We've been doing a lot of casting over the past six days (around 9 or 10 hours I think?) since we've been doing a match a day at MLG -- no, I don't know when we're releasing them right now. With all this time casting, I've started to notice lines that myself, Diggity, iNcontrol, and Day[9] constantly repeat.
Since I'm always looking to improve my casting and I think the community in general wants the best casting possible, I decided a thread of 'overused' lines should be created!
THE LIST OF SILLY OVERUSED WORDS AND PHRASES :
It'll be interesting to see...
On the field...
Standard...
Deviation
Opting to...
What a blunder (thanks to Day[9] for making me do this, jerk!)
We are here on...
One thing to note...
It's the most normal thing in the world
Nothing out of the ordinary
This is awesome !
He really should have....
He really should be getting...
He'll know exaaactly what's coming/what's going on/what his opponent is up to
That was a cute/creative play...
terrible, terrible damage!
I think in one cast I said 'opt' about twenty times. Terrible!
Please help out all casters improve their skills and tell us what we overuse! I will add them to the above list if this thread becomes popular. If you can cite specific VODs or casters and phrases (without flaming) that would help too as I'm fairly certain everyone is open to criticism.
If this thread turns into 'Who is the better caster?' it will most likely be closed -- so don't!
"He really should have...." "He really should be getting..."
That stuff is cool for post game analysis but I don't like it when strategies are critiqued during the cast. There's more subtle ways to go about it like.
"This fast expand is going to be in trouble if he moves those zerglings out."
instead of "oh no he really shouldn't be fast expanding, those zerglings are going to do a ton of damage."
maybe it makes no difference, just a little pet peeve
On July 15 2010 18:21 Scorch wrote: When scouting: "He'll know exaaactly what's coming/what's going on/what his opponent is up to"
And Tasteless's "Hold that thought" and "pandabearguy" stuff, but I haven't heard him commentating for ages anyway.
I thought people enjoyed the pandabearguy stuff?
Scorch just broke JP's heart.
This isn't really quotable, but I hate how in every TvP a commentator attempts to explain the "western standoff" that is EMPvsFeedback.
They'll start talking about how ghosts are really powerful because emp gets rid of shields and protoss tend to like their shields, then saying temps can feedback ghosts since it gets rid of energy and ghosts tend to like their energy, leading to the eternal struggle of looking at the abilities to figure out which one has a further range, and then realizing feedback is instant and emp isn't.
No matter the case though, they always settle and say "whoever does it first"
It's an important thing in big fights no doubt, but it can be said in like 5 seconds as opposed to the 2 minutes it always takes.
"terrible terrible damage" is not overused since it's more of a joke then an actual line, it has a background with Blizzard commentators using it many times, and Husky claiming he was using it befor they did.
Opting to standards in terminology is the most normal thing in the world easily getting across exactly whats coming/whats going on/what the players are up to. It'll be interesting to see deviation, but one thing to note is what a blunder improvised cute/creative wordplay on the field can be. Terrible terrible damage he really should be getting this is awesome!
... be applying some pressure. ... add on a few raxxes. ... be getting the Xel'Naga Watchtower. ... be getting out a Bunker to to defend the expansion. ... be chrono-boosting that. ... push in to the natural. ... be adding on another expansion here. ... be getting that Khaydarian Amulat ... go ahead and take the rest of the map right now. ... be running for the Warp Prism. ... be warping in some more units. ... go ahead and make an Archon there. ... be getting that first Immortal. ... be going here on the cliff, possibly dropping off that two High Templar. ... be able to deal some damage here to that Planetary Fortress. What he's ... try and do. ... be in a great position. ... wait until he has a large enough force until he has enough forces to steamroll that position. Is he ... be using that? ... be taking out those tanks with the Mothership ... be able to get up here. ... be able to Psionic Storm immediately. ... be forced to macro up here and make a move. ... etc
(all from the first White-Ra versus CL from this night's cast, although I missed a few)
It's not that it's bothersome, it's just that the phrase stands out a lot.
About the only one I can't stand is "a bit of a blunder" "oh, that was a blunder" I absolutely despise the word blunder now. Also "x has spawned in x location as the x PIECES". People messing up White-Ra's name saying it as White-Wa. LOL that last one isn't too bad i guess. And Artosis kept saying "indeed" for a while, that was really annoying when he was co-casting. "blah hibbity blah" - x caster, Artosis' response: "indeed". "He is probably going to do..." "Indeed he is"
I think in general, casters should be relaying less precise information. Particularly, when I was watching some iCCup.tv thing, I noticed about 40 different occasions where he referenced the difference in Probe count (it was about 5, if you were wondering).
They need to be more laid back, and serve as ear-candy to the great plays we are watching. The Koreans do this very well- if you watch any of the translations, they talk about the pilots of the Corsairs, who's driving the Vultures etc. Just add some fun to the cast.
A great example was in the Tasteless vs Day9 show match while Beta was down, and they kept going back to the 'lazy Phoenix' in the back of his base. I don't think I've laughed quite that much at a cast as when they were speculating on why he was hiding while the rest of the team was fighting.
I know this doesn't quite give you what you were looking for, JP, but maybe this can help you guys out a bit with what to fill the dead air with in between the action.
HDStarcraft. Morrow vs Socke. He started to overuse a phrase right of the bat, and then continued to overuse it right of the bat the entire game right of the bat.
On July 15 2010 19:10 ImSkeptical wrote: But those are all my favourite terms.
Opting to standards in terminology is the most normal thing in the world easily getting across exactly whats coming/whats going on/what the players are up to. It'll be interesting to see deviation, but one thing to note is what a blunder improvised cute/creative wordplay on the field can be. Terrible terrible damage he really should be getting this is awesome!
Hahaha nice!
To be honest, I don't mind any of the things in the OP that much.
"Right off the bat" (HD's new favourite saying), however, could be one of the most annoying things I have ever heard. Surely he realises how often he has been saying it lately...
On July 15 2010 19:40 fiaro wrote: a very fast - Stalker - expansion - hatchery
and so on... A lot of the commentators say this "very fast" even if it is the regular build order.
This I am feeling. Expansions are always "fast expansions" regardless of timing, and a lot of cheesy builds are the same - e.g."fast banshees" 15 minutes into the game.
Also, some commentators use rush far too often and in the wrong context.
i don't mind ppl having their catchphrases, although i think that most players are too bad at the game to commentate. it's really annoying when they are clueless and predict stuff that simply suck. tell us what's happening instead of making bad predictions!
I have no problems with most of those listed phrases. What I do find annoying are redundant statements and fallbacks, like "[...] right now" etc. I think you are really awesome caster though JP!
On July 15 2010 18:57 kron0s wrote: "...right off the bat"
haha, true.
"I am really exited about who is going to win this." "That is a very early gas... Never mind, it's the extractor trick." "He is starting at the 5 o'clock position. You could even call it half past 4." "I love banelings/Thors." "Steppes of war has a very short rush distance." "On Kulas everyone goes Zerglings." "We all love TLO."
I don't mind the things in the OP too much... But one thing I've noticed that is said a bizarre amount of times:
"Baller".
That is a word I have never ever heard from an English speaking person, until recently; everyone has started using them in the SC2 scene. Really annoying.
The most annoying caster is a caster that doesn't know what he's talking about. If you have no content, no amount of enthusiasm can compensate; in fact, it makes it even worse because you'll be excited about all the wrong things and you'll concentrate on what's obvious or uninteresting. Viewers will just wish they had the replay or will turn the sound off.
