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Active: 587 users

Quitting WoW (after 6 years) for SC2, I LOVE IT

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:11:59
July 21 2010 23:50 GMT
#1
BEFORE READING:
This is just a little introduction about myself and why I think it is such a good idea to quit WoW for SC2. If you don't have a couple minutes to read then don't bother trolling me or anything, thank you ;D

I don't know where I should be posting this, but this looks like the best place since I am quitting WoW for Starcraft 2. If anyone cares, i'll tell you guys a little bit about my past experiences with the Blizzard games and how much I have enjoyed them.

Starcraft was THE first Blizzard game I played and the first online game I played. Never playing competatively (obviously) at such a young age. I was in love with this awesome game. A couple years later I got into Diablo - Diablo 2 - Diablo exp. Then Warcraft. Finally WoW. I started playing WoW around December 2005 (almost 6 years). I made a Rogue named Two and have played him ever since. After playing a Rogue (and only a Rogue) for almost 6 years, my skill increased due to the stupid amount of hours I put into this game. Arenas were my thing... the competative aspect of WoW. I obtained the "Gladiator" title many seasons.

The day I found out about SC2 release, I pre-ordered the game... then eventually got my beta key. I was terrible at the game and got frustrated how easily I lost. Being a Zerg player didn't make things any easier. I couldn't just block off my base and get tanks and turrets like terran could.

Anyways ~ Here are some good things about quitting WoW for SC2

1) WoW costs $15 a month
2) WoW can be highly addictive (not saying that sc2 isn't addictive)
3) In WoW (if you play competatively) the skill cap isn't NEARLY as high as it is in SC2

#3 is one of the main reasons I quit WoW. Starcraft just has a rediculously high skill cap... If you lose, you know it's because you played it wrong and NOT because your gear wasn't as good, or you were outnumbered.

I just wanted to introduce myself to the TeamLiquid members and tell you guys how much I enjoy the warm community.

Thank you so much
<2

Edit: I have not been playing WoW for exactly 6 years.. But a very long time =P
Bub
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States3518 Posts
July 21 2010 23:54 GMT
#2
Smart move. Should have quit a while ago though, save yourself a lot of time and Money. Now lets see everyone else do the same.
XK ßubonic
LumberJack
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3355 Posts
July 21 2010 23:54 GMT
#3
is your rogue on detheroc?
Man fears the darkness, and so he scrapes away at the edges of it with fire.
FubsyGamr
Profile Joined July 2010
United States212 Posts
July 21 2010 23:54 GMT
#4
I just wanted to say that I am slowly losing myself in WoW as well, especially with the SC2 Beta. My biggest issue in WoW is that I had gotten to a point where the only real way for me to progress was by spending 4 hours 4 nights a week raiding, and it wasn't even that much fun. I was completely tied down to those 16 hours a week, and most weeks I didn't get ANYTHING in return (my gear is past the need for Primo Saro's). If I wanted to log on to WoW for 20 minutes between school and work, it was pointless, as there is nothing you can do in WoW in that short amount of time. (nothing really worth doing, I should add).

However, in SC2, I absolutely can log in for 20 minutes if I want to, play a quick match, and go on my way! You don't ever get to the point where, if you don't dedicate 16 hours, you're wasting your time. I just...I love it. It's awesome.
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 21 2010 23:54 GMT
#5
Ya I am Two of Detheroc ;D

Thanks Bub!
HubertFelix
Profile Joined April 2010
France631 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-21 23:56:18
July 21 2010 23:55 GMT
#6
Hi,

I think the best reason is you will be actually playing (having fun) 100% of the time and not farming things over and over.
I suggest you this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=137290
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 21 2010 23:56 GMT
#7
On July 22 2010 08:54 Fubsywubkis wrote:
I just wanted to say that I am slowly losing myself in WoW as well, especially with the SC2 Beta. My biggest issue in WoW is that I had gotten to a point where the only real way for me to progress was by spending 4 hours 4 nights a week raiding, and it wasn't even that much fun. I was completely tied down to those 16 hours a week, and most weeks I didn't get ANYTHING in return (my gear is past the need for Primo Saro's). If I wanted to log on to WoW for 20 minutes between school and work, it was pointless, as there is nothing you can do in WoW in that short amount of time. (nothing really worth doing, I should add).

However, in SC2, I absolutely can log in for 20 minutes if I want to, play a quick match, and go on my way! You don't ever get to the point where, if you don't dedicate 16 hours, you're wasting your time. I just...I love it. It's awesome.


Very very well said! WoW is super time consuming. When you can have just as much fun or even more fun playing SC2. Raiding can be so repetative and time consuming (like you said).

SC2 is just all around a better game! (in most of our views atleast)
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-21 23:58:58
July 21 2010 23:58 GMT
#8
On July 22 2010 08:55 HubertFelix wrote:
Hi,

I think the best reason is you will be actually playing (having fun) 100% of the time and not farming things over and over.
I suggest you this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=137290


Ya I have read that already. It has A LOT of good pointers and tips. I also agree. WoW can be repetative farming and just not fun, when in SC2 you can always be having a ton of fun!!

edit: Sorry for the double post
Back
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada505 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:01:19
July 21 2010 23:58 GMT
#9
On July 22 2010 08:50 Two wrote:
Starcraft just has a rediculously high skill cap... If you lose, you know it's because you played it wrong and NOT because your gear wasn't as good, or you were outnumbered.


Not saying you will, but I fear most people coming here with that attitude will simply find something else to blame.

"Zerg is overpowered", "i got cheesed", "he plays more", "he must be korean"

I hope you don't fall to the dark side. Stay strong!
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-21 23:59:32
July 21 2010 23:59 GMT
#10
Competitive wow rofl

6 years.. i pity you :S
LumberJack
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3355 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:01:05
July 22 2010 00:00 GMT
#11
BG9 or GTFO!






I kid. I'm contemplating the quit as well. Its such a grind

edit: did you do the TR?
Man fears the darkness, and so he scrapes away at the edges of it with fire.
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 22 2010 00:01 GMT
#12
On July 22 2010 08:58 Back wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 08:50 Two wrote:
Starcraft just has a rediculously high skill cap... If you lose, you know it's because you played it wrong and NOT because your gear wasn't as good, or you were outnumbered.


Not saying you will, but I fear most people coming here with that attitude will simply find something else to blame.

"Zerg is overpowered", "i got cheesed", "he plays more"

I hope you don't fall to the dark side. Stay strong!


Not at all sir. After playing WoW competatively for such a long time I have learned not to blame anyone or anything but MYSELF. If I lost, it's not because, like you said, [ "Zerg is overpowered", "i got cheesed", "he plays more" ] it's because I did something wrong that gave him/her the win.
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 00:01 GMT
#13
On July 22 2010 08:59 Snowfield wrote:
Competitive wow rofl


Say what you like about it, during the first 2 seasons WoW Arena had ridiculous potential as a competitive game.
Like a G6
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
July 22 2010 00:02 GMT
#14
That's gonna change after about 10 consecutive losses to the same thing
Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
July 22 2010 00:02 GMT
#15
Congratulations on getting your life back.
Mortis
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States217 Posts
July 22 2010 00:02 GMT
#16
Good to hear. I laugh though when I hear about WoW players saying "oh I spent this much time every night raiding." If anyone was hardcore into the Final Fantasy XI end game scene, many of us would kill for 4 hours a night endgame (not discounting you WoW players, though). I finally quit the stuff. I finally realized that not only was it finally time to put down the crack that is MMOs, but it was time to reconnect with my one true love.... Starcraft
FC.Strike
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States621 Posts
July 22 2010 00:02 GMT
#17
I played WoW for two years until level 70 (TBC)

Then I got super bored with the game so I started botting a third character to 70.

Then I was so bored with botting that I quit the game entirely.

Good riddance.
--------------------------> My Smiley Face Disagrees, Your Argument is Invalid -------------------------->
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 22 2010 00:02 GMT
#18
On July 22 2010 09:00 LumberJack wrote:
BG9 or GTFO!






I kid. I'm contemplating the quit as well. Its such a grind

edit: did you do the TR?



What's wrong with competative WoW? Arena can be quite competative, but like I said the skill cap in WoW isn't as high as SC2 is.

BG9 is overrated, I played there for a while.
I did play on the TR but my partners never played. That's another reason to quit WoW if you play competative arena! You have to rely on your partners.
juraigamer
Profile Joined July 2010
42 Posts
July 22 2010 00:02 GMT
#19
Good job freeing yourself from that game. Promote more SC2!
phrexis
Profile Joined March 2010
United States12 Posts
July 22 2010 00:03 GMT
#20
The biggest reason for me quitting WoW.

I dont have to rely on 10+ people to actually play the game.
hi
DKo
Profile Joined July 2010
United States187 Posts
July 22 2010 00:03 GMT
#21
I made the exact same decision 2 weeks ago. Doesn't it feel good?
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
July 22 2010 00:03 GMT
#22
Good for you. Anyone that is able to quit wow permanently has my respect.
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
iEngrisH
Profile Joined July 2010
United States31 Posts
July 22 2010 00:03 GMT
#23
I have almost the exact same background as you Two, except for gladiator in arena! . I think your making the right choice. ^_^
xorpwnz
Profile Joined May 2010
United States185 Posts
July 22 2010 00:04 GMT
#24
I actually quit WoW about 3 years ago and traded it for real life. And now I think I'll be trading in real life for SC2. Blast you, Blizzard!! :D
AskJoshy
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1625 Posts
July 22 2010 00:04 GMT
#25
On July 22 2010 08:54 Two wrote:
Ya I am Two of Detheroc ;D

Thanks Bub!


Pretty sure I was the first troll priest to 60 on Detheroc. <Valen> had server firsts in Molten Core and Onyxia before server transfers basically ruined the server... you've been on Detheroc forever? O_o
Heroes, Hearthstone, and SC2 videos: http://www.youtube.com/AskJoshy
Powster
Profile Joined April 2010
United States650 Posts
July 22 2010 00:04 GMT
#26
I quit WoW at level 19 and never thought of ever in my life trying it again lol...

Reason I came to starcraft 2 is because age of empires II: age of kings is dead and SC2 is new and is similar to it.. + got tired of playing team games like HoN where I would have bad team mates when not playing with friends so now when I lose I know its cuz of me since I play 1 vs 1..
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 22 2010 00:05 GMT
#27
On July 22 2010 09:02 Wr3k wrote:
Congratulations on getting your life back.


I agree with kzn, the first 2 or 3 seasons had the most competative potential.

As for getting my life back, thanks ;D
SC2 is also less addictive (imo) as I stated earlier.
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
July 22 2010 00:05 GMT
#28
WoW is like smoking, when you do it, you think that you want it and need it, but when you quit, you realize what mistake you did earlier.
Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:07:05
July 22 2010 00:06 GMT
#29
On July 22 2010 09:03 phrexis wrote:
The biggest reason for me quitting WoW.

I dont have to rely on 10+ people to actually play the game.


My god... when I still played wow you had to do 25 mans to get the best shit... I absolutely hated relying on the 3-5 idiots out of the 25 man raid who would stand in the fire and fucking ruin it for everyone. I think thats why I love SC so much. I'm basically controlling those idiots as well as myself now.
DaCruise
Profile Joined July 2010
Denmark2457 Posts
July 22 2010 00:06 GMT
#30
I quitted WoW exactly 1 year ago. WotLK doesnt didnt do it for me. Blizzard turned a brilliant game into shit with that expansion. Btw if you started wow in december 2005 then how can you have played for 6 years?,,doesnt really compute.
Anyway I also like the fact that if you lose its because your opponent played better. Just like in chess. No outside factors come into play.
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 00:07 GMT
#31
25 mans were fucking easy compared to the 40 mans.

Although if you managed to get a good 40 man it was ridiculously fun.
Like a G6
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 22 2010 00:07 GMT
#32
On July 22 2010 09:04 JoshSuth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 08:54 Two wrote:
Ya I am Two of Detheroc ;D

Thanks Bub!


Pretty sure I was the first troll priest to 60 on Detheroc. <Valen> had server firsts in Molten Core and Onyxia before server transfers basically ruined the server... you've been on Detheroc forever? O_o


DKo, it does feel really good ;D

I do remember the guild Valen. I was in the guild <Murder Inc> then I was in <S E V E N> for a while. Then when BC came out I got into the PvP aspect of the game more.
unit
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2621 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:09:31
July 22 2010 00:08 GMT
#33
On July 22 2010 09:03 Whiplash wrote:
Good for you. Anyone that is able to quit wow permanently has my respect.

yea its pretty hard to do

edit:

On July 22 2010 09:06 Wr3k wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 09:03 phrexis wrote:
The biggest reason for me quitting WoW.

I dont have to rely on 10+ people to actually play the game.


My god... when I still played wow you had to do 25 mans to get the best shit... I absolutely hated relying on the 3-5 idiots out of the 25 man raid who would stand in the fire and fucking ruin it for everyone. I think thats why I love SC so much. I'm basically controlling those idiots as well as myself now.

LEROY!! JEEEEEEEENNNNNNNKKKKKKKKKKIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
eXigent.
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Canada2419 Posts
July 22 2010 00:08 GMT
#34
My brother who was SUPER addicted to WoW (2500 rated in arena) has decided after 6 years to give it up, and come play SC2. My jaw hit the floor when I heard that, as he has 4 subscriptions with various characters.
RmoteCntrld
Profile Joined June 2010
United States596 Posts
July 22 2010 00:08 GMT
#35
I quit WoW, not for SC2 but because it was boring. I haven't gone back to WoW despite multiple offers from people to raid with them because of SC2. Not surprisingly I haven't went back for the same reasons, skill cap, monthly fees, and the lack of true uniqueness that WoW offers.
Pablols
Profile Joined August 2009
Chile517 Posts
July 22 2010 00:08 GMT
#36
kudos to you, i'm glad i never got into wow i only hear bad things about it
Daniri
Profile Joined May 2007
387 Posts
July 22 2010 00:08 GMT
#37
How does the dead-end of 2005, practically 2006, to now add up to six years?
"you guys are silly lol thats why i hate you people" berserkboar
Tabbris
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Bangladesh2839 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:10:46
July 22 2010 00:09 GMT
#38
Ive quit WoW about 2 years ago for sc1. Im still insanely into SC and i havent missed WoW at all. My friends quite WoW and go back playing it again saying its impossible to quite WoW forever but SC purified me :D

Also i hated the WoW community. Especially WorldofMing. TL is the best gaming community i have ever been in and Im honored that Im a part of it
FroZeNN
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States165 Posts
July 22 2010 00:09 GMT
#39
yeah i still play wow from time to time, like now, cause SC2 is not out, but it lines up perfectly my subscription ends july 27th =). So awesome transition for me =)
"More GG More Skill" - WhiteRa
Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:10:40
July 22 2010 00:09 GMT
#40
On July 22 2010 09:07 kzn wrote:
25 mans were fucking easy compared to the 40 mans.

Although if you managed to get a good 40 man it was ridiculously fun.


Not really, I mean sure as a raid they were harder... because you had 15 more retards who can fuck it up and waste hours of your time.

The worst is when its a simple fight where there is a huge emote, like the Thadius charge... which can be tracked by 100's of mods, so that you can have giant flashing warnings on your screen that the fucking polarity changed... and you still get idiots blowing up.

That game was a major fucking source of anxiety for me. I'm so glad I don't play it anymore lol.
mufin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States616 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:12:34
July 22 2010 00:10 GMT
#41
exactly the reason I quit WoW. The competitive scene that it offered just didn't cut it for me. The balance of WoW though good is laughable when compared to SC2. WoW also restricts its balance to team play (2v2,3v3,5v5) while SC2's balance is in 1v1 where nothing but your own skill will determine if you win or lose. Their is no gear to inflate your "skill" in SC2, their are no teammates to blame your losses on or to carry you to undeserved ratings. If you succeed in SC2, its because you are a good player .
I only make 5 actions per minute. But since I use all my time deliberating and planning, my 5 actions are so brutally devastating that children cry out and grown men weep.
Bazinga
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany132 Posts
July 22 2010 00:10 GMT
#42
I'm in the exact same position as you two and i can totally understand the way you feel about wow and sc2.
I started WoW during it's beta and since then i wasted a lot of time with it, i mean it was fun and all, but besides that i most often felt obliged to the people i raided with because i didn't want to let them down in doing new bosses and such. With sc2 i can decide when and how long i want to play and it doesn't get as repetetive, i mean sure in each match there are things to be done, but during most parts of it you can try new stuff and be creative instead of following boss tactics strictly. And most importantly if you lose in a sc2 match it really is because you have done something wrong, and not because there is some douche in your group that didn't prepare adequatly for the raid. By that logic you yourself are the only one responsible for winning and for me that's much more rewarding then wow could ever be.
Slidd
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
29 Posts
July 22 2010 00:11 GMT
#43
Quit WoW aswel like the second day i played the SC2 beta.
torm
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada274 Posts
July 22 2010 00:11 GMT
#44
On July 22 2010 09:08 Daniri wrote:
How does the dead-end of 2005, practically 2006, to now add up to six years?


the same way that wow is a competative game! anyway grats on quitting wow, i think a lot of people fail to realize how successful that game is at keeping you playing.. for years.
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:15:11
July 22 2010 00:12 GMT
#45
On July 22 2010 08:59 Snowfield wrote:
Competitive wow rofl

6 years.. i pity you :S


no joke, i had a lot of fun playing in the arenas, and wow did bring my skill level up before playing starcraft again. (i never raided, just arena) I quit wow just before woltk and havn't look back.
hi
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 22 2010 00:14 GMT
#46
Thank you everyone. Quitting WoW feels so good =] Good luck to those who also quit WoW for the amazing game Starcraft2
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:15:19
July 22 2010 00:14 GMT
#47
I'm not nearly naieve enough to think I won't be buying and levelling up in Cataclysm. Too much is changing for me NOT to want to see what's up. I think SC2's ladder is just straight-up too intense for me to play on a regular basis so I don't think I'll be playing it too much online. Some games in the Beta have left me sweating godamned buckets and all-too-frequently I've been sitting up at night stressing over what I could have done differently in a losing match, or get out of bed to play just to find that same scenario again and do something different. I like to play games to the best of my ability (I'm hardcore like that) and I just can't bring myself to play it casually. What's the fun in toying with people in the Silver League when I know I could be competing in Diamond?

Long story short, I think SC2's ladder is dangerous to my mental and physiological health.
Iakya
Profile Joined July 2010
United States7 Posts
July 22 2010 00:14 GMT
#48
I started playing SC soon after BW came out after a friend introduced me to it. Having played that game for 5-6 years, when a few people I had met through playing SC started moving over to WoW I tried it out and got hooked lol. Played WoW for about 4 years from the end of vanilla to beginning of Wrath. First got really into it because of the open world and relatively casual play. Once I got to the higher levels and started interacting with a lot of other players and ultimately joining a progression raiding guild during BC, it purely was the social aspect of the game that kept me into it. The competitiveness between all of us in that guild really kept it fun until I eventually decided I was done and it wasnt for me anymore.

Since then I waited for SC2 to be released and my soul was crushed everytime I checked my email to see if I had gotten a Beta invite just to find an empty inbox. =/ Thank god for the preorder beta codes :D I'm sure many of us are in the same boat, WoW is really nearing the end IMO with how much stuff they are changing to keep the game relevent and intriguing. Oh well, we are all here now which is all that matters right?
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 22 2010 00:14 GMT
#49
On July 22 2010 09:12 stroggos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 08:59 Snowfield wrote:
Competitive wow rofl

6 years.. i pity you :S


no joke, i had a lot of fun playing in the arenas, and wow did bring my skill level up before playing starcraft again. (i never raided, just arena)


Ya the only time I raided was in vanilla. Other than that I just did Arena ;D
Daniri
Profile Joined May 2007
387 Posts
July 22 2010 00:15 GMT
#50
On July 22 2010 09:11 torm wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 09:08 Daniri wrote:
How does the dead-end of 2005, practically 2006, to now add up to six years?


the same way that wow is a competative game! anyway grats on quitting wow, i think a lot of people fail to realize how successful that game is at keeping you playing.. for years.


Or respect it for that. Hours on end of entertainment and then they basically spit on it when they finally, inevitably, burn out.
"you guys are silly lol thats why i hate you people" berserkboar
Silent12ill
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States358 Posts
July 22 2010 00:15 GMT
#51
Congrats on quitting Wow. Welcome to non-wow life.
Skee
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada702 Posts
July 22 2010 00:15 GMT
#52
Starcraft takes skill, WoW takes time consumption.
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
July 22 2010 00:15 GMT
#53
oh yeah i raided vanilla as well, naxx and aq40 was the nuts back then
hi
LumberJack
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3355 Posts
July 22 2010 00:16 GMT
#54
I've played competitive wow for years now(2.5k+), its definitely not as satisfying as sc was. I'm still not convinced SC2 is going to be as popular as SC:BW. There are alot of elements about the play i dont like. I dont like how unit composition is so important. You can double their food in army and still lose b/c you have the wrong units vs his army. I guess its just growing pains and things I'll just have to get over. I hate how i cant just make basic units as zerg/toss but terran can get away with it.
Man fears the darkness, and so he scrapes away at the edges of it with fire.
Endymion
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States3701 Posts
July 22 2010 00:17 GMT
#55
On July 22 2010 09:03 phrexis wrote:
The biggest reason for me quitting WoW.

I dont have to rely on 10+ people to actually play the game.


Bingo, there in lies the problem with WoW. It's so easy to get to 80 that anyone to do it, and you'll have to play with them. WoW is such an easy game, the only reason it's actually hard is because you have to deal with under qualified and under motivated, and somehow get them to perform decently. They should make you be a guild leader for management school, it's a lesson in dealing with incompetence.
Have you considered the MMO-Champion forum? You are just as irrational and delusional with the right portion of nostalgic populism. By the way: The old Brood War was absolutely unplayable
GiantEnemyCrab
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada503 Posts
July 22 2010 00:17 GMT
#56
from some guy on youtube saying TL sucks balls and i checked it out and loved it lol hes increasing publicity of this site
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
lFrost
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States295 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:23:59
July 22 2010 00:22 GMT
#57
On July 22 2010 08:59 Snowfield wrote:
Competitive wow rofl

6 years.. i pity you :S


actually arenas in wow does take a lot of skill and is highly competitive. getting to level 80 or raiding in wow obviously doesn't. i thought the same about wow before i played it and how it couldn't be an e-sport but it is actually pretty hard and takes a lot of skill to get high arena ratings in wow (2.4k+) with a good win %. wow arena is the only attractive part of the game to me, raiding/pve/pvp battleground/leveling is all filler stuff for noobs.
Nagano
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1157 Posts
July 22 2010 00:23 GMT
#58
There is hardly a skill ceiling on WoW, just your ability to form a team with people who have gear and basic pvp strategy. That's really it.

Poppin cooldowns, mash mash mash, he's ded lol
“The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.”
Tyri
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany453 Posts
July 22 2010 00:25 GMT
#59
On July 22 2010 09:14 Two wrote:
Thank you everyone. Quitting WoW feels so good =] Good luck to those who also quit WoW for the amazing game Starcraft2



Lol its really funny your histroy seems to be a copy of mine, like the order of gfames and the time invested in Wow and quitting it for sc2, with the only twist that I was rather in to PVE (top 5 german guild)
nothing to be too proud of, since wow Pve demands so few skill and so much time investment

I'm so happy that I quit raiding and only log in every now and then for seeing some people.. The GREATEST thing is that I could get rid of raiding scedules which frees so much time )


Props to all other people who did the same
Chylo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States220 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:38:01
July 22 2010 00:30 GMT
#60
On July 22 2010 09:23 Nagano wrote:
There is hardly a skill ceiling on WoW, just your ability to form a team with people who have gear and basic pvp strategy. That's really it.

Poppin cooldowns, mash mash mash, he's ded lol



Lol. Maybe at 1900. Link your 3k rated team please? There's tons of teams of the same comp spread over the entire spectrum of ratings, obviously some are much better than others, like in anything else.

Also, if you can't see the incredibly high skill cap in these matches then you just don't get it:
kasumimi
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Greece460 Posts
July 22 2010 00:33 GMT
#61
Playing WoW is just bad for you, I hope you never return to that life sucker game.
threehundred
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada911 Posts
July 22 2010 00:33 GMT
#62
i quit wow last year, been playing for about 3 years prior
KimTaeyeon MEDIC MU fighting! ^^;;
keV.
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3214 Posts
July 22 2010 00:35 GMT
#63
Yea yea, heard this crap before. See you all in cataclysm nerds.
"brevity is the soul of wit" - William Shakesman
Azile
Profile Joined March 2010
United States339 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:37:07
July 22 2010 00:35 GMT
#64
Lot of people talking about what they know not in here..

I would think of all the places arena would be recognized for the extremely competitive monster it is, TL would be one of them.

But then I guess it's just another thing to chalk up to the massive influx of bnet forum people here with the beta.

*buys wow*
*levels to 60*
*quits*
*posts on a forum 4 years later about how skill-less wow is*
trancey
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States430 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:39:17
July 22 2010 00:38 GMT
#65
You and me are twins, Two.

Starcraft was my first love, first online game back in 1998. I've been playing WoW competitively(Glad every season and D-Glad) and deeply involved in the community but I'm refocusing all my efforts into SC2. I canceled my WoW account and I've been playing SC2 beta religiously for the last couple months.

Cheers for a better game,

Trancey of Blackrock aka Trance
Ralek
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany82 Posts
July 22 2010 00:39 GMT
#66
I quit wow too

just hated dragging retards through an instance. Now it's just me to blame
FindingPride
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1001 Posts
July 22 2010 00:39 GMT
#67
good luck man ;D if you want to get better fast watch some day9. He's helped a lot of the people i got started on SC2.
trancey
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States430 Posts
July 22 2010 00:43 GMT
#68
On July 22 2010 09:30 Chylo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 09:23 Nagano wrote:
There is hardly a skill ceiling on WoW, just your ability to form a team with people who have gear and basic pvp strategy. That's really it.

