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On July 22 2010 09:51 PokePill wrote:Show nested quote +Lol. Maybe at 1900. Link your 3k rated team please? There's tons of teams of the same comp spread over the entire spectrum of ratings, obviously some are much better than others, like in anything else.
Also, if you can't see the incredibly high skill cap in these matches then you just don't get it: How is anybody who doesn't play World of Warcraft supposed to have any clue what's going on? When I watch WoW, it looks to me people are just left clicking each other and making full use of spell cooldowns while using teamwork. It also looks like all projectiles and attacks auto target. Not being sarcastic or anything, I don't have a clue what I'm watching in that video. What am I missing?
Only how the combat system works in RPG.
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I couldn't imagine two games that are more different both in terms of types of skills required and the subjective rewards for playing than Starcraft 2 and World of Warcraft. WoW is fundamentally a cooperative social game, and for it to have sustained appeal over the long run depends on having a broad network of in-game friends and contacts.
I play WoW largely for the social experience and SC2 for the competition. Fortunately, the necessary time investment to succeed at WoW is a lot less than it used to be, and a lot less than more hardcore MMOs which wouldn't really fit into my life.
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Probably the best decision of your life.
#3 is why i quit WoW too... its so effing easy and straight forward. Competitive WoW makes me laugh.
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You probably just couldn't handle not being carried by fatketo.
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On July 22 2010 08:59 Snowfield wrote:
Competitive wow rofl
6 years.. i pity you :S
WoW arena is helluva competitive at high level play. Saying otherwise just means you have no idea what you're talking about.
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On July 22 2010 09:51 PokePill wrote:Show nested quote +Lol. Maybe at 1900. Link your 3k rated team please? There's tons of teams of the same comp spread over the entire spectrum of ratings, obviously some are much better than others, like in anything else.
Also, if you can't see the incredibly high skill cap in these matches then you just don't get it: How is anybody who doesn't play World of Warcraft supposed to have any clue what's going on? When I watch WoW, it looks to me people are just left clicking each other and making full use of spell cooldowns while using teamwork. It also looks like all projectiles and attacks auto target. Not being sarcastic or anything, I don't have a clue what I'm watching in that video. What am I missing?
Unfortunately this is partly why WoW arena never quite took off as an e-sport: it was far too hard for spectators to enjoy the game. Good arena matches were a complex dance that required each player to have precise positioning and resource (mana, cooldown) management. If you did not already understand the game, even the most insanely coordinated teams would just seem like a bunch of players wildly mashing buttons.
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WoW Arena can be very intense on a high level. It has something Starcraft doesn't, which is teamwork (its a team game), thats something completely different. It's kinda odd to try to set them side by side and draw comparisons when you mostly have contrasts.
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I seriously don't understand how can so many WoW players also love SC2... One is a team oriented social life replacement, the other is a competitive solo game. And I'm not saying that WoW isn't competitive, it's just that, if you are at a level where it is competitive, you're spending faaaar too much time on a MMO lol...
EDIT: Yes, I'm biased since I can't stand MMO's
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How is anybody who doesn't play World of Warcraft supposed to have any clue what's going on? When I watch WoW, it looks to me people are just left clicking each other and making full use of spell cooldowns while using teamwork. It also looks like all projectiles and attacks auto target. Not being sarcastic or anything, I don't have a clue what I'm watching in that video
Well yeah, though I think you could say the same thing about the experience of watching a cast of a competitive Starcraft match with no knowledge of game mechanics.
(Edit: One major difference is that in Starcraft it's arguably a lot more visually obvious who's winning, which in itself is enough to account for why it's a much more successful spectator game.)
Much of the skill in WoW arena results from strict positioning and orientation requirements. Players need line of sight to their target to be able to use ranged attacks or abilities that lock another player down, while teammates need line of sight to each other to heal or cast other helpful abilities. However, line of sight to opponents can be dangerous because the opponents can take advantage of that to use their own offensive skills. Every ability has distance limitations, and some have positioning limitations (such as the need to face a target or need to be behind a target) and all three members of a team have to have a good sense for where their teammates can or should be standing.
Anyway, WoW arena is as different from Starcraft as either is from a first-person shooter. They all require different skills and success at one is not a perfect predictor of success at another. (Of course, at some level, quick decision making and fast reflexes are rewarded in all three.)
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On July 22 2010 10:07 Snuggles wrote:
WoW Arena can be very intense on a high level. It has something Starcraft doesn't, which is teamwork (its a team game), thats something completely different. It's kinda odd to try to set them side by side and draw comparisons when you mostly have contrasts.
Although sometimes I am glad that sc2 revolves around solo laddering. I'm sure all the ex-WoW arena players here have epic nerdrage stories involving their teammates.
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Good choice, just don't bring any of the WoW mentalities with you. J/k...
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80% of WoW is skilless social grinding and garbage equivalent to Farmville.
10% is high ranked hardcore PVP that surpasses anything a D/C iccup Starcraft player could possibly imagine.