I'm not targeting anyone in particular here, but of the few casters I've seen, Day9 is the only one I could listen to for hours at a time. And that's not because he doesn't have weird expressions that he overuses, he does! But he has good content, he understands the game and when he's commenting he's actually trying to get a point across instead of just filling the silence with canned excitement.
So casters, please concentrate on content instead of worrying about this stuff. Tasteless likes to goof off, but he can only afford to do that and not be obnoxious because he has insighful commentary to wrap around the goofyness. Concentrate on the substance of your casts!
Edit: It wasn't fair to nominate Day9 as the only tolerable caster - Chill is also brilliant and I'm sure there are others. Artosis doesn't seem to put a lot of effort when commentating and is a bit too passive but he's still miles above the "all talk and no thought" crowd.
I don't think anything particular should "never" be said. It's more about variety. My only complaint comes when casters misuse words. One example was during the TLO/White-Ra game when HD commented late in one game that TLO was attacking White-Ra's "fast expansion." No, he attacked his expansion. It had been up for forever, and there was nothing fast about it.
Other than that, it's just about variety. Use any word, just try not to overuse it like it's the word of the day.
Jesus, after reading all of the posts, you guys are leaving casters with no usable words in the English language. What's with all the "I think the words < and, is, the, in, of, have > are used waaay to often" posts? How the hell are they supposed to say anything any more?!
On July 15 2010 20:36 Doctorasul wrote: The most annoying caster is a caster that doesn't know what he's talking about. If you have no content, no amount of enthusiasm can compensate; in fact, it makes it even worse because you'll be excited about all the wrong things and you'll concentrate on what's obvious or uninteresting. Viewers will just wish they had the replay or will turn the sound off.
I'm not targeting anyone in particular here, but of the few casters I've seen, Day9 is the only one I could listen to for hours at a time. And that's not because he doesn't have weird expressions that he overuses, he does! But he has good content, he understands the game and when he's commenting he's actually trying to get a point across instead of just filling the silence with canned excitement.
So casters, please concentrate on content instead of worrying about this stuff. Tasteless likes to goof off, but he can only afford to do that and not be obnoxious because he has insighful commentary to wrap around the goofyness. Concentrate on the substance of your casts!
Edit: It wasn't fair to nominate Day9 as the only tolerable caster - Chill is also brilliant and I'm sure there are others. Artosis doesn't seem to put a lot of effort when commentating and is a bit too passive but he's still miles above the "all talk and no thought" crowd.
I'm 100% behind this post. I'm not the best player by a long shot and if I ever say that on a stream or something it is most assuredly a lie.
I've started to play Random a lot here in Phase 2 and have tried to up my game with all races and so far, it is actually helping out immensely.
Everything else everyone is pretty hilarious though so far! Keep 'em coming ;p
Uh I'd hammer too much on HD and Husky which isn't the point of this thread.
But I would like to mention that the worst terms are continuously repeated catch phrases as said "H to the usky Husky" or a screaming "this is craaaaaaaaazy, absolutely out of control". Pair the latter one with unfitting situations and I die inside.
Generally I don't care too much as long as the caster is doing a great job. As long as none goes overboard it's all right.
Isn't it great that all the casters have their own style! Lets look at the three most known casters atm for SC2 ... Day[9], HDStarcraft and Husky Starcraft
Day[9] is the most informative really trying to explain what is happening and why it is happening HD mostly talks about what is happening Husky always puts in his own humor, to spice up the cast
I personally like HD the most, he has sooo much talent and especially in phase two hes doing so great. I watch day[9] A lot, of course is is one of the best casters out there. But for me personally I know what is goin on and why. Husky is good, but I feel that he sometimes doesn't pay enough attention to the game and is talking about stuff he finds funny.
So is mostly personally what you like better.
P.S. To stay on topic, I dont like when casters say that a player is doing something wrong "he should do that"
On July 15 2010 19:27 Nawyria wrote: "(Not) gonna ..."
... be applying some pressure. ... add on a few raxxes. ... be getting the Xel'Naga Watchtower. ... be getting out a Bunker to to defend the expansion. ... be chrono-boosting that. ... push in to the natural. ... be adding on another expansion here. ... be getting that Khaydarian Amulat ... go ahead and take the rest of the map right now. ... be running for the Warp Prism. ... be warping in some more units. ... go ahead and make an Archon there. ... be getting that first Immortal. ... be going here on the cliff, possibly dropping off that two High Templar. ... be able to deal some damage here to that Planetary Fortress. What he's ... try and do. ... be in a great position. ... wait until he has a large enough force until he has enough forces to steamroll that position. Is he ... be using that? ... be taking out those tanks with the Mothership ... be able to get up here. ... be able to Psionic Storm immediately. ... be forced to macro up here and make a move. ... etc
(all from the first White-Ra versus CL from this night's cast, although I missed a few)
It's not that it's bothersome, it's just that the phrase stands out a lot.
On July 15 2010 17:38 itmeJP wrote:
It'll be interesting to see...
On the field...
Standard...
Deviation
Opting to...
What a blunder (thanks to Day[9] for making me do this, jerk!)
We are here on...
One thing to note...
It's the most normal thing in the world
Nothing out of the ordinary
This is awesome !
He really should have....
He really should be getting...
He'll know exaaactly what's coming/what's going on/what his opponent is up to
That was a cute/creative play...
terrible, terrible damage!
I think in one cast I said 'opt' about twenty times. Terrible!
Do you guys just want casters to shut up or something? These words aren't overused. They are just "used" to describe the matchup and cast games.
Unless you want silence from casters, really most of this is fine, as long as it's varied enough.
Whenever day9 is talking about watch towers he always says the full name "Xelnaga watch tower" , he never says just "watch tower" or "tower". It's always "xelnaga watch tower" no matter how fast he is trying to talk. I always thought it was kind of annoying.
On July 15 2010 18:42 Bash wrote: "Awesome" in general is hugely overused, it makes you sound like a 15-year-old, stop using it.
100% agree.if you use it too much (what several Casters do) it seems like you dont know what you`re talking about and for compensation you just say "awesome". Please stop doing it - you sound like a robot and not like a human being that is trying to give some inside on what is going on in a game.
I can really only comment on Day[9]'s casting since that's most of what I watch, but I really don't think there are problems with overused phrases beyond 2 casters in particular.
"Most normal thing in the world" comes to mind with Day but I actually think its hilarious and accurate.
I think its just fine the way it is, i mean casters are all main streamed eventually, look at nfl, look at nba, look at poker, look at golf, look at that, and this, and everything. Never ever ever, will you see casters worried about overused lines, because those lines are just the norm.
I don't think it's a problem, but it's still fun to just kid about it. I can also see how a caster may find it helpful. If a phrase is said the best way often it's no big deal, but it's still nice to know what some of the common phrases are. For example if a caster realizes he's saying blunder 10 times a game he may want to pull out a thesaurus and start having players make mistakes, screw-ups, errors, goofs, ands slip ups.
One thing I noticed when TheGunrun is commentating is that everything which Martijn points out is commented as "nice". The english language should have sufficient variations of that word in store, but it always sounds like "talking without saying anything".
Heard this like 10 times during one show match, my ears start to bleed whenever i hear, "oh this probe is going to attack the building scv and just generally be really annoying."
On July 16 2010 00:02 Matiz_pl wrote: "materialize" Not sure who says it, but I heard it quite often from one caster in kinda weird situations and rather too often.