Poppin cooldowns, mash mash mash, he's ded lol



Lol. Maybe at 1900. Link your 3k rated team please? There's tons of teams of the same comp spread over the entire spectrum of ratings, obviously some are much better than others, like in anything else.

Also, if you can't see the incredibly high skill cap in these matches then you just don't get it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x8kjlLrKu8&feature=related


^^

A lot of top WoW players also play SC2, a few of them (like mOOnglade, Xom, ViralRush, Malice, Kvz and Nadagast for example) were very high ranked throughout the stages of Beta. I hope someone from the competitive wow scene makes it big in sc2... Plus ITSMEJP started out in casting in WoW too.. ^_^
NIJ
Profile Joined March 2010
1012 Posts
July 22 2010 00:44 GMT
#69
Competitive wow was never worth it imo. Too many ridiculous hoops and attunements to jump over.

I want to play a game not pledge to a videogame fraternity.
Act of thinking logically cannot possibly be natural to the human mind. If it were, then mathematics would be everybody's easiest course at school and our species would not have taken several millennia to figure out the scientific method -NDT
Kiarip
Profile Joined August 2008
United States1835 Posts
July 22 2010 00:46 GMT
#70
WoW arena is very fun imo, and due to the teamwork-oriented style of it, it has a deceptively high skill-cap.

A lot of the problems with it has to do with that the game is supposed to be balanced around both pvp and pve, which leads to imbalances in both areas (especially pvp.) If Arena was a separate game that could be both designed and balanced solely for the purpose of PvP, and arena being competitive, it would make a great E-sport imo.
kekeque
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada68 Posts
July 22 2010 00:46 GMT
#71
that's great man, I quit wow for starcraft 2 too.. well kinda, I was waiting for starcraft 2 for many years and just happen to quit before it came out (2009ish) =P.

Wow Arena is hella fun though, I never made Glad but I got rival or something, I played a mage though so it wasn't all that easy to get glad with mage during BC and i wasn't super good, though I only did 15-30 games a week cause I wasn't one of those that wanted to do 500 games a night.
Azile
Profile Joined March 2010
United States339 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:48:20
July 22 2010 00:47 GMT
#72
On July 22 2010 09:44 NIJ wrote:
Competitive wow was never worth it imo. Too many ridiculous hoops and attunements to jump over.

I want to play a game not pledge to a videogame fraternity.


It was never worth it, because it was never balanced. It's impossible to balance for competitive PvP when you treat it like a side-show and your main focus of the game was the PvE content and keeping those players happy.

That doesn't take away from the fact that regardless of comps and counter-comps top-end arena required a lot of dedication and skill to reach and succeed at.

I always swore if they just released a "WoW: PvP Edition" without all the PvE hoops to jump through and dedicated to PvP balance I would never buy another game again.
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
July 22 2010 00:47 GMT
#73
A lot of players are leaving WoW now because it's the most boring period ever. Waiting for the next addon without nothing new to do is boring as hell.
I have barely stop wow for now, i'm just waiting until Cataclysm and will play both WoW and SC2 i guess. :d
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
NarutoSC
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada30 Posts
July 22 2010 00:47 GMT
#74
wow was fun at the start. i too played it for long time. then it became a issue of being lucky and getting gear. those gear made or broke your character. your skill would only take you so far. i got tired of raiding.... none of the items i wanted dropping often... so i was like fuck it. im done with this crap. gg.
www.youtube.com/NarutoStarcraft
Shard
Profile Joined July 2010
United States20 Posts
July 22 2010 00:49 GMT
#75
Good job on quitting WoW for good. SC2 is such a better game. :D Fight the power for the swarm!<3
Beazly101
Profile Joined June 2010
United States15 Posts
July 22 2010 00:50 GMT
#76
I played wow for a long wile to (about 2 1/2) and i quit last sprig because i got sick of relying on people to show up for easy ____ raids a few time a week and it was more frustrating because i was one of the raid leaders of the guild. Another thing that got under my skin was the people that would show up under geared because the where to lazy to due 5 mans or try to at least gear their self, and expect to raid. it drove my love for the game out of me over time and it felt so good when i put my shaman to rest in his digital grave.
PokePill
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1048 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:51:58
July 22 2010 00:51 GMT
#77
Lol. Maybe at 1900. Link your 3k rated team please? There's tons of teams of the same comp spread over the entire spectrum of ratings, obviously some are much better than others, like in anything else.

Also, if you can't see the incredibly high skill cap in these matches then you just don't get it:


How is anybody who doesn't play World of Warcraft supposed to have any clue what's going on? When I watch WoW, it looks to me people are just left clicking each other and making full use of spell cooldowns while using teamwork. It also looks like all projectiles and attacks auto target. Not being sarcastic or anything, I don't have a clue what I'm watching in that video.

What am I missing?
Gnarg
Profile Joined October 2009
Netherlands165 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 00:53:37
July 22 2010 00:53 GMT
#78
I've come from a long time of playing wow as well. Its definitly alot more challenging and fun, though I do miss some of the social aspects of the game.
trancey
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States430 Posts
July 22 2010 00:54 GMT
#79
On July 22 2010 09:00 LumberJack wrote:
BG9 or GTFO!






I kid. I'm contemplating the quit as well. Its such a grind

edit: did you do the TR?


Do I know you?! I swear I have to.

More like Blackrock or GTFO
Fodder03
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada142 Posts
July 22 2010 00:54 GMT
#80
DUDE!! Two the badass rogue from detheroc?
This is Gettrolled the troll warrior
I didnt know u played this game, ill look u up on release so we can practice together, im a random player was top10 plat.
Anyway later bro <2
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
July 22 2010 00:54 GMT
#81
On July 22 2010 09:51 PokePill wrote:
Show nested quote +
Lol. Maybe at 1900. Link your 3k rated team please? There's tons of teams of the same comp spread over the entire spectrum of ratings, obviously some are much better than others, like in anything else.

Also, if you can't see the incredibly high skill cap in these matches then you just don't get it:


How is anybody who doesn't play World of Warcraft supposed to have any clue what's going on? When I watch WoW, it looks to me people are just left clicking each other and making full use of spell cooldowns while using teamwork. It also looks like all projectiles and attacks auto target. Not being sarcastic or anything, I don't have a clue what I'm watching in that video.

What am I missing?


Only how the combat system works in RPG.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
July 22 2010 00:57 GMT
#82
I couldn't imagine two games that are more different both in terms of types of skills required and the subjective rewards for playing than Starcraft 2 and World of Warcraft. WoW is fundamentally a cooperative social game, and for it to have sustained appeal over the long run depends on having a broad network of in-game friends and contacts.

I play WoW largely for the social experience and SC2 for the competition. Fortunately, the necessary time investment to succeed at WoW is a lot less than it used to be, and a lot less than more hardcore MMOs which wouldn't really fit into my life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
shape
Profile Joined December 2009
United States119 Posts
July 22 2010 01:00 GMT
#83
Probably the best decision of your life.
#3 is why i quit WoW too... its so effing easy and straight forward. Competitive WoW makes me laugh.
Suspect
Profile Joined May 2010
United States4 Posts
July 22 2010 01:01 GMT
#84
You probably just couldn't handle not being carried by fatketo.
Zato-1
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Chile4253 Posts
July 22 2010 01:02 GMT
#85
On July 22 2010 08:59 Snowfield wrote:
Competitive wow rofl

6 years.. i pity you :S

WoW arena is helluva competitive at high level play. Saying otherwise just means you have no idea what you're talking about.
Go here http://vina.biobiochile.cl/ and input the Konami Code (up up down down left right left right B A)
Jefferino
Profile Joined May 2010
United States69 Posts
July 22 2010 01:05 GMT
#86
On July 22 2010 09:51 PokePill wrote:
Show nested quote +
Lol. Maybe at 1900. Link your 3k rated team please? There's tons of teams of the same comp spread over the entire spectrum of ratings, obviously some are much better than others, like in anything else.

Also, if you can't see the incredibly high skill cap in these matches then you just don't get it:


How is anybody who doesn't play World of Warcraft supposed to have any clue what's going on? When I watch WoW, it looks to me people are just left clicking each other and making full use of spell cooldowns while using teamwork. It also looks like all projectiles and attacks auto target. Not being sarcastic or anything, I don't have a clue what I'm watching in that video.

What am I missing?


Unfortunately this is partly why WoW arena never quite took off as an e-sport: it was far too hard for spectators to enjoy the game. Good arena matches were a complex dance that required each player to have precise positioning and resource (mana, cooldown) management. If you did not already understand the game, even the most insanely coordinated teams would just seem like a bunch of players wildly mashing buttons.
Snuggles
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1865 Posts
July 22 2010 01:07 GMT
#87
WoW Arena can be very intense on a high level. It has something Starcraft doesn't, which is teamwork (its a team game), thats something completely different. It's kinda odd to try to set them side by side and draw comparisons when you mostly have contrasts.
SpavaM
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Croatia175 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 01:08:58
July 22 2010 01:07 GMT
#88
I seriously don't understand how can so many WoW players also love SC2... One is a team oriented social life replacement, the other is a competitive solo game. And I'm not saying that WoW isn't competitive, it's just that, if you are at a level where it is competitive, you're spending faaaar too much time on a MMO lol...

EDIT: Yes, I'm biased since I can't stand MMO's
aka imagiNe... "What if Nydus worms could make my coffee, play 2v2 and close threads for me? That would be grand." - riptide
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 01:11:19
July 22 2010 01:09 GMT
#89
How is anybody who doesn't play World of Warcraft supposed to have any clue what's going on? When I watch WoW, it looks to me people are just left clicking each other and making full use of spell cooldowns while using teamwork. It also looks like all projectiles and attacks auto target. Not being sarcastic or anything, I don't have a clue what I'm watching in that video


Well yeah, though I think you could say the same thing about the experience of watching a cast of a competitive Starcraft match with no knowledge of game mechanics.

(Edit: One major difference is that in Starcraft it's arguably a lot more visually obvious who's winning, which in itself is enough to account for why it's a much more successful spectator game.)

Much of the skill in WoW arena results from strict positioning and orientation requirements. Players need line of sight to their target to be able to use ranged attacks or abilities that lock another player down, while teammates need line of sight to each other to heal or cast other helpful abilities. However, line of sight to opponents can be dangerous because the opponents can take advantage of that to use their own offensive skills. Every ability has distance limitations, and some have positioning limitations (such as the need to face a target or need to be behind a target) and all three members of a team have to have a good sense for where their teammates can or should be standing.

Anyway, WoW arena is as different from Starcraft as either is from a first-person shooter. They all require different skills and success at one is not a perfect predictor of success at another. (Of course, at some level, quick decision making and fast reflexes are rewarded in all three.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Jefferino
Profile Joined May 2010
United States69 Posts
July 22 2010 01:09 GMT
#90
On July 22 2010 10:07 Snuggles wrote:
WoW Arena can be very intense on a high level. It has something Starcraft doesn't, which is teamwork (its a team game), thats something completely different. It's kinda odd to try to set them side by side and draw comparisons when you mostly have contrasts.


Although sometimes I am glad that sc2 revolves around solo laddering. I'm sure all the ex-WoW arena players here have epic nerdrage stories involving their teammates.
ckw
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1018 Posts
July 22 2010 01:09 GMT
#91
Good choice, just don't bring any of the WoW mentalities with you. J/k...
Being weak is a choice.
Joseph.
Profile Joined July 2010
United States17 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 01:12:49
July 22 2010 01:12 GMT
#92
80% of WoW is skilless social grinding and garbage equivalent to Farmville.

10% is high ranked hardcore PVP that surpasses anything a D/C iccup Starcraft player could possibly imagine.

The other 10% is hardcore PVE for world and server firsts that have the top guilds competing, wiping 20 times and then having the nerd of their guild comb over the combat logs for hours to see what exactly happened. Then it's back to wiping, then back to reviewing the combat logs.

After the strategies are discovered for certain encounters from those hardcore players, then the farmville players can (with a minimal amount of skill and coordination) do the encounter.
Melt
Profile Joined May 2010
Switzerland281 Posts
July 22 2010 01:12 GMT
#93
Ok, i can understand that it is a huge step for someone to quit doing something that they've done for 6 years.

But opening a thread about it is just extremely pathetic.

Just be happy to be free from Wow.... even if SC2 is something completely different, it's definitely not smart to jump from one game to another. Especially if you seem so happy that you managed to stop gaming.

If you have this background, stop playing at all and be proud of yourself. A crack addict doesnt expect cheers from alcoholics if he promises to switch over either.


ZomgTossRush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1041 Posts
July 22 2010 01:14 GMT
#94
I've never laid a finger on wow before, but thanks for turning to the dark side.
Coaching for 1v1 and Team games at Gosucoaching.com
virgozero
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada412 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 01:21:46
July 22 2010 01:18 GMT
#95
On July 22 2010 08:50 Two wrote:

3) In WoW (if you play competatively) the skill cap isn't NEARLY as high as it is in SC2

lol so much wrong.
1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.
2.) you dont play starcraft for the skill. There is a skill mechanism for it but the cap is pretty damn low. All tournament players have perfected the skills of starcraft 2. You play starcraft 2 for the intellectual aspect. Starcraft 2 is about strategy and THINKING.
Its not about what you can do, everyone can make a probe and make a zealot, its about making it at the right time and when to make it and when not to.
If your looking for a game that doesn't require you to think and you can just rely on your skill aka dexterity play fps games.


edit: sry wow fans i forgot to mentoin in WoW you have to position yourself by right clicking A character.

Gee if that sounds like trouble what will happen when you have to positoin an army? AND MACRO?
AND THINK?
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
July 22 2010 01:19 GMT
#96
On July 22 2010 10:12 Joseph. wrote:
80% of WoW is skilless social grinding and garbage equivalent to Farmville.


True to some extent, although the two components of that part of the game that appeal to people are the feeling of exploring a large and visually complex world and the storytelling involved in the quests, which has become a lot more deeply thought-out in the past few years. Cataclysm is retooling the bulk of the 1-60 content, and much of it looks a lot more interesting story-wise than in vanilla WoW.

After the strategies are discovered for certain encounters from those hardcore players, then the farmville players can (with a minimal amount of skill and coordination) do the encounter.


Generally, yes, although for the more difficult and tightly-tuned PvE encounters, it can take a lot of time, thought, and practice to adapt someone else's strategy to the particular group make up with which one is attempting them. I definitely do not play in a top-1000 PvE guild, but we're pretty serious, and the amount of thought and problem-solving that goes into beating a new fight can range from not much to hours of offline discussion between raids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Unfurl
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States272 Posts
July 22 2010 01:20 GMT
#97
10 hours on sc2 has a lot more progress than 10 on WoW, think of all the time spent (and time your saving by quitting) and invest that into a game that's going to make you feel so rewarded for doing so, you win because you are better, because you are smarter, not because your character is a higher level or better gear or spells, everyone on sc2 starts at the same place over and over thousands of times, it's all to your imagination what you do after your 6 workers are on your screen
Endymion
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States3701 Posts
July 22 2010 01:21 GMT
#98
On July 22 2010 10:12 Joseph. wrote:
10% is high ranked hardcore PVP that surpasses anything a D/C iccup Starcraft player could possibly imagine.


Have you been a C ranked player on iccup, or even a D+? I think you underestimate just how hard it was to get to a "decent" rank on iccup, compared to the skill that WoW arenas take.
Have you considered the MMO-Champion forum? You are just as irrational and delusional with the right portion of nostalgic populism. By the way: The old Brood War was absolutely unplayable
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 01:29:25
July 22 2010 01:22 GMT
#99

10% is high ranked hardcore PVP that surpasses anything a D/C iccup Starcraft player could possibly imagine.


Lol this is a joke. Coming from a Deadly Gladiator warlock (quit a year ago), WoW PvP isn't very hard. Its a very flat skill curve. I'm not gonna say theirs no difference between the top player and the average gladiator, but it isn't nearly as pronounced as the difference between the top SC player and even a foreigner pro.

It takes a little bit of skill, but seriously, not that much.


1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.


Ehm I wouldn't go that far. If it were true all those...erm..."keyboard turners" (lolwat) wouldn't be perpetually crying about how their class sucks. It is easy though. Baffles me how some people can't break a decent rank if they try.

I'd say getting B- on Iccup is harder then getting #1 glad rank, and a C- is like Gladiator :/. The skillcap basically flattens at B ish, and A rank can't really exist, as the skillcap flattens by then.


I'm not really on board with "irrational" WoW hate, like the quote above. Though yeah, it isn't a super skillful game, definitely. Its main appeal is probably the sense of a self contained "world".


edit:

let me elaborate on what I'm saying. Basically I'm saying the WoW skill curve is a parabola, and by the time your at the up towards 3k range, the skill curve has already flattened to a point where improving your personal skills can only go so far. Their simply isn't as much to master. If you watch a competitive arena game and compare it to an high level but non-competitive game, their is a difference, but it isn't close to the level BW had, or even SC2. In fact, it isn't even noticeable unless your already a competent player (2k+). I certainly didn't notice until I was pushing 2400.
Too Busy to Troll!
LumberJack
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3355 Posts
July 22 2010 01:23 GMT
#100
On July 22 2010 09:54 trancey wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 09:00 LumberJack wrote:
BG9 or GTFO!






I kid. I'm contemplating the quit as well. Its such a grind

edit: did you do the TR?


Do I know you?! I swear I have to.

More like Blackrock or GTFO


probably, main is on blackrock. Sadalol
Man fears the darkness, and so he scrapes away at the edges of it with fire.
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 01:26 GMT
#101
On July 22 2010 09:38 trancey wrote:
You and me are twins, Two.

Starcraft was my first love, first online game back in 1998. I've been playing WoW competitively(Glad every season and D-Glad) and deeply involved in the community but I'm refocusing all my efforts into SC2. I canceled my WoW account and I've been playing SC2 beta religiously for the last couple months.

Cheers for a better game,

Trancey of Blackrock aka Trance


TRANCE YOU ADORABLE PANDA

<3
Like a G6
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
July 22 2010 01:26 GMT
#102
On July 22 2010 10:22 Half wrote:
Baffles me how some people can't break a decent rank if they try.


Mostly, those people (including me, when I was trying and failing at it) fail at the teamwork element of arenas, first having a strong team and second having a sense for group positioning and cooperative tactics against unpredictable human players.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 01:28:16
July 22 2010 01:27 GMT
#103
On July 22 2010 10:18 virgozero wrote:
lol so much wrong.
1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.


lol he binds his spells to f1-f12 and talks about skill
Like a G6
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 01:30:22
July 22 2010 01:27 GMT
#104
I played WoW from release until October 2009, however about a year prior to this date I stopped playing on my own account, I would just whore off other peoples and get them PR etc. I was always in top PvE guilds and also was competitve in arena (gladiator every season, on warrior or shaman.)

What drove me away from the game finally was the constant need to farm before I felt like I could compete on even footing. I loved the TR. The TR is so much fun. You login, make character, pick gear, fight. I would still probably play WoW if I could have a year round TR with small tournaments etc.

Oh and the last downside was needing to rely on other people. In SC2 I can do everything I want in a competitive arena, all by myself or with friends if I choose.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
Williowa
Profile Joined April 2010
129 Posts
July 22 2010 01:29 GMT
#105
BUT YOU WON'T GET ANY BETTER GEAR!

It's A Zergling Lester
Probe...
Profile Joined July 2010
Korea (South)22 Posts
July 22 2010 01:29 GMT
#106
I downloaded WoW, 10 day trial version. I lasted 5 minutes and I uninstalled it...just wasn't my thing.
Chylo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States220 Posts
July 22 2010 01:30 GMT
#107
On July 22 2010 09:51 PokePill wrote:
Show nested quote +
Lol. Maybe at 1900. Link your 3k rated team please? There's tons of teams of the same comp spread over the entire spectrum of ratings, obviously some are much better than others, like in anything else.

Also, if you can't see the incredibly high skill cap in these matches then you just don't get it:


How is anybody who doesn't play World of Warcraft supposed to have any clue what's going on? When I watch WoW, it looks to me people are just left clicking each other and making full use of spell cooldowns while using teamwork. It also looks like all projectiles and attacks auto target. Not being sarcastic or anything, I don't have a clue what I'm watching in that video.

What am I missing?


Sadly yes if you don't play arena at a decent level you can't really even comprehend what is going on, let alone appreciate it. (Very different from say Halo which I can watch and enjoy, though not quite fully appreciate since I don't play it)

For that matchup it's a mirror - 3 of the same class against 3 of the same class. Each class has a large variety of abilities that are offensive and defensive. Wow is very much a knowledge game like chess in many ways - you must know exactly what your opponents can and cannot do at all times. (Times 10 classes with dozens of abilities each, there's a lot to learn, let alone really understand in a real time situation) Due to the changing positions of all 6 players on the map what each person can and cannot do is different from second to second. (A mage for example cannot cast their primary damage dealing spell, frostbolt, through a wall or pillar or other large terrain)

The skill in wow arena isn't about "aim" and such things like in halo or other FPS, it's a strategy and teamwork and knowledge game, with a bit of quick reactions and good timing thrown in.

It's heavily based on teamwork. The three players must coordinate everything together in order to kill one of the opposing team's players.

Due to the vast range of abilities each class has, keeping track of 6 players each doing their own thing it is very difficult to fully comprehend what exactly is going on from a viewer's perspective.
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 01:43:38
July 22 2010 01:30 GMT
#108
On July 22 2010 10:26 azotic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 10:22 Half wrote:
Baffles me how some people can't break a decent rank if they try.


Mostly, those people (including me, when I was trying and failing at it) fail at the teamwork element of arenas, first having a strong team and second having a sense for group positioning and cooperative tactics against unpredictable human players.


Actually your probably right. I don't mean to demean you by saying that, I had a very strong partner I knew in real life (rogue, in 2s), and we'd already had a lot of experience playing competitive games together (mainly Dota, WC3)

But in terms of individual skill, its ridiculously flat. By the time I quit the only way we could tangibly and measurably improve was to synch our timings within the less then a second range.


How is anybody who doesn't play World of Warcraft supposed to have any clue what's going on? When I watch WoW, it looks to me people are just left clicking each other and making full use of spell cooldowns while using teamwork. It also looks like all projectiles and attacks auto target. Not being sarcastic or anything, I don't have a clue what I'm watching in that video.

What am I missing?


They are quite capable players, but admittedly they're playing with a game that has a low skillcap. At that point the only thing they have left to do is improve positioning, timing, and synchronization. Obviously, you won't notice their minute improvement in those feilds unless you have quite adept "WoW arena skills" yourself.

This is set in pretty stark contrast to SC, and its really how I got into the BW community, way late last summer. I was in China, and I was watching progaming matches, and even coming from someone with no experience, I could immediately see which player was better, and the sheer finesse and tactical thinking you needed to execute stuff was just so apparent. The skill curve hadn't flattened yet, so even among top players a "casual" like me could just immediately spot the differences.

<3 BW.
Too Busy to Troll!
Yuka
Profile Joined June 2010
United States133 Posts
July 22 2010 01:31 GMT
#109
I sympathize with the OP; I too started with SC/BW, moved onto to WC3 (dabbling with Diablo 2 for a stint), and picked up WoW totally on a whim on release day. Since WoW release until today, I played my warlock (my one and only character) through endless buffs, nerfs, BGs, and raid experiences.

Now with SC2 coming out, I admit I will probably for the first time NOT be among the first to race to maximum level to be in the first wave of boss killers. When Cataclysm hits, I will be happily playing SC2.
Race? No, I'm equally bad with all of them.
clik
Profile Joined May 2010
United States319 Posts
July 22 2010 01:34 GMT
#110
On July 22 2010 09:01 kzn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 08:59 Snowfield wrote:
Competitive wow rofl


Say what you like about it, during the first 2 seasons WoW Arena had ridiculous potential as a competitive game.


So true the first 2 seasons were like a dream come true for me. Then it was all down hill from there.
HYPNQT
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden14 Posts
July 22 2010 01:34 GMT
#111
I'm actually considering doing the same thing. After playing WoW pretty hardcore since 2005, I've been asking myself if it's worth continuing, I'm not finding the game as entertaining as it were a couple of years ago, and I haven't got as much time.

I started playing the SC2 beta and I fell in love with the game, and I think I'm going to transistion over to it, you don't have to spend as much time on it either, which is great.

I think I'm going to play WoW until my game-time runs out but after that I'm going to atleast take a break and see if I miss it.

Sorry for the wall of text guys.

LumberJack
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States3355 Posts
July 22 2010 01:36 GMT
#112
For all those people who say High end PvP doesnt take skill really have no idea what they are talking about. I'm talking about MLG/pro end PvP, like that video he posted. I can walk you through every single scream that was made and why it was made. There is so much going on all at once that has to be managed, its pretty intense stuff.

Is it balanced? no

Is it truly competitive like SC:BW is? no

Its as competitive as any mmo can possibly be though, and its ALOT of fun and highly addictive. Unfortunately you just cant pick it up and play it. If you want to suddently start playing Terran when you've been playing protoss, imagine having to grind it up for 4mths of leveling 4-6hrs a day every day. Then once you are level capped having to grind out your gear for another 2mths, by then the season is almost over and you have to wait for the next. Only after 6mths can you start actually competing and thats still assuming you find 2 other people with specific classes that work for the comp you want to play, with the same schedule, same skill, same gear, and competitive and compatible attitudes.

Now imagine every hit in SC2/SC:BW being variable, it could hit 99% of the time, when it does it, there is a 50% chance it will be for 2.5-3x as strong the other 50% being just normal hits. There are lots of other variables but dont translate well to RTS.

I think arena would be far better off with a TR style with no PvE gear, where people can just create their characters and just put on the gear, instead of spending their lives getting it.

