or posting ridiculously long posts on the internetz there are always sacrifices). It's very easy to spend plenty of your best years with playing a video game, but you should have goals, deadlines and some kind of backup plan. And especially with a risky plan like becoming a Starcraft 2 progamer you shouldn't force yourself into doing it, just do what feels right for you. Not what gives you fun or makes you feel happy for a short amount of time, but what feels right if you look at your own life without lying to yourself. And don't put everyone who wants to give you advice down as narrow-minded and full of prejudices. But at the same time you should be able to stand for everything you do and why you do it and mustn't let other people force you into stuff they want you to do just because of social norms or financial reasons.
As other people already pointed out - there are different pros and cons for becoming a progamer. If you think the pros will still outweigh the cons in 5 years from now, and you think you are ambitious enough to have a good chance of getting as good as the current progamers, then ffs DO IT! But don't lie to yourself when you have to answer these questions and make sure you will never regret what you did.
edit: And well, what I wanted to point out under these circumstances is, that it doesn't matter at all if you play 8, 10 or 12 hours a day. It's about being ambitious and having goals to get better. There is no "If I play 12 hours a day, I will be a pro in 6 months. If I play 10 hours a day, I can't do it.". If you want to be really good, learn and study the game as Gretorp pointed out in one of his casts, get your mechanics really precise and good. Don't just ladder 12 hours a day.
On July 25 2010 15:15 balistix wrote: i remember day9 saying how when he practiced for some tournament in 2007, he woke up at 10 am and played until 3 am everyday and took breaks for lunch and dinner and stuff, and that's what i plan to do more or less
And that too is another point of contention because commentating takes a ton of time too, so by Day[9] doing his daily's, is he basically consenting he will never successfully compete with the pro gamers at the top levels? I don't see how that guy would have time for both practice and daily's. Plus, he's really involved in the community, so that's additional practice time subtracted.
why spend the long hours practicing so hard to be the best in a difficult game when you can make the easy money just doing videos and commentary?
haha, I think this sums it up pretty well. "what is the wealth potential" is the real reason. If people discover you spend your free time doing something that doesn't make alot of money it will be frowned upon. But if it's something that has the potential to make you alot of money it will be accepted. If SC2 sponsored tournaments offered millions of dollars people would quickly start thinking of pro gaming (and therefore gaming) as legit. I don't think this is necessarily a good thing if money is dictating what is good and what isn't. I think a good way to tell if something or someone is legit is by removing the money factor. If someone loves doing something they will do it for free (like those who play video games hardcore), whether or not people believe it's legit.
People frown on McDonalds workers too, since you don't make alot of money working there, but not when they are ordering a burger and large fries. Just like many of you frown upon pro gamers, but not when you're watching Jaedong vs Flash.
People still frown on people trying to go pro in basketball or football, etc. The chances of that happening are slim, it's highly competitive with limited opportunities, and doesn't give you much skills beyond it. Most pro ballers use their money after retirement to invest in business or use their celebrity to get work (usually as within the same industry as a commentator, analyst, or coach). And that's for the high skilled players, I have no idea what the benchwarmers do after their careers are over.
The reality of it is, a lot of things that are fun just isn't going to give you much financial stability. That's why they stay only as hobbies for the vast majority of people. But don't mind the money loving workaholics though, they think the only things worth doing has to generate money. If you're financially stable, play 12 hours if you want.
I don't want to be a progamer or something, so I don't have the motivation or the nerves for those 10hours a day.
For me, it's maximum 2-3 hours of solo games. More than this, it's just too exhausting and not fun. I think i'm gonna play this game for a long time, so i'm going to improve little by little.
Anyway, I can spend more time in sc2: watching a tourney, obsing games, looking at TL.
If you want to be a progamer you need to practice how you want to play. Messing around with SC 3-4 hours a day (not including weekends) isn't going to cut it if you want to be the best. My school's Ultimate Frisby team practices 4 hours a day+individual time and they are just doing it so they can keep up with the other teams. They don't plan on winning tournaments or blowing anyone out of the water.
Top Ultimate Frisby teams? It's their life. After class until after dinner they practice, 6+ hours a day, 8 hour weekend practices plus individual time put in. They also diet, get the best equipment, basically they live for their game.
How much time do you think the local douchebag who plays his guitar on the quad practices? Couple hours a day? I would imagine the motivation for these people is picking up girls or showing the whole campus just how untalented they are with a guitar. Or maybe they really do think they're version of whatever Ben Fold's song is really tight.
Now how about a violinist for the NY phil harmonic? Professional musicians spend most of their day, every day practicing. Music allows for no errors. Right note, right pitch, right time, etc. You can not bat a .3 and be considered "good". You have to be perfect every time. If you want to be a pro, you should probably start as a child, since you're going to need the time to practice.
The amount of time you need to practice SC2 to be "really successful" is dependent on the amount of time other people are willing to spend on it. You could spend 3-4 hours a day playing and be the best player in your high school/campus.
But if you want to make money? Then you're talking about a job. If you want to be really successful you have to take it seriously. We're talking training schedules, giving up a helluvalot.
I kinda shudder whenever I hear something like "I want to be the best sc2 player ever but I still want a girlfriend, time to work out, hang out with friends, get A's in all my classes and cure cancer."
Unless you're the second coming of Flash (without having to spend all time he did practicing) maybe you could have it all. But look at the average Korean Progamer to see the kinds of stuff they give up, which mostly consists of girls/friends because they have to spend all day practicing.
Maybe you could be the best in the U.S. with 3-4 hours of training if you're already super awesome, but that's because most US players don't want to be super successful at SC2 because they'd rather spend their time with GF's, friends, and living a normal life.
I'm not saying it's impossible to be a progamer with a relatively normal life. White Ra does it. But let us remember that White Ra has been playing at top levels for years and years, is a helluvalot older than most of us, so I would imagine he's already been through the necessary hoops.
So, if you're already a progamer with your life set up and 2 jobs, 8 hours is about the minimum.
In phase 2 I played between 30 minutes and 2 hours a day. It was slow to get my skills back but I was still improving every day - u just need to be awake, aware, and thinking when you play.
And I like to quote that idra thinks it takes 30 minutes a day to be a top NA player =)
I think the optimal amount amount of playing hours of sc2 (not counting replays), in which our ownly goal is getting as good as possible in like the next 6 months or so, is much higher than ppl expect. Sure the difference isn't very big if you play 7 hours/day instead of 6 hours day, but the diff. is still there. And you do get some extra training. IMO its therefore close to 12-14 hours/day. Sure its boring as h..., and a poor life, but this is IMO how you become the best player.
Isn't it personal? I can play 5-6 hours straight one day but the next day I will probably not feel like playing. Also, if I include time spent on forums, irc chat and watching vod/replays, the time spent on SC2 is much, much higher. I think the time you can put in without making you ill or not taking care of other things in life is what you should(have?) to put in to be amongst the best.
Why waste your life playing a game 8 hours a day. Sure its a good game, but there are much better things to do in life. You need to go out, socialize, get exercize, meet women. If you start playing games more than 4 hours a day your life will fall apart. Look how awful most of the sc2 pros look, its because they never go outside and get sun or exercize or socialize. Humans are not meant to live like that. Once in awhile it is ok to play all day long but dont make a habit of it. Get a job, a girlfriend, and a gym membership and you will be much happier in life.
do you really need others to tell you how many hours is efficient for you? i can answer it for you, its the time you can spend with this game a day without loosing focus like others have said: quality time!
Ugh, this thread is so depressing. I've played other games competitively, and sometimes I flirt with trying to be competitive at SC2, but this is the only game I've ever played where you have to become a nolifer to be pro.
You don't get much benefit from playing a shooter game for 12 hours/day. Many pro teams play 4-8 hours a day, which is pretty reasonable.
This is a huge barrier to SC2 ever becoming a major esport. Sitting at a computer gaming 12-16 hours a day is not and will never be acceptable in American culture.
Also, this amount of devotion actually reduces the amount of competition on games. There are many people who may be naturally talented who are excluded because they have things in their life that prevent them from playing that much.
The Korean-style 14-hour practices are not good for competitive videogaming.
Sorry for double post, I have to clear up this HUGE misconception that people keep posting. People keep posting that gaming for 12 hours a day is the same thing as playing sports for 12 hours a day.
1) Sports get you in shape. They are good for your body. Sitting at a computer that long is NOT good for your body. Even if you exercise in your downtime, that much sitting will take a toll on you.
2) Sports are challenging to practice that long. Practicing a sport 12-16 hours a day takes HUGE amounts of dedication and you have to battle your body physically tempting you to stop. Any lazy person can play a computer game for 12-16 hours. That doesn't mean they'll be good, but it's not an accomplishment to play a game for 12-16 hours whereas playing a sport that long is a challenging feat.
3) Sports skills carry over into other aspects of your life. For example, being in shape. This will help you throughout your life. Game-specific skills like being able to micro marauders perfectly will not.
Please stop making comparisons between playing sports and video games for this long.
Let's start the other way around, by defining the time you need for essential things first:
8h sleep - that varies with person, some people can need 9 others 7, so lets use the average. Lunch and dinner: Making meals: 30min x 2 Eating and cleaning: 35min x 2 Small meals: 10min x 2 2h 30m Shower and dressing - 30m Total: 11h This leaves you with
13h
If you're planning to cut every social aspect then just add in a few breaks and you're done, otherwise subtract a bit more.
Now i'd say for each hour of practice at least 10-15min of theory, so if playing 9h, 1h30min-2h15min of theory. This value is based on experience (i used to play a lot, study a lot, and play a lot o fpiano), and how much theory one can think of and apply in games. Too much theory to apply can be confusing and brings too many different variables, while too little will slow your improvment significantly. Instead of min of theory per hour of practice, practicing specific concepts can also be good, as long as you keep bringing new concepts to practice everyday, and always having something specific to improve.
On July 26 2010 05:59 iEchoic wrote: Sorry for double post, I have to clear up this HUGE misconception that people keep posting. People keep posting that gaming for 12 hours a day is the same thing as playing sports for 12 hours a day.
1) Sports get you in shape. They are good for your body. Sitting at a computer that long is NOT good for your body. Even if you exercise in your downtime, that much sitting will take a toll on you.
2) Sports are challenging to practice that long. Practicing a sport 12-16 hours a day takes HUGE amounts of dedication and you have to battle your body physically tempting you to stop. Any lazy person can play a computer game for 12-16 hours. That doesn't mean they'll be good, but it's not an accomplishment to play a game for 12-16 hours whereas playing a sport that long is a challenging feat.
3) Sports skills carry over into other aspects of your life. For example, being in shape. This will help you throughout your life. Game-specific skills like being able to micro marauders perfectly will not.
Please stop making comparisons between playing sports and video games for this long.
Good post. Sports are also good for you for a multitude of reasons that video games are not. Sports engage more than just your mind and your fingers, you are actually moving your body inside of the real world. When you are playing games you are completely sedentary and in a fantasy world. This is bad for your physical AND mental health. Sports also develop you socially and make you more confident while games make you anti social with self esteem issues if you do nothing but play games.
That being said, sports should not be played 8 hours a day either. Most pro atheletes do not practice this much, they tend to do 2 hours broken into two session, and some hardcore atheletes will do a 3rd 2 hour session. That is the norm for a PRO athelete. The reason gamers can play for 12 hours a day is because gaming is a form of Sloth (lazyness and escapism).
Now I'm not saying gaming is entirely bad for you, because it is fun. When something is fun, thats a good reason to do it but you can easily get carried away with it. By overdoing gaming you will pay the price later with health problems, poor looks, bad social skills, and virtually no life. I reccommend balancing your life with gaming. Make sure that you are getting great exercise and nutrition, have a social life, an income or education, and are gaming as your free-time hobby. For most people that would mean gaming no more than 4-6 hours per day MAX.
This is a huge barrier to SC2 ever becoming a major esport. Sitting at a computer gaming 12-16 hours a day is not and will never be acceptable in American culture.
The Korean-style 14-hour practices are not good for competitive videogaming.
acceptable.. who cares? and it will almost defiantly become acceptable in American culture at the rate it is growing now.
On July 26 2010 05:59 iEchoic wrote: Sorry for double post, I have to clear up this HUGE misconception that people keep posting. People keep posting that gaming for 12 hours a day is the same thing as playing sports for 12 hours a day.
1) Sports get you in shape. They are good for your body. Sitting at a computer that long is NOT good for your body. Even if you exercise in your downtime, that much sitting will take a toll on you.
2) Sports are challenging to practice that long. Practicing a sport 12-16 hours a day takes HUGE amounts of dedication and you have to battle your body physically tempting you to stop. Any lazy person can play a computer game for 12-16 hours. That doesn't mean they'll be good, but it's not an accomplishment to play a game for 12-16 hours whereas playing a sport that long is a challenging feat.
3) Sports skills carry over into other aspects of your life. For example, being in shape. This will help you throughout your life. Game-specific skills like being able to micro marauders perfectly will not.
Please stop making comparisons between playing sports and video games for this long.
That being said, sports should not be played 8 hours a day either. Most pro atheletes do not practice this much, they tend to do 2 hours broken into two session, and some hardcore atheletes will do a 3rd 2 hour session. That is the norm for a PRO athelete. The reason gamers can play for 12 hours a day is because gaming is a form of Sloth (lazyness and escapism).
Agreed, and this brings up another good point - most good competitive things have built-in limits on how much time you can spend practicing them. It is actually very bad for the competitive scene that talented players can be beaten by less-talented players simply because SC2 can be practiced 14 hours a day.
Most sports you actually can not practice that long. For example, you can't just head to the gym and pump iron for 14 hours a day. Your body won't allow it.
In most videogames, it's actually frowned upon to play as much as some of these SC2 pros do. Even with competitive games like Halo, if you go on the MLG forums and post that you play 14 hours a day, EVERYONE in there is going to call you a geek, and you're going to get a reputation for simply being good because you play more than everyone else.
As much as the Halo community sucks, this is actually good in a way. It keeps talent the supreme skill instead of playtime. It allows talented individuals the opportunity to succeed at something, and prevents everyone from forfeiting their social life to compete.
SC2 doesn't have any playtime-restricting mechanism. And that is very bad for the future of the game.
This is a huge barrier to SC2 ever becoming a major esport. Sitting at a computer gaming 12-16 hours a day is not and will never be acceptable in American culture.
The Korean-style 14-hour practices are not good for competitive videogaming.
acceptable.. who cares? and it will almost defiantly become acceptable in American culture at the rate it is growing now.
It won't be acceptable because it's bad for your body. This isn't a subjective thing, the perception is rooted in objective reality, and it won't be changing.
Girls aren't going to like scrawny boy-men regardless of how much fun gaming is.
Echoic, you have a couple problems there with your argument.
1) Sports/physical activity can also harm you if you do it too much. Just as much, if not more so, than sitting down for 12 hours. This point isn't very valid because nobody does sports 12 straight hours a day because the human body isn't capable of that kind of activity.