Really? People don't like it when we identify the players and where they're starting on the map? I really thought those were kind of... you know... important for spectating.
One phrase that I know I've said 100 times is "it'll be interesting to see/I'm curious to see," but it's because I'm not 100% sure why the player's done something. Sometimes I say that so I can let the viewers know about various possibilities. For example, if you see a Twilight Council dropped relatively early, I say that I'm curious to see whether the player will go for tier 1 upgrades, a dark shrine, or a twilight council, and sort of touch on each strat until we see another upgrade or tech building in the works.
To me, casting a game (particularly a tournament game, particularly when the casters don't know the outcome) is different than doing a strategic analysis.
In a tournament cast, saying "I think this is a mistake", or " Oh I really don't like this move" seems borderline arrogant. After all White-Ra and TLO can CRUSH any current caster.
It seems better to say "this seems risky" or explain WHY this strategy is unusual or surprising. Casting a tournament game should help viewers understand the game at a deeper level, not just spout opinions.
Strategic analysis, like what Day9 does when he picks a few games to highlight some strategic point, is a totally different story, and opinions and analysis are the point of the cast.
Generally, though, I LIKE each casters signature phrases.
Don't know how to phrase it in a quote, but when people start talking about "oh pink zerg is the best," "no orange is clearly a more dominant color" it really annoys me. Not because I'm an elitist jerk- I enjoy some humor, but it's overused, as per the topic
The only time I really liked someone mentioning color being dominant was diggitys dual planetary fortress rush video, regarding "the most formidable colors in the protoss army" not standing a chance.
On July 16 2010 01:32 Chill wrote: I feel like 70% of the entries in this thread are just super common english phrases...
^^ This
Though I do have a complaint in general. Anytime someone attacks the caster always says oh it's a "timing attack!"... no it's not. It's just a <BEEEPING> attack. Not every <BEEEPING> attack is a <BEEP BEEPING> TIMING ATTACK!
On July 15 2010 23:21 wishbones wrote: I think its just fine the way it is, i mean casters are all main streamed eventually, look at nfl, look at nba, look at poker, look at golf, look at that, and this, and everything. Never ever ever, will you see casters worried about overused lines, because those lines are just the norm.
Good argument, but casters often dont repeat what other casters say, which seems to happen ten fold on this site. What i mean is, Marv Albert has catch phrases + Show Spoiler +
# "From downtown" (a three point shot) # "And it's handled by [Player]..." (when a player easily grabs a rebound) # "[Player], he's been off." (when a player cannot make any shots) # "And you know he'd like to have that one back." # "Re-jected by [player]!" # "A very impressive stat line for [player]." # "[Coach] apparently not liking what he's seeing..." (when a coach calls a time out to reorganize his team). # "[Team] wants to talk it over." (when a coach calls a time out when the other team has gone on a run)
, and so does Ralph Lawler, but they arent directly copied from each other + Show Spoiler +
Lawler-isms
* Bingo: when a player makes a three-point basket. The "Bingo" term derives from one-time Clipper player and Cleveland Cavalier great Bobby "Bingo" Smith, known during his playing career for his outstanding shooting and scoring. * Lawler's Law: The first team to 100 points wins the game. In games involving the Clippers since 1978, Lawler's law has been true 91.5% of the time.[1] * Lawler's Law Corollary: The team that shoots 50% in field goal percentage wins the game. * Lawler's Overtime Law: The first team to lead by four points in overtime wins the game. * Fasten your seat belts, gang. We're going down to the wire!: It refers to when a close game is coming down to final minutes (or seconds). * Oh Me, Oh My!: When a player makes an unbelievable and exciting play. * Out of the Box: When the team with the most turnovers is winning by over fifteen points.
so you cannot really compared the two, since NBA casters dont step on each others toes as often as SC casters do.
"He should be going for X here in a little bit" "These X should easily kill off these Y"
I hate these because they try to predict the future and many times blow up in the casters face (ie, Y actually ends up killing off X). Call the game, explain what's going on, explain why things were smart/dumb when they happen, don't try to have ESP. You look foolish if you call it wrong and smug if you call it right (plus we then already know what happens before it does, which is boring to watch). React to the game, not the potential game.
I'd further add, that the most annoying thing is not overused terms, it's casters talking over each other and not knowing who is to call the game and who is to comment on what happened. Sports casters have a play-by-play and a color commentator. They both stick to their roles. The color guy does not call the action, he gives feedback on what happened after it did. Esports needs the same. Then you know your exact roles and stick to them, and the quality of the cast is improved.
On July 16 2010 01:32 Chill wrote: I feel like 70% of the entries in this thread are just super common english phrases...
Yeah, you really should start elevating your language above the super common, or are you saying Starcraft deserves no better?! Here's an example of a proper commentary (best read with a thick British accent):
Verily, to put it succinctly, I deduce his scintillating and cognizant yet scoffing and persnickety subjugation of 3 hatch muta signals the end of the morbid and barbarous epoch of the plethora of capricious zerg cacophonies. None shall bemoan this vestige of a piteous era.
On July 16 2010 00:02 Matiz_pl wrote: "materialize" Not sure who says it, but I heard it quite often from one caster in kinda weird situations and rather too often.
On July 16 2010 01:32 Chill wrote: I feel like 70% of the entries in this thread are just super common english phrases...
Yeah, you really should start elevating your language above the super common, or are you saying Starcraft deserves no better?! Here's an example of a proper commentary (best read with a thick British accent):
Verily, to put it succinctly, I deduce his scintillating and cognizant yet scoffing and persnickety subjugation of 3 hatch muta signals the end of the morbid and barbarous epoch of the plethora of capricious zerg cacophonies. None shall bemoan this vestige of a piteous era.
- My thoughts exactly, some of the phrases in the OP are just commonly used phrases - how can saying 'it looks like X player is getting Y unit' be said too often? Unless the player is actually making that unit it can only possibly LOOK like they are getting it (building a Dark Shrine for example and then not getting DTs it looks like they are going DTs). My complaints with casters are more like the kind of phrases like the one below, which we hear FAR too often and it is mis-used as well.
'Player X is going for a timing push of Y units'.
Some casters don't make this mistake but other call pretty much every attack that happens a 'timing push'. An attack is only a 'timing push' in cases as such: Player A goes eco-build Zerg, Player B goes 2 Gate Zeals before Zerg gets its spine crawlers up. In this case Player B could be considered as having gone for a timing push as he timed his attack to hit the Zerg before he could get his eco-build running fully. However if Player B simply expanded himself built up and attacked at lets say 12 minutes - this is NOT a timing push, unless of course he attacks before the Player A gets key lair or hive units to turn the battle
On July 16 2010 02:39 SichuanPanda wrote: how can saying 'it looks like X player is getting Y unit' be said too often? Unless the player is actually making that unit it can only possibly LOOK like they are getting it (building a Dark Shrine for example and then not getting DTs it looks like they are going DTs).
That's not the problem really. The problem is calling something that's about to happen before you actually know that it is. For example Lets say an SCV is moving to build something. Caster says "Looks like X is going to build an Armory here". There are two outcomes to this:
a) He builds a Barracks instead and the caster has to say "oh, nope it's actually a barracks". So the caster looks like an idiot and doesn't help the quality of the cast.
b) He builds the Armory. Then the caster says something like "yup, there it is". There's nothing to say because you knew already what he would be doing before he did it. The follow up is useless filler.