The other 10% is hardcore PVE for world and server firsts that have the top guilds competing, wiping 20 times and then having the nerd of their guild comb over the combat logs for hours to see what exactly happened. Then it's back to wiping, then back to reviewing the combat logs.
After the strategies are discovered for certain encounters from those hardcore players, then the farmville players can (with a minimal amount of skill and coordination) do the encounter.
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Ok, i can understand that it is a huge step for someone to quit doing something that they've done for 6 years.
But opening a thread about it is just extremely pathetic.
Just be happy to be free from Wow.... even if SC2 is something completely different, it's definitely not smart to jump from one game to another. Especially if you seem so happy that you managed to stop gaming.
If you have this background, stop playing at all and be proud of yourself. A crack addict doesnt expect cheers from alcoholics if he promises to switch over either.
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I've never laid a finger on wow before, but thanks for turning to the dark side.
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On July 22 2010 08:50 Two wrote:
3) In WoW (if you play competatively) the skill cap isn't NEARLY as high as it is in SC2
lol so much wrong.
1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.
2.) you dont play starcraft for the skill. There is a skill mechanism for it but the cap is pretty damn low. All tournament players have perfected the skills of starcraft 2. You play starcraft 2 for the intellectual aspect. Starcraft 2 is about strategy and THINKING.
Its not about what you can do, everyone can make a probe and make a zealot, its about making it at the right time and when to make it and when not to.
If your looking for a game that doesn't require you to think and you can just rely on your skill aka dexterity play fps games.
edit: sry wow fans i forgot to mentoin in WoW you have to position yourself by right clicking A character.
Gee if that sounds like trouble what will happen when you have to positoin an army? AND MACRO?
AND THINK?
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On July 22 2010 10:12 Joseph. wrote:
80% of WoW is skilless social grinding and garbage equivalent to Farmville.
True to some extent, although the two components of that part of the game that appeal to people are the feeling of exploring a large and visually complex world and the storytelling involved in the quests, which has become a lot more deeply thought-out in the past few years. Cataclysm is retooling the bulk of the 1-60 content, and much of it looks a lot more interesting story-wise than in vanilla WoW.
After the strategies are discovered for certain encounters from those hardcore players, then the farmville players can (with a minimal amount of skill and coordination) do the encounter.
Generally, yes, although for the more difficult and tightly-tuned PvE encounters, it can take a lot of time, thought, and practice to adapt someone else's strategy to the particular group make up with which one is attempting them. I definitely do not play in a top-1000 PvE guild, but we're pretty serious, and the amount of thought and problem-solving that goes into beating a new fight can range from not much to hours of offline discussion between raids.
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10 hours on sc2 has a lot more progress than 10 on WoW, think of all the time spent (and time your saving by quitting) and invest that into a game that's going to make you feel so rewarded for doing so, you win because you are better, because you are smarter, not because your character is a higher level or better gear or spells, everyone on sc2 starts at the same place over and over thousands of times, it's all to your imagination what you do after your 6 workers are on your screen
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On July 22 2010 10:12 Joseph. wrote:
10% is high ranked hardcore PVP that surpasses anything a D/C iccup Starcraft player could possibly imagine.
Have you been a C ranked player on iccup, or even a D+? I think you underestimate just how hard it was to get to a "decent" rank on iccup, compared to the skill that WoW arenas take.
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10% is high ranked hardcore PVP that surpasses anything a D/C iccup Starcraft player could possibly imagine.
Lol this is a joke. Coming from a Deadly Gladiator warlock (quit a year ago), WoW PvP isn't very hard. Its a very flat skill curve. I'm not gonna say theirs no difference between the top player and the average gladiator, but it isn't nearly as pronounced as the difference between the top SC player and even a foreigner pro.
It takes a little bit of skill, but seriously, not that much.
1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.
Ehm I wouldn't go that far. If it were true all those...erm..."keyboard turners" (lolwat) wouldn't be perpetually crying about how their class sucks. It is easy though. Baffles me how some people can't break a decent rank if they try.
I'd say getting B- on Iccup is harder then getting #1 glad rank, and a C- is like Gladiator :/. The skillcap basically flattens at B ish, and A rank can't really exist, as the skillcap flattens by then.
I'm not really on board with "irrational" WoW hate, like the quote above. Though yeah, it isn't a super skillful game, definitely. Its main appeal is probably the sense of a self contained "world".
edit:
let me elaborate on what I'm saying. Basically I'm saying the WoW skill curve is a parabola, and by the time your at the up towards 3k range, the skill curve has already flattened to a point where improving your personal skills can only go so far. Their simply isn't as much to master. If you watch a competitive arena game and compare it to an high level but non-competitive game, their is a difference, but it isn't close to the level BW had, or even SC2. In fact, it isn't even noticeable unless your already a competent player (2k+). I certainly didn't notice until I was pushing 2400.
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On July 22 2010 09:54 trancey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2010 09:00 LumberJack wrote:BG9 or GTFO! I kid. I'm contemplating the quit as well. Its such a grind  edit: did you do the TR? Do I know you?! I swear I have to. More like Blackrock or GTFO 
probably, main is on blackrock. Sadalol
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EPT