There is also evidence that games like chess/go help with mental diseases like Alzheimer and dementia.
Games are just as important for health as sports are. They provide exercise for our brains and bodies, which is absolutely necessary.
2) Playing a sport for a full 12-16 hours is more than an accomplishment, it's a feat worthy of the Guiness book of world records. I would argue that playing chess/go at a high level for 16 hours is just as consuming as playing sports for a long time. We already know that it's physically possible to sit longer than it is to exercise, so I'm not sure what the major point here is. There is just as much struggle to become good at internationally recognized games (Poker, chess, go) as there is in sports.
I could even make the argument that the competition for chess players is rougher than it is for most people who play sports. Not everyone is born with the capacity to be great at a specific sporting position. But you can be a quadriplegic and be a chess master. Your sphere of competition is much, much wider.
You might argue that since a cripple can play chess, that means chess is "easier" to play or practice. Do you want to make that argument?
3) Sports skills carry over into real life just as much as skills gained from learning chess, go, and other mentally intensive games.
Your arguments are pretty biased and that makes them pretty ineffective. I don't disagree with the benefits/good things to come from sports, but please, stop making comparisons between playing sports and video games.
Echo, to make the argument that SC2 won't make the American scene because it's "bad for your body" is a horrible argument. McDonald's, Cigarettes, Coffee, Donuts, removing gym class from schools, etc. etc. "Being bad for your health" is not a concern for most of America. America loves things that is bad for them physically.
Let's look at Korean pro gamers who spend 10 mandatory hours playing a day then another what, 4+ on their own? They seem pretty healthy to me.
If you're relying primarily on other people's responses to the OP question, then you should not force such a huge investment upon yourself. Play as many hours as you want to play - without ulterior motivation. You'll naturally gravitate to an equilibrium that is right for you, and from that vantage point you will be able to answer your own question. Experience will reveal whether you have the potential and the love of the game that are conducive to playing the long hours required to be the best. And, if you meet both of those criteria, the time will invest itself.
The very best players in the world are forced to push themselves further than their intrinsic desire would take them, but you are not in a position to wisely make that commitment yourself.
On July 26 2010 06:19 Cpt.Nasty wrote: Echoic, you have a couple problems there with your argument.
1) Sports/physical activity can also harm you if you do it too much. Just as much, if not more so, than sitting down for 12 hours. This point isn't very valid because nobody does sports 12 straight hours a day because the human body isn't capable of that kind of activity.
There is also evidence that games like chess/go help with mental diseases like Alzheimer and dementia.
Games are just as important for health as sports are. They provide exercise for our brains and bodies, which is absolutely necessary.
2) Playing a sport for a full 12-16 hours is more than an accomplishment, it's a feat worthy of the Guiness book of world records. I would argue that playing chess/go at a high level for 16 hours is just as consuming as playing sports for a long time. We already know that it's physically possible to sit longer than it is to exercise, so I'm not sure what the major point here is. There is just as much struggle to become good at internationally recognized games (Poker, chess, go) as there is in sports.
I could even make the argument that the competition for chess players is rougher than it is for most people who play sports. Not everyone is born with the capacity to be great at a specific sporting position. But you can be a quadriplegic and be a chess master. Your sphere of competition is much, much wider.
You might argue that since a cripple can play chess, that means chess is "easier" to play or practice. Do you want to make that argument?
3) Sports skills carry over into real life just as much as skills gained from learning chess, go, and other mentally intensive games.
Your arguments are pretty biased and that makes them pretty ineffective. I don't disagree with the benefits/good things to come from sports, but please, stop making comparisons between playing sports and video games.
Echo, to make the argument that SC2 won't make the American scene because it's "bad for your body" is a horrible argument. McDonald's, Cigarettes, Coffee, Donuts, removing gym class from schools, etc. etc. "Being bad for your health" is not a concern for most of America. America loves things that is bad for them physically.
There are good things you get from gaming, I don't deny this. Gaming is a form of mental exercise. Overdoing anything is bad for you though and spending the majority of you day playing a game is simply unhealthy both mentally and physically.
On July 26 2010 06:19 Cpt.Nasty wrote: Echoic, you have a couple problems there with your argument.
1) Sports/physical activity can also harm you if you do it too much. Just as much, if not more so, than sitting down for 12 hours. This point isn't very valid because nobody does sports 12 straight hours a day because the human body isn't capable of that kind of activity.
You're right, I actually mentioned that in my above post (you probably wrote this before I posted).
There is also evidence that games like chess/go help with mental diseases like Alzheimer and dementia.
Games are just as important for health as sports are. They provide exercise for our brains and bodies, which is absolutely necessary.
This is true, but the end point of your argument is absurd. Being physically fit your entire life is a million times more valuable than reducing the chance of Alzheimer and dementia for the last 1/6th of your life.
2 I would argue that playing chess/go at a high level for 16 hours is just as consuming as playing sports for a long time.
Only on the TL forums would someone write something like this... This statement is completely insane.
I could even make the argument that the competition for chess players is rougher than it is for most people who play sports. Not everyone is born with the capacity to be great at a specific sporting position. But you can be a quadriplegic and be a chess master. Your sphere of competition is much, much wider.
You might argue that since a cripple can play chess, that means chess is "easier" to play or practice. Do you want to make that argument?
This brings up a good point - there's a really important point I'd like to make here. Chess is an excellent competitive game, but the main difference between it and SC2 is that a large part of SC2 skill is defined by what we call 'mechanics'. Mechanics are usually repetitive motions, muscle-memory skills that can be developed simply with practice. This is what makes SC2 take such a huge devotion of time to master.
Chess is a purely mental game. Just like you said, a quadriplegic can be a chess master, because how fast you move the pieces isn't a factor in your skill level. If moving the chess pieces as fast as possible was an important skill, we'd have something more similar to Starcraft, and we'd see the opposite of your argument once again.
Practicing chess 16 hours a day isn't a huge competitive advantage because it doesn't involve the muscle-memory repetition of what we call 'mechanics'.
Let me tell you a really sad story about my own life.
There's a MMO called FlyFF that I was obsessed with for 2 years. There are 6 character classes in the game, and after the first year that I was playing, I was well known as the best Ranger on any server (there are about 4.5 million players worldwide) and I accomplished things that were unheard of for the Ranger class which was typically considered the weakest pvp class. I've been away from the game for 6 months now, but I just checked and STILL no one has touched my world records for damage. To do this, I literally almost wasted away spending 100% of my free time on the game and a lot more time that WASN'T free, I played as well. I failed 3 courses during the time I was playing, lost touch with my social life, and found myself out of shape, underweight, and on a terribly unpredictable sleep schedule. The fact was that getting to the top and staying at the top required nothing less, though.
Now, let me tell you a happy story about my own life.
Eventually something snapped in my head and I realized that it wasn't worth it to keep playing FlyFF. I sold my accounts and quit forever and simultaneously began to wonder... what would happen if I took the time I had been spending playing FlyFF and spent half of it working out and half of it studying? 6 months later, I'm now in my last semester of college getting great grades, I've gained 30 pounds of pure muscle and am back to having lean, ripped abs, bulky arms, a tan, and I spend the majority of my free time going out with friends and STILL have time to play SC2 about 1-2 hours a day, maybe 3 on weekends. I'm much, much happier... and all I did was reallocate the majority of the time I spent gaming to other things. Oh... and I'm getting laid again now after a 2 year dry spell!
So anyways, you can play anywhere between zero and 24 hours a day... just make sure that you've spent a good amount of time thinking about what your values and priorities are and don't forget to consider what your values and priorities will be in the future. If you determine that SC2, a game that you have next to no chance at all of ever being the best at, is truly worth sacrificing the other things you could accomplish with your time... then go for it, you have my permission.
FYI - 8 hours a day at lets say just 5 days a week is 40 hours a week, 160 hours a month, and 2080 hours a year of Starcraft 2... imagine what other goals you could accomplish in your life with 2080 extra hours to spend.
I'd say the best way is still Korean style. The strength of Korean style training is to perfect your execution. A lot of times it's up to the coaches to analyze strategies and teach the players what to do. The players themselves practice to perfect their execution. Koreans often select players solely because of their APM.
And in most games nowadays, execution is usually 90% of the battle. Most top-level pros already have a good understanding of strategies and how the game works. The difference is in the execution.
So basically, dedicate 8-10 hrs to becoming a mechanics robot and hire somebody to analyze strats and coach you.
On July 26 2010 05:48 Sabresandiego wrote: Why waste your life playing a game 8 hours a day. Sure its a good game, but there are much better things to do in life. You need to go out, socialize, get exercize, meet women. If you start playing games more than 4 hours a day your life will fall apart. Look how awful most of the sc2 pros look, its because they never go outside and get sun or exercize or socialize. Humans are not meant to live like that. Once in awhile it is ok to play all day long but dont make a habit of it. Get a job, a girlfriend, and a gym membership and you will be much happier in life.
On July 25 2010 16:18 MuTT wrote: I find it horrifying that people are actually trying to be pro gamers. Such a terrible idea! Get a degree in computer science or engineering and you will have a better income for the rest of your life with less work. Being a progamer takes the fun out of the game because you are playing because you have too. If you get burned out it must be like working 12 hours a day at any other shitty job. Let's assess the gains and risk +'s -small chance of earning 6 figure / famous among nerds -enjoy what you play (best case)
-'s - zero social life -most likely will be making less than minimum wage -not a good future for after sc2 - Most likely will postpone getting laid by years -Stressful/ not a steady income - Good chance of not liking the game you play - Cannot go on extended breaks - Competing with other people who are fanatical to get that small sum of money -list goes on and one but i don't wanna stretch this out TL;DR: Being a pro gamer is one of the worst 'careers' imaginable
I think posts like these are hilarious. These guys are essentially trying to tell us that their desires are more important than those of another, but in reality both are equally meaningless/worthless. Who are we to tell another that his goals are more worthless than our own? Just because society has told us what is and is not attractive/admirable? A venerable Buddhist monk would look at both goals (money, status, social life, girls vs gaming skills) as equally worthless and not worth our time.
Westerners always see happiness as something you can attain through external conditioning (girls, big house, fancy car, status; ego driven goals essentially) while ancient eastern philosophy sees happiness as something attained through internal conditioning (no desire = no suffering/dissatisfaction = happiness)
We're all operating on western philosophy, and I cant help but laugh when one of us tries to tell another that his/her goals are pointless. Unless you're a venerable monk or a spiritual guru, dont fucking tell me or anybody else what is or is not worthwhile.
If you enjoy what you're doing and you arent jeopardizing your own/others' health/future existence (death vs life) then keep doing what you're doing. Don't let others tell you what is or is not important.
I'm going to be a sophomore at my University this coming late August, and I currently have a gf. All of my time not spent doing homework and spending time with her is going to be dedicated to this game. She knows I play, and doesn't care. Right on ya? =D
Echoic, you seem to make the argument that spending serious amounts of time on gaming automatically means you have to be unhealthy. This is not true. Let's take the pictures of the top 5 korean pro teams (I dunno how it actually works, I never got into BW when I was a kid) and compare them to average USA citizens. Who do you think would actually be healthier?
Pro/gaming =/= unhealthy living. It's all about lifestyle.
I've done plenty of physical/mental activities. Marching band, wrestling, Kung Fu (more like MMA but that's what the sign said lol), learned chess, etc. To say what is "more consuming" is a personal thing. I like physical activity. It's not a big thing for me to work myself to exhaustion and want to go again. I love combat sports most of all. I can get beat up and go back again for more no problem. I love it. Did I just get choked out? AWESOME HOW"D YOU DO IT OMG!1!
Someone just pop me in the nose? Let's get back to work.
Did I just tear my ACL? Give me a few months and I'll be back.
Unfortunately I can't really do much of that anymore. Point being, Kungfu/wrestling was by far the most physically demanding thing I've done, but it wasn't hard.
Marching band? Physically demanding (I was in percussion, so I got to carry the heavy shit), maybe not as much as wrestling or KF, but imagine trying to playing 5+ songs from memory while having marched several miles in 95+ wheather. The songs have to be absolutely perfect and since you're playing percussion, you also have to make sure your rhythm is %100 correct or you fuck up the whole band. It's easy for the first few miles. But that's the thing, you're never competitively judged for your first half of the marching, oh no. You go for miles and miles, and at the very end, when you are so exhausted you can't even think, when the only thing keeping you moving is muscle memory, and all your mind is devoted to trying to stay in step, on beat, and hitting the right notes? That's pretty damn consuming.
But to play game after game of chess while losing to middle school students? Ugh, it takes real willpower to continue. To say that physical sports are necessarily more consuming shows another huge bias IMO. It depends on the kind of person you are.
Since the majority of Americans seem to shy away from any physical activity I guess I could see a certain amount of smugness that would come from playing a sport. After all, what would they know about "consuming" if they never even played a sport. But to say it is "insane" to think that a game could be more consuming than a sport? Maybe for you that is true, but some of us have different outlooks.
Sports are awesome, and I think everyone should find some kind of physical activity they enjoy doing in a group.
For casual gamers that want to still be good at the game , 3-5 hours per day seems ideal and should be easy to fit into school/social life.
I don't believe in "progaming." The amount of time and dedication you have to put into the game is ridiculous, having to play at least 8 hours per day. Very few will make any sort of living playing this game in favor or finishing a degree or having any social life in general. There really is no stable future in playing video games.
On July 25 2010 15:06 Everlong wrote: Get a gf, really.. Its good both for life and SC2.. As for your question, its impossible to say. Its very individual. Like play 5-6 hours a day and you will be fine.
dunno man. i have a gf and i can tell you its definately not good for SC2. even 4 hours a day would be way out of the question for me
You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: -No self esteem -bad grades
wrong as all fuck
It is impossible to play SC2 12 hours a day and get good grades while doing a hard degree. Almost all the people who claim they do are women's studies majors or english majors.
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: -No self esteem -bad grades
wrong as all fuck
It is impossible to play SC2 12 hours a day and get good grades while doing a hard degree.
Whether a degree is hard or not is subjective as fuck.
It's actually not subjective at all. Have you gone to college? Different majors have to take different amount of credits, and different classes take different amounts of hours to succeed in. You can actually call up a school's advising department and ask them. Obviously when I say 'hard' I am talking about amount of time required to succeed in.
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
I'm pretty sure this is all wrong. I'm 19 and have been playing Blizzard games since 98. I do play competatively and it hasn't changed my life in any way, if anything it's made my life better. If you let the game become your reality, it might change you. I have a girlfriend, I get straight A's in my Univeristy classes, I'm tan, I have an above average ripped body.
All of what you said I have to disagree on. I plan on playing starcraft 4-6 hours a day of solid competative play.