What should be done is say something like "X has an SCV moving to position lets see what goes, down...oh a Y!!" And then the color commentator can talk about how that may affect the game later.
If a Dark Shrine is down, it's fine to say that they have the option of going DT if they want. But in so many casts I hear commentators act as if they *know* what will happen and then it doesn't or they then have nothing useful to say after it does, instead of just reacting to what is actually happening in the game.
On July 16 2010 02:45 jamesr12 wrote: so basicaly you dont want the commenators to talk at all?
I know this was a sarcastic post but it hits on an interesting point. SC2 video broadcasts are, of course, more analogous to televised sports broadcasts than radio sports broadcasts.
In radio broadcasting you need a commentator to touch on everything that is happening because the audience has no other way of knowing what's going on, but in televised sports broadcasting the broadcasters often discuss outside-the-game stuff as much as they touch on the action unless some in-depth explanation is required.
The problem SC2 broadcasters are generally running into is that they focus entirely on what's happening in the game. As much as we all love SC/SC2, there simply aren't twenty solid minutes of interesting things to say about most twenty minute games, so we end up with a lot of the unsatisfying redundancy that this thread is about.
Commentators need to free up their commentary and work on their banter. It's a difficult balance to strike and one that will only be perfected with time, so we'll all need to be patient
On July 15 2010 18:10 Tachion wrote: "He really should have...." "He really should be getting..."
That stuff is cool for post game analysis but I don't like it when strategies are critiqued during the cast. There's more subtle ways to go about it like.
"This fast expand is going to be in trouble if he moves those zerglings out."
instead of "oh no he really shouldn't be fast expanding, those zerglings are going to do a ton of damage."
maybe it makes no difference, just a little pet peeve
This over and over! Commentators aren't there to tell you how bad the other guy is gonna lose, they need to work to keep up the suspense. "He's going CC before barracks, this is an incredible risk early but could really pay off if he can hold off this rush!" Instead of "Oh well he's gonna lose now." And then he loses. Much less intense and exciting that way.
On July 16 2010 02:39 SichuanPanda wrote: how can saying 'it looks like X player is getting Y unit' be said too often? Unless the player is actually making that unit it can only possibly LOOK like they are getting it (building a Dark Shrine for example and then not getting DTs it looks like they are going DTs).
That's not the problem really. The problem is calling something that's about to happen before you actually know that it is. For example Lets say an SCV is moving to build something. Caster says "Looks like X is going to build an Armory here". There are two outcomes to this:
a) He builds a Barracks instead and the caster has to say "oh, nope it's actually a barracks". So the caster looks like an idiot and doesn't help the quality of the cast.
b) He builds the Armory. Then the caster says something like "yup, there it is". There's nothing to say because you knew already what he would be doing before he did it. The follow up is useless filler.
What should be done is say something like "X has an SCV moving to position lets see what goes, down...oh a Y!!" And then the color commentator can talk about how that may affect the game later.
If a Dark Shrine is down, it's fine to say that they have the option of going DT if they want. But in so many casts I hear commentators act as if they *know* what will happen and then it doesn't or they then have nothing useful to say after it does, instead of just reacting to what is actually happening in the game.
I am a huge fan of this as well. Take this to heart, casters!!! It is so painful hearing "And now obviously he will... oh, I guess I have no idea what i'm talking about..." *Glares at Day9 >
One Day[9] frequently use is "let us divine" as he picks questions, probably the most overused thing he does with the exception of him going "hmm" and rubs his chin as someone suggested something worth exploring or him switching to a view of him drinking water.
Don't mind it to much but after 100+ episodes of "let us divine" it's getting a lil dull still love his casts though.
Two things: 1) Every unit that survives 5 seconds longer than the rest isn't a hero 2) Heroes usually survive the battle (aka, don't die 5 SECONDS LATER).
I just don't like when casters say "everything is going standard" or "not much is going on." It comes off like you either don't know what to talk about or don't care what's going on. There's always something to talk about and the caster should always make it sound like it's interesting.
Also, you have to talk about the game, but I can't stand just getting a report of what's happening, like "he's putting his cybernetics core down now," or "playerX's zerglings are headed across the map." It's not like you're casting for blind people; Talk about why stuff is happening, what impact it might have, what the player is hoping to accomplish.
not a specific phrase but i hate how most commentators just tell me exactly what im seeing without any real analysis or anything. im not blind i can see what's going on. this isnt the radio. dont just say what's happening on screen, it makes me want to kill myself.
also it's so funny becuase most sc2 casters just love to say unit names and list all their abilities and stats. I ALREADY KNOW THIS STFU
although i havent really watched any SC2 commentary since i stopped watching day9 a few months ago and i only watched a few HDH games, so maybe the masses of commentators have gotten better but for some reason i doubt it (i mean most BW commentators never got better so...)
On July 16 2010 02:57 koppik wrote: Keeping their language fresh is probably lower on the list of things casters need to worry about.
1. Knowing the game 2. Being excited about the match 3. Phrasing things clearly 4. Keeping the commentary fresh
I agree with this ranking of priorities. To some extent, I don't even care if people say "blunder" a lot. It's not even a cliche; it's a Starcraft-ism.
So who cares, really? Seems like a big to-do about nothing when we have HD and Husky saying things that are flat-out wrong in the middle of every cast. We just need casters who both love the game AND understand it!
What a blunder (thanks to Day[9] for making me do this, jerk!)
We are here on...
One thing to note...
It's the most normal thing in the world
Nothing out of the ordinary
This is awesome !
He really should have....
He really should be getting...
He'll know exaaactly what's coming/what's going on/what his opponent is up to
That was a cute/creative play...
terrible, terrible damage!
I think in one cast I said 'opt' about twenty times. Terrible!
So many of these are just completely trivial. Deviation? Seriously, who cares? A deviation is a deviation; it's not "overused". "He really should have..." is also not a cliche. There is nothing annoying about that. "We are here on..." is a way of introducing a map. Also not a big deal.
It's also silly how many people are just dropping random things that Day[9] specifically does, because he's Day[9]. These aren't cliches and they're not annoying; it's just who he is.
I think a distinctaion should be drawn between casting and educational shows. The Day9 Daily is about keeping you in suspense. Sean is suppose to be saying, well normally x doesn't work here because of y. He is suppose to know what is going on everywhere to educate us, we don't need to know how WhiteRa and IdrA had tea with the Queen last week. It's not the point.
- "ooooooooohhhh" - "uuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhh" - "aaaaaaaaaaaahhhhh" every single time a psionic storm goes down, even if it happens 20x in a single game I've seen couple casters do this -yeah the effect looks nice, but c'mon
also annihilated/annihilation is slightly overused sometimes- at least for being such a fancy word, it def. is
For the people commentating about how 'casters won't have anything else to say now' I'm not sure I made it clear really what I was looking for. I have no problem when I say any of these phrases once. Its when I say "it'll be interesting to see..." about 20 times in a cast that makes me cry when I'm re listening to casts to see what I need to improve on.
I do like a lot of the things people have posted, regardless of if they're being funny or completely serious! The poster talking about how casters need to improve their banter is spot on in my eyes -- this is something I definitely need to improve on. I'm pretty surprised by the amount of responses in the thread though!
"...of [player]" is said far far too often. It basically sounds like a misstep half the time.