Oh, and dont forget about game changing trinkets, there are trinkets in the game that you MUST have to be competitive and they can take 1-7mths of 16hrs a week of PvE grinding to get them. Yea, time sink.

SC:BW was still a time sink b/c you knew you were never going to go anywhere, you could never compete and win any money in any tournament realistically. (i happen to won alot, but thats besides the point, its the masses we are talking about). Will SC2 be the same? Is it just false hope to all non-koreans out there that they can infact be considered good? What's going to happen when the world gets ahold of the game and make us all look like nubs?
Man fears the darkness, and so he scrapes away at the edges of it with fire.
IrGameStomp
Profile Joined July 2010
United States22 Posts
July 22 2010 01:36 GMT
#113
I used to play wow too. I was getting into arenas, but became more interested in sc1. Since all I did was pvp I didn't understand why I actually played WoW. So much of that game focuses not on your skill but how much time you put into. There is also a lot of luck involved.
I random because I'm indecisive
Pebble
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany326 Posts
July 22 2010 01:37 GMT
#114
I feel I've wasted my time playing WoW.

I should've played Starcraft Broodwar for the time being and be part of the community way earlier. It's so warm and friendly. WoW-community is utter shit in comparison with tl.net, really. I feel bad for myself that I've spent so many years playing WoW when instead I could've followed progamers in South-Korea and play bw myself.

Yea that's how I see it.
3:50 PM jaedung: scouting is useless in sc2
TaaiJoeng
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Hong Kong164 Posts
July 22 2010 01:42 GMT
#115
I played WoW for and hour or two at my cousins house...I got bored lol.
I really like your name by the way, "Two" simple and short.
...but the parasites say NO!
Keldrath
Profile Joined July 2010
United States449 Posts
July 22 2010 01:42 GMT
#116
same here man, coming from a similar background as yourself, 4 years in the game and over 330 days /played but this game just offers so much more imo. not all team based, i dont have to rely on other people to have fun, i can go do it on my own and rely on myself and get as far as i can based on my own merits as a player and not be carried/held back by someone else. the scariest thing tho is making new friends. it seems like it will be very difficult to do in this game with the lack of chat channels. hopefully they get added back in quickly cause i imagine the game will be a lot more fun after meeting people to play with and talk about the game to and discuss strats and stuff. just seems like a really hard thing to get going atm.
If you want peace... prepare for war.
Chylo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States220 Posts
July 22 2010 01:42 GMT
#117
On July 22 2010 10:22 Half wrote:

Mostly, those people (including me, when I was trying and failing at it) fail at the teamwork element of arenas, first having a strong team and second having a sense for group positioning and cooperative tactics against unpredictable human players.

Actually your probably right. I don't mean to demean you by saying that, I had a very strong partner I knew in real life (rogue, in 2s), and we'd already had a lot of experience playing competitive games together (mainly Dota, WC3)

But in terms of individual skill, its ridiculously flat. By the time I quit the only way we could tangibly and measurably improve was to synch our timings within the less then a second range.


First, competitive wow arena is 3v3, not 2v2. Second, the season you got deadly glad in was by far the worst season of arena, and was defined by double dpsing blow up people comps in 2s.

I can easily understand why you think the skill cap is so low playing rogue warlock in season 5.

Finally, the skill cap is the sum total of the skill level of all 3 members of the team which combine together. It's not an individual game. You can put 3 top individuals together and make horrible teams because the personalities or styles of play don't mix.
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 01:51:22
July 22 2010 01:43 GMT
#118


First, competitive wow arena is 3v3, not 2v2. Second, the season you got deadly glad in was by far the worst season of arena, and was defined by double dpsing blow up people comps in 2s.

I can easily understand why you think the skill cap is so low playing rogue warlock in season 5.

Finally, the skill cap is the sum total of the skill level of all 3 members of the team which combine together. It's not an individual game. You can put 3 top individuals together and make horrible teams because the personalities or styles of play don't mix.



Well, I got glad in 3s too that season running warlock/rogue/priest, just not deadly cuz our priest had a very inflexible playing schedule. But yeah, I get your point, and ofc comp play is in 3s.

Anyway, I get your point. I'm not saying that WoW arena "takes no skill". Thats a silly argument. But I think its pretty self evident that it isn't nearly as deep as any other major Esport. The only reason its taken more seriously then something like, idk, Diablo 2 PvP is cuz of the funding Blizzard dumps into it (which I srsly hope they'll be applying to SC2 soon :D), and its natural audience due to its integration into the most popular MMO ever.

I mean, we can agree that the average noob who knows the bare basics of PvP and can run around in BGs and not be a total waste of space usually isn't going to "get" any Arena tourney.

At the same time, almost anyone with a bare basics knowledge of RTS is going to get why pro sc2 players are so pro. Watching pro muta micro or a pitch perfect reaver drop is something you can universally appreciate. Even in a teamwork based game, DoTA, while the laning part would be incredibly boring, good ganks or good initiations are very self-evident to the casual obserer.

In WoW, their not incredibly self evident. Why is that? Well, my perception is that WoW lacks too much mechanical skill (aiming in an FPS, micromanagement/macro management in BW). The game becomes a game of timings and tactics. You need mechanical skill because a game of tactics and timings simply is too simplistic in a real time strategy that the skill curve is destined to become flat.

A game that tries to remedy this for instance would be a game like
http://www.bloodlinechampions.com/

As it stands, while WoW does possess a significant degree of tactical skill it is not deep enough to offset the lack of mechanical skill, and as a result, the skill curve is too flat to make for a decent "esport".
Too Busy to Troll!
eNbee
Profile Joined July 2010
Belgium487 Posts
July 22 2010 01:44 GMT
#119
SC2 is like weed, wow is like heroine
hmmmm
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 01:45 GMT
#120
On July 22 2010 10:43 Half wrote:
I disagree. WoW lacks too much mechanical skill (aiming in an FPS, micromanagement/macro management in BW). The game becomes a game of timings and tactics. You need mechanical skill because a game of tactics and timings simply is too simplistic in a real time strategy that the skill curve is destined to become flat.


Irrelevant. Chess has zero mechanical skill and is a tremendous competitive game, if you like where it is on the execution/strategy continuum.

Any game that has a great deal of focus on execution (what you call mechanical skill) has a correspondingly lower focus on strategy and tactics, by necessity..
Like a G6
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 01:48:13
July 22 2010 01:45 GMT
#121
imagine having to grind it up for 4mths of leveling 4-6hrs a day every day


Blizzard has greatly reduced the time investment to level to the cap since vanilla. Those numbers sound about right for the state of the game at release, but right now, getting a new character to the level cap might be closer to 100 hours, or about 1 month of 4 hours a day.

Edit: No disrespect intended to the OP or anyone in the discussion, but I wonder whether the original post doesn't belong in a blog rather than the Starcraft 2 forum?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Torg0th
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada16 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 01:52:41
July 22 2010 01:51 GMT
#122
Sup Two <Inches long>! This is Nastygnome :p
I'm happy that some Detheroc players are swapping over . Your general behavior seems to have changed a lot since the first time I saw you on the forums LOL
DemiSe
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
883 Posts
July 22 2010 01:52 GMT
#123
I decided to quit WoW, when blizzard changed the honorsystem so every incompetent and mindfucked player could obtain my Warlord's Battlegear. The gear I had attained through playing >10 hours every day during my summerholiday together with the other 9 people of our premade. The gear I had attained through determination and hard work was up for grabs for anyone who was able to press a button to join a battleground.
Anywas...

Allow me to welcome you, Mr.Two to TL!
I'am certain that you will enjoy your stay.

Let's See Who's Stronger, Your Tricks, Or My Skills.
lu_cid
Profile Joined April 2008
United States428 Posts
July 22 2010 01:53 GMT
#124
Congrats. I personally never found wow to be terribly addictive. Guess it just wasn't my thing. I definitely have a few friends who have been playing since release, and still play to this day.
Budzlight
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States578 Posts
July 22 2010 01:53 GMT
#125
Welcome to the Sc2 community! One reason why i never played WoW is because of the p2p. And Starcraft was in my blood.
I was the 5% that voted for thorzain in the TSL for round 1
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 01:56:44
July 22 2010 01:54 GMT
#126
On July 22 2010 10:45 kzn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 10:43 Half wrote:
I disagree. WoW lacks too much mechanical skill (aiming in an FPS, micromanagement/macro management in BW). The game becomes a game of timings and tactics. You need mechanical skill because a game of tactics and timings simply is too simplistic in a real time strategy that the skill curve is destined to become flat.


Irrelevant. Chess has zero mechanical skill and is a tremendous competitive game, if you like where it is on the execution/strategy continuum.

Any game that has a great deal of focus on execution (what you call mechanical skill) has a correspondingly lower focus on strategy and tactics, by necessity..


Of course. But Chess is not a game played in real time. The rules are fundamentally different. In sole difference between an RTS and a TBS, well, obviously, is the time part, (WoW could be considered an RTS, as its core focus is on strategy, as opposed to an FPS etc), and in this structure, time becomes a resource. Mechanical skill is skill that taxes time as a resource, and in WoW, theres in an insufficient amount of it. Without it, the time you have to complete tactical tasks becomes overinflated and skill becomes a matter of perfecting the most Minuit tactical decisions. This could work if the Strategic aspect was sufficiently complex, and WoW actually has a fairly complex strategic aspect, but it simply isn't enough to compensate for the lack of mechanical skill.

imagine having to grind it up for 4mths of leveling 4-6hrs a day every day


tbh leveling was the most enjoyable part of WoW for me luls. I'm seriously considering subbing for ~3 months just to level a character and do dungeons lol. The environment is breathtaking and low level dungeons are casual and fun :p. Grinding is almost nonexistent now, by the time killing monsters feels grindy you get to move onto a new enviroment, new missions, new enemies.
Too Busy to Troll!
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 01:55 GMT
#127
On July 22 2010 10:54 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 10:45 kzn wrote:
On July 22 2010 10:43 Half wrote:
I disagree. WoW lacks too much mechanical skill (aiming in an FPS, micromanagement/macro management in BW). The game becomes a game of timings and tactics. You need mechanical skill because a game of tactics and timings simply is too simplistic in a real time strategy that the skill curve is destined to become flat.


Irrelevant. Chess has zero mechanical skill and is a tremendous competitive game, if you like where it is on the execution/strategy continuum.

Any game that has a great deal of focus on execution (what you call mechanical skill) has a correspondingly lower focus on strategy and tactics, by necessity..


Of course. But Chess is not a game played in real time.


Time is still a significant factor in competitive Chess, let alone Blitz/Bullet.
Like a G6
QuothTheRaven
Profile Joined December 2008
United States5524 Posts
July 22 2010 01:55 GMT
#128
Glad to see you've made a positive transition in your life.

Welcome to the community
. . . nevermore
tollz
Profile Joined July 2010
United States17 Posts
July 22 2010 01:55 GMT
#129
Welcome man, I was a huge WoW player too since you're familiar with WoW you'll understand what arena is, but that being said i was a S1-5 Glad before quitting, i still log on every couple months to talk to old buddies I've known since my medal of honor and counter strike days, but for the most part the game turned to shit. however I'm nott new to the SC scene, been watching VODs literally since i was 14 years old, so i know whats going on in games. my biggest problem was I SUCKED at SC1 terribly . but now with SC2 coming out it has given me a chance to get on an even playing field with it being a new game.
YUT OORAH KILL
Obscure
Profile Joined July 2008
United States272 Posts
July 22 2010 01:56 GMT
#130
On July 22 2010 10:18 virgozero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 08:50 Two wrote:

3) In WoW (if you play competatively) the skill cap isn't NEARLY as high as it is in SC2

lol so much wrong.
1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.
2.) you dont play starcraft for the skill. There is a skill mechanism for it but the cap is pretty damn low. All tournament players have perfected the skills of starcraft 2. You play starcraft 2 for the intellectual aspect. Starcraft 2 is about strategy and THINKING.
Its not about what you can do, everyone can make a probe and make a zealot, its about making it at the right time and when to make it and when not to.
If your looking for a game that doesn't require you to think and you can just rely on your skill aka dexterity play fps games.


edit: sry wow fans i forgot to mentoin in WoW you have to position yourself by right clicking A character.

Gee if that sounds like trouble what will happen when you have to positoin an army? AND MACRO?
AND THINK?


So much ignorance in this post...
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge" - Daniel J. Boorstin
nitdkim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1264 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 01:58:57
July 22 2010 01:58 GMT
#131
SC2 does have 2 expansions already set in stone (possibly with more) so that gives you 3 years of SC2. Then WC4? You'll probably play blizzard's new-gen MMO, and ditch SC2. lol. Hell, D3 is going to make half of SC2 players not even touch the game until expansion or something.
PM me if you want random korean images translated.
Luvz
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Norway356 Posts
July 22 2010 01:58 GMT
#132
i Feel you, Once sc2 Beta came out i totally stopped playing, havent even considered buying a new gamecard.. This is afther Jumping in Ironforge and Ogrimmer Hours and HOURS and COUNTLESS HOURS on end sience the early US wow beta.
Norway ~ Home of the brave <3
Joseph.
Profile Joined July 2010
United States17 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 02:01:21
July 22 2010 01:59 GMT
#133
On July 22 2010 10:52 DemiSe wrote:
I decided to quit WoW, when blizzard changed the honorsystem so every incompetent and mindfucked player could obtain my Warlord's Battlegear. The gear I had attained through playing >10 hours every day during my summerholiday together with the other 9 people of our premade. The gear I had attained through determination and hard work was up for grabs for anyone who was able to press a button to join a battleground.
Anywas...

Allow me to welcome you, Mr.Two to TL!
I'am certain that you will enjoy your stay.



Haha, respect. I think the longest I stayed up at any one point was 36 hours in a single sitting fighting for High Warlord against other people. I stopped at rank 12 (General) though because I decided I'd like to not go blind. Sometimes I wish I would have kept going to get rank 14, because High Warlord is such a unique title now, well General is too I guess.

I don't think there is anything harder I ever did in a game than having to stay up 20+ hours a day PVP'ing for months knowing the only way I was going to get high ranked is if the other guy decided sleep was more important. That was when WoW was really fucking hardcore.
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10671 Posts
July 22 2010 02:00 GMT
#134
You came to a good place.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
Jaxtile
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada2 Posts
July 22 2010 02:05 GMT
#135
I uninstalled it today. First time my comps been WoW-free since December '05
Jax Hax!
Tsagacity
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2124 Posts
July 22 2010 02:06 GMT
#136
I don't get all the WoW complaints anymore. Back at 60 they were definitely (and at 70 maybe), justified, but the game is incredibly easy now in terms of grind. I did recruit a friend and got to 60 in ~8 hours.

After that I PvP'd all the way to to 80 (PvP gives experience now) and immediately had enough honor for a full PvP set. Now I've been 80 for a week and all I have to do now for gear is wait for arena points, which isn't a real-time grind. Earning arena points takes 15 minutes per week, you can just only do it once per week.

Raiding is definitely the same massive time sink as usual, but it's easy to play the game intermittently and enjoy it.

As for the cost, it's easy to sell an account for more than what it cost retail+subs.

With the said, have fun with SC2
"Everyone worse than me at video games is a noob. Everyone better than me doesn't have a life."
Malgrif
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada1095 Posts
July 22 2010 02:06 GMT
#137
the skill cap for pvp wow is not about individual skill, it's about how well coordinated you are with your team mate. which is a lot harder than people give it credit for, without proper leadership/coordination your team will fail no matter how good the players/compositions are. people who say that wow is a skill less, mind less game are fooling themselves. sc2 is about raising individual skill, wow is about raising communication skills. both have their challenges, and i don't expect people to understand this unless they played at least mid-high tier arena.
for there to be pro there has to be noob.
Gorguts
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada254 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 02:09:44
July 22 2010 02:08 GMT
#138
Yea WoW blows now, they sold out to the casuals. Vanilla was awesome, you actually had to try hard to get into a good guild so you could do the hard raids, and it felt really epic.

now, it's just /2 "LFG ICC!" ... back in vanilla, PUGs could never raid... they ruined the guild aspect of WoW... not to mention when they removed 40 man raids and made them all 25 only, or 10. when BC came out my guild got killed by Karazahn because we were a big guild trying to get everyone into a 10 man instance.


also Competitive WoW is laughable. its pretty much all about your class comp. Counter-comps ALWAYS win, ive watched MANY WoW tournaments and I've never seen a team beat its counter comp.

however, if its a mirror match it does come down to skill.
[Silverflame]
Profile Joined March 2009
Germany640 Posts
July 22 2010 02:11 GMT
#139
I've stopped playing WoW (5years) around the days the SC2 Beta launched. As it has been mentioned before... The balance between fun compared to time consumption is way better in SC2. I also like the possibility of getting better in the ladder when you want to. In contrast to that WoW always is combined with the phrase "have to". SC2 gives me freedom to make my own decisions. WoW just bounds your soul if you pick it up...
Fav P Stork / Fav T Fantasy / Fav Z Hoejja
Ploppytheman
Profile Joined April 2010
United States248 Posts
July 22 2010 02:16 GMT
#140
Wow is work before you can play. If you are a loser with no friends except in game and don't have school or work the wow is great for you, have fun doing DAILY quests or PvE faggotry in order to play Arena. Or if you have a priest grinding offsets for haste and crit and being stuck as one spec. But to play Arena, the ONLY good part of the game requires grinding for gear, gems, gold, and you gotta get a team with extremely specific requirements just to play Arena. I got 2200+ on two toons in multiple brackets but I knew I'd quit when SC2 came out, why should I sit at 2200 b/c other people are dumbasses with no motivation? I don't know if its just me or if everyone in wow is an idiot but it sure felt like it. Yeh and wtf who has time to waste on wow? Its not even wasting time and you have fun, its fucking pushing a button in a cage just to play. Fuck that. Fuck MMO's. Fuck PvE and BGs. Fuck Grinding.

I quit that shit out of frustration (was gonna quit for sc2 anyway) and 1month later EBgames was giving out beta keys. Never once have I wanted to go back and I feel so much more rewarded and happy and having fun and depending on my self. I LOVE YOU STARCRAFT!!!! Lol but seriousyl wow is shit in every way except arena, but arena requires too much shit to be worth it. I played wow for 2 years, had several 80's (did RAF with my best friend and gifted levels to a lvl 30) and sold rating to noobs. But besides the difficulty of just playing arena there were so many bugs, blatent imba, and other issues the game was barely worth it. In retrospect I should have quit (or never played) and played Broodwar. Never play an MMO, its a waste of your life and no bullshit argument of "I balance my play" matters because 99% of an MMO is skillless. Arena takes some skill but due to gross imba and ez mode comps and carrying there is a huge differential in rewards for effort. In SC2 you can't go ILL BUILD ZERGLINGS NOW IM TOP DIAMOND KEKEKE. Ugh wow makes me so sick, I hate a lot of things, people, and innocent animals, but WoW is the worst thing ever.

I always planned on playing sc2 but I felt practicing Broodwar wouldn't be very fun since it'll probably die when sc2 comes out (hopefully it dies b/c that means sc2 is better).
youtube.com/ploppytheman for GAIMEZ!!!
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 02:18:59
July 22 2010 02:18 GMT
#141
On July 22 2010 10:55 kzn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 10:54 Half wrote:
On July 22 2010 10:45 kzn wrote:
On July 22 2010 10:43 Half wrote:
I disagree. WoW lacks too much mechanical skill (aiming in an FPS, micromanagement/macro management in BW). The game becomes a game of timings and tactics. You need mechanical skill because a game of tactics and timings simply is too simplistic in a real time strategy that the skill curve is destined to become flat.


Irrelevant. Chess has zero mechanical skill and is a tremendous competitive game, if you like where it is on the execution/strategy continuum.

Any game that has a great deal of focus on execution (what you call mechanical skill) has a correspondingly lower focus on strategy and tactics, by necessity..


Of course. But Chess is not a game played in real time.


Time is still a significant factor in competitive Chess, let alone Blitz/Bullet.

Eh, got me. In many ways, some aspects of WoW are like Chess, in the sense time is a limiting factor instead of a resource in execution. But Chess is popular because its a reducible competition of intellect. You really can't tell the skill level differences between Gary Kasparov and another very accomplished and inferior chessmaster beyond "who wins" in the same it the you can tell the difference between two classes of Starcraft pros. This is because both Chess and WoW in can become reduced to a very few number of attributes. Chess can remain popular and respected because ones proficiency at its set skillset reflects core intellectual values that are valued in society. WoW doesn't do this, and WoW won't do this. In terms of "skill curve", SC2 has an infinitely sharper skill curve then both chess and WoW.


Is it balanced? no

Is it truly competitive like SC:BW is? no

Its as competitive as any mmo can possibly be though, and its ALOT of fun and highly addictive.


This is more or less my evaulation of WoW arena. Though except the last part, my heart belongs to Guild Wars as far as competitive MMO goes, though you could argue that isn't an MMO. WoW holds a respectable second place though.
Too Busy to Troll!
virgozero
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada412 Posts
July 22 2010 02:20 GMT
#142
On July 22 2010 10:27 kzn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 10:18 virgozero wrote:
lol so much wrong.
1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.


lol he binds his spells to f1-f12 and talks about skill

Lol i forgot press 1-0 takes more skill than pressing f1-12 right?
God your soo smart do you give lessons?
Ploppytheman
Profile Joined April 2010
United States248 Posts
July 22 2010 02:27 GMT
#143
On July 22 2010 10:52 DemiSe wrote:
I decided to quit WoW, when blizzard changed the honorsystem so every incompetent and mindfucked player could obtain my Warlord's Battlegear. The gear I had attained through playing >10 hours every day during my summerholiday together with the other 9 people of our premade. The gear I had attained through determination and hard work was up for grabs for anyone who was able to press a button to join a battleground.
Anywas...

Allow me to welcome you, Mr.Two to TL!
I'am certain that you will enjoy your stay.



Grinding BG noobs doesn't take skill, at all, ever. Arena is the only thing that takes skill in the game, and even that is dependent on comp/class and not being carried.
youtube.com/ploppytheman for GAIMEZ!!!
Ploppytheman
Profile Joined April 2010
United States248 Posts
July 22 2010 02:33 GMT
#144
On July 22 2010 11:20 virgozero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 10:27 kzn wrote:
On July 22 2010 10:18 virgozero wrote:
lol so much wrong.
1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.


lol he binds his spells to f1-f12 and talks about skill

Lol i forgot press 1-0 takes more skill than pressing f1-12 right?
God your soo smart do you give lessons?


Reaction times. You want the fastest reaction speed in that game and having keys that are likely out of reach is stupid. I had 50 keybinds on my hunter and I never used F1-F12 (except F1 to toggle enemy nameplates). You use the closest and fastest keys and then use modifers on those keys that don't interfere with your movement keys. Also binding keys to mouse buttons.

In fact reaction speed is so important when I got snowfallkeypress mod, sounds super gay, but it makes your spells go off on key PRESS rather than key RELEASE I noticed an immense improvement in performance. From just milliseconds difference it mattered so much because pulling your fingers off takes nearly twice as long than pushing them down. Speed matters.
youtube.com/ploppytheman for GAIMEZ!!!
ROOTFayth
Profile Joined January 2004
Canada3351 Posts
July 22 2010 02:35 GMT
#145
On July 22 2010 10:55 tollz wrote:
Welcome man, I was a huge WoW player too since you're familiar with WoW you'll understand what arena is, but that being said i was a S1-5 Glad before quitting, i still log on every couple months to talk to old buddies I've known since my medal of honor and counter strike days, but for the most part the game turned to shit. however I'm nott new to the SC scene, been watching VODs literally since i was 14 years old, so i know whats going on in games. my biggest problem was I SUCKED at SC1 terribly . but now with SC2 coming out it has given me a chance to get on an even playing field with it being a new game.

if you didn't have the dedication and the will that it takes to be among the top on broodwar, odds are history is gonna repeat on SC2

really you just need to be extremely competitive and dedicated
Culture
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada488 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 02:41:54
July 22 2010 02:37 GMT
#146
In WoW, the arena is quite competitive and challenging and with a very high skill cap.

I say this as a wow tournament player.

There is, of course, much more focus on team tactics than individual gameplay. Morale is quite important, and the potential to make mistakes is quite greater. In starcraft you can clearly say you lost because you did so and so wrong 2-3~ minutes before, etc. In highly competitive arena gameplay a similar thing can be said but to events that happened perhaps 10-15 seconds before, in most cases.
Baarn
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2702 Posts
July 22 2010 02:39 GMT
#147
So many unique snowflake type posts. Quite hilarious for the first few pages. Anyway seems like Blizzard did exactly what they intended to do by converting someone from WoW to remain loyal and not leave them for another companies game. Good luck with it Two.
There's no S in KT. :P
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
July 22 2010 02:42 GMT
#148
I would say that WoW arena takes a fair amount of skill, but it's very possible for terrible players to be able to get to the Top of the ladder. I really don't know how they do it. Interestingly, the better i got at wow, the harder it became for me to get to the top of the ladder. I have no idea why this was but it's the main reason i switched to brood war.

Also, it seems the only people who are saying WoW takes no skill in this thread are the players that sucked at the game or havn't played the arenas much. (which is the only part of the game that takes skill really)
hi
DemiSe
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
883 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 02:57:45
July 22 2010 02:49 GMT
#149
On July 22 2010 10:59 Joseph. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 10:52 DemiSe wrote:
I decided to quit WoW, when blizzard changed the honorsystem so every incompetent and mindfucked player could obtain my Warlord's Battlegear. The gear I had attained through playing >10 hours every day during my summerholiday together with the other 9 people of our premade. The gear I had attained through determination and hard work was up for grabs for anyone who was able to press a button to join a battleground.
Anywas...

Allow me to welcome you, Mr.Two to TL!
I'am certain that you will enjoy your stay.