-High productivity -Active social life (Starcraft community and real life) -Great Health (Eating right, Working out, Staying away from parties [NOT KILLING MY LIVER]) -Sexy from lots of exercize and sun ;D -Awesome girlfriend -High self esteem -Good job, Good grades
Now what you posted might of been describing you, but not most of us here imo. Try not being a jerk, it's not nice =]
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: ...As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
On July 26 2010 07:00 iEchoic wrote: It's actually not subjective at all. Have you gone to college?
Yes it is, and yes I have.
Different majors have to take different amount of credits, and different classes take different amounts of hours to succeed in.
A given piece of economics homework/study/whatever could easily take one person 2-3 hours while someone else (namely, me) could knock it out in 30 minutes.
You can actually call up a school's advising department and ask them. Obviously when I say 'hard' I am talking about amount of time required to succeed in.
And that is subjective, because people have different interests, talents, abilities, speeds, and so forth.
And its not like you have to take a hard degree anyway.
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
I'm pretty sure this is all wrong. I'm 19 and have been playing Blizzard games since 98. I do play competatively and it hasn't changed my life in any way, if anything it's made my life better. If you let the game become your reality, it might change you. I have a girlfriend, I get straight A's in my Univeristy classes, I'm tan, I have an above average ripped body.
All of what you said I have to disagree on. I plan on playing starcraft 4-6 hours a day of solid competative play.
-High productivity -Active social life (Starcraft community and real life) -Great Health (Eating right, Working out, Staying away from parties [NOT KILLING MY LIVER]) -Sexy from lots of exercize and sun ;D -Awesome girlfriend -High self esteem -Good job, Good grades
Now what you posted might of been describing you, but not most of us here imo. Try not being a jerk, it's not nice =]
You realize that 4-6 hours of SC2 every day is not enough to be a SC2 pro-gamer right? We are not talking about playing SC2 as a hobby here.
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
I'm pretty sure this is all wrong. I'm 19 and have been playing Blizzard games since 98. I do play competatively and it hasn't changed my life in any way, if anything it's made my life better. If you let the game become your reality, it might change you. I have a girlfriend, I get straight A's in my Univeristy classes, I'm tan, I have an above average ripped body.
All of what you said I have to disagree on. I plan on playing starcraft 4-6 hours a day of solid competative play.
-High productivity -Active social life (Starcraft community and real life) -Great Health (Eating right, Working out, Staying away from parties [NOT KILLING MY LIVER]) -Sexy from lots of exercize and sun ;D -Awesome girlfriend -High self esteem -Good job, Good grades
Now what you posted might of been describing you, but not most of us here imo. Try not being a jerk, it's not nice =]
I find it really hard to believe someone with high self-esteem would need to post a 4-paragraph long brag thread on an internet forum. Just wow.
4-6 hours is nothing compared to what progamers play, by the way.
On July 26 2010 07:00 iEchoic wrote: It's actually not subjective at all. Have you gone to college?
And that is subjective, because people have different interests, talents, abilities, speeds, and so forth.
And its not like you have to take a hard degree anyway.
You're just arguing semantics. Different degrees require different time commitments, you can call your local university and ask them and they'll tell you. I can't believe I'm arguing this, Jesus.
On July 26 2010 06:42 superbabosheki wrote: For casual gamers that want to still be good at the game , 3-5 hours per day seems ideal and should be easy to fit into school/social life.
I don't believe in "progaming." The amount of time and dedication you have to put into the game is ridiculous, having to play at least 8 hours per day. Very few will make any sort of living playing this game in favor or finishing a degree or having any social life in general. There really is no stable future in playing video games.
I agree. For every one player who makes it, maybe four failed and crashed their life horribly. It just isn't something worth gambling for, not even if you know it is what you really, really want.
Honestly, if you want to be the next Flash, then you should be going 12+ hours a day. If you must be the best, then you must practice more than others. None of this "comprehension" stuff is going to get you anywhere, because if you are shooting for #1 and aren't practicing as much as you humanly can, then there is going to be someone out there who is and who will take you down on the way. Even if you want to be the next TLO/White-Ra/IdrA/anyone, I'd say a practice schedule that is near inhumane would be the only way to catch up to them.
The thing is, StarCraft is a competitive game. If you aren't #1, then you aren't a winner no matter what you tell yourself. So if you want to be #1, then you need to be practicing as much as you can because there is going to be someone who is if you don't. If you are shooting for Flash or even foreign pros, then if you don't go all in you are all out.
If you just want to be decent, then I don't see any reason why you should put yourself through misery. I myself practice only 2-3 hours a day maybe, sometimes even 0 hours if I'm busy with other stuff. Just play until you want to stop and listen to your body. It is just a game in the end.
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
I'm pretty sure this is all wrong. I'm 19 and have been playing Blizzard games since 98. I do play competatively and it hasn't changed my life in any way, if anything it's made my life better. If you let the game become your reality, it might change you. I have a girlfriend, I get straight A's in my Univeristy classes, I'm tan, I have an above average ripped body.
All of what you said I have to disagree on. I plan on playing starcraft 4-6 hours a day of solid competative play.
-High productivity -Active social life (Starcraft community and real life) -Great Health (Eating right, Working out, Staying away from parties [NOT KILLING MY LIVER]) -Sexy from lots of exercize and sun ;D -Awesome girlfriend -High self esteem -Good job, Good grades
Now what you posted might of been describing you, but not most of us here imo. Try not being a jerk, it's not nice =]
What you just said to me is that you don't play in excess, and are therefore not a victim of the problems I listed for people who DO play in excess. Try playing the game 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week instead of the 4-6 you do and you will see how real my list truly is.
What you just said to me is that you don't play in excess, and are therefore not a victim of the problems I listed for people who DO play in excess. Try playing the game 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week instead of the 4-6 you do and you will see how real my list truly is.
Wouldn't this be most Korean Pro Gamers? Just look at how they live. Isn't there even a reality show about it somewhere?
I mean, don't we already do plenty of interviews with pro gamers? How many of the sc2 beta starts are unhealthy, unproductive douchebags with horrible health problems and no life?
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
I'm pretty sure this is all wrong. I'm 19 and have been playing Blizzard games since 98. I do play competatively and it hasn't changed my life in any way, if anything it's made my life better. If you let the game become your reality, it might change you. I have a girlfriend, I get straight A's in my Univeristy classes, I'm tan, I have an above average ripped body.
All of what you said I have to disagree on. I plan on playing starcraft 4-6 hours a day of solid competative play.
-High productivity -Active social life (Starcraft community and real life) -Great Health (Eating right, Working out, Staying away from parties [NOT KILLING MY LIVER]) -Sexy from lots of exercize and sun ;D -Awesome girlfriend -High self esteem -Good job, Good grades
Now what you posted might of been describing you, but not most of us here imo. Try not being a jerk, it's not nice =]
What you just said to me is that you don't play in excess, and are therefore not a victim of the problems I listed for people who DO play in excess. Try playing the game 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week instead of the 4-6 you do and you will see how real my list truly is.
12 hours a day is for a pro gamer... someone who's life is dedicated to the game, not your average TeamLiquid member.
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
I'm pretty sure this is all wrong. I'm 19 and have been playing Blizzard games since 98. I do play competatively and it hasn't changed my life in any way, if anything it's made my life better. If you let the game become your reality, it might change you. I have a girlfriend, I get straight A's in my Univeristy classes, I'm tan, I have an above average ripped body.
All of what you said I have to disagree on. I plan on playing starcraft 4-6 hours a day of solid competative play.
-High productivity -Active social life (Starcraft community and real life) -Great Health (Eating right, Working out, Staying away from parties [NOT KILLING MY LIVER]) -Sexy from lots of exercize and sun ;D -Awesome girlfriend -High self esteem -Good job, Good grades
Now what you posted might of been describing you, but not most of us here imo. Try not being a jerk, it's not nice =]
What you just said to me is that you don't play in excess, and are therefore not a victim of the problems I listed for people who DO play in excess. Try playing the game 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week instead of the 4-6 you do and you will see how real my list truly is.
12 hours a day is for a pro gamer... someone who's life is dedicated to the game, not your average TeamLiquid member.
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
I'm pretty sure this is all wrong. I'm 19 and have been playing Blizzard games since 98. I do play competatively and it hasn't changed my life in any way, if anything it's made my life better. If you let the game become your reality, it might change you. I have a girlfriend, I get straight A's in my Univeristy classes, I'm tan, I have an above average ripped body.
All of what you said I have to disagree on. I plan on playing starcraft 4-6 hours a day of solid competative play.
-High productivity -Active social life (Starcraft community and real life) -Great Health (Eating right, Working out, Staying away from parties [NOT KILLING MY LIVER]) -Sexy from lots of exercize and sun ;D -Awesome girlfriend -High self esteem -Good job, Good grades
Now what you posted might of been describing you, but not most of us here imo. Try not being a jerk, it's not nice =]
You realize that 4-6 hours of SC2 every day is not enough to be a SC2 pro-gamer right? We are not talking about playing SC2 as a hobby here.
Obviously... anyone who plays a game for 12 hours a day cannot fit a normal life in between a 24 hour day. You are arguing about nothing.
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
I'm pretty sure this is all wrong. I'm 19 and have been playing Blizzard games since 98. I do play competatively and it hasn't changed my life in any way, if anything it's made my life better. If you let the game become your reality, it might change you. I have a girlfriend, I get straight A's in my Univeristy classes, I'm tan, I have an above average ripped body.
All of what you said I have to disagree on. I plan on playing starcraft 4-6 hours a day of solid competative play.
-High productivity -Active social life (Starcraft community and real life) -Great Health (Eating right, Working out, Staying away from parties [NOT KILLING MY LIVER]) -Sexy from lots of exercize and sun ;D -Awesome girlfriend -High self esteem -Good job, Good grades
Now what you posted might of been describing you, but not most of us here imo. Try not being a jerk, it's not nice =]
What you just said to me is that you don't play in excess, and are therefore not a victim of the problems I listed for people who DO play in excess. Try playing the game 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week instead of the 4-6 you do and you will see how real my list truly is.
12 hours a day is for a pro gamer... someone who's life is dedicated to the game, not your average TeamLiquid member.
On July 26 2010 07:05 iEchoic wrote: You're just arguing semantics. Different degrees require different time commitments, you can call your local university and ask them and they'll tell you. I can't believe I'm arguing this, Jesus.
And you're arguing nonsense.
Different people can do a given task at different speeds.
On July 26 2010 07:05 iEchoic wrote: You're just arguing semantics. Different degrees require different time commitments, you can call your local university and ask them and they'll tell you. I can't believe I'm arguing this, Jesus.
And you're arguing nonsense.
Different people can do a given task at different speeds.
Exactly. Some people can go pro playing 6-8 hours a day when others need 10-12 for example... Or if we're talking about school, that too.
On July 26 2010 07:05 iEchoic wrote: You're just arguing semantics. Different degrees require different time commitments, you can call your local university and ask them and they'll tell you. I can't believe I'm arguing this, Jesus.
And you're arguing nonsense.
Different people can do a given task at different speeds.
The degrees that I say take a lot of time require a large bulk of work which cannot be reduced significantly by understanding the material. I'm an engineering major and we're assigned things that take 4-16 hours to complete per assignment, simply because there is a lot of work. My teacher last semester would tell us how long it took him to complete the assignment, i.e. "it took me about 6 hours to finish, so I'd schedule about 8-12 for yourselves". A lot of engineering and science fields require huge time devotion unrelated to your skill/knowledge of the task.
Obviously if you don't know what you're doing, it will take longer. But you're not finishing your engineering work in 30 minutes. It's not economics. There are some degrees which force you to do a lot of work because the process develops skills. Some degrees are more focused on finding information - and if you already have that information, it will obviously be much faster.
On July 26 2010 07:17 iEchoic wrote: The degrees that I say take a lot of time require a large bulk of work which cannot be reduced significantly by understanding the material. I'm an engineering major and we're assigned things that take 4-16 hours to complete per assignment, simply because there is a lot of work. My teacher last semester would tell us how long it took him to complete the assignment, i.e. "it took me about 6 hours to finish, so I'd schedule about 8-12 for yourselves".
So what you should have said was "dont do engineering", not "IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET GOOD GRADES".
If I'm really so wrong on this, then call up some universities and tell them they've got it backwards and don't know what they're talking about, because this is standard practice.
You're talking about the very hard end of the "difficulty spectrum" of degrees. There is no reason to assume that everyone is doing such a degree. I wouldn't touch engineering with a 10 foot pole even if I had the time.
On July 26 2010 07:17 iEchoic wrote: The degrees that I say take a lot of time require a large bulk of work which cannot be reduced significantly by understanding the material. I'm an engineering major and we're assigned things that take 4-16 hours to complete per assignment, simply because there is a lot of work. My teacher last semester would tell us how long it took him to complete the assignment, i.e. "it took me about 6 hours to finish, so I'd schedule about 8-12 for yourselves".
You're talking about the very hard end of the "difficulty spectrum" of degrees. There is no reason to assume that everyone is doing such a degree. I wouldn't touch engineering with a 10 foot pole even if I had the time.
Of course not, I'm just saying that people get mislead when they see people saying they can play SC2 10 hours a day and go to college and get good grades. This may not be possible based on their degree.
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
I'm pretty sure this is all wrong. I'm 19 and have been playing Blizzard games since 98. I do play competatively and it hasn't changed my life in any way, if anything it's made my life better. If you let the game become your reality, it might change you. I have a girlfriend, I get straight A's in my Univeristy classes, I'm tan, I have an above average ripped body.
All of what you said I have to disagree on. I plan on playing starcraft 4-6 hours a day of solid competative play.
-High productivity -Active social life (Starcraft community and real life) -Great Health (Eating right, Working out, Staying away from parties [NOT KILLING MY LIVER]) -Sexy from lots of exercize and sun ;D -Awesome girlfriend -High self esteem -Good job, Good grades
Now what you posted might of been describing you, but not most of us here imo. Try not being a jerk, it's not nice =]
You realize that 4-6 hours of SC2 every day is not enough to be a SC2 pro-gamer right? We are not talking about playing SC2 as a hobby here.
Obviously... anyone who plays a game for 12 hours a day cannot fit a normal life in between a 24 hour day. You are arguing about nothing.
And your arguments are even more pointless. All of your points do not apply to someone who already is on a path to becoming a SC2 pro-gamer.
Your question is oxymoronic. What volume will determine efficiency? Volume and efficiency aren't dependant, one does not affect the other.
My advice for efficient practice (or perhaps more appropriately effective development) is to divide focus between practice, observation, analysis and dialog. If you don't practice you can't develop execution. If you don't think about what you're doing and analyze it then you for-fit the possibility of insight. If you have no insight you will find it difficult to engage in meaning full dialog. If you restrict yourself to independent development by neglecting dialog then you miss the benefit of other peoples insights. Winning is the product of combining insight and execution better then your opponent.
On July 26 2010 07:21 iEchoic wrote: Of course not, I'm just saying that people get mislead when they see people saying they can play SC2 10 hours a day and go to college and get good grades. This may not be possible based on their degree.