"And now the Roaches... of Idra are going to just slaughter the Zealots... of Nony"
Just say "Idra's Roaches" and "Nony's Zealots", it sounds much more natural and it doesn't sound like filler for dead air. Most of the time you don't even need to say which units belong to whom because they play different races.
On July 16 2010 05:33 Excalibur_Z wrote: "...of [player]" is said far far too often. It basically sounds like a misstep half the time.
"And now the Roaches... of Idra are going to just slaughter the Zealots... of Nony"
Just say "Idra's Roaches" and "Nony's Zealots", it sounds much more natural and it doesn't sound like filler for dead air. Most of the time you don't even need to say which units belong to whom because they play different races.
Just a personal pet peeve of mine when I hear it.
I'd rather they just said "...and those roaches blah blah blah to those zealots blah blah blah..."
There really is no need to call out the player's names after the initial introduction.
I don't mind using the same terms often, but one of them really annoy me to no end. Everytime I hear it, my ears bleed and I feel like pulling out my eyes with a pitchfork.
I'm actually kind of curious if casters actually practice casting? Like watch replays and cast them and record themselves and listen back in private? If not, I think this could go a long way to improving casts. Players practice a ton for the tournies, why not casters? I'd think it would force you to come up with new material for the same things you see in game, and would let you sorta pick at random which material you use so you don't repeat yourself for an entire tourney.
The best players are as good as they are because they have an entire repertoire to choose from when playing. This comes from having seen everything before through practice. I bet casters could benefit from that sorta thing as well.
On July 16 2010 06:01 vesicular wrote: I'm actually kind of curious if casters actually practice casting? Like watch replays and cast them and record themselves and listen back in private? If not, I think this could go a long way to improving casts. Players practice a ton for the tournies, why not casters? I'd think it would force you to come up with new material for the same things you see in game, and would let you sorta pick at random which material you use so you don't repeat yourself for an entire tourney.
The best players are as good as they are because they have an entire repertoire to choose from when playing. This comes from having seen everything before through practice. I bet casters could benefit from that sorta thing as well.
I do this every now and then, but not so much as of late. I have been casting on late night streams in less of a 'spotlight' just to kinda joke around and generally I find myself to be better when I'm not trying to be 'professional' if that makes sense haha.
On July 16 2010 06:01 vesicular wrote: I'm actually kind of curious if casters actually practice casting? Like watch replays and cast them and record themselves and listen back in private? If not, I think this could go a long way to improving casts. Players practice a ton for the tournies, why not casters? I'd think it would force you to come up with new material for the same things you see in game, and would let you sorta pick at random which material you use so you don't repeat yourself for an entire tourney.
The best players are as good as they are because they have an entire repertoire to choose from when playing. This comes from having seen everything before through practice. I bet casters could benefit from that sorta thing as well.
I do this every now and then, but not so much as of late. I have been casting on late night streams in less of a 'spotlight' just to kinda joke around and generally I find myself to be better when I'm not trying to be 'professional' if that makes sense haha.
Of course. Like most things, when the pressure is on it's harder to perform. I guess how much time to put into it depends on how far you see it going. If SC2 as an esport really takes off then there will certainly be a demand for quality casters. Whether that actually happens or not is anyone's guess. Though the excitement generated by a great cast really helps push the entire esport idea so I suppose it's a chicken/egg thing.
On July 16 2010 03:32 Thenas wrote: One Day[9] frequently use is "let us divine" as he picks questions, probably the most overused thing he does with the exception of him going "hmm" and rubs his chin as someone suggested something worth exploring or him switching to a view of him drinking water.
Don't mind it to much but after 100+ episodes of "let us divine" it's getting a lil dull still love his casts though.
Its just used as a noise filler.. Like some people use "ummm" or whatever. Would you rather someone would just shut up and sit still like a statue when they are trying to pick out a question?
On July 16 2010 06:49 Saracen wrote: THIS SO annoying
haha nice man, and yeah, i found myself saying timing push quite a lot when i first started, figured out the actual definition of it, and realized nothing like that currently exists haha
On July 16 2010 07:56 StreetHeat wrote: I think someone just needs to make a soundboard of all the top casters catch phrases so we can add their commentary to our own replays
"roast some drones/zerglings" (even with marines / stalkers) "snipe the queen" (even with zealots / hellions) "hero <unit>" "horrible death" (usually for T bio)
On July 16 2010 00:31 JoshSuth wrote: Really? People don't like it when we identify the players and where they're starting on the map? I really thought those were kind of... you know... important for spectating.
I think the problem is with "spawning", because it's used for all races. Nah, none of these (in my view) are real "problems", just begin to sound funny after a while. A similar list exists for any sports commentary, and for sure for the Korean commentators, but that doesn't mean they'll have to ever stop using their repetitive jargon.
On July 15 2010 19:10 ImSkeptical wrote: But those are all my favourite terms.
Opting to standards in terminology is the most normal thing in the world easily getting across exactly whats coming/whats going on/what the players are up to. It'll be interesting to see deviation, but one thing to note is what a blunder improvised cute/creative wordplay on the field can be. Terrible terrible damage he really should be getting this is awesome!
I think I love you.
But I think that many of the overused statements are just such simple phrases that it would be hard not to use them. Maybe some of them should be varied slightly every once and a while, but a cast without these phrases might be more difficult to understand.
I get really annoyed at the use of "blunder". It's so incredibly overused, and I can't stand it anymore. I don't even know where it originated from but it seems like every caster uses it all the time now every single time someone makes a mistake in a game. I really wish it'd stop.
After reading this thread in full and doing a cast I could finish my sentences so far ahead of the time in my brain with all the normal phrases that I've started to say whatever I wanted in simpler terms. It's helping! yay!
On July 16 2010 11:09 virgozero wrote: HD IS THE BEST CASTER.
Its HD>HUSKY/DAY9 !!!!!!!!
On July 15 2010 17:38 itmeJP wrote:
If this thread turns into 'Who is the better caster?' it will most likely be closed -- so don't!
Don't be discussing who's better than who in a thread like this, its completely irrelevant. Sorry for off-topic, but I've not much to add to the actual discussion, agree to alot of those phrases!
Honestly most of these terms are "overused" because they are useful. I don't often find myself annoyed at casters overusing phrases. A lack of sophisticated diction is much worse.
I really dont like the way abuse is used in the starcraft community. I assumed it meant something like, abusing bugs, like cancelling your eggs in that one patch... Not doing a nice blink or putting tanks on high ground.
* It'll be interesting to see... --> fascinating, entertaining, intriguing * Standard... --> regular, basic, default, classic * Opting to... --> preferring, deciding, going for, chosing to, * We are here on... --> match is being played on, the map is, * One thing to note... --> worthy of note, notice, remark, pay attention to, * Nothing out of the ordinary --> irregular, uncommon, unusual, extraordinary * This is awesome ! --> watch less HIMYM plz :> * He'll know exaaactly what's coming/what's going on/what his opponent is up to --> predict, we can foresee, inevitable, antecipate
"IS HE GETTING A MOTHERSHIP IS HE GETTING A MOTHERSHIP IS HE GETTING A MOTHERSHIP IS HE GETTING A MOTHERSHIP oh no he isn't getting a mothership. OH WAIT THERE IT IS" - might of been HD
On July 16 2010 20:45 Sylvr wrote: I love Gretorp, but you can seriously make a drinking game from the number of times he says
"Defensive Posture" "Robust" or corrects himself when he says Build instead of Opening.
I didn't notice "Materialize" at the time, but in retrospect, it belongs on the list as well.