Haha, respect. I think the longest I stayed up at any one point was 36 hours in a single sitting fighting for High Warlord against other people. I stopped at rank 12 (General) though because I decided I'd like to not go blind. Sometimes I wish I would have kept going to get rank 14, because High Warlord is such a unique title now, well General is too I guess.

I don't think there is anything harder I ever did in a game than having to stay up 20+ hours a day PVP'ing for months knowing the only way I was going to get high ranked is if the other guy decided sleep was more important. That was when WoW was really fucking hardcore.


Yea, especially when you have around 6-7 premades running @ the same server, fighting for the top 5 standings. Now PvP(ARENA!) is just a big fat joke. I mean, find 2 poeple that play the right classes and enter arena, how hard is that. Try mobilizing 10 people that have superior teamwork and have a deep understanding of their individual classes. I laugh when people say it was "mindless" grinding, it just show how little people know about vanilla wow. People whine that it is hard to find good partners for 3v3, then they have tried out finding a good premade in vanilla wow.

EDIT: After reading some of the dumbest comments in this thread I'll leave it the way it is. I feel like if I start discussing with some of the people here that has whatsoever no knownledge of the game, esp vanillia wow it will result in a flamewar and it would be disrespectful to the OP.
Let's See Who's Stronger, Your Tricks, Or My Skills.
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
July 22 2010 02:52 GMT
#150
grinding high warlord was more of a joke than arenas, grinding high warlord just rewarded people being able to play the game for 14 hours a day, didn't matter how good you were. I know a lot of high warlords that couldn't break 1600 in 2v2 once TBC came out because they were so bad.
hi
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 02:53 GMT
#151
On July 22 2010 11:18 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +

Is it balanced? no

Is it truly competitive like SC:BW is? no

Its as competitive as any mmo can possibly be though, and its ALOT of fun and highly addictive.


This is more or less my evaulation of WoW arena. Though except the last part, my heart belongs to Guild Wars as far as competitive MMO goes, though you could argue that isn't an MMO. WoW holds a respectable second place though.


I don't disagree with that at all - my claim was that it had great potential, not that it realized it. WoW went completely the wrong direction starting with roughly season 2, and it just got worse from there. Had they gone a direction more focused on arena balance, it would easily have become the first true MMOPvP esport game, and it would have been vastly superior to GW.
Like a G6
Mr Winky
Profile Joined June 2010
United States39 Posts
July 22 2010 02:53 GMT
#152
welcome!
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed.
Gorguts
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada254 Posts
July 22 2010 02:56 GMT
#153
On July 22 2010 11:52 stroggos wrote:
grinding high warlord was more of a joke than arenas, grinding high warlord just rewarded people being able to play the game for 14 hours a day, didn't matter how good you were. I know a lot of high warlords that couldn't break 1600 in 2v2 once TBC came out because they were so bad.



to get High Warlord/Grand Marshall you had to be WINNING non-stop for those 14 hours, not just playing bgs. you had to be winning FAST, like 5-capping AB. atleast on my server it was like that, maybe you played on a really non-competitive server.


and lol @ thinking arenas take skill. sorry but nothing in WoW takes skill.
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 02:58:23
July 22 2010 02:56 GMT
#154
On July 22 2010 11:53 kzn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 11:18 Half wrote:

Is it balanced? no

Is it truly competitive like SC:BW is? no

Its as competitive as any mmo can possibly be though, and its ALOT of fun and highly addictive.


This is more or less my evaulation of WoW arena. Though except the last part, my heart belongs to Guild Wars as far as competitive MMO goes, though you could argue that isn't an MMO. WoW holds a respectable second place though.


I don't disagree with that at all - my claim was that it had great potential, not that it realized it. WoW went completely the wrong direction starting with roughly season 2, and it just got worse from there. Had they gone a direction more focused on arena balance, it would easily have become the first true MMOPvP esport game, and it would have been vastly superior to GW.


And my claim is that it never had potential due to the way the game is structured. It doesn't matter how they balanced it, unless they made a drastic departure from their current and past spell designs, WoW PvP could have never become as competitive as even GW, let alone Starcraft.


and lol @ thinking arenas take skill. sorry but nothing in WoW takes skill.


Then whats stopping from from being #1 in Arenas? lol. And don't bs me about class, lock was at 1% above 2200 at the beginning of s6.
Too Busy to Troll!
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
July 22 2010 02:57 GMT
#155
season 2 was awesome, people didn't even know how to fakecast back then
hi
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 02:58 GMT
#156
On July 22 2010 11:56 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 11:53 kzn wrote:
On July 22 2010 11:18 Half wrote:

Is it balanced? no

Is it truly competitive like SC:BW is? no

Its as competitive as any mmo can possibly be though, and its ALOT of fun and highly addictive.


This is more or less my evaulation of WoW arena. Though except the last part, my heart belongs to Guild Wars as far as competitive MMO goes, though you could argue that isn't an MMO. WoW holds a respectable second place though.


I don't disagree with that at all - my claim was that it had great potential, not that it realized it. WoW went completely the wrong direction starting with roughly season 2, and it just got worse from there. Had they gone a direction more focused on arena balance, it would easily have become the first true MMOPvP esport game, and it would have been vastly superior to GW.


And my claim is that it never had potential due to the way the game is structured. It doesn't matter how they balanced it, unless they made a drastic departure from their current and past spell designs, WoW PvP could have never become as competitive as even GW, let alone Starcraft.



I don't understand why you say that though. GW has no more mechanical skill requirements than WoW did, which was your original point, and GW has watered down strategy compared to WoW due to a lack of CC spells and a focus on spike damage strats, which are relatively simple to pull off with practice.
Like a G6
vesicular
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1310 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 03:05:26
July 22 2010 03:01 GMT
#157
On July 22 2010 11:42 stroggos wrote:
Also, it seems the only people who are saying WoW takes no skill in this thread are the players that sucked at the game or havn't played the arenas much. (which is the only part of the game that takes skill really)


Oh the game requires skill, but it also requires things like gear, and proper min/maxing. If you don't have that you will mostly get hosed. And then when they nerf your class so that you're not as well off in PvP you have to roll the flavor of the month class up to 80 and start all over again. My guild hates PvP in WoW for this very reason. SC2 doesn't have these limitations. Race are (supposed to be) equal. You don't have to reroll to try a different race. Which is why we're all switching to SC2 until at least Cata comes out.

I give credit to the guys who do well in WoW PvP. It certainly takes a lot of dedication, but there's a reason it will always be a niche in ways that SC2 won't.
STX Fighting!
zTz
Profile Blog Joined February 2003
United States476 Posts
July 22 2010 03:02 GMT
#158
Welcome to Starcraft buddy! All converts are welcome!
where's the rants n flames section?
stroggos
Profile Joined February 2009
New Zealand1543 Posts
July 22 2010 03:04 GMT
#159
On July 22 2010 11:56 Gorguts wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 11:52 stroggos wrote:
grinding high warlord was more of a joke than arenas, grinding high warlord just rewarded people being able to play the game for 14 hours a day, didn't matter how good you were. I know a lot of high warlords that couldn't break 1600 in 2v2 once TBC came out because they were so bad.



to get High Warlord/Grand Marshall you had to be WINNING non-stop for those 14 hours, not just playing bgs. you had to be winning FAST, like 5-capping AB. atleast on my server it was like that, maybe you played on a really non-competitive server.


and lol @ thinking arenas take skill. sorry but nothing in WoW takes skill.


lol, it was piss easy to 5 cab ab every game if you had a premade of people that didn't completely suck. And there is much more coordination in arena than ever needed in battlegrounds. All you had to do in battlegrounds was spam a macro to tell everyone where to go, and they just had to do their job.
hi
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
July 22 2010 03:04 GMT
#160
On July 22 2010 11:58 kzn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 11:56 Half wrote:
On July 22 2010 11:53 kzn wrote:
On July 22 2010 11:18 Half wrote:

Is it balanced? no

Is it truly competitive like SC:BW is? no

Its as competitive as any mmo can possibly be though, and its ALOT of fun and highly addictive.


This is more or less my evaulation of WoW arena. Though except the last part, my heart belongs to Guild Wars as far as competitive MMO goes, though you could argue that isn't an MMO. WoW holds a respectable second place though.


I don't disagree with that at all - my claim was that it had great potential, not that it realized it. WoW went completely the wrong direction starting with roughly season 2, and it just got worse from there. Had they gone a direction more focused on arena balance, it would easily have become the first true MMOPvP esport game, and it would have been vastly superior to GW.


And my claim is that it never had potential due to the way the game is structured. It doesn't matter how they balanced it, unless they made a drastic departure from their current and past spell designs, WoW PvP could have never become as competitive as even GW, let alone Starcraft.



I don't understand why you say that though. GW has no more mechanical skill requirements than WoW did, which was your original point, and GW has watered down strategy compared to WoW due to a lack of CC spells and a focus on spike damage strats, which are relatively simple to pull off with practice.


My argument wasn't solely that WoW lacked mechanic skill, it was a combination of lacking mechanical skill and while having a semi-deep strategic component, was not deep enough to compensate for that.

Anyway, GW has a lot more "mechanical" skill, and even more strategic skill. Reaction mattered due to interrupts, ranger interrupts often requiring you to interrupt before the spell was even cast. Spell timing was far more critical due to the prevalence of interrupts, while the largeness of the map introduced macro-level strategies and introduced concepts like map control and ganking. The lack of "hard" CC increases skill, as now locking down a class requires a lot more teamwork, coordination, and timing. Spikes in high level GvG required a combination of constant pressure and control in order to successfully pull off.
Too Busy to Troll!
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 03:06 GMT
#161
On July 22 2010 12:04 Half wrote:
Anyway, GW has a lot more "mechanical" skill, and even more strategic skill. Reaction mattered due to interrupts, ranger interrupts often requiring you to interrupt before the spell was even cast.


Thats not reaction, thats prediction, which turns back into a strategy skill, and was present in WoW (and, indeed, became more important in WotLK because of the ridiculous damage inflation).

The lack of "hard" CC increases skill, as now locking down a class requires a lot more teamwork, coordination, and timing.


This, I believe, is completely wrong, but its an opinion I've run into a lot. Fairly certain we're not going to argue to an agreement on this point, so I'll just leave it.

Spikes in high level GvG required a combination of constant pressure and control in order to successfully pull off.


The same could easily have been accomplished with WoW's spell design through manipulation of cooldowns, diminishing returns, cast times, and damage.
Like a G6
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 03:13:15
July 22 2010 03:09 GMT
#162

The same could easily have been accomplished with WoW's spell design through manipulation of cooldowns, diminishing returns, cast times, and damage.


I agree with this. But that was my entire point, unless you heavily redesigned the way many spells worked in WoW, it wouldn't really have been that good of an Esport. Perhaps it was closer to this direction in S2 (not from experience, but I'll take your word for it), but it still would have been pretty far off. It would have required a major overhaul to accomplish.



Too Busy to Troll!
Ghin
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
United States2391 Posts
July 22 2010 03:11 GMT
#163
LOL we used to play when 19s existed on detheroc. I was Foofy aka the worst rogue in OE. Nice to see that you're playing a real game now lol.
Legalize drugs and murder.
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 03:12:47
July 22 2010 03:12 GMT
#164
On July 22 2010 12:09 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +

The same could easily have been accomplished with WoW's spell design through manipulation of cooldowns, diminishing returns, cast times, and damage.


I agree with this. But that was my entire point, unless you heavily redesigned the way many spells worked in WoW, it wouldn't really have been that good of an Esport. Perhaps it was closer to this direction in S2 (not from experience, but I'll take your word for it), but it still would have been pretty far off.


I guess I don't see modification of basic spell stats as "heavy redesign" - I thought you meant stuff like changing what class roles were, what the spells did in the most simple of terms, etc.

Basically, WoW needed significant rebalancing for PvP from the very beginning, but the potential was always there. Blizzard just chose not to chase it, instead pursuing PvE balance for the larger clientbase (a shortsighted move, in my opinion).
Like a G6
Gorguts
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada254 Posts
July 22 2010 03:15 GMT
#165
WoW PvP reminds me of DOTA... its sooo easy so you have all these over-night elitists who think they're so awesome at it. Glad to see people are switching over to real competitive games.
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 03:19:15
July 22 2010 03:17 GMT
#166
On July 22 2010 12:12 kzn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 12:09 Half wrote:

The same could easily have been accomplished with WoW's spell design through manipulation of cooldowns, diminishing returns, cast times, and damage.


I agree with this. But that was my entire point, unless you heavily redesigned the way many spells worked in WoW, it wouldn't really have been that good of an Esport. Perhaps it was closer to this direction in S2 (not from experience, but I'll take your word for it), but it still would have been pretty far off.


I guess I don't see modification of basic spell stats as "heavy redesign" - I thought you meant stuff like changing what class roles were, what the spells did in the most simple of terms, etc.

Basically, WoW needed significant rebalancing for PvP from the very beginning, but the potential was always there. Blizzard just chose not to chase it, instead pursuing PvE balance for the larger clientbase (a shortsighted move, in my opinion).


Well, "heavy redesign" as in drastic rebalanced of many statistic values and the outright removal of some spells and introduction of new ones, and a moderate change of pace in gameplay.

Personally, I thought the dynamic between constant pressure (consistently good position and timing) and spiking (well timed well coordinated executions) in GvG were fun to watch to anyone with a moderate understanding of the game, and were very fun (and skillful) to play as well, and the same dynamic should have existed in WoW. However, in every season gameplay leaned too heavily in one of the two ends of that spectrum.
Too Busy to Troll!
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 03:20 GMT
#167
On July 22 2010 12:17 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 12:12 kzn wrote:
On July 22 2010 12:09 Half wrote:

The same could easily have been accomplished with WoW's spell design through manipulation of cooldowns, diminishing returns, cast times, and damage.


I agree with this. But that was my entire point, unless you heavily redesigned the way many spells worked in WoW, it wouldn't really have been that good of an Esport. Perhaps it was closer to this direction in S2 (not from experience, but I'll take your word for it), but it still would have been pretty far off.


I guess I don't see modification of basic spell stats as "heavy redesign" - I thought you meant stuff like changing what class roles were, what the spells did in the most simple of terms, etc.

Basically, WoW needed significant rebalancing for PvP from the very beginning, but the potential was always there. Blizzard just chose not to chase it, instead pursuing PvE balance for the larger clientbase (a shortsighted move, in my opinion).


Well, "heavy redesign" as in drastic rebalanced of many statistic values and the outright removal of some spells and introduction of new ones, and a moderate change of pace in gameplay.

Personally, I thought the dynamic between constant pressure (consistently good position and timing) and spiking (well timed well coordinated executions) in GvG were fun to watch to anyone with a moderate understanding of the game, and were very fun (and skillful) to play as well, and the same dynamic should have existed in WoW. However, in every season game play either leaned too heavily in one of the two ends of that spectrum.


I'm biased against spike gameplay because in S1/S2 I played Hunter/Mage 5s, which (at least the way we played it) revolved around massive abuse of CC and mana draining to win - and it was incredibly frustrating to play essentially perfectly for 10 minutes and lose because of a windfury proc, or the like.

The way I see spike gameplay, as a result of that, is "you only have to get lucky once, they have to get lucky every single time".

I flat out refuse to play games without hard CC anymore.
Like a G6
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 03:32:22
July 22 2010 03:27 GMT
#168
On July 22 2010 12:20 kzn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 12:17 Half wrote:
On July 22 2010 12:12 kzn wrote:
On July 22 2010 12:09 Half wrote:

The same could easily have been accomplished with WoW's spell design through manipulation of cooldowns, diminishing returns, cast times, and damage.


I agree with this. But that was my entire point, unless you heavily redesigned the way many spells worked in WoW, it wouldn't really have been that good of an Esport. Perhaps it was closer to this direction in S2 (not from experience, but I'll take your word for it), but it still would have been pretty far off.


I guess I don't see modification of basic spell stats as "heavy redesign" - I thought you meant stuff like changing what class roles were, what the spells did in the most simple of terms, etc.

Basically, WoW needed significant rebalancing for PvP from the very beginning, but the potential was always there. Blizzard just chose not to chase it, instead pursuing PvE balance for the larger clientbase (a shortsighted move, in my opinion).


Well, "heavy redesign" as in drastic rebalanced of many statistic values and the outright removal of some spells and introduction of new ones, and a moderate change of pace in gameplay.

Personally, I thought the dynamic between constant pressure (consistently good position and timing) and spiking (well timed well coordinated executions) in GvG were fun to watch to anyone with a moderate understanding of the game, and were very fun (and skillful) to play as well, and the same dynamic should have existed in WoW. However, in every season game play either leaned too heavily in one of the two ends of that spectrum.


I'm biased against spike gameplay because in S1/S2 I played Hunter/Mage 5s, which (at least the way we played it) revolved around massive abuse of CC and mana draining to win - and it was incredibly frustrating to play essentially perfectly for 10 minutes and lose because of a windfury proc, or the like.

The way I see spike gameplay, as a result of that, is "you only have to get lucky once, they have to get lucky every single time".

I flat out refuse to play games without hard CC anymore.


Spike gameplay did have that tendency in WoW, but I think that just highlights a lot of the problems with it (like a windfury relying on procs...) Playing Guild Wars, it would pretty rare that I'd lose the game because they'd get a "lucky" spike. The game had a slower pace as a result, but it meant whenever someone dropped, someone did something wrong, either a controller (mez or ranger) failed to properly interrupt, that melee failed to train properly and intelligently, or that monks failed to react quick enough, or we as a team were just being out pressured due to a combination of all three. Usually spiking was never a win because of itself, but a way to take advantage of a weakness you saw in your opponents as soon as it manifested.

And yeah, I get where your coming from, but from the opposite end of the spectrum. S5 was fun and semi-skillful even playing double dps, and destro locks kind of sucked but S6 after the conflag buff was so fucking hilarious. The reliance on crits was hilarious, I remember literally oneshotting heavily geared paladins because my conflag critted for 10k followed by an eversicate and a chaos bolt....I can thank pve weapons for that and my guild for letting me leach off them even though I never came to progression nights lol. I think I shot up 300 rating in a couple weeks after the patch, but I quit before the season ended :p.

I mean, thats really starkly contrasts with how Spiking worked in GvG...outside of gimmicks you never won /just/ because you spiked, but because your opposing team failed to keep up in other ways, and spiking is just a way of taking advantage of that. In WoW, spiking is deadling in itself.
Too Busy to Troll!
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 03:30 GMT
#169
On July 22 2010 12:27 Half wrote:
And yeah, I get where your coming from, but from the opposite end of the spectrum. S5 was fun and semi-skillful even playing double dps, and destro locks kind of sucked but S6 after the conflag buff was so fucking hilarious. The reliance on crits was hilarious, I remember literally oneshotting heavily geared paladins because my conflag critted for 10k followed by an eversicate and a chaos bolt....I can thank pve weapons for that and my guild for letting me leach off them even though I never came to progression nights lol.



Dude to get glad in S6 I played Wizard Cleave with fnatic's shaman and a baller warlock and it was ridiculous.

We didn't even have to CC or interrupt to get kills if we swapped properly, I'd just call for a druid swap and the druid would go 100-0 in like 3 seconds.

Even at the end of S1 4dps teams were starting to demonstrate the stupid nature of pressure comps in WoW, which is why I view S1/S2 as the glory days of arena. After that it just got stupid, especially in 5s.
Like a G6
potatomash3r
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia417 Posts
July 22 2010 03:33 GMT
#170
Wow 6 years? I couldn't last a single month.
Part of being mature is to accept your loss.
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 03:38:03
July 22 2010 03:34 GMT
#171
On July 22 2010 12:30 kzn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 12:27 Half wrote:
And yeah, I get where your coming from, but from the opposite end of the spectrum. S5 was fun and semi-skillful even playing double dps, and destro locks kind of sucked but S6 after the conflag buff was so fucking hilarious. The reliance on crits was hilarious, I remember literally oneshotting heavily geared paladins because my conflag critted for 10k followed by an eversicate and a chaos bolt....I can thank pve weapons for that and my guild for letting me leach off them even though I never came to progression nights lol.



Dude to get glad in S6 I played Wizard Cleave with fnatic's shaman and a baller warlock and it was ridiculous.

We didn't even have to CC or interrupt to get kills if we swapped properly, I'd just call for a druid swap and the druid would go 100-0 in like 3 seconds.

Even at the end of S1 4dps teams were starting to demonstrate the stupid nature of pressure comps in WoW, which is why I view S1/S2 as the glory days of arena. After that it just got stupid, especially in 5s.


Never really played 5s, but yeah, s6 destro warlock was fucking ridiculous. Often we'd just run around trying to set up and then just instantly engage and one of them would die lol, in 2s or 3s :/. It was even funnier in BGS with full PvE gear cuz I'd literally oneshot lower geared people with Conflag :D.

The only time I did 5s I fought 4 prot paladins lols. Ye, 4, idk where the 5th one went :x.

You still play WoW? Is arena still the clusterfuck it was in s6 lols?
Too Busy to Troll!
tru_power22
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada385 Posts
July 22 2010 03:37 GMT
#172
Nice, welcome to the SC community!

I think this might have made a better blog, though.
Smoke Errday!
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 03:40 GMT
#173
On July 22 2010 12:34 Half wrote:You still play WoW? Is arena still the clusterfuck it was in s6 lols?


Nah I quit to play Aion and I haven't looked back since (which still amazes me to this day, almost a year away). I'd guess its worse than it was in S6 - when I quit it was just getting worse and worse as more PvE gear made its way into arena - it wasn't even fun for me and I was one of the best geared mages on BG9 at the time. I didn't even cast CC spells anymore, which is what drew me to mage in the first place, I just hammered cooldowns and spammed frostbolt with like 800 haste.
Like a G6
Seam
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1093 Posts
July 22 2010 03:41 GMT
#174
On July 22 2010 08:54 Bub wrote:
Smart move. Should have quit a while ago though, save yourself a lot of time and Money. Now lets see everyone else do the same.



I am too :3
I only needed one probe to take down idra. I had to upgrade to a zealot for strelok. - Liquid`Tyler
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
July 22 2010 03:42 GMT
#175
On July 22 2010 12:40 kzn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 12:34 Half wrote:You still play WoW? Is arena still the clusterfuck it was in s6 lols?


Nah I quit to play Aion and I haven't looked back since (which still amazes me to this day, almost a year away). I'd guess its worse than it was in S6 - when I quit it was just getting worse and worse as more PvE gear made its way into arena - it wasn't even fun for me and I was one of the best geared mages on BG9 at the time. I didn't even cast CC spells anymore, which is what drew me to mage in the first place, I just hammered cooldowns and spammed frostbolt with like 800 haste.


Hows Aion PvP? Or Aion in general? idk anyone who plays it.
Too Busy to Troll!
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 03:45 GMT
#176
On July 22 2010 12:42 Half wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 12:40 kzn wrote:
On July 22 2010 12:34 Half wrote:You still play WoW? Is arena still the clusterfuck it was in s6 lols?


Nah I quit to play Aion and I haven't looked back since (which still amazes me to this day, almost a year away). I'd guess its worse than it was in S6 - when I quit it was just getting worse and worse as more PvE gear made its way into arena - it wasn't even fun for me and I was one of the best geared mages on BG9 at the time. I didn't even cast CC spells anymore, which is what drew me to mage in the first place, I just hammered cooldowns and spammed frostbolt with like 800 haste.


Hows Aion PvP? Or Aion in general? idk anyone who plays it.


I quit Aion after like 2 months as well. The game was just vastly too hardcore for the western market. 1-50 took 3 weeks if you played 10-12 hours a day starting from release, and got worse if you started late because of PvP - and that was the easy grind, as people who did hit 50 discovered.

The game very quickly bled population after it became apparent that the grind never ever got any better. Personally, I loved it, because I tend to put 10-12 hours a day into whatever it is I'm pursuing competitively anyway, so it didn't bug me that much, but without a population to support the mass Abyss PvP that was a major drawing point nobody else wanted to keep playing.
Like a G6
Lennon
Profile Joined February 2010
United Kingdom2275 Posts
July 22 2010 03:47 GMT
#177
You forgot:
4) WoW is a terrible game compared to SC2
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
July 22 2010 03:47 GMT
#178
On July 22 2010 12:45 kzn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 12:42 Half wrote:
On July 22 2010 12:40 kzn wrote:
On July 22 2010 12:34 Half wrote:You still play WoW? Is arena still the clusterfuck it was in s6 lols?


Nah I quit to play Aion and I haven't looked back since (which still amazes me to this day, almost a year away). I'd guess its worse than it was in S6 - when I quit it was just getting worse and worse as more PvE gear made its way into arena - it wasn't even fun for me and I was one of the best geared mages on BG9 at the time. I didn't even cast CC spells anymore, which is what drew me to mage in the first place, I just hammered cooldowns and spammed frostbolt with like 800 haste.


Hows Aion PvP? Or Aion in general? idk anyone who plays it.


I quit Aion after like 2 months as well. The game was just vastly too hardcore for the western market. 1-50 took 3 weeks if you played 10-12 hours a day starting from release, and got worse if you started late because of PvP - and that was the easy grind, as people who did hit 50 discovered.

The game very quickly bled population after it became apparent that the grind never ever got any better. Personally, I loved it, because I tend to put 10-12 hours a day into whatever it is I'm pursuing competitively anyway, so it didn't bug me that much, but without a population to support the mass Abyss PvP that was a major drawing point nobody else wanted to keep playing.


Ah :/. Well, I'm still holding out for Guild Wars 2. Best of luck, think ima go to sleep early tday, got mornin classes.

Man we really went OT didn't we lol :x.
Too Busy to Troll!
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 03:57:04
July 22 2010 03:51 GMT
#179
--- Nuked ---
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 03:52 GMT
#180
On July 22 2010 12:47 Half wrote:
Man we really went OT didn't we lol :x.