I think we agree now.
Well, yes. But its not a given that you can't manage an education along with 10-12 hours of SC2 per day. For some people, perhaps they will even choose their degree to enable that (hint: pick philosophy).
My point was that the idiot I initially quoted was vastly overgeneralizing on at least the two points I quoted (and really, on every point).
dont bother practicing if you dont feel like playing. You wont learn a thing. Best advice is to span it out in 2-3 hour practices 3 times a day and take 1 day off a week.
Idra says that NA players do not play enough. He may think that Koreans play too much, but that's way better than playing too little. Huk is over rated and when real players start performing and learning the game he will not stand a chance. Pro Korean players play 12-14 hours a day for a reason and if you are serious about being a pro gamer then I wouldn't suggest doing any less than 10 hours a day. But the quality of playing does matter. If you play trash then you will get no better. Find a good practice partner.
On July 26 2010 07:21 iEchoic wrote: Of course not, I'm just saying that people get mislead when they see people saying they can play SC2 10 hours a day and go to college and get good grades. This may not be possible based on their degree.
I think we agree now.
Well, yes. But its not a given that you can't manage an education along with 10-12 hours of SC2 per day. For some people, perhaps they will even choose their degree to enable that (hint: pick philosophy).
My point was that the idiot I initially quoted was vastly overgeneralizing on at least the two points I quoted (and really, on every point).
Now that we've gotten that out of the way:
Some people who have commitments like a difficult degree or a job are deterred from competing at SC2 because they cannot match the time commitments of those who do not have these real-life timesinks. Some of the people turned away may be very naturally talented. Do you think this hurts SC2's level of competition?
On July 26 2010 07:05 vindKtiv wrote: I agree. For every one player who makes it, maybe four failed and crashed their life horribly. It just isn't something worth gambling for, not even if you know it is what you really, really want.
Honestly, if you want to be the next Flash, then you should be going 12+ hours a day.
I dont believe practicing that much will help at all. I barely played SC 1, but I played alot of games growing up. I had no problems reaching platinum/diamond after a few games while people I know would use many months. So first of all natural talent is most important.
Pro's dont play soccer 12 hours a day for a reason. Dont think chess players would play all day either. The brain can only improve so much per day or something like that. Remeber that regular breaks are important. Enough sleep helps alot and exercise is good for you to stay concentrated.
Last of all: Dont forget school/friends etc.. When you get tired of SC 2, then it is good to have somthing else.
Every player is different and even then many players will peak out at their own leisure. Everyone has limits.
Sure, mass gaming helps, but that doesn't mean everyone who does will become a top player. There is no finite answer. There are many of us out there that are good and play for hours, but that doesn't mean we'll continue to grow or even reach the success of many of these guys. It takes a lot of commitment, hard work and efficient use of training time, i.e. good practice partners. Once again, the idea of you looking for some kind of ridiculous number of hours per day to play to become a top player tells me you are going about this the wrong way. Perhaps you should come up with some sort of structure and then you'll get a good idea of how many hours a day it will take you to get good. Even then, like I said before some guys will never improve beyond a certain point. In some cases, you would have to go back to the drawing board and relearn everything to even think about going beyond that certain point.
There is mass gaming for the sake of mass gaming and then there is using your practice time efficiently while mass gaming.
Let me say that practice isn't even half the battle. Coming into sc2 i could not play more then an hour or more a day... and sometimes would only play 2-3 games a day. Yet during the end of phase 2. I could still beat top players and take maps in north america. It's not all about practice and execution. At the moment there are so many strategies and things you can take advantage of. I was still a top diamond player with atleast a 70% win ratio without much practice. My friend whom I taught was also very good. Having a good mindset is all you need. As long as you enjoy playing ALOT and dont get bored easily. You already have a leg up on every talented prick there is : ) Don't get into 1 strategy syndrome. Look at the weaknesses and strengths of the strategies you do. Constantly think about what if i do this and that and this. and what u can get away with due to proper scouting. If you ever want to copy a strategy from a pro. Take the unit composition and the opening. Not the mid game and the late game. Those two periods are very subjective and usually get affected by scouting. You cant take it at face value.
On July 26 2010 07:34 StarStruck wrote: You are going about this the wrong way.
Every player is different and even then many players will peak out at their own leisure. Everyone has limits.
Sure, mass gaming helps, but that doesn't mean everyone who does will become a top player. There is no finite answer. There are many of us out there that are good and play for hours, but that doesn't mean we'll continue to grow or even reach the success of many of these guys. It takes a lot of commitment, hard work and efficient use of training time, i.e. good practice partners. Once again, the idea of you looking for some kind of ridiculous number of hours per day to play to become a top player tells me you are going about this the wrong way. Perhaps you should come up with some sort of structure and then you'll get a good idea of how many hours a day it will take you to get good. Even then, like I said before some guys will never improve beyond a certain point. In some cases, you would have to go back to the drawing board and relearn everything to even think about going beyond that certain point.
There is mass gaming for the sake of mass gaming and then there is using your practice time efficiently while mass gaming.
No, there isn't any such thing as a point where a person can no longer improve.. Theres only so much you can do in an RTS. and there is also human error. Complete noobs beat pros. It happens. figuring out why is just another learning process you go through.
On July 26 2010 07:25 iEchoic wrote: Now that we've gotten that out of the way:
Some people who have commitments like a difficult degree or a job are deterred from competing at SC2 because they cannot match the time commitments of those who do not have these real-life timesinks. Some of the people turned away may be very naturally talented. Do you think this hurts SC2's level of competition?
It quite obviously does - it cuts the population of players who are truly competing for the #1 spot, thus cutting the potential for innovation and evolution within that population.
That said, its a cost that must be borne. Any game that is sufficiently engaging so as to draw in a competitive population is going to have skills that require practice, and a game with a low skill cap (in which lower time commitments are at less of a disadvantage) will rapidly frustrate the most serious competitors.
You can either have a good competitive game, which fucks over people who dont have the time to compete in it, or you can have a bad competitive game, which lets people compete with less time commitment but pisses everyone off.
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
I'm pretty sure this is all wrong. I'm 19 and have been playing Blizzard games since 98. I do play competatively and it hasn't changed my life in any way, if anything it's made my life better. If you let the game become your reality, it might change you. I have a girlfriend, I get straight A's in my Univeristy classes, I'm tan, I have an above average ripped body.
All of what you said I have to disagree on. I plan on playing starcraft 4-6 hours a day of solid competative play.
-High productivity -Active social life (Starcraft community and real life) -Great Health (Eating right, Working out, Staying away from parties [NOT KILLING MY LIVER]) -Sexy from lots of exercize and sun ;D -Awesome girlfriend -High self esteem -Good job, Good grades
Now what you posted might of been describing you, but not most of us here imo. Try not being a jerk, it's not nice =]
What you just said to me is that you don't play in excess, and are therefore not a victim of the problems I listed for people who DO play in excess. Try playing the game 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week instead of the 4-6 you do and you will see how real my list truly is.
12 hours a day is for a pro gamer... someone who's life is dedicated to the game, not your average TeamLiquid member.
Quoting the original post:
"...To be a top of the line SC2 Pro Gamer ...."
Quoting the original post:
"How many SC2 hours/day is the most efficient?"
The topic is called "How many SC2 hours/day is the most efficient?" and the poster said, "To be a top of the line SC2 Pro Gamer, I'm on the fence what number is the "sweet spot" for me, or people in general." That means the poster wants to know how many hours he should practice per day to become a SC2 pro-gamer. So, your measly 4-6 hours of practice per day is invalid to this topic. Also, it's too early to say how many hours someone needs to become a SC2 pro-gamer since this game is not even out! Moreover, people in general do not have right ideas on how to become a SC2 pro-gamer yet.
I think 5 hours a day is more than enough at, if you spend it all actively trying to get better, and you don't fall into any progressional trapholes as you're improving.
On July 25 2010 15:15 balistix wrote: i remember day9 saying how when he practiced for some tournament in 2007, he woke up at 10 am and played until 3 am everyday and took breaks for lunch and dinner and stuff, and that's what i plan to do more or less
Sounds like a nice life...
But back to the original poster... Everyone will be different. If you don't have the skill set that you need to become a real pro then you will of course more time and then it comes down to work ethic compared to skill... kinda like idrA
I don't think you can really put a set time on how many hours you should play as then this game of Starcraft is becoming more then just a game and that becomes unhealthy.
I say.. play as much as you can.. I wasn't a SC/WC player and have improved what I would consider really fast just by being exposed to so many different things by just playing a lot.... Its impossible to lose to the same thing over and over again if your at least trying to figure out why you lost in the first place.. Pretty much every hour during phase 2 of the beta it was obvious to me that I was better than I was the previous hour.. even while the beta is down I am better than I was from watching replays and trying to understand why people do what they do in the situations they are in..
On July 26 2010 07:25 iEchoic wrote: Now that we've gotten that out of the way:
Some people who have commitments like a difficult degree or a job are deterred from competing at SC2 because they cannot match the time commitments of those who do not have these real-life timesinks. Some of the people turned away may be very naturally talented. Do you think this hurts SC2's level of competition?
You can either have a good competitive game, which fucks over people who dont have the time to compete in it, or you can have a bad competitive game, which lets people compete with less time commitment but pisses everyone off.
edit: not necessarily to you, but to anyone who wants to read a big wall of text:
I think it's possible to have a low-time-commitment game that still has a high skill cap. For instance, think about an IQ test. Now, an IQ test isn't competitive, but you could make it so by just comparing the numbers people get and determining a winner. Just bear with me for a second.
You can't really 'practice' for an IQ test. A smart person is going to beat an average-intelligence person even if they practice 12 hours a day. It's a mental process, and mental processes don't develop the same way physical ones do (by repetition & practice). However, an IQ test still has a huge skill gap.
What if, theoretically, SC2 didn't take any mechanics? What if all the units just did whatever your mind wanted them to? Let's say we're 30 years in the future and we have a brain-computer interface. Similar to dribbling a ball - when you dribble, you don't think about pushing the ball up and down. Your brain devises a strategy and dribbling automatically happens. If you wanted reaper harass to happen while in another battle, you'd decide so and it would happen subconsciously.
This is pretty similar to a competitive IQ test (although not directly testing IQ). By taking out the repetitive, muscle-memory mechanics, we've greatly reduced the amount of time needed to compete and have created a competitive game that has a high skill ceiling but a lower amount of practice required.
Before someone responds "this is stupid, we don't have brain-computer interfaces and you're just bullshitting about unrealistic garbage", we're already approaching games like this. RTS games are beginning to reduce mechanics and improve unit AI. SC1 -> SC2 is a step down this path. SC2 -> SC3 will be a step further.
I played an RTS a while back with very, very simple mechanics. APM wasn't really a big deal, and you could do about 60 APM and have enough actions to do everything you need to. However, there was still a large skill gap. Why? Because the entire defining thing between players became strategy. It was an entirely strategic game. It became similar to Chess or a competitive IQ test.
This is why I'm one of the few people on here who think that making micro easier and reducing reliance on APM is actually a good thing. We're going to be seeing games like this turn into strategic battles of wit instead of representations of mechanical practice.
//I can't wait for SC2 to come out so I can play the game instead of philosophizing on TL
On July 25 2010 15:15 balistix wrote: i remember day9 saying how when he practiced for some tournament in 2007, he woke up at 10 am and played until 3 am everyday and took breaks for lunch and dinner and stuff, and that's what i plan to do more or less
Sounds like a nice life...
But back to the original poster... Everyone will be different. If you don't have the skill set that you need to become a real pro then you will of course more time and then it comes down to work ethic compared to skill... kinda like idrA
I don't think you can really put a set time on how many hours you should play as then this game of Starcraft is becoming more then just a game and that becomes unhealthy.
When someone becomes a real pro at a game like StarCraft, then to that person, StarCraft is more than just a game; it becomes a full-time job with uncertain financial income in the future. And number of hours of practice has nothing to do with a game becoming more than just a game; becoming a pro at a game does matter with a game becoming more than just a game.
On July 26 2010 07:58 iEchoic wrote: This is why I'm one of the few people on here who think that making micro easier and reducing reliance on APM is actually a good thing. We're going to be seeing games like this turn into strategic battles of wit instead of representations of mechanical practice.
//I can't wait for SC2 to come out so I can play the game instead of philosophizing on TL
I agree completely. I wrote a massive wall of text on the continuum between execution skills and strategy skills in competitive games.
At the end of the day its a matter of opinion. Some people prefer to have a game where micro is hugely important (and thus, by corollary, strategy is less important) and others prefer the opposite. There is no real answer to which is "better".
making micro easier and reducing reliance on APM is actually a good thing. We're going to be seeing games like this turn into strategic battles of wit instead of representations of mechanical practice.
Too bad observing mechanical dominance is easier then observing mental dominance and this negative dichotomy impacts the watchability and thus the design emphasis and decision making.
On July 25 2010 15:15 balistix wrote: i remember day9 saying how when he practiced for some tournament in 2007, he woke up at 10 am and played until 3 am everyday and took breaks for lunch and dinner and stuff, and that's what i plan to do more or less
Sounds like a nice life...
But back to the original poster... Everyone will be different. If you don't have the skill set that you need to become a real pro then you will of course more time and then it comes down to work ethic compared to skill... kinda like idrA
I don't think you can really put a set time on how many hours you should play as then this game of Starcraft is becoming more then just a game and that becomes unhealthy.
When someone becomes a real pro at a game like StarCraft, then to that person, StarCraft is more than just a game; it becomes a full-time job with uncertain financial income in the future.
Becoming good enough to make a living off of SC or any game for that matter is pretty much slim to none. But if you are willing to throw that much time towards a game in hopes of meeting your goal I say kudos to you sir! But in a few years when find yourself no farther a head then you did before you started out I hope you take it better then I would.
Just think if you spent 6-8 hours (additional or new) on school or some sort of learnings to further yourself instead of a video game, how much farther in life you would go.
Don't get me wrong I'm a huge SC2 fan and I will spend a fair amount of hours on this game as well but priorities are priorities and I would honestly re-think your train of thought.
One thing about IQ scores is that you actually can improve them with practice. Many people think that the mind is unlike the body in that it cannot improve with practice but that is actually not true. Let me give you an example to help understand what I am saying.
Lets say a puny 5' 5" 110lb male wants to be a body builder. His current physical state may be due to genetics, environment (lack of nutrition and exercise), or a combination of both. His response to a change in nutrition and exercise may be very good or poor depending on several factors such as genetics. It is possible that no matter how hard he tries, he will not be able to be a competetive body builder. Its even possible that no matter how hard he tries he still looks puny just because his genetics are so bad. However, the change in lifestyle with good nutrition and exercise will still improve his body over what it was to start with.