However, he could say these things once a sentence and I would probably still watch his casts because they're just that insightful.
lol how could i forget ROBUST? omg thats the best. sometimes he uses materialize 3 times in a sentence but hes got a real nice commentating voice so its all good
I think you use words such as "zealots", "lings", "marines" too much. [/irony]
Seriously, some things like "Standard" or "Deviation" shouldn't be on the list. They're pieces of useful, precise vocabulary, and should always be used.
hahaha we don't care if you guys say something many times, its always funny and amusing, so keep the good work and we will keep enjoying ourself with your work ^^
Zerglings seem to have the ability to get "roasted" very easily. Every commentator I've listened to has said something about roasted Zerglings, even if it's not a Hellion!
On July 17 2010 05:55 ckw wrote: After a while this is going to be a list that contains EVERY phrase. Who really cares.
It's good therapy to talk about things that annoy you!
For instance, I've not seen this mentioned yet:
"Target Fire"
Terrible term. What was so wrong with "focus fire" that it had to be replaced?
It's not even accurate either. I mean when you A-Click you "target" the ground. At least 'focus fire' implies the player is trying to bring all his units' attention to one place, which is exactly what's happening.
On July 17 2010 03:54 Chill wrote: 입니다 - god i hear it like 700 times in korean commentary learn some new phrases
lol, that's like saying people use periods too much in their writing. it's just how the korean language works, you end every sentence with it (if you're speaking formally, that is).
Day9: "That went less than ideal" "And 2 plus 2 often times does equal 4"
And from watching iCCup just now: Raelcun: "So bm...so bm..." Catz: "And all of Morrow's units will die ... ish?" "Marines are really powerful ... ish?"
When I was watching the worldcup the last few weeks I started to become annoyed by the Dutch casters. They are tasked with just endlessly describing the same situations and they use the same tired phrases rather often. Because this irritated me to no end I often just watched the games on the BBC, because they use dual casters, so at least they can have some banter that goes beyond the direct situation the players find themselves in.
I suppose it is very hard to come up with interesting things to say all through the game. The Dutch casters, at least, get by on excitement only and for me have a detrimental effect to understanding the game, since they just lead you to the most obvious conclusion for every single thing happening which prevents you from thinking for yourself.
The latter is something I find worrisome for, say, Day[9]'s casts: because of his knowledge of the game is quite high. It actually works way better for a strategy game such as SCII where he can tell what strategy the players are following, since it does add to your understanding of the game, while with football it's usually having an opinion on whether the tackle was fair or not. Still, I think a caster should see it as his role to enlighten the viewer, to make him think, and an endless stream of trivial observations and predictions that are wrong a lot of the time, just lulls you into dozing through the cast in a haze of excitement or enjoyment without anything substantial to show for it.
My favourite commentary from Brood War (I haven't watched too many, I admit) is the casts done by Day[9] and Nony for the Bisu v Savior games, because they discuss how consequential many aspects of those games were, they help you understand why exactly Bisu is playing this way and what both of their gameplans are, etc. I showed this commentary to my father - last winter I think - when he was complaining about the trite and cliché observations uttered by the caster for the speedskating tournament we were watching, and because he has no idea what starcraft is he said he couldn't tell if it was genuinely intelligent or if it would be more of the same if I had just heard more of them, but I definitely think it's the first. It was what attracted me to the SC:BW e-sports scene, which I had missed due to being very young when it started, the fact that you had a strategical game you could discuss almost on the level of chess. This is why when so many of the casts nowadays just chronicle the events in the game, it annoys me.
Following up on that though, I really think that if the casters put the effort in they could improve a lot. However, what I think needs to go is the idea that a caster should primarily be either exciting, or try to explain what happens a lot. It belittles the intelligence of the viewer, in my opinion. -- excitement is good of course, but not at the expense of intelligence.
I always loved this article by George Orwell. I suppose many people know it, but I think it would be an interesting thing to think about for casters: to use language more carefully and avoid phrases that have lost meaning and are just to fill up time, stopping the caster from actually having to think.
Probably the thing that annoys me the most is when 2 caster will argue. Even if you know the other guy is wrong, if he corrects you, just move on and debate it after the cast.
My gf was annoyed when I was listening to Iccup tv when Raelcun overused "Ohhh Noooo!" whenever an attack came in. So I started saying it like the gay dude in family guy to lighten her up lol.
On July 21 2010 03:17 Rah wrote: My gf was annoyed when I was listening to Iccup tv when Raelcun overused "Ohhh Noooo!" whenever an attack came in. So I started saying it like the gay dude in family guy to lighten her up lol.
Raelcun was defiantly in an interesting mood that day. That was not the norm for him lol!
I always loved this article by George Orwell. I suppose many people know it, but I think it would be an interesting thing to think about for casters: to use language more carefully and avoid phrases that have lost meaning and are just to fill up time, stopping the caster from actually having to think.
For some reason going into this thread I thought you were referring to caster units like templars and infestors.
Anyway, I have a feeling if casters stopped saying half of these things, casts would actually be fairly uninteresting. They'd have to resort to "So now he's doing this, and now he's doing that". And other less interesting ways of saying the same things.
Honestly I'm so tired of hearing the acronym "BM" so frequently, but only by a few of them. Besides that though I love it all and couldn't ask for better castors voluntaring their time like they have been.
On July 17 2010 05:55 ckw wrote: After a while this is going to be a list that contains EVERY phrase. Who really cares.
It's good therapy to talk about things that annoy you!
For instance, I've not seen this mentioned yet:
"Target Fire"
Terrible term. What was so wrong with "focus fire" that it had to be replaced?
It's not even accurate either. I mean when you A-Click you "target" the ground. At least 'focus fire' implies the player is trying to bring all his units' attention to one place, which is exactly what's happening.
another COMPLETELY wrong comment... geeez people.. just don't post if you've absolutely no idea.
You can "target fire" a unit by simply right clicking it, who said it was A attack only?
"It looks like" HD uses this several times each cast and it drives me nuts! "And it looks like... IdrA is building a Spawning Pool." Probably worse because you know he's gonna say something that's completely obvious without him saying a word.
I actually think most of the casting I have heard has been excellent.
I think a lot of the stock phrase repetition comes because the caster needs to talk all the time but doesn't always have anything especially insightful to say.
This happens more in my opinion with casters whose style is essentially simple narration of the action, and somewhat less with casters like the redoubtable Thoughthammer who spend a fair amount of time discussing theory/contextualising the action with stats and the like. If you are trying to frame the narrative with theory, obviously you are going to have more to say.
Another solution is pair casting. Although there are risks (sometimes casters get too distracted chatting to each other about tangential topics), pairs are usually good at keeping the narrative flowing with less stalling or "filler verbiage". I think HD and Husky worked well as a pair in their comp, and Day[9] and Gretorp worked very well together too I thought.
If I were a caster just starting at this point, I would probably make some kind of decision about who my target audience was going to be. Day[9] does an excellent job in making the higher flights of strategy accesible to the rank outsider, but still, his commentary is probably most interesting to a crowd already somewhat knowledgable about the game. But a strictly narrative commentary, alternatively, would probably be more accessible to a general audience.
Some people get upset with casters getting too excited. I think that's ok, provided it's not you know, the whole game. (Casters sometimes obviously haven't gotten enough sleep hehe.)