I''ve been rather restrained compared to how much I normally write on topics like this :d
Like a G6
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 03:56:39
July 22 2010 03:53 GMT
#181
I also vastly prefer Starcraft 2 over WoW because you don't have to rely on other people. Here's the thing about WoW... if you want to do well in the arena, you either need to be able to carry (think mage that is very skilled at cc) or have good partners. I experienced the inability to get past 1500 with some people, and with others the ability to get to 2k rating in the first night of playing. I constantly questioned my own skill in WoW arena, because depending on gear and who I was playing with, I was either gladiator material or a sub-1500 scrub.

In Starcraft 2, I was able to jump right in and beat some people that are really good. Every loss I could blame on myself, and every win I could take credit for. Even in the 2v2 bracket, I was able to carry my silver leagued friend straight into platinum (b4 diamond). That, my friends, is a game based on pure skill.

Also, for some reason WoW guilds are rarely interested in how good or bad you are. Do you have the achievements, do you have the gear? Do you know someone to vouch for you? We'll try you out. It makes it REALLY hard to get back into the game unless you plan on grinding with a crappy guild to get the gear. On the other hand in sc2 you can jump right back in, mechanics might take a dozen games to get back, but you don't forget strategy.

Admittedly I'm biased because I had a lot of bad experiences in WoW. Maybe I am just not a people person. ='/
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
virgozero
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada412 Posts
July 22 2010 03:56 GMT
#182
On July 22 2010 11:33 Ploppytheman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 11:20 virgozero wrote:
On July 22 2010 10:27 kzn wrote:
On July 22 2010 10:18 virgozero wrote:
lol so much wrong.
1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.


lol he binds his spells to f1-f12 and talks about skill

Lol i forgot press 1-0 takes more skill than pressing f1-12 right?
God your soo smart do you give lessons?


Reaction times. You want the fastest reaction speed in that game and having keys that are likely out of reach is stupid. I had 50 keybinds on my hunter and I never used F1-F12 (except F1 to toggle enemy nameplates). You use the closest and fastest keys and then use modifers on those keys that don't interfere with your movement keys. Also binding keys to mouse buttons.

In fact reaction speed is so important when I got snowfallkeypress mod, sounds super gay, but it makes your spells go off on key PRESS rather than key RELEASE I noticed an immense improvement in performance. From just milliseconds difference it mattered so much because pulling your fingers off takes nearly twice as long than pushing them down. Speed matters.

wow you still dont get it?
My point is that the only skill to WOW is button mashing.
Spamming spells.
You do not aim (for the most part and its honestly dead easy anyways) and its ultimately who has the more 1337 EQ wins the game.

Just retardedly stupid.

There is none of that stupid stuff in Sc. Sc is purely about strategy and out thinking your opponent (on the high end level where skill has plateaued due to the low skill ceiling of rts)
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 04:05:35
July 22 2010 04:03 GMT
#183
--- Nuked ---
virgozero
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada412 Posts
July 22 2010 04:03 GMT
#184
Why are we even comparing wow with sc2

Its like comparing an automatic mercedes with a manual lamborghini
They appy to 2 completely different genres.

WoW is meant for a casual relax, click click, spam spells, click click, chillax, hang with your clan, fly around the world. Basically having another life in a virtual world.

Sc2 is meant for high level intense mental concentration to out play your opponent.
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
July 22 2010 04:05 GMT
#185
On July 22 2010 12:56 virgozero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 11:33 Ploppytheman wrote:
On July 22 2010 11:20 virgozero wrote:
On July 22 2010 10:27 kzn wrote:
On July 22 2010 10:18 virgozero wrote:
lol so much wrong.
1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.


lol he binds his spells to f1-f12 and talks about skill

Lol i forgot press 1-0 takes more skill than pressing f1-12 right?
God your soo smart do you give lessons?


Reaction times. You want the fastest reaction speed in that game and having keys that are likely out of reach is stupid. I had 50 keybinds on my hunter and I never used F1-F12 (except F1 to toggle enemy nameplates). You use the closest and fastest keys and then use modifers on those keys that don't interfere with your movement keys. Also binding keys to mouse buttons.

In fact reaction speed is so important when I got snowfallkeypress mod, sounds super gay, but it makes your spells go off on key PRESS rather than key RELEASE I noticed an immense improvement in performance. From just milliseconds difference it mattered so much because pulling your fingers off takes nearly twice as long than pushing them down. Speed matters.

wow you still dont get it?
My point is that the only skill to WOW is button mashing.
Spamming spells.
You do not aim (for the most part and its honestly dead easy anyways) and its ultimately who has the more 1337 EQ wins the game.

Just retardedly stupid.

There is none of that stupid stuff in Sc. Sc is purely about strategy and out thinking your opponent (on the high end level where skill has plateaued due to the low skill ceiling of rts)


this isn't quite a thread for you to bash about WoW competition scene,
look on GOMTV, half of their game videos are of WoW tournaments
the videos themselves have as much views as the sc2 ones

`i don't see why you can't give these players more credit, there's quiet a lot of teamwork involved
maybe even the sort of great coordination that would transfer over to team matches, sc2
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
billyX333
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1360 Posts
July 22 2010 04:10 GMT
#186
On July 22 2010 13:05 nanaoei wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 12:56 virgozero wrote:
On July 22 2010 11:33 Ploppytheman wrote:
On July 22 2010 11:20 virgozero wrote:
On July 22 2010 10:27 kzn wrote:
On July 22 2010 10:18 virgozero wrote:
lol so much wrong.
1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.


lol he binds his spells to f1-f12 and talks about skill

Lol i forgot press 1-0 takes more skill than pressing f1-12 right?
God your soo smart do you give lessons?


Reaction times. You want the fastest reaction speed in that game and having keys that are likely out of reach is stupid. I had 50 keybinds on my hunter and I never used F1-F12 (except F1 to toggle enemy nameplates). You use the closest and fastest keys and then use modifers on those keys that don't interfere with your movement keys. Also binding keys to mouse buttons.

In fact reaction speed is so important when I got snowfallkeypress mod, sounds super gay, but it makes your spells go off on key PRESS rather than key RELEASE I noticed an immense improvement in performance. From just milliseconds difference it mattered so much because pulling your fingers off takes nearly twice as long than pushing them down. Speed matters.

wow you still dont get it?
My point is that the only skill to WOW is button mashing.
Spamming spells.
You do not aim (for the most part and its honestly dead easy anyways) and its ultimately who has the more 1337 EQ wins the game.

Just retardedly stupid.

There is none of that stupid stuff in Sc. Sc is purely about strategy and out thinking your opponent (on the high end level where skill has plateaued due to the low skill ceiling of rts)


this isn't quite a thread for you to bash about WoW competition scene,
look on GOMTV, half of their game videos are of WoW tournaments
the videos themselves have as much views as the sc2 ones


because more viewers = more competitive
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 17:39:15
July 22 2010 04:12 GMT
#187
--- Nuked ---
StreetHeat
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States225 Posts
July 22 2010 04:14 GMT
#188
After a week of sc2 beta I tried going back to wow. I didn't last 2hours.... GCDs make the game sooooo slow. Also it's really nice to be able to get up and walk around during a gaming session without 24 people yelling at you for going AFK. I may level a toon through cata just because I want to see the new stuff but I doubt I'll ever be tied down to a meaningless grind again.

I feel like this thread is like a meeting of wow annonymous.
And wow-haters non- annonymous
“If you want to learn to swim jump into the water. On dry land no frame of mind is ever going to help you” -Bruce Lee
billyX333
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States1360 Posts
July 22 2010 04:15 GMT
#189
On July 22 2010 13:12 Barrin wrote:
Show nested quote +
because more viewers = more competitive

While I don't necessarily agree with it, a case could surely be made to show the validity of that statement.


make a case then
dont see how more subscribers/fans/viewers = more competitive
it doesnt contribute to any point
its a worthless fact
shinosai
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States1577 Posts
July 22 2010 04:15 GMT
#190
On July 22 2010 13:12 Barrin wrote:
Show nested quote +
because more viewers = more competitive

While I don't necessarily agree with it, a case could surely be made to show the validity of that statement.


I don't think so. I can't for the life of me think of any reason that the two would be correlated. I mean, it's pretty obvious for example that the most popular writers are not necessarily the most talented. Having an audience just means you appeal to the crowd, not that your product is extremely complex... or in this case competitive.
Be versatile, know when to retreat, and carry a big gun.
Ozarius
Profile Joined July 2010
United States42 Posts
July 22 2010 04:16 GMT
#191
You're doing the right thing Two! My friend has been asking me lately if i want to start WoW again. His friends are starting again and want to start raiding.

I told him that im going to be playing Sc2 full-time .
Its not worth all that time spent!
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 04:19:53
July 22 2010 04:17 GMT
#192
On July 22 2010 12:56 virgozero wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 11:33 Ploppytheman wrote:
On July 22 2010 11:20 virgozero wrote:
On July 22 2010 10:27 kzn wrote:
On July 22 2010 10:18 virgozero wrote:
lol so much wrong.
1.) wow takes 0 skill. If you include smashing F1->f12 in a sequence then I would also like to say eating ice cream takes skill too.


lol he binds his spells to f1-f12 and talks about skill

Lol i forgot press 1-0 takes more skill than pressing f1-12 right?
God your soo smart do you give lessons?


Reaction times. You want the fastest reaction speed in that game and having keys that are likely out of reach is stupid. I had 50 keybinds on my hunter and I never used F1-F12 (except F1 to toggle enemy nameplates). You use the closest and fastest keys and then use modifers on those keys that don't interfere with your movement keys. Also binding keys to mouse buttons.

In fact reaction speed is so important when I got snowfallkeypress mod, sounds super gay, but it makes your spells go off on key PRESS rather than key RELEASE I noticed an immense improvement in performance. From just milliseconds difference it mattered so much because pulling your fingers off takes nearly twice as long than pushing them down. Speed matters.

wow you still dont get it?
My point is that the only skill to WOW is button mashing.
Spamming spells.
You do not aim (for the most part and its honestly dead easy anyways) and its ultimately who has the more 1337 EQ wins the game.

Just retardedly stupid.

There is none of that stupid stuff in Sc. Sc is purely about strategy and out thinking your opponent (on the high end level where skill has plateaued due to the low skill ceiling of rts)



WoW isn't about buttons mashing.
Most of ability have cooldown, and win is hightly determined by placements / timings / teamwork and the choice of when use that ability and how depending of what your ennemie is doing and his mistakes.
And i can tell you, i use to play at the best level of the best UE batteground and if it's not as difficult as Starcraft, it's still damn hard difficult. )

Of course i talk about PvP.. PvE is a an other thing.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
antelope591
Profile Joined October 2007
Canada820 Posts
July 22 2010 04:20 GMT
#193
I cancelled my subscription till cata also...the game is mind numbingly boring at this point. The only thing to do is is run ICC for the 100000th time since PvP has been atrocious since wotlk was released. Can't even stand to log in anymore. I seriously don't see how anyone could still have fun with wotlk at this point -_-
Wr3k
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada2533 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 04:25:47
July 22 2010 04:22 GMT
#194
On July 22 2010 09:30 Chylo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 09:23 Nagano wrote:
There is hardly a skill ceiling on WoW, just your ability to form a team with people who have gear and basic pvp strategy. That's really it.

Poppin cooldowns, mash mash mash, he's ded lol



Lol. Maybe at 1900. Link your 3k rated team please? There's tons of teams of the same comp spread over the entire spectrum of ratings, obviously some are much better than others, like in anything else.

Also, if you can't see the incredibly high skill cap in these matches then you just don't get it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8x8kjlLrKu8&feature=related


I played 2400 frost mage in S4/5/6 on BG9 and wow is still a joke compared to the skill it takes for SC2 on the top level. They are very different games, and the top level of wow pvp does require alot of skill, but its just not the same depth as SC2 by any stretch. Yeah I never got e-famous and competed or anything, but I support the idea that SC2 has a much higher skill cap.
Balzy
Profile Joined August 2008
United States113 Posts
July 22 2010 04:22 GMT
#195
On July 22 2010 12:53 shinosai wrote:
I also vastly prefer Starcraft 2 over WoW because you don't have to rely on other people.


this.

My experience with WoW is akin to most posts here. 4+ years spent playing the game ina casual guild means a lot of frustrating moments. It wasn't always bad but more recently its gotten to the point to where the guild i was in had so many that were either annoying, bad or a combo of both. It felt like i was trapped since there were a handful of people from vanilla that i still liked to play with, but the core raiding group consisted of mostly people i'd rather not consort with. Raiding became a chore and thus the game wasn't fun for me anymore. /rhyme +1

I'm excited to be able to play a starcraft 2 like i used to play starcraft. No teammate to undermine a strategy, no carrying, no annoying (albeit sometimes decent players) teammates you're forced to play with, but most important of all, no one to blame but myself.

I'm proud to be able to be a part of the beta and to help form what has the chance to be a really great game. I like the OP have been Blizzard fanboy since i could move a mouse. My first game i ever bought from Blizzard was Blackthorne if you can believe it. I've played through the warcraft rts series, both Diablos online when they were in their hay-day and i even bought the sierra expansion pack with the monk and hidden bard char. After that came starcraft. I lol'd so hard when Day[9] said in his 100th(?) daily that he used to bring the brood war book with him to school and stuff since i thought i was the only one. I thought i was so cool... but hey, it is cool, so what can i say.

ok... i went on a bit of a tangent there. in short, blizzard will always have a special place in my heart and i'll see you on bnet on Tues.


In short, I pissed in Gods eye... and he blinked. - Dr. Thaddeus Venture
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 04:25:54
July 22 2010 04:25 GMT
#196
miss one, sorry ~~
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 04:26:06
July 22 2010 04:25 GMT
#197

I played 2400 frost mage in S4/5/6 on bloodlust and wow is still a fucking joke compared to the skill it takes for SC2. They are very different games, and the top level of wow pvp does require alot of skill, but its just not the same depth as SC2 by any stretch.


This.

RTS games will always be the hardest type of games anyway. But it don't mean that other games are just dumb.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
ShivaN
Profile Joined January 2007
United States933 Posts
July 22 2010 04:30 GMT
#198
Good for you man! I was pretty hardcore into WoW from day1 through season 5/6 of WoTLK, got glad on my war s2-4. As the pvp quality deteriorated with wotlk and since I felt like nothing new was added I decided to unsubb. Basically the PvP aspect of the game killed it for me. As soon as I heard about SC2 beta coming out I closed my account that month, that was like May last year or something. Haven't regretted it a day since! :D RTS was always my true love, mmo.. not for me.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I think you'll find a much more enriching and rewarding game in SC2 that doesn't require nearly the time commitment.
ApoNow
Profile Joined May 2010
Luxembourg100 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 04:34:39
July 22 2010 04:31 GMT
#199
WoW's Arena problem is not the lack of skill. In fact, I like to compare it to Beat'Em Up's where reflexes, forethinking and proper execution are key. Add in a 3D environment and the importance of coordination and you've got a quite challenging game to begin with, even though there's a natural skill-barrier in form of the global cooldown.
Its problem is comp balance. You can be the better team and still lose due to the opponent's comp being favored against yours (or even straight up overpowered).
I'm buying that it is unbalanced, unfair and at times disgustingly frustrating (it shall never become a true recognized E-Sport because of those issues, or so I hope) - what I'm not buying is this whole "Arena = no skill" meme which even pro players seem eager to propagate.

And then there's PvE. Being the leader of a rather hardcore PvE-guild, I know what it takes to be more or less successful: a mature and hardened leadership, coordination and 30+ people capable of executing your plans. It might not be too skillful at the individual basis (hell, not by a long shot), but it's quite demanding at the collective level. If it wasn't for PvE, I would've quit the game a long time ago but Blizz are still kings of designing challenging encounters (Yes, endgame PvE IS fun, you heard it here first).

Having said that, Starcraft is by far more mechanically demanding but one should never forget the coordinative aspect which renders WoW far more complex than it actually seems to be.

But after all, Starcraft is still more baller
A Tiamat tour is like Space Mountain in Disneyland… A roller coaster in the dark
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
July 22 2010 04:35 GMT
#200

I don't think so. I can't for the life of me think of any reason that the two would be correlated. I mean, it's pretty obvious for example that the most popular writers are not necessarily the most talented. Having an audience just means you appeal to the crowd, not that your product is extremely complex... or in this case competitive.


i guess a quick example would be how the starcraft competitive scene became larger and larger with the acknowledgement it drew from the crowds, players, and sponsor companies

--was made possible, as if it was because of the popularity of the game in the first place
*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
Ploppytheman
Profile Joined April 2010
United States248 Posts
July 22 2010 04:36 GMT
#201
On July 22 2010 11:49 DemiSe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 10:59 Joseph. wrote:
On July 22 2010 10:52 DemiSe wrote:
I decided to quit WoW, when blizzard changed the honorsystem so every incompetent and mindfucked player could obtain my Warlord's Battlegear. The gear I had attained through playing >10 hours every day during my summerholiday together with the other 9 people of our premade. The gear I had attained through determination and hard work was up for grabs for anyone who was able to press a button to join a battleground.
Anywas...

Allow me to welcome you, Mr.Two to TL!
I'am certain that you will enjoy your stay.




Haha, respect. I think the longest I stayed up at any one point was 36 hours in a single sitting fighting for High Warlord against other people. I stopped at rank 12 (General) though because I decided I'd like to not go blind. Sometimes I wish I would have kept going to get rank 14, because High Warlord is such a unique title now, well General is too I guess.

I don't think there is anything harder I ever did in a game than having to stay up 20+ hours a day PVP'ing for months knowing the only way I was going to get high ranked is if the other guy decided sleep was more important. That was when WoW was really fucking hardcore.


Yea, especially when you have around 6-7 premades running @ the same server, fighting for the top 5 standings. Now PvP(ARENA!) is just a big fat joke. I mean, find 2 poeple that play the right classes and enter arena, how hard is that. Try mobilizing 10 people that have superior teamwork and have a deep understanding of their individual classes. I laugh when people say it was "mindless" grinding, it just show how little people know about vanilla wow. People whine that it is hard to find good partners for 3v3, then they have tried out finding a good premade in vanilla wow.

EDIT: After reading some of the dumbest comments in this thread I'll leave it the way it is. I feel like if I start discussing with some of the people here that has whatsoever no knownledge of the game, esp vanillia wow it will result in a flamewar and it would be disrespectful to the OP.


Comparing BGs to arena is like comparing... Connect Four to Chess. BGs with a premade is super easy and there is NO challenge. Anyone can roflstomp noobs, in fact if I have a healer on my hunter, or dps on my priest, I can rape the shit out of any group in BGs unless they are a bigger premade (and even then). Arena is way harder than any BG ever, and vanilla was 2 shotting people with pve gear failfest. You don't need to know shit to win a BG compared to Arena. Sure there are OP comps in 2's and ezmode setups but ALL BGS are ALWAYZ EZ MODE unless its two extremely good premades vs each other on vent, which is 1% of matches if that.

Finding people to make a premade is easy. Finding someone who is super skilled and needs to have certain gear/spec/skills is much harder than finding a "healer" for BG's. By taking a retard with decent gear who can heal my hunter toon, or a decent dps who can help my priest kill shit I dominate BGs. By myself I make a great impact but if i have a retard who can follow a few simple commands and have decent gear (like a pet) I can win almost any BG or turn it so far in my favor we win.

Anyone saying BGs takes skill is either an idiot or a troll.
youtube.com/ploppytheman for GAIMEZ!!!
Ploppytheman
Profile Joined April 2010
United States248 Posts
July 22 2010 04:39 GMT
#202
On July 22 2010 12:53 shinosai wrote:
I also vastly prefer Starcraft 2 over WoW because you don't have to rely on other people. Here's the thing about WoW... if you want to do well in the arena, you either need to be able to carry (think mage that is very skilled at cc) or have good partners. I experienced the inability to get past 1500 with some people, and with others the ability to get to 2k rating in the first night of playing. I constantly questioned my own skill in WoW arena, because depending on gear and who I was playing with, I was either gladiator material or a sub-1500 scrub.

In Starcraft 2, I was able to jump right in and beat some people that are really good. Every loss I could blame on myself, and every win I could take credit for. Even in the 2v2 bracket, I was able to carry my silver leagued friend straight into platinum (b4 diamond). That, my friends, is a game based on pure skill.

Also, for some reason WoW guilds are rarely interested in how good or bad you are. Do you have the achievements, do you have the gear? Do you know someone to vouch for you? We'll try you out. It makes it REALLY hard to get back into the game unless you plan on grinding with a crappy guild to get the gear. On the other hand in sc2 you can jump right back in, mechanics might take a dozen games to get back, but you don't forget strategy.

Admittedly I'm biased because I had a lot of bad experiences in WoW. Maybe I am just not a people person. ='/


This. And the people in wow are shit.
youtube.com/ploppytheman for GAIMEZ!!!
nanaoei
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
3358 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 04:41:59
July 22 2010 04:39 GMT
#203
On July 22 2010 13:35 nanaoei wrote:
Show nested quote +

I don't think so. I can't for the life of me think of any reason that the two would be correlated. I mean, it's pretty obvious for example that the most popular writers are not necessarily the most talented. Having an audience just means you appeal to the crowd, not that your product is extremely complex... or in this case competitive.


i guess a quick example would be how the starcraft competitive scene became larger and larger with the acknowledgement it drew from the crowds, players, and sponsor companies

--was made possible, as if it was because of the popularity of the game in the first place

the point was to say just about every game has its own level of how people decide to compete in,
and also to point out that there's a large draw to the game's pvp-----even if half the viewers are just WoW players, and guild members anyway, doesn't that tell you something ?

*@boesthius' FF7 nostalgia stream bomb* "we should work on a 'Final Progamer' fangame»whitera can be a protagonist---lastlie: "we save world and then defense it"
Juaks
Profile Joined June 2010
United States384 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 05:10:27
July 22 2010 05:08 GMT
#204
On July 22 2010 09:16 LumberJack wrote:
I've played competitive wow for years now(2.5k+), its definitely not as satisfying as sc was. I'm still not convinced SC2 is going to be as popular as SC:BW. There are alot of elements about the play i dont like. I dont like how unit composition is so important. You can double their food in army and still lose b/c you have the wrong units vs his army. I guess its just growing pains and things I'll just have to get over. I hate how i cant just make basic units as zerg/toss but terran can get away with it.


That is exactly the beauty of SC2.
Ill rather play a game I have to scout and think, over a game I only mass the best unit and auto win. SC2 is Strategy, tactics, intelligence, positioning and much more.
Think about it.
PS. And you can rest assure SC2 will be as popular as BW.
Freeheals
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States488 Posts
July 22 2010 05:14 GMT
#205
The biggest part me of quitting WoW is definitely the addictive and time-sucking nature of the game. You could get lost in that game for literally hours and hours. I would get on, play a little, glance at the clock and realize that I just drained 4 hours. With starcraft 2 and many other games like it there is much less of a time-suck factor. You always know, more or less, how long a game is going to take you (10~90 mins) and you can always take a break in between games and get some fresh air or get some RL work done. With WoW there was no real 'break' where you weren't doing anything at all. I really like that break. With SC2 I don't feel chained to my chair at all, except in the midst of battle.

One other aspect of WoW that was a big turn-off for me, as you (OP) mentioned, is the skill cap. You could only get so good at clicking buttons and positioning your character, but were eventually and endlessly beat out by better-geared characters. SC2 has none of that, as it is very strategy-oriented and is great for thinkers like myself to indulge in, because things are constantly changing with new strategies, build orders, and the like.

http://www.last.fm/user/Rahdek
grobo
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Japan6199 Posts
July 22 2010 05:20 GMT
#206
Wise choice, welcome to the wonderful SC community.
We make signature, then defense it.
Zealotdriver
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States1557 Posts
July 22 2010 05:20 GMT
#207
Congratulations on quitting. Never go back. I recently did a one-month WoW binge after being away for a year. What a waste of time. It is better to "level up" yourself in real life.
Turn off the radio
Gnarg
Profile Joined October 2009
Netherlands165 Posts
July 22 2010 05:24 GMT
#208
Yeah the biggest negative points about WoW for me was having to adjust your schedule around a guilds raids. Being a raid leader for a long time it really started to feel like a job sometimes.

Playing SC2 is such a relief :p.
Tech231
Profile Joined June 2010
United States90 Posts
July 22 2010 05:31 GMT
#209
I played on private servers got addicted to grinding though a lot faster paced. Tried to play retail. Found out i wasted my money after 2 weeks.
Though before all this I have been n SC player since I was 7 and the game released.
(still have my sc 1.0 disc)
I may not have been born with a Silver Spoon, but I have a Shovel to bury YOU with. - Will C.
Fruscainte
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
4596 Posts
July 22 2010 05:34 GMT
#210
My main problem with WoW is that you have to pay. So that means you HAVE to play countless hours a week or you're basically wasting your money...
MurdeR
Profile Joined May 2004
Argentina89 Posts
July 22 2010 05:34 GMT
#211
congratulations^^
Comunidad Argentina de SC2: www.latingamers.net
Xahhk
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada540 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 05:40:00
July 22 2010 05:38 GMT
#212
On July 22 2010 09:51 PokePill wrote:
Show nested quote +
Lol. Maybe at 1900. Link your 3k rated team please? There's tons of teams of the same comp spread over the entire spectrum of ratings, obviously some are much better than others, like in anything else.

Also, if you can't see the incredibly high skill cap in these matches then you just don't get it:


How is anybody who doesn't play World of Warcraft supposed to have any clue what's going on? When I watch WoW, it looks to me people are just left clicking each other and making full use of spell cooldowns while using teamwork. It also looks like all projectiles and attacks auto target. Not being sarcastic or anything, I don't have a clue what I'm watching in that video.

What am I missing?


You're missing the timing of all of the abilities. Instead of aiming or anything, the skill boils down to casting the right spells at the right time, positioning, using pillars to hide, and coordinating all of this with teammates. Hard stuff to do at a high level, but I agree, not too interesting to watch unless you know the game, and or play in similar situations yourself.