Now lets look at a person with a 75 IQ. His current mental state may be due to genetics, environment (lack of nutrition and mentally stimulating environment), or a combination of both. His response to a change in nutrition and mental exercise may be good or poor depending on several factors such as genetics. It is possible that no matter how hard he tries, his IQ will remain lower than he likes due to factors such as genetics. However, his improved nutrition and mental exercises will improve his IQ scores over what they were baseline.
Both mental IQ and physical ability are elastic in that they can change. Generally your mental abilities are far less elastic than your physical abilities, but this does not mean they are inelastic.
Huk isn't a good player right now. He win's games, but like everybody else winning games, he's doing it through intelligent all ins and intelligent decision making, neither of which are rewarded by practice.
Personally I think two 4 hr shifts or three 3 hour shifts, with breaks for food and rest, is probably optimal and lets you have a life outside of SC assuming you don't have any other serious commitments.
Tedium isn't an issue, you need to play a game a lot to get better.
On July 26 2010 08:13 Sabresandiego wrote: One thing about IQ scores is that you actually can improve them with practice. Many people think that the mind is unlike the body in that it cannot improve with practice but that is actually not true. Let me give you an example to help understand what I am saying.
Lets say a puny 5' 5" 110lb male wants to be a body builder. His current physical state may be due to genetics, environment (lack of nutrition and exercise), or a combination of both. His response to a change in nutrition and exercise may be very good or poor depending on several factors such as genetics. It is possible that no matter how hard he tries, he will not be able to be a competetive body builder. Its even possible that no matter how hard he tries he still looks puny just because his genetics are so bad. However, the change in lifestyle with good nutrition and exercise will still improve his body over what it was to start with.
Now lets look at a person with a 75 IQ. His current mental state may be due to genetics, environment (lack of nutrition and mentally stimulating environment), or a combination of both. His response to a change in nutrition and mental exercise may be good or poor depending on several factors such as genetics. It is possible that no matter how hard he tries, his IQ will remain lower than he likes due to factors such as genetics. However, his improved nutrition and mental exercises will improve his IQ scores over what they were baseline.
You're right, 'you cannot improve IQ with practice' was a simplification. For the purpose of my argument though, it's true. Most scientists and neurologists believe that IQ is limited by genetic factors and can only be improved within constraints. This is different than practicing things like perfectly microing reapers or quickly building marines and going back to combat, though. Nearly any human being, even monkeys, can be trained to master simple mechanical tasks given enough practice time. IQ cannot be perfected (or even greatly improved) with mass practice.
Most average gamers could get to high diamond playing 12 hours a day, at least. Average-intelligence people can not get 160 IQ by practicing 12 hours a day. So, there is a key difference.
On July 26 2010 08:13 Sabresandiego wrote: Now lets look at a person with a 75 IQ. His current mental state may be due to genetics, environment (lack of nutrition and mentally stimulating environment), or a combination of both. His response to a change in nutrition and mental exercise may be good or poor depending on several factors such as genetics. It is possible that no matter how hard he tries, his IQ will remain lower than he likes due to factors such as genetics. However, his improved nutrition and mental exercises will improve his IQ scores over what they were baseline.
This is only true if the person in question is young. There is no evidence that you can improve your true IQ with practice once you're older than like 18.
I remember i was training for wcg 2007 for around 8h-10h a day. It did pay off, as unknown player was able to take 4 place so i guess at least that if you want to be something near top
Both mental IQ and physical ability are elastic in that they can change. Generally your mental abilities are far less elastic than your physical abilities, but this does not mean they are inelastic.
I'm not sure if I'm understanding all this "raise your IQ with practice," but this quote is true. There is evidence suggesting that even just living with a person with a higher IQ (i.e. spouse) will increase your IQ scores, so I would agree that mental ability is somewhat elastic. But it's obvious that there is some sort of a limitation as it would be doubtful that anyone could raise their IQ from 100 to 160, assuming that there was no environmental factor that misrepresented the initial IQ score.
Well remember what Idra has said repeatedly - foreigners never practice enough. I'd think that like 3 blocks of 2-3 hours minimum might be good, but TAKE BREAKS! Playing for 8 hours straight is just detrimental to your mental and physical health and honestly won't help you improve. The brain just shuts down its ability to learn at that point.
Even though i gave some advice on how to spend a lot of hours playing effectively i will make clear i don't reccomend it to anyone. You have to think about if you really want to spend your youth playing the game. Ask yourself these questions:
You only have this life, then that's it. You'll only be young once. Do you really want to spend your youth, while you're hot, focusing on a game 24/7 instead of having friends, perhaps a girlfriend or a boyfriend, competing in other sport just for fun?
Are you doing what you believe in, or are you settling for what you are doing? Are you settling on game because you think you can't achieve more / are too nerdy to go out and live a "normal" life? That can be overcome, but time can't go back.
On July 26 2010 08:27 kYem wrote: I remember i was training for wcg 2007 for around 8h-10h a day. It did pay off, as unknown player was able to take 4 place so i guess at least that if you want to be something near top
I hate to say it, but that means very little if you are in fact from the U.K. There are very few well really good BW players from those parts. Midian is a fantastic player, but other than him there are very few.
Duelist, don't get all sentimental on us. They will do whatever they want with their leisure time. Let them live the dream and some of them might do a okay.
With that said, you really don't need to be spending 12 hours a day practicing non-stop. In fact some really good players practice about half that and in some cases players like Mondragon have the raw talent to pick up the game and practice 4-6 hours for a few weeks before certain tourneys and they still do alright. Raw talent. ;/
On July 26 2010 08:52 Duelist wrote: competing in other sport just for fun?
You realize there are people (including me) for whom the idea of "competing for fun" is ridiculous?
I literally cannot understand people who enjoy playing a game when they aren't improving with the explicit goal of being the best player of that game in the world.
making micro easier and reducing reliance on APM is actually a good thing. We're going to be seeing games like this turn into strategic battles of wit instead of representations of mechanical practice.
Too bad observing mechanical dominance is easier then observing mental dominance and this negative dichotomy impacts the watchability and thus the design emphasis and decision making.
I seriously doubt anyone watches commentated games because they are so impressed with NonY's spamming APM or able to balance micro and macro in the heat of a battle.
This thread is just a waste, Its to much up for debate and opinion you will never be able to "perfect" a training regiment for a game to make you the (start the pokemon theme music) Very best like no one ever waaasssss! haha yeah it depends on the player where he/she wants to be and how much natural talent/intelligence you have.. I reckon someone with an 80 IQ is gunna need longer practice times to be on an even playing field with someone like me with 147 IQ becuase we just learn faster. befor anyone says anything about my grammer or spelling yeah I know its crap!.:'90
Sorry, its not just hours/day that will make you successful. Many of us could put 10 hours/day in and still not be near the top of the lists. You can practice all you want, but there comes a point where raw talent will take you to the next level. You cant just decide all of a sudden that you want to be a pro then start practicing. Doesnt work that way.
You can't put a number on it. At the point that you start to lose concentration you should stop and at least take ~30 minute break. If you still can't concentrate then you should either call it a day, or take a break of at least a couple hours. For me I can do about a 8 hours a day and not burn out. If you listen to that interview with IdrA even he says he's doing 12 hours days, but he's burning out at about 10 hours. He is required to do those 2 hours extra, but it's most likely not helping him. If you burn out at 2-4 hours I wouldn't count on making it much beyond Silver.
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
I'm pretty sure this is all wrong. I'm 19 and have been playing Blizzard games since 98. I do play competatively and it hasn't changed my life in any way, if anything it's made my life better. If you let the game become your reality, it might change you. I have a girlfriend, I get straight A's in my Univeristy classes, I'm tan, I have an above average ripped body.
All of what you said I have to disagree on. I plan on playing starcraft 4-6 hours a day of solid competative play.
-High productivity -Active social life (Starcraft community and real life) -Great Health (Eating right, Working out, Staying away from parties [NOT KILLING MY LIVER]) -Sexy from lots of exercize and sun ;D -Awesome girlfriend -High self esteem -Good job, Good grades
Now what you posted might of been describing you, but not most of us here imo. Try not being a jerk, it's not nice =]
What you just said to me is that you don't play in excess, and are therefore not a victim of the problems I listed for people who DO play in excess. Try playing the game 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week instead of the 4-6 you do and you will see how real my list truly is.
12 hours a day is for a pro gamer... someone who's life is dedicated to the game, not your average TeamLiquid member.
Quoting the original post:
"...To be a top of the line SC2 Pro Gamer ...."
Quoting the original post:
"How many SC2 hours/day is the most efficient?"
The topic is called "How many SC2 hours/day is the most efficient?" and the poster said, "To be a top of the line SC2 Pro Gamer, I'm on the fence what number is the "sweet spot" for me, or people in general." That means the poster wants to know how many hours he should practice per day to become a SC2 pro-gamer. So, your measly 4-6 hours of practice per day is invalid to this topic. Also, it's too early to say how many hours someone needs to become a SC2 pro-gamer since this game is not even out! Moreover, people in general do not have right ideas on how to become a SC2 pro-gamer yet.
You don't even know what you are talking about sir =]
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
I'm pretty sure this is all wrong. I'm 19 and have been playing Blizzard games since 98. I do play competatively and it hasn't changed my life in any way, if anything it's made my life better. If you let the game become your reality, it might change you. I have a girlfriend, I get straight A's in my Univeristy classes, I'm tan, I have an above average ripped body.
All of what you said I have to disagree on. I plan on playing starcraft 4-6 hours a day of solid competative play.
-High productivity -Active social life (Starcraft community and real life) -Great Health (Eating right, Working out, Staying away from parties [NOT KILLING MY LIVER]) -Sexy from lots of exercize and sun ;D -Awesome girlfriend -High self esteem -Good job, Good grades
Now what you posted might of been describing you, but not most of us here imo. Try not being a jerk, it's not nice =]
What you just said to me is that you don't play in excess, and are therefore not a victim of the problems I listed for people who DO play in excess. Try playing the game 12 hours a day 6-7 days a week instead of the 4-6 you do and you will see how real my list truly is.
12 hours a day is for a pro gamer... someone who's life is dedicated to the game, not your average TeamLiquid member.
Quoting the original post:
"...To be a top of the line SC2 Pro Gamer ...."
Quoting the original post:
"How many SC2 hours/day is the most efficient?"
The topic is called "How many SC2 hours/day is the most efficient?" and the poster said, "To be a top of the line SC2 Pro Gamer, I'm on the fence what number is the "sweet spot" for me, or people in general." That means the poster wants to know how many hours he should practice per day to become a SC2 pro-gamer. So, your measly 4-6 hours of practice per day is invalid to this topic. Also, it's too early to say how many hours someone needs to become a SC2 pro-gamer since this game is not even out! Moreover, people in general do not have right ideas on how to become a SC2 pro-gamer yet.
You don't even know what you are talking about sir =]
Then prove it. Actually, you are the one who doesn't even know what one's talking about. Sabresandiego actually said at the end of his first paragraph, "The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades"
But, you deviated from this Excessive Gaming idea and said instead that you only play 4-6 hours a day and gained the following:
-High productivity -Active social life (Starcraft community and real life) -Great Health (Eating right, Working out, Staying away from parties [NOT KILLING MY LIVER]) -Sexy from lots of exercize and sun ;D -Awesome girlfriend -High self esteem -Good job, Good grades
So, do you really consider 4-6 hours a day of playing SC2 as Excessive Gaming? Hell no.
On July 26 2010 08:52 Duelist wrote: Even though i gave some advice on how to spend a lot of hours playing effectively i will make clear i don't reccomend it to anyone. You have to think about if you really want to spend your youth playing the game. Ask yourself these questions:
You only have this life, then that's it. You'll only be young once. Do you really want to spend your youth, while you're hot, focusing on a game 24/7 instead of having friends, perhaps a girlfriend or a boyfriend, competing in other sport just for fun?
Are you doing what you believe in, or are you settling for what you are doing? Are you settling on game because you think you can't achieve more / are too nerdy to go out and live a "normal" life? That can be overcome, but time can't go back.
Ok I only read the first and last page of this thread, but I have to say that with the exception of Duelist up here you people are all crazy. Look, I love SC too, but are you all planning on becoming pros? How are you going to survive in life? Outside of Korea no one is making a living playing videogames. That may change with the launch of SC2 and Blizzard's supposed focus on esports, who knows, but man, all I can say is, ReMeDy, if you are 24, don't have a degree yet, have no job, live with your parents, don't have a girlfriend, and play SC 6+ hours a day, you are not setting yourself up for a very happy life ten years from now. All the rest of you shouldn't jump in here and encourage him! SC is my favorite game of all time and deserves all the success it's had, but nobody should throw their life away for it. If you are serious about going pro, then practice 12 hours a day for half a year and see where it gets you. But the fact that you would even come on this forum and ask, essentially, what the minimum amount of time is rather than just taking it on yourself to grind lends me to think you'd be better off focusing on your studies, career, and social life, and just keeping SC as a hobby.
On July 25 2010 16:18 MuTT wrote: I find it horrifying that people are actually trying to be pro gamers. Such a terrible idea! Get a degree in computer science or engineering and you will have a better income for the rest of your life with less work. Being a progamer takes the fun out of the game because you are playing because you have too. If you get burned out it must be like working 12 hours a day at any other shitty job. Let's assess the gains and risk +'s -small chance of earning 6 figure / famous among nerds -enjoy what you play (best case)
-'s - zero social life -most likely will be making less than minimum wage -not a good future for after sc2 - Most likely will postpone getting laid by years -Stressful/ not a steady income - Good chance of not liking the game you play - Cannot go on extended breaks - Competing with other people who are fanatical to get that small sum of money -list goes on and one but i don't wanna stretch this out TL;DR: Being a pro gamer is one of the worst 'careers' imaginable
You obviously never experienced this kind of activity. You wouldn't be saying this otherwise.
Also, there is no reason to not like the game you play, if you try to make a living, or at least being full time gamer in a game you don't even enjoy to the point you can play it 10+ hours a day, then yeah it's completely stupid. As stupid as working in something you don't like, it will never last long.
Edit : Dont' forget that people who actually were into some progaming carrer have a very huge credibility in the eyes of companies working in the field of video games, so they can actually work with those as they are kind of video game icons who a huge part of the gamers around the world would know. Being associated with such guys increase the company's credibility a lot, so don't worry about them. However it's true that this will be the case mostly for the very best ones, but with esports keeping growing and growing I'm not really worried about it getting recognised as a sport such as football or so.
On July 26 2010 06:45 Sabresandiego wrote: You cant convince nerds to stop gaming 8 hours a day just like you cant convince fat people to stop eating all day (trust me I have tried). The bottom line is this: Excessive Gaming has the following negative effects on most people.
-Low productivity -Poor Social Life -Poor Health -Ugly from lack of exercize and sun -No girlfriend -No self esteem -No job, bad grades
However if you dont value any of the above things than feel free to game all day long every day. Its the same with fat people. If they would rather eat whatever they want and eat all the time, rather than look good and have good health it is the choice they made. When they are in the hospital with heart disease 20 years later, they can only blame themselves. As for the gamer, when you are 40-50 and broke with no wife or gf and no longer a progamer you have only yourself to thank.