I think there's nothing wrong with casters having their own personal set of phrases. If you actually have content in your commentary, then there's no problem with having a few idiosyncrasies, same as professional casters do. For example, I love it when Gretorp describes a unit or a play as "handsome". Always makes me giggle.
Also its not easy to talk constantly for an hour or so without falling into some verbal tics. I am impressed that they can do it so well. Even though HD annoys the hell out of me I know his strengths are enthusing over the games so well that a lot of people outside of the community have been watching their vods.
The thing that makes me wanna kick baby elephants in the eyes is the phrase "make short work of". At first only Crota used it - in one cast I think he said it 5 times within 5 minutes. To be honest, I haven't heard it recently, but only the thought of it makes me quiver.
Btw, I've been following this great forum for a while now and as of 5 minutes ago I am a proud member
What called my attention is that everytime some player cast forcefields, DAy9 say "nice forcefields there", even if the forcefields arent that good. But hes a very good and competent caster, just needs a little bit more polish.
This thread depresses me to no end. I really hope the commentators do not take this criticism to heart because it is worthless.
Seems like most people here want to create some standard mold that commentators are supposed to fit and not deviate from, how extremely boring. I love husky's crazy commentaries where he throws in a comment about "Do overlords sleep? Would they get blown away if it is windy?" or HD that use his catchphrases like "terrible terrible damage!"
Even though Day9's "very creative play" annoys me sometime, I realize that it is just his flavour and if I dont like it I can just quit watching.
Casters: Take this thread with a few kilo of salt. You got popluar doing your thing, don't change it now. Don't fix a bike that aint broken.
On July 15 2010 21:43 Mentymion wrote: ...drink some delicious water!
I wouldn't call regular tap water be delicous xD
maybe not in germany.
OSNA---jkjk
anyway, this thread serves little purpose. everyone has their own individual quirks, and i think casters should keep saying everything as they are now. those who most people generally like, will be popular, those who people dont like, will be phased out.
On July 21 2010 20:40 kekeke01 wrote: This thread depresses me to no end. I really hope the commentators do not take this criticism to heart because it is worthless.
Seems like most people here want to create some standard mold that commentators are supposed to fit and not deviate from, how extremely boring. I love husky's crazy commentaries where he throws in a comment about "Do overlords sleep? Would they get blown away if it is windy?" or HD that use his catchphrases like "terrible terrible damage!"
Even though Day9's "very creative play" annoys me sometime, I realize that it is just his flavour and if I dont like it I can just quit watching.
Casters: Take this thread with a few kilo of salt. You got popluar doing your thing, don't change it now. Don't fix a bike that aint broken.
You do realize that it's a commentator and caster who started this thread because he believes that criticism can lead to improvement?
You know what depresses me to no end? That people won't cease putting forward that incredibly lame, incredibly empty, incredibly wrong "If you don't like it you can go some place else" all-purpose defense which will spell the end of all criticism, all discussion and all controversy and will lead to an extremely boring world where there will be some agreement and a lot of very uninteresting silence. Please, please stop it.
On July 21 2010 17:24 Alamire wrote: Can we do something to make sure casters know that the past participle of 'to cast' is 'cast.' Hence: 'will be cast' not 'will be casted!'
Also, decimate means to reduce by one tenth; not a good result if you're attacking someone.
Thats one of the definitions its much more commonly used in its other forms though.
1. To destroy or kill a large part of (a group). 2. Usage Problem a. To inflict great destruction or damage on: The fawns decimated my rose bushes. b. To reduce markedly in amount: a profligate heir who decimated his trust fund. 3. To select by lot and kill one in every ten of.
Awesome used to mean something fearful and not good at all but you wouldnt say somebody was wrong for saying thats awesome dude unless you were my gran.
Husky's opening is the only thing I don't like. It's just makes me cringe. Everything else is peachy tho (Other than day9 making me feel guilty that I'm not working out and drinking mt dew and not his god water... ).
Crota: "Going to go ahead and figure out what the strategies are" No, you're going to watch the replay and tell us what their strategy is as they do it. Although I do like his random chats / attempts at sillyness.
HD: "bolster" - also those intro videos were very annoying.
"Going to go and destroy these destructible rocks" - do they ever destroy the non-destructible rocks?!
Psy is one of the best for straight up commentary (ie not counting day9)...
"This is bejugular!" - Day9 "This is a huge blunder by..." - Day9 "As many of you know I've been working out lately..." - Day9 "And X is proving again that any prediction I make is wrong..." - Day9 "Ar-TO-siiiis" - Day9 "Ooooh, maaan, I can't wait to see..." - Husky "Right off the bat" - HDStarcraft
I hate the term "baller", though I can't really hold its use against casters. Just a personal annoyance. Also, "abuse" seems to be used where I would say "exploit". Husky's trademark "Thor is here!" has gotten really old for me.
I don't recall if it's HD or Husky or both, but constantly saying "here" at the end of their sentences like they are from Fargo or something. They aren't using it to emphasize a certain part of the map or a location, they just say "here" for no reason and it bugs me a great deal
The day9 tournament has made me loathe him saying "huge blunder/what a blunder" 10 times per game.
HD also says he is "live casting" when he casted a game at the time it was played... it's still prerecorded when you watch it though so the misuse is really annoying. I pretty much abandoned youtube casters though, at least until HDH 2.
Boo for this thread. It's only overused if it's overused. Just because it's used a lot doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be stopped or scaled back.
Some of the best commentators in the world of sports have sayings and phrases that they use all the time. It's just personality. It's overused if it's a habit of saying something irritating or meaningless. If it's part of someone's charm or schtick, it's not overused.
Personally, I have to laugh whenever someone is "killing as many SCVs / Probes / Drones as he can / possibly can."
It's like... the player could have just killed a couple of workers and then told his Hellions to hold their fire, but no. He's gonna go the extra mile and kill as many as he possibly can, because that's what sets the pros apart.
On July 23 2010 10:59 purerythem wrote: CATTLE BRUISERS!
What? That needs to be used much, much more. But that of course I mean more people need to tech to them in high level games. I enjoy it. But seriously, I laugh every time I hear Day9 say that.
"Timing push" - Substitute this for every single instance when a unit moves towards the enemy base, even accidentally. Terran players are especially guilty of this. "Unit composition" - It's not so much the word itself as it is the instances where it's used and what tone it has. This phrase makes it sound like someone has planned what units to build extensively beforehand and is now putting some grand masterplan into practice. Seeing this term used when a player is unabashedly spamming zealots out of 4gate makes me facepalm.
That said, goooo casters! I'm surprised they can even talk as much as they do while watching and interpreting a match.
For instance TotalHalibut is my fav, then Husky for games, but Day 9 is way better in any analysis (but not as good in game). HD always seems to call stuff the wrong name and was recently trying an "announcer" type of speech pattern. HD isn't bad but hereing him say Ban-she-e or whatever makes me cring. Combat Ex talks super fast which is nice but I haven't seen his vids for a while.
Crota makes me cringe on every word, literally. He could be telling me how I am receiving a billion dollar and an 18yr old chaste Jessica Alba clone that can cook and clean and loves starcraft and I'd cringe.
gateways "morph" into warpgates afaik. a templar merge is also considered a morph i believe on the progress bar.
either way, "over used terms" for commentators is usless, we use the terms all day long while explaining to another player what happened. why bash only commentators for using a tool that helps us on a daily basis?
"Blunder" should be the word topping everyone's list. Day[9] does great commentary, but this has to go. It's a silly, archaic word, and you could just as easily say "mistake" without sounding like a try-hard.