Also, if a layman sees a video like that and all he thinks is "wow they are just spamming abilities as soon as they are up", that pretty much seals the deal for WoW ever becoming a serious e-sport.
Mr_LOL
Profile Joined July 2010
Israel21 Posts
July 22 2010 05:41 GMT
#213
imagine if you spent all that time you spent playing wow and played starcraft. imagine how good you would be
Ghad
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Norway2551 Posts
July 22 2010 05:50 GMT
#214
On July 22 2010 08:54 Fubsywubkis wrote:
However, in SC2, I absolutely can log in for 20 minutes if I want to, play a quick match, and go on my way! You don't ever get to the point where, if you don't dedicate 16 hours, you're wasting your time. I just...I love it. It's awesome.


Yes, this is just brilliant.
forgottendreams: One underage girl, two drunk guys, one gogo dancer and starcraft 2. Apparently just another day in Europe.
DminusTerran
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1337 Posts
July 22 2010 05:54 GMT
#215
Arenas were my thing... the competative aspect of WoW. I obtained the "Gladiator" title many seasons


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Detheroc&cn=Two&gn=Fancy Pants PvP

1 Time isn't many, granted at 41st place you'll probably get it this season, but 2 times isn't really, "many" either.
Mr_LOL
Profile Joined July 2010
Israel21 Posts
July 22 2010 05:56 GMT
#216
ya but it takes longer to get good at sc then to get good at wow and once you get into sc it is more addicting then wow imo
Rodiel
Profile Joined August 2006
France573 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 05:57:01
July 22 2010 05:56 GMT
#217
Ive play like 3 years of wow since vanilla till end of burning crusade and dont regret at all , and ive very good memory combined with movies, friends and stuff
like the start of the PVP, my first alterac was so awesome we were 20v40 and winning, vanilla instance ( first c thun kill after 1 month ), and ive making an awesome RP PVP Guild of 200 members.
sLiniss
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States849 Posts
July 22 2010 06:03 GMT
#218
My hat is off to you Mr. OP (btw Two is a pretty sick name. I dunno why... simple and cool haha)

I remember when I played WoW... circle strafe GOGOGO! Just kidding. I hope you will have lots of fun with SC2!
Obscure
Profile Joined July 2008
United States272 Posts
July 22 2010 06:08 GMT
#219
On July 22 2010 14:56 Rodiel wrote:
Ive play like 3 years of wow since vanilla till end of burning crusade and dont regret at all , and ive very good memory combined with movies, friends and stuff
like the start of the PVP, my first alterac was so awesome we were 20v40 and winning, vanilla instance ( first c thun kill after 1 month ), and ive making an awesome RP PVP Guild of 200 members.


I'm with you on this. WoW gets a really bad rap around here it seems, but the initial leveling experience, especially if you did it back when the game was released, was amazing and memorable. The game really is incredibly well made.

But it's not a very good competitive game, no RPGs are.
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance - it is the illusion of knowledge" - Daniel J. Boorstin
maxtodd
Profile Joined June 2010
58 Posts
July 22 2010 06:18 GMT
#220
On July 22 2010 14:54 DminusTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
Arenas were my thing... the competative aspect of WoW. I obtained the "Gladiator" title many seasons


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Detheroc&cn=Two&gn=Fancy Pants PvP

1 Time isn't many, granted at 41st place you'll probably get it this season, but 2 times isn't really, "many" either.


Pwned. I hope you're a journalist Dminus
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 22 2010 06:23 GMT
#221
Who else is counting down the days ;DDDD
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 06:36 GMT
#222
On July 22 2010 14:54 DminusTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
Arenas were my thing... the competative aspect of WoW. I obtained the "Gladiator" title many seasons


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Detheroc&cn=Two&gn=Fancy Pants PvP

1 Time isn't many, granted at 41st place you'll probably get it this season, but 2 times isn't really, "many" either.


Because everyone only plays one character ever for their entire WoW career.

owait
Like a G6
mrkent
Profile Joined January 2010
United States160 Posts
July 22 2010 06:39 GMT
#223
Question to WoW players:

I heard somewhere before that Blizzard is trying to get wow players to transition into SC2. Considering WoW makes more money, that would be a bad business decision. Why do you guys think they'd try to do that? And have you seen blizzard actively trying to get players over?

Only thing I can think of is you guys start playing sc2, and then go back to cataclysm when it comes out. And then buy future sc2 expansions while continuing to play wow.
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 06:40 GMT
#224
On July 22 2010 15:39 mrkent wrote:
Question to WoW players:

I heard somewhere before that Blizzard is trying to get wow players to transition into SC2. Considering WoW makes more money, that would be a bad business decision. Why do you guys think they'd try to do that? And have you seen blizzard actively trying to get players over?

Only thing I can think of is you guys start playing sc2, and then go back to cataclysm when it comes out. And then buy future sc2 expansions while continuing to play wow.


I don't think they're trying to create complete converts. They want WoW players to enjoy SC2 enough to buy it and play it without enjoying it so much that they cancel subscriptions.
Like a G6
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 22 2010 06:40 GMT
#225
On July 22 2010 14:54 DminusTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
Arenas were my thing... the competative aspect of WoW. I obtained the "Gladiator" title many seasons


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Detheroc&cn=Two&gn=Fancy Pants PvP

1 Time isn't many, granted at 41st place you'll probably get it this season, but 2 times isn't really, "many" either.


I've been Gladiator since season 2. You think Two is my only character? After playing that long? I have toons on Blackrock and Tich.

How many times have you been Gladiator? 0? Gladiator isn't even a hard title to achieve.
DminusTerran
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada1337 Posts
July 22 2010 07:04 GMT
#226
On July 22 2010 15:40 Two wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 14:54 DminusTerran wrote:
Arenas were my thing... the competative aspect of WoW. I obtained the "Gladiator" title many seasons


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Detheroc&cn=Two&gn=Fancy Pants PvP

1 Time isn't many, granted at 41st place you'll probably get it this season, but 2 times isn't really, "many" either.


I've been Gladiator since season 2. You think Two is my only character? After playing that long? I have toons on Blackrock and Tich.

How many times have you been Gladiator? 0? Gladiator isn't even a hard title to achieve.


Three times not that it matters, "Gladiator isn't even a hard title to achieve." though your hostility speaks volumes.
Baarn
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2702 Posts
July 22 2010 07:07 GMT
#227
On July 22 2010 15:39 mrkent wrote:
Question to WoW players:

I heard somewhere before that Blizzard is trying to get wow players to transition into SC2. Considering WoW makes more money, that would be a bad business decision. Why do you guys think they'd try to do that? And have you seen blizzard actively trying to get players over?

Only thing I can think of is you guys start playing sc2, and then go back to cataclysm when it comes out. And then buy future sc2 expansions while continuing to play wow.


It's never a bad business decision to get an existing customer to buy another product or service you offer. Blizzard does that and that's why they do so well financially. "The game will be released on July 27th and as a reminder, people who order the Collector's Edition of the game will be rewarded with the Mini-Thor Companion Pet." Seem like it to me if they are offering pets for people that buy it and vice versa if you purchase wow.


The entire point of bnet 2.0 has been to create a single platform for all of the games and services they offer so people can cross game chat, leave comments on facebook and twitter, etc in any of their games. Well yeah they are hoping to woo people over to wow when the expansion is ready. Nobody ever really quits wow. Sure they'd love for people to buy sc2 expansions and people will.
There's no S in KT. :P
SONE
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada839 Posts
July 22 2010 07:07 GMT
#228
why are you guys fighting about wow anyway if you are quit or have quit. it's just pointless.
ahleezay
Profile Joined July 2009
43 Posts
July 22 2010 07:10 GMT
#229
since bw is dead and sc2 gay, im switching to WoW. bye!
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 22 2010 07:27 GMT
#230
On July 22 2010 16:04 DminusTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 15:40 Two wrote:
On July 22 2010 14:54 DminusTerran wrote:
Arenas were my thing... the competative aspect of WoW. I obtained the "Gladiator" title many seasons


http://www.wowarmory.com/character-achievements.xml?r=Detheroc&cn=Two&gn=Fancy Pants PvP

1 Time isn't many, granted at 41st place you'll probably get it this season, but 2 times isn't really, "many" either.


I've been Gladiator since season 2. You think Two is my only character? After playing that long? I have toons on Blackrock and Tich.

How many times have you been Gladiator? 0? Gladiator isn't even a hard title to achieve.


Three times not that it matters, "Gladiator isn't even a hard title to achieve." though your hostility speaks volumes.


I am not being hostile.
Keitzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2509 Posts
July 22 2010 07:28 GMT
#231
On July 22 2010 08:54 Bub wrote:
Smart move. Should have quit a while ago though, save yourself a lot of time and Money. Now lets see everyone else do the same.


rofl, ya, like, when Vanilla ended.
I'm like badass squared | KeitZer.489
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 22 2010 07:39 GMT
#232
Keitzer, Hey buddy ;D!
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
July 22 2010 07:47 GMT
#233
Welcome to the club brother! (Though I allready quit for LoL and sc bw)

Still, proud of you! :D
In the woods, there lurks..
sleepytime
Profile Joined January 2010
Denmark122 Posts
July 22 2010 07:51 GMT
#234
Smart move ! I think SC2 will become really big, and discussions about WoW will not occur that often
Nada fighting!
Keitzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2509 Posts
July 22 2010 07:57 GMT
#235
On July 22 2010 16:51 sleepytime wrote:
Smart move ! I think SC2 will become really big, and discussions about WoW will not occur that often



ya... i ALSO think a lot of players of WoW will come over mostly because WoW is turning into a PvE game exclusively... ya they have arenas, BGs, etc... but it's focused around PvE content, and the competitive people who want those epic, non-scripted battles will come over to play SC2 for 2 reasons

1. It's gonna be really effin' epic.
2. It's a blizzard game, and a gamer of blizzard generally likes their other games.
I'm like badass squared | KeitZer.489
nepitolko
Profile Joined April 2010
Slovakia32 Posts
July 22 2010 08:01 GMT
#236
Wow is time consuming?
Every game is if you want to be good at it 4 hours a day cause of arenas/raids... Nearly every one of you spend more time playing SC2 Don't get me wrong i love SC2.


Quiting wow save money?
15$ a month. If you spend one day evening in wow and dont go to cinema or .... its the same amount of money I can tell you that playing wow save money.


You cannot forget the social aspect of the game. I personaly know every guild member of our guild. We are having several guild meetings every year.
Wow is amazing but you cannot compare it with an e-sport.
But as some of you have pointed the fact rely on yourself is much better than rely on others.


I am playing wow and planing to switch to SC2. I will probably spend more time plaing sc2 than i was loged in WOW.





virgozero
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada412 Posts
July 22 2010 08:01 GMT
#237
On July 22 2010 13:15 billyX333 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 13:12 Barrin wrote:
because more viewers = more competitive

While I don't necessarily agree with it, a case could surely be made to show the validity of that statement.


make a case then
dont see how more subscribers/fans/viewers = more competitive
it doesnt contribute to any point
its a worthless fact

just let it be. you can't argue with WoW fanboys. Ignorance is a bliss, lets be kind.
GeminiOne
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany87 Posts
July 22 2010 08:06 GMT
#238
well well...
why always those antagonism against wow players?
Either you play it or you don't play it. I wouldn't blame you for one of those.

I have been playing wow since release and currently in a pve raid guild which is trying to get the last 3 heroic boss kills in ICC (Putrizide, Sindragosa and Lichking).
I have to say that due to the lag of new content I played much less wow and was laddering in the SC2 beta.
When SC2 goes live I will most likely play more SC2 than wow, but I will still attend my raid dates in wow and when Cataclysm comes out lately this year or next year I might play more wow then.

But I will still play both games...for sure...they are both blizzard games and they are both great...and with enough practice and skill you can be good in both of them.
Ok...in wow you need a decent raid gear (hero T10 and other 277er items and a good raid guild) but you also need skill...good timings...fast reactions and so on...like in SC2.

In SC2 you might need good training partners and a lot of games 'till you can mess with the really good players...and like in wow you need a sense for good timings (well timed attacks)...you need fast reactions and you need a plan for your game (tactics and strategy).

To conclude this long post (sorry for that^^) I have to say that I think playing a lot of SC2 the last time made me even a little bit better in wow (i dont know....perhaps it's bullshit)...but trying to maintain a high APM in SC2 made me sometimes klick faster and that kind of stuff in wow....i don't know. *gg*

So cheerio to all those wow and sc2 fans out there. GL HF! ;D
WolfStar
Profile Joined February 2008
United Kingdom155 Posts
July 22 2010 09:11 GMT
#239
Good choice I quit wow half way through WOTLK when I finally realised it wasn't worth playing unless you could hand over most of your waking hours lol!

That said I'm going to look a proper state in work next Wednesday, must complete campaign, must know what happens next!
The early bird catches the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese.
klv
Profile Joined July 2010
Norway11 Posts
July 22 2010 11:09 GMT
#240
Quit about 2-3 months ago, after some guy in my WOW guild linked me Day[9] daily #100. Watched it and found myself missing the good old warcraft 3 days. I never really played starcraft 1 much, dabbled abit with the campaign and played it (read: got whooped) at some lans and such. Anyways after that point I preordered SC2, played the beta abit and watched every Day[9] daily so far. So big thanks to Day[9]'s awesome casts for saving me from that enormous time sink
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 11:17:00
July 22 2010 11:15 GMT
#241
On July 22 2010 09:07 kzn wrote:
25 mans were fucking easy compared to the 40 mans.

Although if you managed to get a good 40 man it was ridiculously fun.

We took 120+ tries on the first encounter in Blackwing Lair ... it was a lot of frustration and really good after we managed it. After that it got a lot easier though. Smaller raids put more pressure on the guild as it wasnt so easy to accomodate all classes (especially after Blizzard decided that the Horde needs Loladins too) when you had to take X of class Y to be able to succeed. Thats part of the reason why I quit two and a half years ago (February 29th, 2008).

Personally I think WoW has a bigger potential for entertainment and reward, because you can share the excitement with a group of friends (not everyone has the luxury of lots of RL friends playing WoW in the same guild though), because it is impossible to describe the emotion of a win / survival of a tough encounter to someone who wasnt there. We had one guy in the guild who tried to describe his awesome PvP exploits in guildchat and on teamspeak ... obviously he failed and was the one guildmember who was on my ignore list.

Starcraft is A LOT lonelier than WoW ever will be, just because of its organization (no chat channels yet for SC2 ...) and even watching a replay wont bring the same excitement you get when you play yourself.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
TymerA
Profile Joined July 2010
Netherlands759 Posts
July 22 2010 11:20 GMT
#242
same story for me. I have quit WoW (for now) because of starcraft 2. Glad i did. Will save me a lot of money lol
nice.
rasers
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden691 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 11:22:25
July 22 2010 11:20 GMT
#243
seems like me and some friends dont need 2 sacrifice the whole life 2 be "good" at wow srsly..
this blablalb wow kills soooooooo much time is just bullshit. u freaking dont need 2 raid every single night and so on.
if they nerd so much wow they will also nerd so much SCII and "waste time" has nothing 2 do with the game. people that just cant say "no i wont come today" are the "nerds" and they will do it in every game.
i mean "i quit a game 2 play a different game" if he doesnt nerd this new game so freaking much he could easily play both games couldnt he?.

and well lets all wait till the "OMFG SCII ITS NEW AND SHIT OMFG ITS BLIZZARD SO GREAT" hype is over and we can really tell if SCII will be big or not.

also plz dont compare SCII esports 2 Wc3 or SC:BW back in the days its stupid.
lyk503
Profile Joined May 2009
United States261 Posts
July 22 2010 11:39 GMT
#244
On July 22 2010 08:50 Two wrote:
Thank you so much
<2


<2 to you too.
z0mgz starcraft
Icks
Profile Joined July 2009
France186 Posts
July 22 2010 12:05 GMT
#245
On July 22 2010 20:20 rasers wrote:
seems like me and some friends dont need 2 sacrifice the whole life 2 be "good" at wow srsly..
this blablalb wow kills soooooooo much time is just bullshit. u freaking dont need 2 raid every single night and so on.
if they nerd so much wow they will also nerd so much SCII and "waste time" has nothing 2 do with the game. people that just cant say "no i wont come today" are the "nerds" and they will do it in every game.
i mean "i quit a game 2 play a different game" if he doesnt nerd this new game so freaking much he could easily play both games couldnt he?.
You're wrong.
Personnaly I stopped playing mid-Burning Crusade, and i was in a high PvE guild. "High rank" in the guild.
I did miss some raid nights, but each time, the day after it felt like you missed something.
Then sometimes, the guild needs you to be there for a special encounter.
Then sometimes, the guild needs you to be there and ready, full buff etc...
It has nothing to do with being "good at wow" as you say, because it doesn't really mean anything. It has to do with a social group which relies to you.
I think WoW has changed a bit since this time, and it's easier to cope with roaster changes, but back in the days, a raid night could be cancelled because one tank was missing.

So anyway, as soon as i stopped WoW, even if it was years ago,i started waiting for SCII for these precise reasons (amongst others), as some others have already told it in this thread...
Read to learn.
Apolo
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal1259 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 12:28:24
July 22 2010 12:19 GMT
#246
I played a bit of mmorpg called Lineage 2 but there's really no point. More than 50% of combat is due to guear or numbers. I had enough of losing to less skilled players that thought they were the better than me - winning simply because they had better equipment (more time spent farming or botting) and had double the number of players. I'd rather lose because i didn't play good enough, and give kudos to my opponent for playing better. That's why i'll never play mmorpgs again, they're a complete and uter waste of time.

If any player currently addicted to WoW or other mmorpg reads this, quit the game, and play something else where there's no sense of false confidence given by guear or numbers, like FPS or RTS like SC2. Whatever feeling of accomplishment you may get out of the mmorpg can be hugely atributed to things outside of yourself (guear, clan), which gives you a false sense of power. On the other hand, FPS or RTS, you can pick any computer and any account and still be good, and that's much more real and fulfilling.
Ohdamn
Profile Joined June 2010
Germany765 Posts
July 22 2010 13:16 GMT
#247
same here for my
but "only" 5years of wow <3
"If you can chill....chill!"
putrio
Profile Joined May 2010
United States35 Posts
July 22 2010 13:52 GMT
#248
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 22 2010 08:50 Two wrote:
BEFORE READING:
This is just a little introduction about myself and why I think it is such a good idea to quit WoW for SC2. If you don't have a couple minutes to read then don't bother trolling me or anything, thank you ;D

I don't know where I should be posting this, but this looks like the best place since I am quitting WoW for Starcraft 2. If anyone cares, i'll tell you guys a little bit about my past experiences with the Blizzard games and how much I have enjoyed them.

Starcraft was THE first Blizzard game I played and the first online game I played. Never playing competatively (obviously) at such a young age. I was in love with this awesome game. A couple years later I got into Diablo - Diablo 2 - Diablo exp. Then Warcraft. Finally WoW. I started playing WoW around December 2005 (almost 6 years). I made a Rogue named Two and have played him ever since. After playing a Rogue (and only a Rogue) for almost 6 years, my skill increased due to the stupid amount of hours I put into this game. Arenas were my thing... the competative aspect of WoW. I obtained the "Gladiator" title many seasons.

The day I found out about SC2 release, I pre-ordered the game... then eventually got my beta key. I was terrible at the game and got frustrated how easily I lost. Being a Zerg player didn't make things any easier. I couldn't just block off my base and get tanks and turrets like terran could.

Anyways ~ Here are some good things about quitting WoW for SC2

1) WoW costs $15 a month
2) WoW can be highly addictive (not saying that sc2 isn't addictive)
3) In WoW (if you play competatively) the skill cap isn't NEARLY as high as it is in SC2

#3 is one of the main reasons I quit WoW. Starcraft just has a rediculously high skill cap... If you lose, you know it's because you played it wrong and NOT because your gear wasn't as good, or you were outnumbered.

I just wanted to introduce myself to the TeamLiquid members and tell you guys how much I enjoy the warm community.

Thank you so much
<2

Edit: I have not been playing WoW for exactly 6 years.. But a very long time =P



I unsubscribed to WoW the day I got access to the beta, and haven't looked back. I will admit that I'll probably buy the Cataclysm expansion, just to see all the new content...but 4 80s later, I grew tired of the game. Way too much time to invest to clear all the content. Whoever made the comment on 20 minutes being useless in WoW but being enough time to play a game in SC2 was dead on. From day one, the game annoyed me because it wasn't skill based, it was time based...yet I allowed myself to get sucked into the addiction. Oh well, SC2 will do a good job of filling that role.
Do or do not, there is no try
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
July 22 2010 13:54 GMT
#249
Should rename this thread to WoWrehab
Pocketokun
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada74 Posts
July 22 2010 14:08 GMT
#250
welcome to Starcraft and TL :3 mind you i still play wow but not as obsessively as i used to in the beggining and SC will surely take most of my game time for a while now :D
If you gotta do something, DO IT
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
July 22 2010 14:32 GMT
#251
On July 22 2010 15:39 mrkent wrote:
Question to WoW players:

I heard somewhere before that Blizzard is trying to get wow players to transition into SC2. Considering WoW makes more money, that would be a bad business decision. Why do you guys think they'd try to do that? And have you seen blizzard actively trying to get players over?

Only thing I can think of is you guys start playing sc2, and then go back to cataclysm when it comes out. And then buy future sc2 expansions while continuing to play wow.


Well.. i guess their goal is to make us play the two games at the same time.
There is a lot of " down time " in WoW where u are just waiting for new content, starcraft seems to be a great way to pass time during these one.
And because you don't have to pay each month for Starcraft, playing both don't seems sensless.

Oh, and believe it or not, there will be a lot of players that will buy the collector edition just for the Thor mini-pet.
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
JrK
Profile Joined June 2010
United States283 Posts
July 22 2010 14:40 GMT
#252
I made the switch too.

I've been in desperate need of a game that is skill based. I want to get owned, and I want to get better and learn because of it. I don't like getting rofflestomped, and know my only way to get better is to play... more (or switch classes).

That, and bad community is bad.
JrKjrKJrk
accaris
Profile Joined May 2010
98 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 15:09:20
July 22 2010 15:06 GMT
#253
WoW and Starcraft 2 are two totally different types of games played for (usually) totally different reasons. They cannot possibly occupy the same role. If you enjoy both games, play both games recognizing their differences, and don't act like you're dumping some huge burden off your shoulders by quitting WoW. Because in the end, your life is still under the thumb of Blizzard Entertainment.
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
July 22 2010 16:34 GMT
#254
If WoW is the only game you play, and it certainly was for me, for a good 5 years, you save an absolute shitload of money. Its the equivalent of one video game every 4 months. It cost me about $900 for a subscription for those 5 years and I'm pretty sure I've easily spent that in the last 8 months alone. Let's see here:

Let me see, how much have I spent on video games since I quit in November?

Dragon Age ~$60
Dragon Age: Origins ~$40
Dawn of War 2 ~$50
Left4Dead2 + 2K Games pack (Civilization 4, Bioshock 1 & 2, Borderlands etc.) + Supreme Commander 2 on Steam ~ $120
Assassin's Creed 2 (XBox360) ~ $25
Starcraft 2 ~ $60

= $355 in 8 months, so at this rate, I'll need to play SC2, and old games I've already played, EXCLUSIVELY for the next 3 years, just to break even with what WoW cost me.

I just don't see that happening. WoW is very entertaining and very cheap.
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
July 22 2010 16:35 GMT
#255
this should be a blog

why is it 13 pages long
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
July 22 2010 16:42 GMT
#256
I'm quitting Wow too (account ends August 10) until the release of Cataclysm, and even then, I'm not sure I will subscribe again. My only regret is that I won't progress farther than 11/12HM in 25man ICC, but anyway with the constant boss nerfing and the Hellscream buff, pve has became more or less pointless. No more boss nerfing in Starcraft 2 !
o choro é livre
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 22 2010 16:55 GMT
#257
On July 22 2010 22:54 Snowfield wrote:
Should rename this thread to WoWrehab


Why? I never asked anyone to tell me their life stories about WoW. I was just telling people why I think SC2 is such a better game than WoW and that it has a higher skill cap than WoW will ever have. And on top of that it saves you some money =D
Keitzer
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2509 Posts
July 22 2010 17:02 GMT
#258
On July 23 2010 01:55 Two wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 22:54 Snowfield wrote:
Should rename this thread to WoWrehab


Why? I never asked anyone to tell me their life stories about WoW. I was just telling people why I think SC2 is such a better game than WoW and that it has a higher skill cap than WoW will ever have. And on top of that it saves you some money =D


wow's skill cap was back in Vanilla (aka first 2 years, aka, before Burning Crusade) where the combat was based on skill and tactics instead of gear. Ya there were some imbalances that dont exist today, but today it's mostly "I HAVE S8 GEAR, YOU HAVE S7, IMMA WIN 90% OF THE TIME!"

which is stupid because it takes the fun outta pvp, hence the "low skill cap"

remember FoTM pallies at the beginning of WoTLK? ya, THAT was low skill cap.

Starcraft 2 is def. gonna blow WoW outta the water compared to the current version of WoW, but comparing it to the first few years of launch, SC2 is only slightly ahead, but still higher
I'm like badass squared | KeitZer.489
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
July 22 2010 17:03 GMT
#259
On July 23 2010 01:55 Two wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 22:54 Snowfield wrote:
Should rename this thread to WoWrehab


Why? I never asked anyone to tell me their life stories about WoW. I was just telling people why I think SC2 is such a better game than WoW and that it has a higher skill cap than WoW will ever have. And on top of that it saves you some money =D


It's what it has come to
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 22 2010 17:09 GMT
#260
On July 23 2010 02:02 Keitzer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 01:55 Two wrote:
On July 22 2010 22:54 Snowfield wrote:
Should rename this thread to WoWrehab


Why? I never asked anyone to tell me their life stories about WoW. I was just telling people why I think SC2 is such a better game than WoW and that it has a higher skill cap than WoW will ever have. And on top of that it saves you some money =D


wow's skill cap was back in Vanilla (aka first 2 years, aka, before Burning Crusade) where the combat was based on skill and tactics instead of gear. Ya there were some imbalances that dont exist today, but today it's mostly "I HAVE S8 GEAR, YOU HAVE S7, IMMA WIN 90% OF THE TIME!"

which is stupid because it takes the fun outta pvp, hence the "low skill cap"

remember FoTM pallies at the beginning of WoTLK? ya, THAT was low skill cap.