WARNING excessive gaming or any sort of ambition to become a pro gamer will lead to: -inability to read, write, or learn -inability to talk/have fun with girls -permanent depression/poor self confidence -infertility and probably aids too
seriously guy most college students that I know already work 8 hours a day while maintaining a high GPA and an active social life Replace those working hours with a gaming profession some people have inherited good financial circumstances and aren't jeopardizing themselves whatsoever by playing video games
what fucked up world do you guys live in that 6-8 hours a day is not enough to stay healthy the maximum I needed to maintain a ripped physique was 1 hour a day at the home gym (back when i cared about superficial non sense) eat and work out quickly at home and minimize your daily commute and voila you fucking magically have spare time now
You can play 10-12 hours a day and not make any progress whatsoever. Likewise, you can play 4-5 hours and make tons of progress. This is no different than trying to excel in any profession or area of expertise. You need to know how to:
1) divide your time to actually work on your short comings 2) know how to study & the best way to study (i.e. for an extreme, in calculus, someone who memorizes all the derivatives for every equation in the textbook vs someone who learns the general rule) 3) gauge your progress with feedback from others who are professionals or more experienced than you are. Because, really, forum advice can only go so far.
However, to become proficient in any skill takes a lot of long hours. It depends on how commited you are to the craft, so to speak. I'd wager 10-12 hours a day are pretty normal for starting off pro-gamers. Ask any graduate student, 10 hour days are typical. I used to work 12 hours at my lab for 5-6 days a week. After I learned the ins and outs of how to get work done in a timely and correct manner, I started working about 10 hours 5 days a week (yeah I'm a lazy grad student).
If you aren't looking to get pro-gamer status, probably 5-6 hours a day would get you pretty far (top of your division) if you aren't wasting your time and are learning from your mistakes.
btw, for people who is wondering. I started out as copper in SCII. It was only the last half month that I made it to Diamond league. At my peak I was in the top 100 best player point wise on the EU server (hovering at 600 points). I probably spent maybe 2 hours in-game each day to go from Copper to top 100.
I also find quite depressing that people are still hear screaming about how the only way to have a good an healthy life is to meet women, go to the gym and have a job. Some were also talking about lack of self esteem or whatever, but that's those guys going to the gym just to look better who have clear problems of esteem, if they don't like the way they actually are and are trying to change to something more in the norms of the cool ripped guy. Even if there are actually people who simply do it because they enjoy it, but I've seen a shitload of people going into this bandwagon full of people going to the gym to be well seen and get women.
There is no standards for a happy life, a happy life for someone could be a horrible one for anyone else, and I just can't get why people try to standardize the goals someone should have in life. If you're happy playing games 14 hours a day and enjoy it, and if it makes you happy and feel alive then go for it. If you're happy studying 14 hours a day, then go for it. If you're happy womanising all the time, then go for it. If you're happy going to the gym 2 times a day, go for it.
If there is something I've learnt in my short life, it is not to leave your dreams slip away because you forced yourself into standards people usually tell around you. You will only have painful regrets that will stay your whole life. If people say gaming won't let you have a happy life and that you won't earn enough, that you need to study etc, that's maybe true, but once you've done what people told you, and got your diplomas, your job, and earn enough to make a living, then what ?
I'm probably too young (23 recently) to tell if it would be really be like this, but even now, I've left many things because of my studies for example, and that's the most painful thing to know you've left that many awesome chances to live up to the dreams you had, for what ? To match the western standards and take the most secure road of living ? That's really sad.
On July 26 2010 11:13 cArn- wrote: I also find quite depressing that people are still hear screaming about how the only way to have a good an healthy life is to meet women, go to the gym and have a job. Some were also talking about lack of self esteem or whatever, but that's those guys going to the gym just to look better who have clear problems of esteem, if they don't like the way they actually are and are trying to change to something more in the norms of the cool ripped guy. Even if there are actually people who simply do it because they enjoy it, but I've seen a shitload of people going into this bandwagon full of people going to the gym to be well seen and get women.
There is no standards for a happy life, a happy life for someone could be a horrible one for anyone else, and I just can't get why people try to standardize the goals someone should have in life. If you're happy playing games 14 hours a day and enjoy it, and if it makes you happy and feel alive then go for it. If you're happy studying 14 hours a day, then go for it. If you're happy womanising all the time, then go for it. If you're happy going to the gym 2 times a day, go for it.
If there is something I've learnt in my short life, it is not to leave your dreams slip away because you forced yourself into standards people usually tell around you. You will only have painful regrets that will stay your whole life. If people say gaming won't let you have a happy life and that you won't earn enough, that you need to study etc, that's maybe true, but once you've done what people told you, and got your diplomas, your job, and earn enough to make a living, then what ?
I'm probably too young (23 recently) to tell if it would be really be like this, but even now, I've left many things because of my studies for example, and that's the most painful thing to know you've left that many awesome chances to live up to the dreams you had, for what ? To match the western standards and take the most secure road of living ? That's really sad.
Everyone has to settle into a boring 9-5 job and pop two children or else burn in hell!!!
for those people that have jobs out there, they should at least play like 4 hours a day if they wanna do some what good in any tournaments and other activities that awaits for sc2.
On July 26 2010 11:13 cArn- wrote: I also find quite depressing that people are still hear screaming about how the only way to have a good an healthy life is to meet women, go to the gym and have a job. Some were also talking about lack of self esteem or whatever, but that's those guys going to the gym just to look better who have clear problems of esteem, if they don't like the way they actually are and are trying to change to something more in the norms of the cool ripped guy. Even if there are actually people who simply do it because they enjoy it, but I've seen a shitload of people going into this bandwagon full of people going to the gym to be well seen and get women.
There is no standards for a happy life, a happy life for someone could be a horrible one for anyone else, and I just can't get why people try to standardize the goals someone should have in life. If you're happy playing games 14 hours a day and enjoy it, and if it makes you happy and feel alive then go for it. If you're happy studying 14 hours a day, then go for it. If you're happy womanising all the time, then go for it. If you're happy going to the gym 2 times a day, go for it.
If there is something I've learnt in my short life, it is not to leave your dreams slip away because you forced yourself into standards people usually tell around you. You will only have painful regrets that will stay your whole life. If people say gaming won't let you have a happy life and that you won't earn enough, that you need to study etc, that's maybe true, but once you've done what people told you, and got your diplomas, your job, and earn enough to make a living, then what ?
I'm probably too young (23 recently) to tell if it would be really be like this, but even now, I've left many things because of my studies for example, and that's the most painful thing to know you've left that many awesome chances to live up to the dreams you had, for what ? To match the western standards and take the most secure road of living ? That's really sad.
cArn - I completely agree! Everyone should live their life as best suits them. However, I personally believe that part of being an adult means you don't rely on other people for support. How many people do you know that can support themselves financially and still play games 14 hours a day? If you can, and that's all you want to do, more power to you. But then again: when you're still working the same shit job at 50 and you have health problems and no benefits, will gaming still be enough to make you happy?
On July 26 2010 11:13 cArn- wrote: If there is something I've learnt in my short life, it is not to leave your dreams slip away because you forced yourself into standards people usually tell around you. You will only have painful regrets that will stay your whole life. If people say gaming won't let you have a happy life and that you won't earn enough, that you need to study etc, that's maybe true, but once you've done what people told you, and got your diplomas, your job, and earn enough to make a living, then what ?
I'm probably too young (23 recently) to tell if it would be really be like this, but even now, I've left many things because of my studies for example, and that's the most painful thing to know you've left that many awesome chances to live up to the dreams you had, for what ? To match the western standards and take the most secure road of living ? That's really sad.
This isn't good advice. You make it sound like people who discourage this are dream-crushers who eat kittens for fun. Nobody is telling you not to play videogames. They're telling people not to spend 12 hours gaming and make it your only life because odds are it won't work out and you'll be worse off than you were before.
Even the successful pro gamers who rely on SC to sustain themselves are going to be out of luck once SC2 stops being a popular game or when they retire. Those skills don't carry over to anything else and they aren't making any more money than someone working at McD's.
I plan to play this game competitively, it'll just be in my spare time. The only thing people are discouraging is playing 12-16 hours a day.
On July 26 2010 11:13 cArn- wrote: If there is something I've learnt in my short life, it is not to leave your dreams slip away because you forced yourself into standards people usually tell around you. You will only have painful regrets that will stay your whole life. If people say gaming won't let you have a happy life and that you won't earn enough, that you need to study etc, that's maybe true, but once you've done what people told you, and got your diplomas, your job, and earn enough to make a living, then what ?
I'm probably too young (23 recently) to tell if it would be really be like this, but even now, I've left many things because of my studies for example, and that's the most painful thing to know you've left that many awesome chances to live up to the dreams you had, for what ? To match the western standards and take the most secure road of living ? That's really sad.
This isn't good advice. You make it sound like people who discourage this are dream-crushers who eat kittens for fun. Nobody is telling you not to play videogames. They're telling people not to spend 12 hours gaming and make it your only life because odds are it won't work out and you'll be worse off than you were before.
Even the successful pro gamers are going to be out of luck once SC2 stops being a popular game or when they retire. Those skills don't carry over to anything else and they aren't making any more money than someone working at McD's.
And thats silly, is the point.
There is no decision you can possibly make that will not render you worse-off in some way. All actions have an opportunity cost.
The only person who can ever know if gaming for 12 hours a day is a good or bad decision is the person making that decision.
On July 26 2010 11:13 cArn- wrote: If there is something I've learnt in my short life, it is not to leave your dreams slip away because you forced yourself into standards people usually tell around you. You will only have painful regrets that will stay your whole life. If people say gaming won't let you have a happy life and that you won't earn enough, that you need to study etc, that's maybe true, but once you've done what people told you, and got your diplomas, your job, and earn enough to make a living, then what ?
I'm probably too young (23 recently) to tell if it would be really be like this, but even now, I've left many things because of my studies for example, and that's the most painful thing to know you've left that many awesome chances to live up to the dreams you had, for what ? To match the western standards and take the most secure road of living ? That's really sad.
This isn't good advice. You make it sound like people who discourage this are dream-crushers who eat kittens for fun. Nobody is telling you not to play videogames. They're telling people not to spend 12 hours gaming and make it your only life because odds are it won't work out and you'll be worse off than you were before.
Even the successful pro gamers are going to be out of luck once SC2 stops being a popular game or when they retire. Those skills don't carry over to anything else and they aren't making any more money than someone working at McD's.
There is no decision you can possibly make that will not render you worse-off in some way. All actions have an opportunity cost.
Why do you make everything so subjective? There are objective realities in this world. For example, stabbing yourself in the face will render you worse-off than not stabbing yourself in the face. I could present this argument to you and you'd try to make it sound like everyone would experience this differently and everyone has their own priorities.
On July 26 2010 12:04 iEchoic wrote: Why do you make everything so subjective?
Because it is.
There are objective realities in this world. For example, stabbing yourself in the face will render you worse-off than not stabbing yourself in the face.
Not if you want to kill yourself? Not if you enjoy pain/self-mutilation?
I could present this argument to you and you'd try to make it sound like everyone would experience this differently and everyone has their own priorities.
It doesn't matter how ridiculous the "what if" I present is - if there exists a valid "what if", its subjective.
People think that the "pro-haters" bash pro gamer wannabes. I would also equally bash someone trying to professionally play basketball, or any other sport where 1 guy succeeds, and 25 people fail.
On the other hand, saying that playing games will suddenly make you a antisocial 40 year old virgin with 3 ears is false. I still have 2 ears.
On July 25 2010 14:59 -ReMeDy- wrote: To be a top of the line SC2 Pro Gamer, I'm on the fence what number is the "sweet spot" for me, or people in general. I'm getting varying different hours or hour assessments from different players:
I'd like to strike a balance between playing long hours, but still finding time for the gym, getting out of the house, etc. I'm currently unemployed, not married (no gf either), but I am a college student with an upcoming 12 credit hour schedule approaching in late August. I'm a 24 year old Junior and yea I live with my parents (*cue laughter*), but that saves me money and more time for SC2, so I could care less .
How many hours/day is best for a person to be VERY successful at SC2? Do you think I could possibly get away with being top 20 playing 5/hours a day if I just concentrate on US servers only?
12 credit hours? I have 18 credit hours and I will find time to workout and play SC 4 hours a day. I would say 4-6 hours is reasonable per day, it will let you take care of real life stuff and still remain competitive with everyone else. If you are a progamer I think 8-10 hours is good.
I forgot where I read this, but some respectible source did some study where the average to be "an expert" in anything took about 1000 total hours. This ranged from careers like professional classical musician, to sports athlete, to forensic scienctists. Interesting stuff.
On July 26 2010 12:16 zomgtossrush wrote: 24 hours is the clear answer.
I forgot where I read this, but some respectible source did some study where the average to be "an expert" in anything took about 1000 total hours. This ranged from careers like professional classical musician, to sports athlete, to forensic scienctists. Interesting stuff.
Hey man, people can do whatever they want in life. If eating donuts all day long is what truly makes you happy, then do it. Just dont complain when you are fat and ugly.
If gaming 12 hours a day makes you happy, then do it. Just dont complain 10 years down the road that you wasted your life in a fantasy world and have nothing to show for it.
Life is all about decisions, and decisions have consequences. In life, going for instant gratification most often results in some sort of misery later in life (when in excess). If you are ready to pay the price in the future, feel free to enjoy yourself today. If you are smart enough to realize that it is better to live a productive and balanced life than some sort of extreme, you will be happier over the long run.
On July 26 2010 12:30 Sabresandiego wrote: If your opinion is that it is better to live a productive and balanced life than some sort of extreme, you will be happier over the long run.
There is no justifying playing games 12 hours a day. It is simply bad for you in too many ways. It is physically and mentally deteriorating. It will leave you empty in the future. Once in awhile it is ok to binge on something fun, but you cannot live your life like that. You will regret it in the future and I dont care who you are.
This goes for everything, not just games. You can't have fun all day long every day without paying a hefty price for it. Its just how the world is.
i remember hearing that if something doesnt move u forward in life dont spend too much time on it. sc2 and other video games are to pass time when u have absolute nothing to do and wanna relax, so i dont recommending playing games anytime u time off just go workout, do some homework, chill with ur buddies etc. u dont wanna play like hundreds of hour of something and remember back and be like wow hundreds of my hours wasted sitting infront of a computer screen playing games, so ya thatz my 2 cents have fun in life dont over do anything dont play more than 1 hr on workdays ;D
Trust me. People justify pleasure now for misery later because they simply don't understand what sort of misery awaits them. People who borrow alot of money have this same problem. They dont realize that they have to pay the money back with interest, and see it as free money. You may think to yourself, oh yea Im willing to take the risks involved with gaming 12 hours a day because I love it so much. 10 years later, when you are paying the price and have achieved nothing in life because you were so absorbed with instant gratification, you will realize the mistake you made.
On July 26 2010 12:40 Sabresandiego wrote: Trust me. They justify the pleasure now for the misery later because they simply don't understand what sort of misery awaits them. People who borrow alot of money have this same problem. They dont realize that they have to pay the money back with interest, and see it as free money. You may think to yourself, oh yea Im willing to take the risks involved with gaming 12 hours a day because I love it so much. 10 years later, when you are paying the price and have achieved nothing in life because you were so absorbed with instant gratification, you will realize the mistake you made.
Sure, most people do that, but that doesn't mean its unjustifiable. It just means most people make mistakes when they think they've justified something.
[edit] And there really aren't that many risks for me spending 12 hours a day on SC2 atm :x
Another good example is smokers. You can talk to them when they are 20 and they will say "everyone dies anyways, and I like smoking so Im gonna keep doing it". That have justified it to themselves. 30 years later when they are in the hospital dying of cancer they realize their mistake.
Bottom line is that it is easy to justify something that gives you immediate gratification. It is much harder to look forward and realize what price comes with that pleasure.
One of the greatest quotes of all time is "All things in moderation". Play your games, have your fun, but don't do it to the exclusion of all other things. You will be much happer in the long run.
OP do whatever you need to do: Get good grades in school. Go to the gym Go out with friends
I assume you need to do these things because they were important enough to mention.
And then after you do the things you need to do, play some Starcraft 2. Why are you letting people from the internet tell you how to live your life? Unless you're playing 8-10 hours a day, you certainly don't have to worry about the "playing too much" thing.
On July 26 2010 12:35 Sabresandiego wrote: There is no justifying playing games 12 hours a day. It is simply bad for you in too many ways. It is physically and mentally deteriorating. It will leave you empty in the future. Once in awhile it is ok to binge on something fun, but you cannot live your life like that. You will regret it in the future and I dont care who you are.
This goes for everything, not just games. You can't have fun all day long every day without paying a hefty price for it. Its just how the world is.
Its bad for society. You decide whats good for you. Not everyone can be like flash or jaedong or bisu.But Whose to say they didn't have similar dreams? infact. If they had told you there goals and had expressed them here on the forums when they were young. You would be saying the same thing? Truth is. People are going to tell you not to do things because its risky. There is high risk in trying to be a pro-gamer. But dont listen to those people. If you don't take risks chances you're going to end up alot like them. Only you can determine if your successful or not or what is and what isn't an accomplishment. I'm going to tell you a secret. Be selfish. I'm sure everyone here will be quick to flame me for saying this. But it should not concern you that your not contributing as they say to society. There are invisible walls up everywhere to deter you from your path. If you want to become a pro gamer. Then do everything you can to accomplish your goal. Finding answers through your self is the only path to happiness.
The video above me is absolutely awesome. It sums up entirely what I am trying to say.
If I had kids and my son said to me he is going to be in the UFC as a pro fighter, I would say thats great. If he then said hes dropping out of school so he can train 12 hours a day I would tell him that hes a fool.
People under 20 may not understand the message or heed the warning. Sometimes the best way to learn is to screw up.
On July 26 2010 12:55 Sabresandiego wrote: If I had kids and my son said to me he is going to be in the UFC as a pro fighter, I would say thats great. If he then said hes dropping out of school so he can train 12 hours a day I would tell him that hes a fool.
If we all took the safe route, life would be rather uneventful Humans aren't logical thinkers. We think with emotion and try to entwine that with logic.. being graced with the logic to question everything... we should not forgo its use. Just by reading a post when you come to something you agree or disagree with. the logic behind it and the emotion you associate it with. That is something we should all try to understand. Its value. I hope you can understand what i'm trying to express. its not easy. oh, and i am 20 :D
If your objective is to be a progamer and earn your life, then you could do full time imo.
however, before doing so you have to be realistic too. ask yourself if you have the skills to actually perform good if you prac 6-10hours a day. Is it worth it? If so, go for it. If not, you might be wasting your time.
Sure I want to be the next flash too or even earn my life with games, but since i am only plat/low diamond player, i know that i will never achieve this dream.
If your dream is to be good at this and you have the skills for it (learn fast, already very good, etc), pursue your dream and i'll say about 6 hours a day, with specific things to do (not just ladder, but vods and perfecting builds etc).
You get ahead in life by taking calculated risks. Ofcourse there are outliers, but for the one person who actually becomes a pro gamer from playing games 12 hours a day there are thousands of people who miss out on living their lives and years later regret their decisions.
On July 26 2010 13:08 Sabresandiego wrote: You get ahead in life by taking calculated risks. Ofcourse there are outliers, but for the one person who actually becomes a pro gamer from playing games 12 hours a day there are thousands of people who miss out on living their lives and years later regret their decisions.
When people say they regret making a decision. There is usually an outline where they could have made another decision which would ideally put them in a place where they would glorify them self. However, Human nature is rather fragile. In our never ending pursuit to feel special, or successful when you reach one light there is always another light that is far brighter then the one you stand on. The point im trying to make is. You will not find one man who is content with what he has. The constant need to feel appreciated and noticed never ends. I doubt you would hear boxer or flash be content with what they have accomplished in terms of gaming. I'm sure in boxers case he wishes he had done much more. and to us to those who aspire to be like him. His status is legendary. There will probably never be another Boxer. And to all the people that wish to stand in his Light will never know he was searching for an even brighter light not content with his own. The emotions we associate with success and the emotions you your self associate with gaming and time and regret. Understanding these are important. It allows you to think with logic.
To be playing at WCG finals match.. to land a perfect Storm to kill off my opponents last units at game point.. to take off my headphones and hear the cheers from the crowd, trying to embrace everything yet part of me is still in disbelief..
Let your heart motivate you, not the words of others who only do what society tells them to.
I will be practicing as much as I can to achieve my dream.
The problem with society is everyone is too busy trying to climb the ladder that it's created a giant profit ring for colleges. Everyone and their mentally ill brother is going to college that it's destroying the prestige of having certain degrees. Then you got the whole "pay later" loan thing that doesn't come into effect until you're out of college, where it's inevitable alot of people will end up dropping out early for financial reasons regardless, now they're stuck paying off the loan with nothin to show for it. Or perhaps they made it through, now they got a degree in Chiropractic, which is "alternative medicine" (short for fake, usually), and they're stuck off paying off the loans for 10 years on a shoddy practice. Must be hard being a logical thinker and going through life knowing what you're ultimately doing is total b.s.
OP:
Get a job, work hard, come home, play hard. Devote your life ultimately to what you want to do, not what you think others want you to do. Believe it or not you will be happy, and will adapt to whatever situation you're in.
On July 26 2010 14:00 fyyer wrote: The problem with society is everyone is too busy trying to climb the ladder that it's created a giant profit ring for colleges. Everyone and their mentally ill brother is going to college that it's destroying the prestige of having certain degrees. Then you got the whole "pay later" loan thing that doesn't come into effect until you're out of college, where it's inevitable alot of people will end up dropping out early for financial reasons regardless, now they're stuck paying off the loan with nothin to show for it. Or perhaps they made it through, now they got a degree in Chiropractic, which is "alternative medicine" (short for fake, usually), and they're stuck off paying off the loans for 10 years on a shoddy practice. Must be hard being a logical thinker and going through life knowing what you're ultimately doing is total b.s.
Not sure what this rant has to do with anything. College graduates, on average, still make a load more than those with only a high school education. Going to college and making more money -> more money to do things you enjoy (this may be Starcraft) -> better than playing SC2 12 hours a day.
A good schedule, if you want to get good SC2 playtime without sacarficing odd sleeping at 4AM or so Wake up at 6AM play for6-12 hours, then you have to the rest of the day to anything you want, what I would do is 6AM to 12PM, then a couple or few hours to do w.e I want then play SC2 again by watching VODS ETC then sleep at like 10-12. That way you don't sacrifice to much sleep or like OMFG SO MUCH SC2 thing You shouldn't push yourself until you go to Korea =]
On July 26 2010 14:00 fyyer wrote: The problem with society is everyone is too busy trying to climb the ladder that it's created a giant profit ring for colleges. Everyone and their mentally ill brother is going to college that it's destroying the prestige of having certain degrees. Then you got the whole "pay later" loan thing that doesn't come into effect until you're out of college, where it's inevitable alot of people will end up dropping out early for financial reasons regardless, now they're stuck paying off the loan with nothin to show for it. Or perhaps they made it through, now they got a degree in Chiropractic, which is "alternative medicine" (short for fake, usually), and they're stuck off paying off the loans for 10 years on a shoddy practice. Must be hard being a logical thinker and going through life knowing what you're ultimately doing is total b.s.
Not sure what this rant has to do with anything. College graduates, on average, still make a load more than those with only a high school education. Going to college and making more money -> more money to do things you enjoy (this may be Starcraft) -> better than playing SC2 12 hours a day.
I'm pretty sure it has to do with the faulty idea that you can't be successful in life and enjoy it without a college degree, that is if you even get to that point and land a solid career in the field you studied. All big if's.
And it's not about SC2 12 hours a day, it's about anything you enjoy in general.
When you do something for more than 5-6 hours almost everyday it better be earning you money or some sort of certified education.
3-4 hours a day is more than enough to be a decent ladder player, but if you want to be a professional gamer you wouldn't be spending the majority of your time doing ladder games anyway but playing specific game matchups vs certain races/maps against training partners, it will take more than 6 hours at least if you want to be at that level.
If you are not Korean knowing the right people and getting into the community is the only way you will ever hope to make "real money" out of gaming, just don't expect to make that much more money than the guy that works fulltime in Wal-mart.
Don't waste yourself. Think about Starcraft 2 while not playing it, formulate strategies, tactics etc. and then use time playing to test them. Grinding away hours is meaningless without thought ~_~
Sabresandiego, you just don't get it I dont think you ever will get it
If you are basing happiness and esteem off of things such as 'achievements' and physical apperance then what you have is false happiness and security.
Take away those superficial accolades, wealth, physical looks, and everything that is based in the material world, then you'd be left a broken man. You'd be a broken man because you are incapable of coping with your own being/consciousness without little self esteem boosters like external validaters. Oh, this girl likes me > external validation > esteem rises. Oh, the world envies my excessive amounts of wealth > external validation > esteem rises. All of this is false happiness because its entirely contingent on the opinions of others.
Every single thing that you list as being important and worthwhile are all ego driven goals, none of which are necessary to one's survival. Your life's goal is clearly to appeal to the superficial egos of others. Hopefully you'll open your eyes one day and question why you are constantly dissatisfied with THE NOW. Because I can tell just by the things you say, that you are not satisfied with your life. Heres a news flash: you never will be, not because your external reality needs to change but because your internal reality does.
I guarantee that every single monk, living in a secluded monastery, is much much happier than you, while having much less.
This guy essentially says what I am trying to, but much more succinctly.
note - im definitely not of the same religion nor do I believe everything he says dogmatically
If you had what it takes to be a pro you wouldnt be asking these questions. These people gave up their lives to do what they do. Koreans quit school at young age to have this profession. You looking for balance is already an insult.
Honestly, so many posts like this, "how do I become a pro?"
Really? Where were you when bw and wc3 was big? Just because you are beating some wow players you think you have what it takes to make money from playing a video game? Get real.
On July 26 2010 14:33 billyX333 wrote: Sabresandiego, you just don't get it I dont think you ever will get it
If you are basing happiness and esteem off of things such as 'achievements' and physical apperance then what you have is false happiness and security.
Take away those superficial accolades, wealth, physical looks, and everything that is based in the material world, then you'd be left a broken man. You'd be a broken man because you are incapable of coping with your own being/consciousness without little self esteem boosters like external validaters. Oh, this girl likes me > external validation > esteem rises. Oh, the world envies my excessive amounts of wealth > external validation > esteem rises. All of this is false happiness because its entirely contingent on the opinions of others.
Every single thing that you list as being important and worthwhile are all ego driven goals, none of which are necessary to one's survival. Your life's goal is clearly to appeal to the superficial egos of others. Hopefully you'll open your eyes one day and question why you are constantly dissatisfied with THE NOW. Because I can tell just by the things you say, that you are not satisfied with your life. Heres a news flash: you never will be, not because your external reality needs to change but because your internal reality does.
I guarantee that every single monk, living in a secluded monastery, is much much happier than you, while having much less.
This guy essentially says what I am trying to, but much more succinctly.
note - im definitely not of the same religion nor do I believe everything he says dogmatically
There is definitely value in what you say and what monks believe. I'm not saying that you should derive all of your self worth from what society deems important. Lots of what monks believe has truth to it but there is one flaw in how they think, and that is the lack of ambition associated with it.
When you are content with having nothing, and do not desire anything more than you do not progress as a person or as a society. Discomfort and lack of satisfaction are actually driving forces towards progression. Therefore, being completely happy and satisfied can actually be detrimental.
A good example of this is how people become fat, unhealthy, and over weight once they are in a long term loving relationship. This is because they are happy and feel no need to work hard and stay healthy. Then when they divorce, they suddenly realize what has happened to them and find themselves back in the gym. Sometimes pain, discontent, and misery are driving forces towards positive goals.
Now I'm not saying that you should look towards what society deems being successful as your own personal model for success. But you have to realize something: There is a reason that society deems certain things successfull and certain things unsuccessful, its because history has shown certain things to create a better life for people and other things to create a worse life.
Success is different for everyone but some things are true for every human being
Pro creation: If you do not reproduce then you are biologically unsuccessful. Your genes do not continue and you are a dead end. Some people don't care, but biologically speaking you are unsuccessful. This is one reason that society views family, having a boyfriend/girlfriend or marriage, etc as a form of success.
Self sustaining: Can you survive on your own? In old times this meant being able to hunt and gather, or being useful to society in some way. In modern times it means being useful to society in some way which generates an income for yourself. If you have no income then you cannot sustain a decent life for yourself or your family. Therefore money and success are related
These are just two examples, but you can see how basic human and biologic nature greatly effects what society sees as successful.
On July 26 2010 12:55 Sabresandiego wrote: The video above me is absolutely awesome. It sums up entirely what I am trying to say.
If I had kids and my son said to me he is going to be in the UFC as a pro fighter, I would say thats great. If he then said hes dropping out of school so he can train 12 hours a day I would tell him that hes a fool.
People under 20 may not understand the message or heed the warning. Sometimes the best way to learn is to screw up.
I spent 4 solid years of my life playing bw every day (two, two year chunks). AND 5 more casually playing. =)
I am 24 and own part of 5 stores and I'll have 12 by December.
And my sons college should be payed for within the next two years.
Play all the fucking games you like man. Just the sheer willpower and mental effort to play good starcraft is enough work both mentally and physically that you will fucking smash life in the face once your done playing.