Starcraft 2 is def. gonna blow WoW outta the water compared to the current version of WoW, but comparing it to the first few years of launch, SC2 is only slightly ahead, but still higher


Keitzer I agree with only half of what you said. I remember back in Vanilla I (as a rogue) could open up with a CS > KS and kill someone. I think that the game was most balanced during s1-s4ish

But to be honest I think that WoW wasn't even really intended to be THAT competative of a game.
NarutoSC
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada30 Posts
July 22 2010 17:13 GMT
#261
this still goin on? haha. ya wow pvp was fun.. until you got the pve hardcore players with their op items ruining it.

blizzard should have made arena only items. that way it would be fair to everyone. like in the tournaments... they used the same gear choice for all players.. so the skill would shine.

the way it was on live servers was weak. i remember so many bad players with good pve gear, simply cause they had 6 hours a day, 5 nights a week to raid. then they would show in arena and sweep up all the hard working arena players lol. it was funny, cause for time, i was GM of my guild, and i got to feel how unfair this advantage was to the arena players having to go against pve weapons and armors.

if they allowed arena only items, it woulda been really good.
www.youtube.com/NarutoStarcraft
Apolo
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal1259 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 17:21:01
July 22 2010 17:18 GMT
#262
On July 22 2010 17:01 nepitolko wrote:
Wow is time consuming?
Every game is if you want to be good at it 4 hours a day cause of arenas/raids... Nearly every one of you spend more time playing SC2 Don't get me wrong i love SC2.


The difference is that those 4 hours a day you're not improving any skill. Your real life self is not improving in any way, whereas in SC2 you're getting better at multitasking and strategy, and you can pick any computer anywhere with SC2 and be as good, while if they put all the people of WoW with the same guear, probably the best players wouldn't be the best anymore. What gets better in WoW with time spent playing is mostly the character, not the player. That's a big difference right there .

Good luck with your (and everyone else's) qitting. Enjoy you're sudden free time.
Orion_2kTC
Profile Joined May 2010
United States80 Posts
July 22 2010 17:26 GMT
#263
I played EQ for 3 years and after that I played WoW for 4 years. I've been MMORPG clean for 15 months. It's a great feeling. Especially for your social life. I still look back and think of all the time I wasted.
Mnijykmirl
Profile Joined February 2010
United States299 Posts
July 22 2010 17:26 GMT
#264
Games like WoW have you wanting to play when you're not, and hating it when you are.
Games like Starcraft have you not wanting to play when you're not, and loving it when you are.
Akariss
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada3 Posts
July 22 2010 17:29 GMT
#265
Since I felt it appropriate to post my first post here, since I too am quitting WoW for SC2, basically the same story as the OP, WoW is not my childhood video game but starcraft was.

Definitely a great feeling to be playing a game with many good memories.

I just hope the entertainment of SC2 isn't addictive to the extent WoW was but yet keeps away from going back to it.
smurfdevil
Profile Joined July 2010
Kosovo38 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 17:35:35
July 22 2010 17:35 GMT
#266
I don't think many of us did play 4 hours a day during the beta in average... that is ...much.
more than a third of the people here on the board did not even play more than 50 matches in phase 2 (38%).

so if you want to get better, you play like dozens of games. But hey, you play 4 hours a day wow and there is no improvement... except your character probably gains some better numbers.. so go on grind wow for some improvement of you character, but no improvement of yourself at all.
rpg's work different. and after all, in sc2 you mess your skill with your opponent, not your items
rjT.
Profile Joined May 2008
Italy295 Posts
July 22 2010 17:36 GMT
#267
"Quitting Wow" These 2 words are enough to let me say you , WELL DONE!
HubertFelix
Profile Joined April 2010
France631 Posts
July 22 2010 17:36 GMT
#268
On July 23 2010 02:26 Mnijykmirl wrote:
Games like WoW have you wanting to play when you're not, and hating it when you are.
Games like Starcraft have you not wanting to play when you're not, and loving it when you are.


Games like Starcraft have you wanting to play when you're not, and loving it when you are :p
Insight.9
Profile Joined July 2010
United Kingdom79 Posts
July 22 2010 17:38 GMT
#269
Recognise the name Two too. Quit WoW also this year, 2 days before I got a SC2 key. Best decision ever, WotLK is trash. Enjoy the game.
"There is nothing more cool than being proud of the things that you love." Day[9]
Kambing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1176 Posts
July 22 2010 17:59 GMT
#270
On July 23 2010 02:18 Duelist wrote:
The difference is that those 4 hours a day you're not improving any skill. Your real life self is not improving in any way, whereas in SC2 you're getting better at multitasking and strategy


That's a pretty silly statement to make. PVP in wow (arenas in particular) clearly exercise these same sorts of skills, e.g., juggling crowd control under pressure while still putting out damage or healing or planning when to go for kills via cc chains, simply applying offensive pressure, or playing defensively to ride out your opponents cooldowns.

WOW pvp has it's own gameplay problems that hamper it from continuing to rise in prominence in esports, in particular the compromise the developers strike between pve and pvp balance. However you can't dismiss wow as "not improving any skill" without dismissing (virtually) every other competitive video game in the same manner.
faction123
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Belgium949 Posts
July 22 2010 18:02 GMT
#271
i never had any problems casually playing wow, sounds like self control problems all up in this thread
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 18:04:55
July 22 2010 18:04 GMT
#272
--- Nuked ---
ilbh
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil1606 Posts
July 22 2010 18:15 GMT
#273
On July 23 2010 03:02 faction123 wrote:
i never had any problems casually playing wow, sounds like self control problems all up in this thread


its more like that in WoW if you want to be at the top level, you will have to play for hours and hours. that is boring and so much time consuming. that is why I quit it. not to mention that you need other people playing it at high level too...
Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
July 22 2010 18:20 GMT
#274
On July 23 2010 03:15 ilbh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 03:02 faction123 wrote:
i never had any problems casually playing wow, sounds like self control problems all up in this thread


its more like that in WoW if you want to be at the top level, you will have to play for hours and hours. that is boring and so much time consuming. that is why I quit it. not to mention that you need other people playing it at high level too...


And playing at a top level in SC2 is any different? You don't just magically have skill. You have to work at it.
Dolky
Profile Joined August 2004
Finland67 Posts
July 22 2010 18:37 GMT
#275
On July 23 2010 03:20 Bibdy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 03:15 ilbh wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:02 faction123 wrote:
i never had any problems casually playing wow, sounds like self control problems all up in this thread


its more like that in WoW if you want to be at the top level, you will have to play for hours and hours. that is boring and so much time consuming. that is why I quit it. not to mention that you need other people playing it at high level too...


And playing at a top level in SC2 is any different? You don't just magically have skill. You have to work at it.


Because with WoW its mostly about how many hours you can pour into mind numbingly boring gear and currency farming that enables you to play at high level. Instead of actually practising the gameplay. Imagine having to just play the AI over and over again for hours each day to improve your chances when playing against real people in SC2.
ilbh
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil1606 Posts
July 22 2010 18:41 GMT
#276
On July 23 2010 03:20 Bibdy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 03:15 ilbh wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:02 faction123 wrote:
i never had any problems casually playing wow, sounds like self control problems all up in this thread


its more like that in WoW if you want to be at the top level, you will have to play for hours and hours. that is boring and so much time consuming. that is why I quit it. not to mention that you need other people playing it at high level too...


And playing at a top level in SC2 is any different? You don't just magically have skill. You have to work at it.


lol
I understand your point, it makes sense, but in WoW anyone can be at top level, you just have to play for hours and hours for some weeks. I don't have any hope of being at top level playing SC2 because the skill cap is absurdly high, making it almost impossible to be at top, so I just play it for fun.

I don't know if it makes sense to you, but if you play a game knowing that you are too close to be at the very top, you will try to be at it. that was the case with me in WoW.

In SC2, I play like 2/3 games in a row, which means like 30 minutes. then in another time in the day I play more 30 minutes and that's it. there is nothing inside WoW you can do like that. you will have to play for at the very least 2 continually hours, because everything on WoW is long.

if you find arena partners, they won't allow you in the team if you only show up for 30 minutes. they want someone to play at least 2 hours per day. so, arenas are excluded for someone who only wants to play 30 minutes at a time, like me.

the same occur with raiding. 24 or 9 people won't call you to raid if you can only raid for 30 minutes. 30 minutes is a joke for raiding.

in WoW you can only level alts or do BGs if you want to play the same way I do with SC2 (30 minutes sporadically during the day). so, I got completely bored of doing BGs or leveling alts.


Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
Apolo
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal1259 Posts
July 22 2010 18:43 GMT
#277
On July 23 2010 02:59 Kambing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 02:18 Duelist wrote:
The difference is that those 4 hours a day you're not improving any skill. Your real life self is not improving in any way, whereas in SC2 you're getting better at multitasking and strategy


That's a pretty silly statement to make. PVP in wow (arenas in particular) clearly exercise these same sorts of skills, e.g., juggling crowd control under pressure while still putting out damage or healing or planning when to go for kills via cc chains, simply applying offensive pressure, or playing defensively to ride out your opponents cooldowns.

WOW pvp has it's own gameplay problems that hamper it from continuing to rise in prominence in esports, in particular the compromise the developers strike between pve and pvp balance. However you can't dismiss wow as "not improving any skill" without dismissing (virtually) every other competitive video game in the same manner.


And how can you pvp competitively without competitive guear? You can't. You might indeed gain skills by practicing pvp, but they won't do much good compared to someone that spent the same time farming.
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
July 22 2010 18:45 GMT
#278
On July 23 2010 02:18 Duelist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 22 2010 17:01 nepitolko wrote:
Wow is time consuming?
Every game is if you want to be good at it 4 hours a day cause of arenas/raids... Nearly every one of you spend more time playing SC2 Don't get me wrong i love SC2.


The difference is that those 4 hours a day you're not improving any skill. Your real life self is not improving in any way, whereas in SC2 you're getting better at multitasking and strategy, and you can pick any computer anywhere with SC2 and be as good, while if they put all the people of WoW with the same guear, probably the best players wouldn't be the best anymore. What gets better in WoW with time spent playing is mostly the character, not the player. That's a big difference right there .

Good luck with your (and everyone else's) qitting. Enjoy you're sudden free time.

the difference is that the entirety of this 4 hours you're spending putting up with unbearable cunts, while in SC, even if you encounter some, you generally can bash their e-faces in.
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
Roggay
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland6320 Posts
July 22 2010 18:52 GMT
#279
I did exactly the same, played WoW since the beginning playing rogue only for arena and the competition. And now I quit WoW to play sc2. But I have been interrested in Starcraft for a while now, watching it, but I never had the courage to really play it myself (Incredibly hard to learn and I didnt had any friends who cared about starcraft). Now I take starcraft II as a chance to transition, and I really love that game. It is much more competitive than WoW and you don't have to rely on others or on stupid PvE gear to do well.
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 19:02:55
July 22 2010 18:56 GMT
#280
On July 23 2010 03:37 Dolky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 03:20 Bibdy wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:15 ilbh wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:02 faction123 wrote:
i never had any problems casually playing wow, sounds like self control problems all up in this thread


its more like that in WoW if you want to be at the top level, you will have to play for hours and hours. that is boring and so much time consuming. that is why I quit it. not to mention that you need other people playing it at high level too...


And playing at a top level in SC2 is any different? You don't just magically have skill. You have to work at it.


Because with WoW its mostly about how many hours you can pour into mind numbingly boring gear and currency farming that enables you to play at high level. Instead of actually practising the gameplay. Imagine having to just play the AI over and over again for hours each day to improve your chances when playing against real people in SC2.


Its not practice OR improving your character. There's no black and white...you improve in skill as your character improves. Its just an upfront time investment in order to compete. But, if you enjoy the process of BGs, the occasional Wintergrasp brawl and stuff you need to do to get that gear, then what's the problem?

Its not like the day the new Season starts all the top players have a full set of gear already. Everyone starts the same race at the same time. If you're a good player, you'll already have the same set of awesome gear they've got and now you're both slowly improving your character as the Season progresses.

Its just a gameplay formula. Yeah, its different to SC2 where a new player can just jump right in and compete on an even playing field, but either way you still need to work your ass off to understand the metagame, different compositions, what to use, when, where, on what and so on.

Claiming that top-level WoW PvP is all about gear and numbers its just mind-bogglingly retarded. The same crowd of hardcore gamers play SC2 as they do WoW.

If there's one thing true about hardcore gamers its that they can find a way to turn anything into an intense competition.

Complaining about gear, teammates and what numbers you were dealt is just an excuse.
Kambing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1176 Posts
July 22 2010 19:02 GMT
#281
On July 23 2010 03:43 Duelist wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 02:59 Kambing wrote:
On July 23 2010 02:18 Duelist wrote:
The difference is that those 4 hours a day you're not improving any skill. Your real life self is not improving in any way, whereas in SC2 you're getting better at multitasking and strategy


That's a pretty silly statement to make. PVP in wow (arenas in particular) clearly exercise these same sorts of skills, e.g., juggling crowd control under pressure while still putting out damage or healing or planning when to go for kills via cc chains, simply applying offensive pressure, or playing defensively to ride out your opponents cooldowns.

WOW pvp has it's own gameplay problems that hamper it from continuing to rise in prominence in esports, in particular the compromise the developers strike between pve and pvp balance. However you can't dismiss wow as "not improving any skill" without dismissing (virtually) every other competitive video game in the same manner.


And how can you pvp competitively without competitive guear? You can't. You might indeed gain skills by practicing pvp, but they won't do much good compared to someone that spent the same time farming.


The short answer is: play on the tournament realm where gear is standard issue and fixed to the current season.

The long answer is: spend the week or two farming the gear necessary to start playing at a "competitive" level. Getting a current set of off-set gear and previous season on-set gear is trivial to do for a new or out-of-date toon. Alternatively, just get in there and stomp on the people that farmed the gear but don't know how to pvp and acquire the gear over time. Sure you won't be able to get a shadowmourne or heroic dfo this way, but you can surely play at a competitive level with the gear readily available by just pvping.
Intr3pid
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Switzerland336 Posts
July 22 2010 19:03 GMT
#282
I quit WoW almost a year ago and immediately switched to SC and TL. The nice thing is that the community here is much more grown up, the game is at least as fun as WoW and you can actually work and have a decent RL while doing all this. Which wasn't possible for me with WoW (being GM and Maintank).
Roggay
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland6320 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 19:07:40
July 22 2010 19:05 GMT
#283
On July 23 2010 03:56 Bibdy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 03:37 Dolky wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:20 Bibdy wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:15 ilbh wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:02 faction123 wrote:
i never had any problems casually playing wow, sounds like self control problems all up in this thread


its more like that in WoW if you want to be at the top level, you will have to play for hours and hours. that is boring and so much time consuming. that is why I quit it. not to mention that you need other people playing it at high level too...


And playing at a top level in SC2 is any different? You don't just magically have skill. You have to work at it.


Because with WoW its mostly about how many hours you can pour into mind numbingly boring gear and currency farming that enables you to play at high level. Instead of actually practising the gameplay. Imagine having to just play the AI over and over again for hours each day to improve your chances when playing against real people in SC2.


Its not practice OR improving your character. There's no black and white...you improve in skill as your character improves. Its just an upfront time investment in order to compete. But, if you enjoy the process of BGs, the occasional Wintergrasp brawl and stuff you need to do to get that gear, then what's the problem?

Its not like the day the new Season starts all the top players have a full set of gear already. Everyone starts the same race at the same time. If you're a good player, you'll already have the same set of awesome gear they've got and now you're both slowly improving your character as the Season progresses.

Its just a gameplay formula. Yeah, its different to SC2 where a new player can just jump right in and compete on an even playing field, but either way you still need to work your ass off to understand the metagame, different compositions, what to use, when, where, on what and so on.

Claiming that top-level WoW PvP is all about gear and numbers its just mind-bogglingly retarded. The same crowd of hardcore gamers play SC2 as they do WoW.

If there's one thing true about hardcore gamers is that they can find a way to turn anything in an intense competition.


The fact is : if you want to really succeed at high level arena, you need end game PvE gear (depends on the class but as a rogue, like me, yes). I hated PvE, the fact to kill the same stupid boss again and again, to be ninja looted by some arrogant bastard and so on, all I cared was to do arena. My gear was made only with PvP parts and I was kind of blocked by that (I still managed to reach 2500+) and I hated that part of WoW.
Bibdy
Profile Joined March 2010
United States3481 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 19:13:11
July 22 2010 19:11 GMT
#284
On July 23 2010 04:05 Roggay wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 03:56 Bibdy wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:37 Dolky wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:20 Bibdy wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:15 ilbh wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:02 faction123 wrote:
i never had any problems casually playing wow, sounds like self control problems all up in this thread


its more like that in WoW if you want to be at the top level, you will have to play for hours and hours. that is boring and so much time consuming. that is why I quit it. not to mention that you need other people playing it at high level too...


And playing at a top level in SC2 is any different? You don't just magically have skill. You have to work at it.


Because with WoW its mostly about how many hours you can pour into mind numbingly boring gear and currency farming that enables you to play at high level. Instead of actually practising the gameplay. Imagine having to just play the AI over and over again for hours each day to improve your chances when playing against real people in SC2.


Its not practice OR improving your character. There's no black and white...you improve in skill as your character improves. Its just an upfront time investment in order to compete. But, if you enjoy the process of BGs, the occasional Wintergrasp brawl and stuff you need to do to get that gear, then what's the problem?

Its not like the day the new Season starts all the top players have a full set of gear already. Everyone starts the same race at the same time. If you're a good player, you'll already have the same set of awesome gear they've got and now you're both slowly improving your character as the Season progresses.

Its just a gameplay formula. Yeah, its different to SC2 where a new player can just jump right in and compete on an even playing field, but either way you still need to work your ass off to understand the metagame, different compositions, what to use, when, where, on what and so on.

Claiming that top-level WoW PvP is all about gear and numbers its just mind-bogglingly retarded. The same crowd of hardcore gamers play SC2 as they do WoW.

If there's one thing true about hardcore gamers is that they can find a way to turn anything in an intense competition.


The fact is : if you want to really succeed at high level arena, you need end game PvE gear (depends on the class but as a rogue, like me, yes). I hated PvE, the fact to kill the same stupid boss again and again, to be ninja looted by some arrogant bastard and so on, all I cared was to do arena. My gear was made only with PvP parts and I was kind of blocked by that (I still managed to reach 2500+) and I hated that part of WoW.


Oh bullshit. The odd trinket or legendary weapon will improve your odds, but they don't make or break your ability to compete. You act like the top #500 spots are utterly consumed by the perfect team composition, with a bunch of Shadowmournes and crazy-ass trinkets from heroic ICC. That's hardly the case.

Its just a game of odds and chances. Yeah, if my Warlock was decked out in S8 gear right now, he'd have a better rating than his sorry ass sitting in S6/7, but that doesn't mean I can't enter an arena and hit the 2k rating needed to get all of the good stuff for full S8 and THEN push up to the top levels. The only thing holding me back is my desire to do it.
Roggay
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland6320 Posts
July 22 2010 19:17 GMT
#285
On July 23 2010 04:11 Bibdy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 04:05 Roggay wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:56 Bibdy wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:37 Dolky wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:20 Bibdy wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:15 ilbh wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:02 faction123 wrote:
i never had any problems casually playing wow, sounds like self control problems all up in this thread


its more like that in WoW if you want to be at the top level, you will have to play for hours and hours. that is boring and so much time consuming. that is why I quit it. not to mention that you need other people playing it at high level too...


And playing at a top level in SC2 is any different? You don't just magically have skill. You have to work at it.


Because with WoW its mostly about how many hours you can pour into mind numbingly boring gear and currency farming that enables you to play at high level. Instead of actually practising the gameplay. Imagine having to just play the AI over and over again for hours each day to improve your chances when playing against real people in SC2.


Its not practice OR improving your character. There's no black and white...you improve in skill as your character improves. Its just an upfront time investment in order to compete. But, if you enjoy the process of BGs, the occasional Wintergrasp brawl and stuff you need to do to get that gear, then what's the problem?

Its not like the day the new Season starts all the top players have a full set of gear already. Everyone starts the same race at the same time. If you're a good player, you'll already have the same set of awesome gear they've got and now you're both slowly improving your character as the Season progresses.

Its just a gameplay formula. Yeah, its different to SC2 where a new player can just jump right in and compete on an even playing field, but either way you still need to work your ass off to understand the metagame, different compositions, what to use, when, where, on what and so on.

Claiming that top-level WoW PvP is all about gear and numbers its just mind-bogglingly retarded. The same crowd of hardcore gamers play SC2 as they do WoW.

If there's one thing true about hardcore gamers is that they can find a way to turn anything in an intense competition.


The fact is : if you want to really succeed at high level arena, you need end game PvE gear (depends on the class but as a rogue, like me, yes). I hated PvE, the fact to kill the same stupid boss again and again, to be ninja looted by some arrogant bastard and so on, all I cared was to do arena. My gear was made only with PvP parts and I was kind of blocked by that (I still managed to reach 2500+) and I hated that part of WoW.


Oh bullshit. The odd trinket or legendary weapon will improve your odds, but they don't make or break your ability to compete. You act like the top #500 spots are utterly consumed by the perfect team composition, with a bunch of Shadowmournes and crazy-ass trinkets from heroic ICC. That's hardly the case.


I'm playing Rogue and I know what I'm talking about. Nearly all the top rogues play with a lot of PvE gear, because it is so much more optimised. And I'm not talking about only trinkets or weapons but mostly of necklace, rings, boots etc...
faction123
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Belgium949 Posts
July 22 2010 19:20 GMT
#286
arguing about the gearing is pretty redundant when wow doesn't even come close to any other game in skill required
ilbh
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil1606 Posts
July 22 2010 19:34 GMT
#287
you don't need that much gear to be good at WoW. I mean for PvP, ofc.
I have seen a lot of people getting high rated with not so good gear.

the problem is that there is more than a year people is level 80, so, nowadays eveyone have really really high level gear, both PvP and PvE, making it harder for someone that just got to 80.

to the people saying that WoW requires no skill, why don't you just get into the arena tournaments and get rich? hahaha
Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
GeminiOne
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany87 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 20:08:37
July 22 2010 20:07 GMT
#288
Everyone who says you need no skill for wow has never played a challenging pve encounter in heroic mode....the prob is....you need not only 1 skilled player to kill a difficult hero boss....you need 25... ;P
And those people need to have practice playing together in a team.
You can't even compare an mmo and an rts game.

If you don't like playing an mmo then don't play it and stop whining and flaming here.
Rabiator
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany3948 Posts
July 22 2010 20:24 GMT
#289
The harder an encounter is for you the more excitement it brings when you actually manage it. Because of this you actually enjoy success more with bad gear than you do with top of the notch gear. Obviously this works only reasonably well for PvE, but PvP is a shitload of junk anyway and arena ruined the whole game. PvP is only good if it is world-PvP like we had in Southshore vs. Tarren Mill.
If you cant say what you're meaning, you can never mean what you're saying.
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 22 2010 20:27 GMT
#290
On July 23 2010 04:20 faction123 wrote:
arguing about the gearing is pretty redundant when wow doesn't even come close to any other game in skill required


really?

really really?

I hope you're exaggerating.
Like a G6
thehitman
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
1105 Posts
July 22 2010 20:29 GMT
#291
good job, you should have quit WOW a lot earlier though, you would have saved lots of money and time!
SONE
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada839 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 20:32:41
July 22 2010 20:32 GMT
#292
why are people still complaining and arguing about wow, and why it was competitive or not.

you've moved on to better things just forget about it
Deckkie
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands1595 Posts
July 22 2010 20:40 GMT
#293
can't imagine WoW really requires skill :p
learned something new today ...
Always look on the bright side of life
Baarn
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2702 Posts
July 22 2010 20:52 GMT
#294
On July 23 2010 03:15 ilbh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 03:02 faction123 wrote:
i never had any problems casually playing wow, sounds like self control problems all up in this thread


its more like that in WoW if you want to be at the top level, you will have to play for hours and hours. that is boring and so much time consuming. that is why I quit it. not to mention that you need other people playing it at high level too...


Yeah and what makes you think you'll be in diamond in a year if you play a few hours a week?
There's no S in KT. :P
ilbh
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Brazil1606 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 21:39:23
July 22 2010 21:38 GMT
#295
On July 23 2010 05:52 Baarn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 03:15 ilbh wrote:
On July 23 2010 03:02 faction123 wrote:
i never had any problems casually playing wow, sounds like self control problems all up in this thread


its more like that in WoW if you want to be at the top level, you will have to play for hours and hours. that is boring and so much time consuming. that is why I quit it. not to mention that you need other people playing it at high level too...


Yeah and what makes you think you'll be in diamond in a year if you play a few hours a week?


if not in the asian server, you really don't need a year to get into diamond. and I answered similar post one page backwards explaining my point of view...

I have only US server experience and in the US server its really easy to get to diamond...
Part of the inhumanity of the computer is that, once it is competently programmed and working smoothly, it is completely honest.
Zocat
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2229 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 21:46:09
July 22 2010 21:44 GMT
#296
On July 23 2010 03:56 Bibdy wrote:
If there's one thing true about hardcore gamers its that they can find a way to turn anything into an intense competition.