It makes you a fucking beast in the real world. I'm so macro oriented in business it is ridiculous. I own stores like I used to build hatcheries ANYWHERE,EVERYWHERE, CONSTANTLY.
Macroing five stores and 15 employees and 2 partners , 1 accountant , 5 factories, 2 shipping companies and plan forward is EASIER then starcraft.
On July 26 2010 14:33 billyX333 wrote: Sabresandiego, you just don't get it I dont think you ever will get it
If you are basing happiness and esteem off of things such as 'achievements' and physical apperance then what you have is false happiness and security.
Take away those superficial accolades, wealth, physical looks, and everything that is based in the material world, then you'd be left a broken man. You'd be a broken man because you are incapable of coping with your own being/consciousness without little self esteem boosters like external validaters. Oh, this girl likes me > external validation > esteem rises. Oh, the world envies my excessive amounts of wealth > external validation > esteem rises. All of this is false happiness because its entirely contingent on the opinions of others.
Every single thing that you list as being important and worthwhile are all ego driven goals, none of which are necessary to one's survival. Your life's goal is clearly to appeal to the superficial egos of others. Hopefully you'll open your eyes one day and question why you are constantly dissatisfied with THE NOW. Because I can tell just by the things you say, that you are not satisfied with your life. Heres a news flash: you never will be, not because your external reality needs to change but because your internal reality does.
I guarantee that every single monk, living in a secluded monastery, is much much happier than you, while having much less.
On July 26 2010 12:55 Sabresandiego wrote: The video above me is absolutely awesome. It sums up entirely what I am trying to say.
If I had kids and my son said to me he is going to be in the UFC as a pro fighter, I would say thats great. If he then said hes dropping out of school so he can train 12 hours a day I would tell him that hes a fool.
People under 20 may not understand the message or heed the warning. Sometimes the best way to learn is to screw up.
I spent 4 solid years of my life playing bw every day (two, two year chunks). AND 5 more casually playing. =)
I am 24 and own part of 5 stores and I'll have 12 by December.
And my sons college should be payed for within the next two years.
Play all the fucking games you like man. Just the sheer willpower and mental effort to play good starcraft is enough work both mentally and physically that you will fucking smash life in the face once your done playing.
It makes you a fucking beast in the real world. I'm so macro oriented in business it is ridiculous. I own stores like I used to build hatcheries ANYWHERE,EVERYWHERE, CONSTANTLY.
Macroing five stores and 15 employees and 2 partners , 1 accountant , 5 factories, 2 shipping companies and plan forward is EASIER then starcraft.
Thank god I spent years playing video games. =)
What kind of business are you in, thats quite impressive in this economy
Personally (referring to the OP). I don't think 12 credit hours is that terrible. I had a 16 credit hour schedule last semester and I still found time to play 2 hours a day. But then again I'm not trying to go pro or anything.
On July 26 2010 12:55 Sabresandiego wrote: The video above me is absolutely awesome. It sums up entirely what I am trying to say.
If I had kids and my son said to me he is going to be in the UFC as a pro fighter, I would say thats great. If he then said hes dropping out of school so he can train 12 hours a day I would tell him that hes a fool.
People under 20 may not understand the message or heed the warning. Sometimes the best way to learn is to screw up.
I spent 4 solid years of my life playing bw every day (two, two year chunks). AND 5 more casually playing. =)
I am 24 and own part of 5 stores and I'll have 12 by December.
And my sons college should be payed for within the next two years.
Play all the fucking games you like man. Just the sheer willpower and mental effort to play good starcraft is enough work both mentally and physically that you will fucking smash life in the face once your done playing.
It makes you a fucking beast in the real world. I'm so macro oriented in business it is ridiculous. I own stores like I used to build hatcheries ANYWHERE,EVERYWHERE, CONSTANTLY.
Macroing five stores and 15 employees and 2 partners , 1 accountant , 5 factories, 2 shipping companies and plan forward is EASIER then starcraft.
Probably mentioned already, but I would point out that with the exception of players like Idra or other ex-SC1 pros (who have seen a game like BW at in it's most developed state), I doubt many are going to be able to judge what it takes to be a "top player". Because being a top player now is meaningless--many players just haven't played enough (or at all) to allow their practice to come to fruition. As more players get into the game, the skill level is going to just going to skyrocket, and the amount of practice needed to reach it is similarly going to climb.
This is not to demean a player like HuK. He's an excellent player right now, but asking him what it would take to be a top SC2 player post-release would be like asking Yellow or Chojja in 2000 what it takes to be a player like Jaedong or Effort today. You just can't predict how far the competition is going to go.
On July 26 2010 12:55 Sabresandiego wrote: The video above me is absolutely awesome. It sums up entirely what I am trying to say.
If I had kids and my son said to me he is going to be in the UFC as a pro fighter, I would say thats great. If he then said hes dropping out of school so he can train 12 hours a day I would tell him that hes a fool.
People under 20 may not understand the message or heed the warning. Sometimes the best way to learn is to screw up.
I spent 4 solid years of my life playing bw every day (two, two year chunks). AND 5 more casually playing. =)
I am 24 and own part of 5 stores and I'll have 12 by December.
And my sons college should be payed for within the next two years.
Play all the fucking games you like man. Just the sheer willpower and mental effort to play good starcraft is enough work both mentally and physically that you will fucking smash life in the face once your done playing.
It makes you a fucking beast in the real world. I'm so macro oriented in business it is ridiculous. I own stores like I used to build hatcheries ANYWHERE,EVERYWHERE, CONSTANTLY.
Macroing five stores and 15 employees and 2 partners , 1 accountant , 5 factories, 2 shipping companies and plan forward is EASIER then starcraft.
Thank god I spent years playing video games. =)
I applaud you for getting laid at the age of 6.
Because clearly his son is of college age at RIGHT THIS MINUTE.
On July 26 2010 12:55 Sabresandiego wrote: The video above me is absolutely awesome. It sums up entirely what I am trying to say.
If I had kids and my son said to me he is going to be in the UFC as a pro fighter, I would say thats great. If he then said hes dropping out of school so he can train 12 hours a day I would tell him that hes a fool.
People under 20 may not understand the message or heed the warning. Sometimes the best way to learn is to screw up.
I spent 4 solid years of my life playing bw every day (two, two year chunks). AND 5 more casually playing. =)
I am 24 and own part of 5 stores and I'll have 12 by December.
And my sons college should be payed for within the next two years.
Play all the fucking games you like man. Just the sheer willpower and mental effort to play good starcraft is enough work both mentally and physically that you will fucking smash life in the face once your done playing.
It makes you a fucking beast in the real world. I'm so macro oriented in business it is ridiculous. I own stores like I used to build hatcheries ANYWHERE,EVERYWHERE, CONSTANTLY.
Macroing five stores and 15 employees and 2 partners , 1 accountant , 5 factories, 2 shipping companies and plan forward is EASIER then starcraft.
Thank god I spent years playing video games. =)
What kind of business are you in, thats quite impressive in this economy
On July 26 2010 14:00 fyyer wrote: The problem with society is everyone is too busy trying to climb the ladder that it's created a giant profit ring for colleges. Everyone and their mentally ill brother is going to college that it's destroying the prestige of having certain degrees. Then you got the whole "pay later" loan thing that doesn't come into effect until you're out of college, where it's inevitable alot of people will end up dropping out early for financial reasons regardless, now they're stuck paying off the loan with nothin to show for it. Or perhaps they made it through, now they got a degree in Chiropractic, which is "alternative medicine" (short for fake, usually), and they're stuck off paying off the loans for 10 years on a shoddy practice. Must be hard being a logical thinker and going through life knowing what you're ultimately doing is total b.s.
Not sure what this rant has to do with anything. College graduates, on average, still make a load more than those with only a high school education. Going to college and making more money -> more money to do things you enjoy (this may be Starcraft) -> better than playing SC2 12 hours a day.
That doesn't necessarily mean it was their college education that was responsible for their success. A lot of people who are successful after college do a lot of things outside of it. There have been people who we're doing side projects in college, found it turned out to be profitable and dropped out. A lot of disciplines teach theory/fundamentals and little practical skills (they expect you to learn that on your own). For each that is successful in their field there are 1000 others who are teaching math with an English degree.
As if everybody actually thought they were going to make money by playing SC2. Why not just play as much as possible while it's fun? As long as I don't realistically expect to become top20 world player, I'll just enjoy playing without adding extra stress by thinking I HAVE to get better or else... I'll probably play 10h+/d first month, then maybe lower a bit. This isn't in order to get a damned sponsor deal, just because playing sc2 is most fun I can think of (for something you can do constantly).
billyX333 and AttackZerg... you guys are awesome LOL i have played thousands and thousands of games of BroodWar in my life, and if i could go back and do it all over again, I'm 99% sure I would do it again, because its just the best game ever, and I really hope SC2 gets to that level too
On July 26 2010 15:33 Ouga wrote: As if everybody actually thought they were going to make money by playing SC2. Why not just play as much as possible while it's fun? As long as I don't realistically expect to become top20 world player, I'll just enjoy playing without adding extra stress by thinking I HAVE to get better or else... I'll probably play 10h+/d first month, then maybe lower a bit. This isn't in order to get a damned sponsor deal, just because playing sc2 is most fun I can think of (for something you can do constantly).
Just because you play 8 hours a day doesnt make you good at the game. No one can answer how many hours u have to play to be a pro sc2 player. I'd personally say get a life/job/girlfriend before u worry about playing 10 hours every day.
From a neuroscience perspective, you need only practice enough to get a certain specific skill down. Once you are fatigued to the point where your performance at that skill is worse, you stop. Then you sleep and let your brain consolidate that skill. This is the most effective time to muscle memory conversion.
The wisdom to know what to do and what to practice can only be achieved through experience. The only way to speed that along is to look at how other practiced people respond to expected and unexpected situations. But, to pick up on the subtlety of play also requires experience. So you really can't find a shortcut if you want to blow people's minds with your insanity and creativity, but for 99% of the population, lifestyle-altering practice is not necessary.
If I play over 8-10 hours my winning rate drops. After this I don't think that you will "learn" very much from playing, since your mind is quite the exhausted.
To optimize the learning Id say you find your own limit. Play until you reach it and then take a brake. Go on a walk, gym.. or anything other than gaming. Perhaps just cook a nice meal : D Then take some time and review those played games, what went wrong? Why did it went wrong? What could I do to prevent this with the given information? Where do I need to practice more?
I haven't read everything in this thread (sorry, too many pages); please forgive me for any redundancy.
I've had a question in my mind for months, under various shapes, reading these forums (especially seeing thousands of posts about "omgomg it's already early July, when is phase 2 gonna start?!!" and all the drama around it).
So in this thread, everyone is talking about playing 5, 6, 8, or 10h a day... That's great, especially if playing sc is your job. But I'm guessing not many of TL's members are pros, right ? So my question is, how do you manage to play so many hours daily, if it's not your job?
Note that this is NOT about saying "playing sc is lame, you should get a life", but more about "what is the typical TL user doing in life so that he can play 8h/day?".
On July 26 2010 14:33 billyX333 wrote: Sabresandiego, you just don't get it I dont think you ever will get it
If you are basing happiness and esteem off of things such as 'achievements' and physical apperance then what you have is false happiness and security.
Take away those superficial accolades, wealth, physical looks, and everything that is based in the material world, then you'd be left a broken man. You'd be a broken man because you are incapable of coping with your own being/consciousness without little self esteem boosters like external validaters. Oh, this girl likes me > external validation > esteem rises. Oh, the world envies my excessive amounts of wealth > external validation > esteem rises. All of this is false happiness because its entirely contingent on the opinions of others.
Every single thing that you list as being important and worthwhile are all ego driven goals, none of which are necessary to one's survival. Your life's goal is clearly to appeal to the superficial egos of others. Hopefully you'll open your eyes one day and question why you are constantly dissatisfied with THE NOW. Because I can tell just by the things you say, that you are not satisfied with your life. Heres a news flash: you never will be, not because your external reality needs to change but because your internal reality does.
I guarantee that every single monk, living in a secluded monastery, is much much happier than you, while having much less.
This guy essentially says what I am trying to, but much more succinctly.
note - im definitely not of the same religion nor do I believe everything he says dogmatically
So youre saying becoming independent, adding value to society, supporting a family, passing your own wisdom to the next generation, all of those achievements are 'superficial accolades' and 'based in the material world'? How can you label these very real goals and achievements 'superficial', while leaving the idea of spending hours upon hours in a virtual world unjudged? also, unless im mistaken, Sabresandiego never mentioned a single goal that was based in material value or the respect of others. He just mentioned how you would be wasting your life if you spent too much time playing games.
I know youre not specifically defending excessive gaming here. Your whole point is that people can be much happier with much less. I agree with that. However, the tone of your post seems to suggest that you think that these people are somehow "better" than those who base their lives on achievements and such. I completely disagree with that. How does being content with a mediocre life somehow make you a better person? Abraham Lincoln fought with clinical depression for most of his life. He was probably far less happy than any of us discussing this right now (plus he was shot and killed for acting on what he believed in, how much does that suck?), but he waged a campaign that reunited our nation and abolished slavery. He added HUGE value to society BECAUSE he was not content with the way things were.
If my level of satisfaction in life is based on achievement, improving myself, and adding value to society, who the hell are you to call me a 'broken man' and my goals and dreams 'superficial'? I might not be completely satisfied with my life at all times, but that is the point. If I become satisfied, that will lead to complacency. How can I hope to be all that i can be and do all that i can to my greatest potential if I become completely satisfied with what I am in the present? I have high self-esteem. I have high confidence in myself that I will make something of myself in life. However, I am unsatisfied with my life as it is because I want to get better. This is how we as humans have progressed to where we are. We have improved our quality of life because we DIDNT become satisfied with the present, and you can be sure as hell that we wont progress further by becoming "happier with less" and playing games for 10+ hours a day.
oh and PS. bringing up monks is a bad analogy. you are trying to rationalize laziness, because while monks and gamers are both happier with less, monks are still putting themselves through stress. Monks actively deprive themselves of worldly pleasures in their pursuit of enlightenment. People devoting their lives to gaming, on the other hand, are immersing themselves in their worldly pleasures.
Most efficient in terms of what? SC2 doesn't contribute towards your life and is time consuming, so if you want to maximize the efficiency in terms of your life, 0 hours is best. In terms of SC2, play until you begin to get fatigued. You can't improve if you can't focus, so the only time barrier is your level of mental strength imo.
On July 26 2010 20:54 lariat wrote: Most efficient in terms of what? SC2 doesn't contribute towards your life and is time consuming, so if you want to maximize the efficiency in terms of your life, 0 hours is best
Quoted for truth - most efficient is 0 hours.
My problem with the OP is that he wants to be the top 20 US player. Being top 20 won't net you any money (maybe less than $1000). Why don't you want to play 3-4 hours a day and be top 3000? Much more fun imo...
EPT
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