Yeah - I can agree with this. A lot of people in this thread seem just to bash "other" games, which require different skill sets.
WoW PVP requires a level of coordination (with the teampartners) which is far superior compared to SC.
A (teambased) FPS player may need a similiar level of coordination, a good strategy and also needs good aiming.
A 1vs1 FPS player needs the same aiming as well as a good deal of mindgames.
SC players need a good strategy and have high APM to do the things they want to do.
A chess player doesnt need those high APM - but chess is not easier than SC on a wider scale.

Every game needs a "unique" (of course some games are extremely similiar) skillset.
There is no "harder" or "easier" - just different.


Edit:
You didnt need to spend 4hours / day to be a world best PVE player in WoW. Wonder where this stupid idea originates from... 10hours / week are more than enough to play world top 50.
DannyJ
Profile Joined March 2010
United States5110 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-22 22:25:17
July 22 2010 22:16 GMT
#297


Every game needs a "unique" (of course some games are extremely similiar) skillset.
There is no "harder" or "easier" - just different.



I really don't think you can argue that SC2 isn't "harder" than a game like WoW. WoW, at it's peak of competitiveness, requires reflexes and timing that far more people have compared to the skillset needed to be a top SC2 player.

Saying they are just different really doesn't cut it.

Edit: Oh, and yeah more on topic, I too quit WoW, over a year ago. Once Death Knights came into PvP it was just the final straw for me. Don't get me wrong, i liked spamming ONE spell all the way to gladiator, but somehow that got old...

I still miss vanilla WoW, that was definitely the most fun I've ever had in a video game.
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
July 22 2010 22:43 GMT
#298
I made this movie for you

Zocat
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2229 Posts
July 22 2010 22:59 GMT
#299
On July 23 2010 07:16 DannyJ wrote:
Show nested quote +


Every game needs a "unique" (of course some games are extremely similiar) skillset.
There is no "harder" or "easier" - just different.



I really don't think you can argue that SC2 isn't "harder" than a game like WoW. WoW, at it's peak of competitiveness, requires reflexes and timing that far more people have compared to the skillset needed to be a top SC2 player.


As I mentioned, the coordination with teammembers is the harder part in WoW. It takes "timing" to a whole other level
Kambing
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1176 Posts
July 22 2010 23:02 GMT
#300
On July 23 2010 07:16 DannyJ wrote:
Show nested quote +


Every game needs a "unique" (of course some games are extremely similiar) skillset.
There is no "harder" or "easier" - just different.



I really don't think you can argue that SC2 isn't "harder" than a game like WoW. WoW, at it's peak of competitiveness, requires reflexes and timing that far more people have compared to the skillset needed to be a top SC2 player.

Saying they are just different really doesn't cut it.


Surely it does. For reasonable pairs of games, how do you fairly compare the skills required of one game with another, especially when they are in different genres? An individual may find one game easier than another, but that is more of a function of their own aptitude rather than the innate difficulty of the required skill. For example, how can you judge one sport to be "harder" than the other, e.g., baseball and football?

Also, your example of DK icy touch spamming is comparable to 1-food roaches. Both are powerful, one trick ponies, that many people banked on to great success. Both are also techniques that have since been nerfed by blizzard because they were deemed overpowered.
SilentCrono
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1420 Posts
July 22 2010 23:02 GMT
#301
WoW was fun for like 6 months lol. then i quit.
♞ Your soul will forever be lost in the void of a horse. ♞
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 22 2010 23:44 GMT
#302
Thanks for that movie, it made me giggle ;D
Copes
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada80 Posts
July 22 2010 23:45 GMT
#303
I hear ya. Played from release and quit in February in order to follow up to the release of SC2. Never been happier. WoW was too time consuming, and the game hasn't really been fun since Vanilla in my opinion.

Bring on the SC2.
rasers
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden691 Posts
July 23 2010 00:51 GMT
#304
seems like iam a genius. since i had awesome gear and still didn truin my life OLOLO.

and srsly...i didnt read everything but some people saying they waste time with wow and now they switch to SCII? WTF?! like u dont waste time playing SCII u dont get anything out of it either if u dont become a pro.
if u become a pro u have 2 play alot more.
gonna hart 2 here this blablabla wow so bad for u u play so much u HAVE 2 play so much blalal

either ima lucky or just a freaking genius. not sure right now.
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 23 2010 01:06 GMT
#305
On July 23 2010 09:51 rasers wrote:
seems like iam a genius. since i had awesome gear and still didn truin my life OLOLO.

and srsly...i didnt read everything but some people saying they waste time with wow and now they switch to SCII? WTF?! like u dont waste time playing SCII u dont get anything out of it either if u dont become a pro.
if u become a pro u have 2 play alot more.
gonna hart 2 here this blablabla wow so bad for u u play so much u HAVE 2 play so much blalal

either ima lucky or just a freaking genius. not sure right now.


Most people spend more time playing WoW than they would playing SC2. Wasting is well worth it if you're having fun, so why not? It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about you, just do what you want and play what you want.
Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
July 23 2010 01:06 GMT
#306
On July 23 2010 05:29 thehitman wrote:
good job, you should have quit WOW a lot earlier though, you would have saved lots of money and time!


U don't save money at playing other games than WoW actually. Because 13e / month is a lot cheaper than buy a 60/70e game frequently. :o
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 23 2010 01:08 GMT
#307
On July 23 2010 10:06 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 05:29 thehitman wrote:
good job, you should have quit WOW a lot earlier though, you would have saved lots of money and time!


U don't save money at playing other games than WoW actually. Because 13e / month is a lot cheaper than buy a 60/70e game frequently. :o


What if you don't buy game frequently? Say you buy SC2 and never buy any other game.. you're saving money.
Jibba
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States22883 Posts
July 23 2010 01:52 GMT
#308
On July 23 2010 10:06 Two wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 09:51 rasers wrote:
seems like iam a genius. since i had awesome gear and still didn truin my life OLOLO.

and srsly...i didnt read everything but some people saying they waste time with wow and now they switch to SCII? WTF?! like u dont waste time playing SCII u dont get anything out of it either if u dont become a pro.
if u become a pro u have 2 play alot more.
gonna hart 2 here this blablabla wow so bad for u u play so much u HAVE 2 play so much blalal

either ima lucky or just a freaking genius. not sure right now.


Most people spend more time playing WoW than they would playing SC2. Wasting is well worth it if you're having fun, so why not? It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about you, just do what you want and play what you want.

Is jumping on the bank really fun? o.o Or whatever equivalent people do in Wrath.
ModeratorNow I'm distant, dark in this anthrobeat
SONE
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada839 Posts
July 23 2010 01:59 GMT
#309
hopscotch in IF
kzn
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States1218 Posts
July 23 2010 02:00 GMT
#310
On July 23 2010 10:52 Jibba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 10:06 Two wrote:
On July 23 2010 09:51 rasers wrote:
seems like iam a genius. since i had awesome gear and still didn truin my life OLOLO.

and srsly...i didnt read everything but some people saying they waste time with wow and now they switch to SCII? WTF?! like u dont waste time playing SCII u dont get anything out of it either if u dont become a pro.
if u become a pro u have 2 play alot more.
gonna hart 2 here this blablabla wow so bad for u u play so much u HAVE 2 play so much blalal

either ima lucky or just a freaking genius. not sure right now.


Most people spend more time playing WoW than they would playing SC2. Wasting is well worth it if you're having fun, so why not? It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about you, just do what you want and play what you want.

Is jumping on the bank really fun? o.o Or whatever equivalent people do in Wrath.


Its more fun than doing absolutely nothing, which tends to be the alternative.
Like a G6
rasers
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden691 Posts
July 23 2010 05:01 GMT
#311
On July 23 2010 10:06 Two wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 09:51 rasers wrote:
seems like iam a genius. since i had awesome gear and still didn truin my life OLOLO.

and srsly...i didnt read everything but some people saying they waste time with wow and now they switch to SCII? WTF?! like u dont waste time playing SCII u dont get anything out of it either if u dont become a pro.
if u become a pro u have 2 play alot more.
gonna hart 2 here this blablabla wow so bad for u u play so much u HAVE 2 play so much blalal

either ima lucky or just a freaking genius. not sure right now.


Most people spend more time playing WoW than they would playing SC2. Wasting is well worth it if you're having fun, so why not? It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about you, just do what you want and play what you want.

ah moste people hm? well what od u think how much out of this million do u know 2 say "most"? its not about the game its the people so if they will also do it in SCII. i mean forexample i see osme posts "while i have a 30min break i can play 1 stacraft game" i mean srsly? ur telling me they are any "better" than any wow player in this case?

playing a freaking computergame when u have a break from work or whatever. (mb laso go 2 some inetcafee).

but i think i will call myself genius from now on. sinc ei can manage 2 not sacr my life and still be "good" at wow ! even tho i stopped a while ago xD
FlamingTurd
Profile Joined April 2010
United States1059 Posts
July 23 2010 06:08 GMT
#312
Gratz dude, just a tip: pull as many of ur WoW friends over here as well so u can pwn their noob asses and have some fun :-D
Nerf MMMT!!! Liquid`Ret Hwaiting!!!
rasers
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden691 Posts
July 23 2010 10:15 GMT
#313
"rl friends".
Salty
Profile Joined June 2010
United States90 Posts
July 23 2010 13:30 GMT
#314
Wow, this community really hates WoW. No pun intended.
Needs more salt.
Copes
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada80 Posts
July 23 2010 13:43 GMT
#315
I do have to jump in here and state that I really see no difference between WoW and SC2. It comes down to the player, the person behind the computer. If they have an addictive personality or find themselves enjoying a computer world more then the real world, they're going to obsess over whichever game they play. SC pros talk about playing 12 hour days. Some WoW players will play 12 hour days. When WoW expansions come out people will play for 24 hours straight. When SC2 comes out, many people here will play for 24 hours straight.

I think that SC2 is easier to play for small periods of time, because you can log on for half an hour and play a game or 2, where as WoW you'll accomplish minimal in that time. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to who's behind the computer and how obsessive they are.
MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
July 23 2010 13:45 GMT
#316
Welcome back to the real world. May your reformation away from WoW be permanent.
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
Santriell
Profile Joined June 2010
Belgium151 Posts
July 23 2010 13:47 GMT
#317
On July 22 2010 08:59 Snowfield wrote:
Competitive wow rofl

6 years.. i pity you :S


I pity his wallet.

6 years + game + add-ons = 1080$ + 60$ + 50$ + 50$ + 50$ = 1290, call it 1300 for this month too.

Interesting how blizzard has to set the price so high for SC2 considering the huge range of gaming prices when you can easily calculate wow has earned them 5 to 8 BILLION dollars...


By the clack smack cracking of my thumbs, something wicked this may comes.
Iron_
Profile Joined April 2010
United States389 Posts
July 23 2010 13:54 GMT
#318
I had to hang up WOW a couple of years ago because quite frankly, it was hurting the rest of my life. As you mentioned, once at a high level the only way to gain anything is to raid for many hours many days per week, and since its all clan stuff, its all on a schedule.

Being the best healer we had didnt help either, since I got "insta-invite" everytime I logged on. Within 5 seconds I was in a raid group and ready to blow through hours and not get good sleep.

Being ultra competitive I wanted the best gear and to be the best healer on the server, so I kept doing it. Much like any drug in order to solve the problem I had to quit completely, so I gave my gold away and left the game.

SC2 is awesome, and you can watch a quick recorded game in 10 minutes and actually improve. In the 4 hours you would spend in WOW there is a whole lot you can do in SC2. You made a good decision.
HubertFelix
Profile Joined April 2010
France631 Posts
July 23 2010 13:54 GMT
#319
Attacking wow on its price is dumb. 1300$ for 6 years of gaming? For how many hours?
Seriously, 1300$ for 6 years of entertainment is nothing, I don't know where you live to think the opposite.

Btw, all those wow players coming to sc2 is a very good thing. In ~1 years when they'll know how to play, sc2 competitive environment is going to be so big.
tarsier
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom223 Posts
July 23 2010 13:58 GMT
#320
world of warcraft is baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalls.

this sums up my time in world of warcraft:

"yay battlegrounds will be coming out next year"
"wow, battlegrounds is terrible"
"yay arena will be coming out next year"
"wow, arena is terrible"
"oh well, raiding is still okay i guess"
"wow, raiding is terrible, why the hell am i playing this game again?"
Meldrath
Profile Joined June 2010
United States620 Posts
July 23 2010 13:59 GMT
#321
I also quite wow after sc2 was annouced and I got a beta key. I intend to make a push for a semi pro career where I can get into tourneys and compete with the best. If anyone cares My character is actually Meldrath lvl 80 warlock on kelthuzad he had some of the best gear he could have while im playing allthought its 6 months or so old at this point so probably not that great anymore. haha I will possible devote some time to playing wow when the new expansion comes out if it doesnt absorb to much of my time from training in starcraft 2.
slap me I must be dreaming another "imba" arugment! fffffffffuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!!!
BeMannerDuPenner
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Germany5638 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 14:06:02
July 23 2010 14:03 GMT
#322
On July 23 2010 10:06 Two wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 09:51 rasers wrote:
seems like iam a genius. since i had awesome gear and still didn truin my life OLOLO.

and srsly...i didnt read everything but some people saying they waste time with wow and now they switch to SCII? WTF?! like u dont waste time playing SCII u dont get anything out of it either if u dont become a pro.
if u become a pro u have 2 play alot more.
gonna hart 2 here this blablabla wow so bad for u u play so much u HAVE 2 play so much blalal

either ima lucky or just a freaking genius. not sure right now.


Most people spend more time playing WoW than they would playing SC2. Wasting is well worth it if you're having fun, so why not? It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about you, just do what you want and play what you want.


thing is many people have very little "fun" in the game. yeah raiding can be fun. ya arena can be fun. but most people absolutely hate all the grinding (be it leveling,honor grind, gold grind, rep grind,badge grind...) that needs to be done to do the funstuff.

apart from simply not having enough time anymore and getting bored with the game overall i quit because i couldnt stand this shit anymore. i always was the guy that afkd battlegrounds, convinced others that paying for my reps/enchants/flasks is good etc. if i had to grind all the shit i needed to be "succesful" in the game i wouldve stopped way way earlier. note that i started playing mid BC so i didnt even see the "hardcore" days of vanilla wow where it was even worse.

sure there are many of those guys that really enjoy flying around a zone for 4 hours to mine/herb whatever, that love doing the same daylies 150 times ,that love leveling up their 5th char. but also there are many many people that hate 80% of their playtime but still do it because they want to have fun in the other 20%.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
smurfdevil
Profile Joined July 2010
Kosovo38 Posts
July 23 2010 14:28 GMT
#323
all switchers from wow will fall back anyway... at least when cataclysm comes
rpg's and mmo's live from the pseudo feeling of success... and that is why the gamers are playing this... you won't find a vicarious satisfaction in longer term of playing sc2 as you played wow.

wow is your life!
SpavaM
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Croatia175 Posts
July 23 2010 14:43 GMT
#324
On July 23 2010 22:43 Copes wrote:SC pros talk about playing 12 hour days. Some WoW players will play 12 hour days


The bolded parts made me lol.

The reason I dislike WoW players is the same reason body builders dislike Greg Valentino. When you see a ridiculous news report / talk show / whatever about gaming addiction, guess what game will be shown...

aka imagiNe... "What if Nydus worms could make my coffee, play 2v2 and close threads for me? That would be grand." - riptide
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 23 2010 14:45 GMT
#325
On July 23 2010 23:28 smurfdevil wrote:
all switchers from wow will fall back anyway... at least when cataclysm comes
rpg's and mmo's live from the pseudo feeling of success... and that is why the gamers are playing this... you won't find a vicarious satisfaction in longer term of playing sc2 as you played wow.

wow is your life!


I'm pretty sure I won't be going back to WoW anytime soon. That game is a drug. That's why im destroying my account ;D
Amnesia
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States3818 Posts
July 23 2010 15:01 GMT
#326
I quit SC2 long time ago and am playing WoW now. WoW is easily the better game.
Copes
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada80 Posts
July 23 2010 15:13 GMT
#327
On July 23 2010 23:43 SpavaM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 22:43 Copes wrote:SC pros talk about playing 12 hour days. Some WoW players will play 12 hour days


The bolded parts made me lol.

The reason I dislike WoW players is the same reason body builders dislike Greg Valentino. When you see a ridiculous news report / talk show / whatever about gaming addiction, guess what game will be shown...



I used that as an example because people here respect SC2 pros and wish they could be them. But then the same people will turn around and say "lawl 12 hours at a video game get a life". There are lots of SC2 players who don't make a dime who play it as much as people play WoW.

I'm not standing up for WoW. In fact I'm not standing up for either, I think 12 hours at a video game in any day is unhealthy. I rarely do that, and feel greasy when I do. My point is that one isn't more addicting then the other.

And in regards to cost I've never minded paying a monthly fee, because every patch is like a new game. That's why you can play it for so long, there's always something new to do.

That being said, bring on the SC2, I'm losing my mind waiting for it.
rasers
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden691 Posts
July 23 2010 17:03 GMT
#328
On July 23 2010 23:45 Two wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 23:28 smurfdevil wrote:
all switchers from wow will fall back anyway... at least when cataclysm comes
rpg's and mmo's live from the pseudo feeling of success... and that is why the gamers are playing this... you won't find a vicarious satisfaction in longer term of playing sc2 as you played wow.

wow is your life!


I'm pretty sure I won't be going back to WoW anytime soon. That game is a drug. That's why im destroying my account ;D

yup its the game not you.
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 23 2010 17:05 GMT
#329
On July 24 2010 00:01 Amnesia wrote:
I quit SC2 long time ago and am playing WoW now. WoW is easily the better game.


You quit SC2 a long time ago? The game isn't even out yet though!?! =]
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-23 17:20:55
July 23 2010 17:17 GMT
#330
On July 23 2010 23:03 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 23 2010 10:06 Two wrote:
On July 23 2010 09:51 rasers wrote:
seems like iam a genius. since i had awesome gear and still didn truin my life OLOLO.

and srsly...i didnt read everything but some people saying they waste time with wow and now they switch to SCII? WTF?! like u dont waste time playing SCII u dont get anything out of it either if u dont become a pro.
if u become a pro u have 2 play alot more.
gonna hart 2 here this blablabla wow so bad for u u play so much u HAVE 2 play so much blalal

either ima lucky or just a freaking genius. not sure right now.


Most people spend more time playing WoW than they would playing SC2. Wasting is well worth it if you're having fun, so why not? It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about you, just do what you want and play what you want.


thing is many people have very little "fun" in the game. yeah raiding can be fun. ya arena can be fun. but most people absolutely hate all the grinding (be it leveling,honor grind, gold grind, rep grind,badge grind...) that needs to be done to do the funstuff.

apart from simply not having enough time anymore and getting bored with the game overall i quit because i couldnt stand this shit anymore. i always was the guy that afkd battlegrounds, convinced others that paying for my reps/enchants/flasks is good etc. if i had to grind all the shit i needed to be "succesful" in the game i wouldve stopped way way earlier. note that i started playing mid BC so i didnt even see the "hardcore" days of vanilla wow where it was even worse.

sure there are many of those guys that really enjoy flying around a zone for 4 hours to mine/herb whatever, that love doing the same daylies 150 times ,that love leveling up their 5th char. but also there are many many people that hate 80% of their playtime but still do it because they want to have fun in the other 20%.



Or you could just be like me and not do the other 80%.

Basically I never did my dailies after I got my mount, not once, never did anything for proffesions, and mooched off my guildies and afked 24/7 in battlegrounds. I never showed up for progression nights, yet somehow still got slots for downing nights cuz our guild was understaffed.

I got my Arena partner to level engineering 0-424 for me. He finished two week before they nerfed rocket boots. He promptly punched me irl.

I got s5 deadly gladiator with a epic bracer from nax cuz I still hadn't finished grinding my honor shiz.

Everyone asked me if that Bracer was super good for arenas, and why, and I once saw this guy on my server run around in full deadly except with my random bracer. It was pretty lulzy.
Too Busy to Troll!
Sfydjklm
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
United States9218 Posts
July 23 2010 17:20 GMT
#331
On July 23 2010 09:51 rasers wrote:
seems like iam a genius. since i had awesome gear and still didn truin my life OLOLO.

and srsly...i didnt read everything but some people saying they waste time with wow and now they switch to SCII? WTF?! like u dont waste time playing SCII u dont get anything out of it either if u dont become a pro.
if u become a pro u have 2 play alot more.
gonna hart 2 here this blablabla wow so bad for u u play so much u HAVE 2 play so much blalal

either ima lucky or just a freaking genius. not sure right now.

maybe a ninja!
twitter.com/therealdhalism | "Trying out Z = lots of losses vs inferior players until you figure out how to do it well (if it even works)."- Liquid'Tyler
bebejugga
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States43 Posts
July 24 2010 10:17 GMT
#332
I definitely feel you. I've been playing SC for 7 years on and off and automatically jumped on the beta for SC II when it came out. On WoW, I was also a gladiator and played for a really long time before quitting because it was making both me broke and dumb. Although I don't necessarily regret switching from playing WoW to, well, quite frankly, having a life, I always get sudden cravings to reactivate my account and hop back onto the world of Azeroth, despite the 15 dollars a month price tag.
Is your muffin buttered? Would you like me to assign someone to butter your muffin?
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-24 10:27:40
July 24 2010 10:27 GMT
#333
Basically I never did my dailies after I got my mount, not once, never did anything for proffesions, and mooched off my guildies and afked 24/7 in battlegrounds. I never showed up for progression nights, yet somehow still got slots for downing nights cuz our guild was understaffed.



That usually doesn't work very well, because such guilds often get 30 players on farm nights and 22 players on progression nights. And with 30 players online, the progression night people are going to be favored.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
ApoNow
Profile Joined May 2010
Luxembourg100 Posts
July 24 2010 15:01 GMT
#334
I never got this "we need to raid 6+ times a week" attitude where every member is supposed to at least attend 90% of scheduled raids. Just to get maximum e-fame? Give me a break...

I've been guild and raid leader of a top50 guild for about 4 years now and for the last 2 years I've raided somewhere between 3 and 4 days on progression weeks. As the main raid leader, mind you. We never expect from someone to have 90%+ attendance (except for our MTs, but that was their personal choice) and it still worked out fine. We have 5 scheduled raids at most since the day our guild was formed (back in vanilla Naxx) and if we dropped out of top100 for a brief moment nobody gave a shit, everyone was glad that we didn't need to put in more hours to achieve good results.

I strongly believe this whole issue about the harsh time consumption of raids stems from guild leaders who put too much emphasis on "how to extend your raiding hours to the max" instead of "maximizing your time efficiency".

The same problem is actually apparent in games like Starcraft too. There are tons of players thinking if they put in the hours, results will come by themselves. Those people seem to be unaware of the fact that if you focus on analyzing your games and marking your mistakes, spent time will lower drastically for the same end result.
It's much more about the approach, not so much about time investment as the masses seem to think.

Of course this differs if you want to be at the absolute top, since those guys will analyze AND put in the hours.
A Tiamat tour is like Space Mountain in Disneyland… A roller coaster in the dark
wiesel
Profile Joined September 2008
Germany727 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-24 15:36:19
July 24 2010 15:26 GMT
#335
WoW was a casual grindfest after vanilla. Such a joke. It's like the easiest most casual game ever and still there are people who can fail. Unbelievable.
Then came the absolute fail with Arena and E-sports, god i still have to laugh when someone talks about competetive e-sport in WoW almost as funny as console game e-sports. Just like where sc2 will end, casual here casual there.
Putting 12 hours in WoW is like relaxing playing can't compare this to 12 hours of Broodwar ...
lovewithlea
Profile Joined March 2010
168 Posts
July 24 2010 15:27 GMT
#336
wow arena ruined it for me. i'm still not in the state of mind to play any teamgame that goes beyond 2on2 sc:bw / sc2
lovewithlea
Profile Joined March 2010
168 Posts
July 24 2010 15:32 GMT
#337
wow arena ruined it for me. i'm still not in the state of mind to play any teamgame that goes beyond 2on2 sc:bw / sc2
Half
Profile Joined March 2010
United States2554 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-24 16:55:16
July 24 2010 16:50 GMT
#338
On July 24 2010 19:27 azotic wrote:
Show nested quote +
Basically I never did my dailies after I got my mount, not once, never did anything for proffesions, and mooched off my guildies and afked 24/7 in battlegrounds. I never showed up for progression nights, yet somehow still got slots for downing nights cuz our guild was understaffed.



That usually doesn't work very well, because such guilds often get 30 players on farm nights and 22 players on progression nights. And with 30 players online, the progression night people are going to be favored.


Yeah, inorite? Except our guild was perpetually understaffed after they cleared ulduar and started Hard Modes, so every other week they couldn't even get 25 people at all for Hard Modes, so they just yanked me from arenas to do a standard run with like 20 people lol.

What was depressing was I outdpsed one of our other warlocks in my naxx gear and some arena stuff. But I guess to his credit he was a new recruit anyway.

Wotlk raids were kind of shitty though. lol I started playing towards BC, <3 still running Kara one year into BC with my shitty guild. (Not the same one I was in wrath)
Too Busy to Troll!
Mania[K]al
Profile Joined May 2009
United States359 Posts
July 24 2010 16:51 GMT
#339
WoW hasn't been out for 6 years.
Two
Profile Joined May 2010
United States95 Posts
July 24 2010 17:32 GMT
#340
On July 25 2010 01:51 Mania[K]al wrote:
WoW hasn't been out for 6 years.


Yes it has.
Brad
Profile Joined April 2010
2754 Posts
July 24 2010 17:35 GMT
#341
MMO's are great fun, but i just don't get the rush like i do playing FPS & RTS.
Lee Jae Dong proved that a focus on mechanics and execution could solve problems in the StarCraft game strategy.
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