On July 22 2010 06:11 Murlox wrote: "Looks like he is building a pylon"
"Looks like he is losing his medivac"
"Looks like a lot of probes are dying"
"Looks like he is making more zealots"
"Looks like <insert anything actually happening on the screen>"
God I hate when they do that :<
100% with you. I thought HD was the only one that overused this but Day 9 does it too.
"And it looks like..." then proceeds to point out what everyone can already see anyway.
Day 9 makes up for this by doing predictive commentary or descriptions of general strategies but HD focuses way too much on what's going on on the screen at the moment, just to keep talking.
On July 28 2010 10:00 Rokk wrote: Every time I hear "H to the usky, Husky", I want to mute the sound immediately. It makes him sound like a huge tool.
I never liked his and hdstarcraft's commentaries (i mainly watched HDH)
They just lacked experience in everything besides plugging sponsors and getting that event started in the first place. The coverage of hdh was just... bleh... i remember more than a few cases on where they talked for like a few minutes guessing randomly what is going to happen without having any clue what is actually going on. I just hope they improved and will do better on hdh2.
Since I am aware commentators watch this thread, I ask you take this "constructive feedback" with a grain of salt. Similar to product reviews, it seems the opinions expressed here represent a vocal minority.
While I think everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, I would hate to see commentators drop catch phrases that entertain 110k subscribers because 5 individuals, that already didn't like their style, decided to post here about them.
Personally, I watch a handful of commentators, Husky, HD, Day9. Of those, I thank Husky for introducing me to commentaries. He has the best enthusiasm.
"Oh my God! How many hydras was that!?" after 12 explode to a spider mine. "Storm!!!" "Thor is here!" and his Intro/Outro phrases, all keep his videos entertaining.
To all the commentators out there, keep up the good work.
Hey JP, during KotB, you often said "the terran player" or "the protoss player" or "the red terran"; I think it'd be better if you just used their nickname.
Day9 : easiest thing in the world. Every. F*cking. Time. I can even see him waving his hands and making THAT one face. "Pfffah ! Easiest thing in the world".
Blizshouter : this guy LOVES prepositions. "Move on in" in every single of his videos. In his latest video, I heard a "move on in through..." Very preposition intensive guy.
This one is actually really annoying me at the moment;
'and its going to be.. [eg player x spawning in the top right position]'
'and we are going to have.. '
'and we are going to see'
Watching the gomtv stream now and one of those casters used the above phrases no less than three times in about two sentences. RIDICULOUS. STOP IT argggg
Bumping this to express my annoyance at "goes down." Every caster overuses the hell out of this phrase for every situation imaginable.
Building placed: "A forge goes down." Building destroyed: "A forge goes down!" Expanding: "His expo goes down." Expansion destroyed: "His expo goes down!" Unit built: "Two marauders go down." Unit destroyed: "Two marauders go down!" Ability researched: "Psi storm goes down for the Protoss player." Ability used: "Psi storms go down all over the place!"
Everyone from Tasteless to random people featured on TL streams does this, and it's driving me crazy. Please mix in some new verbs to your casts.
"Colossi" FFS even when they're talking about 1 colossus half of them love the word so much they use the plural. I don't care if the internet says its correct pluralization, it sounds retarded. "Colossus" seems like a good plural for "colossus" in half the sentences I can think to use it in.
His colossus are doing terrible, terrible damage. He just lost all his colossus. Those colossus are OP as fuck.
Might not be "correct" but doesn't it sound less annoying? Doesn't it?
(Colossuses is just awkward, I wouldn't wish that on the most annoying caster)
On October 09 2010 10:53 Bosko wrote: "Colossi" FFS even when they're talking about 1 colossus half of them love the word so much they use the plural. I don't care if the internet says its correct pluralization, it sounds retarded. "Colossus" seems like a good plural for "colossus" in half the sentences I can think to use it in.
His colossus are doing terrible, terrible damage. He just lost all his colossus. Those colossus are OP as fuck.
Might not be "correct" but doesn't it sound less annoying? Doesn't it?
(Colossuses is just awkward, I wouldn't wish that on the most annoying caster)
Colloxen man, that's the only way to pronounce the plural of colossus.
I don't mind these overused phrases because I feel that everyone should have a phrase that when I hear, I associate to that caster.
"Right here it would be neat if he would [cutesy maneuver]. This is done by [verbose explanation] and cause the oppenent to [verbose explanation]." - And then the player doesn't.
(for example: [not show his overlord], [pulling it back as soon as it sees the nexus] and [freak out / expect unorthodox strategies / scout wrong places first])
On October 09 2010 12:07 Barrin wrote: I honestly don't care what they say. But I do have one of two problems with almost all casters.
Please for the love of god talk properly. Do not say "uh" or "um" a billion times. Stop pausing in the middle of your sentence. Do not start saying your next sentence until you have already articulated it in your head. I understand this is not easy, but please focus and concentrate. PLEASE! I stop watching casts sometimes just because of this.
That's not about talking "properly" this is common among all languages to use filler words, and it takes a lot of practice to reduce and is hard to eliminate completely.
Almost as bad is when two casters keep talking over each other. I understand it can be difficult to say what you want to say when you want to say it while allowing the other person to at the same time. ... It becomes a lot easier when you are right next to each other, you will see in a lot of those types of casts that the casters will be looking at each other getting more than just verbal ques.
You hit the nail right on the head. It is a lot easier to figure out timing when you can get the visual cues through body language - perhaps the dual-casters should setup a webcam for skype/msn to help alleviate this?
Lastly, we're all human. Doing these things sometimes is ok and I won't fault you for it. Just please don't do it too much or much at all.
Practice, practice, practice. We're all human, like you say, so don't fault them for it
"here we go!" this is only appropriate once in awhile when two huge armies are about to collide. "blah blah blah right now" redundant. no shit whatever you just exclaimed is going on right now! "anyway..." gunnrun kept saying this after day9's sentences and it sounded pretty rude, haha. as if day 9 was just talking nonsense and gunnrun had something more important to add. "um, uhhh" - tasteless has a huge problem with this, but i'm desensitized to it at this point and i don't think he can help himself. i like him though.
stuff like OH NOOOOOOOOO and THIS IS HUUUUUGE! is really good when used appropriately. don't mind the exaggeration, makes it very sports-like.
one thing i think tasteless and artosis should start doing is referring to each other by their real names. i think it'll make them appear more pro and legit. i want them to become famous sportscasters outside of sc
I think the all time worst is "I dont agree with that". Well maybe you don't agree because you're not a pro and are not thinking at the pro level so you don't understand why X made that decision.
poking is annoying, thinking you know better is annoying, talking about anything else then the game past the 2minute mark is annoying,
and PLEASE pay more attention to the attackers base when he is attacking, what he plans for a follow up etc, i hate looking at 4 reapers going around for 5 minutes and then going back to his base and be all like, wow he magically transformed a bunch of units there
On October 09 2010 14:18 Fa1nT wrote: Many people here don't know the difference between overused and common
Just because something like "He placed his expo down" is said a lot, doesn't mean it shouldn't be said >_>
Yeah, soon this thread is going to have every word in the english language. Casters are going to have to start learning new languages.
I'm pretty sure that ending phrases in prepositions that shouldn't even be there in the first place should be avoided.
"He placed his expo down" vs "He placed his expo"
Also, the post about using "down" too often was completely accurate. The way a lot of casters use the word is very ambiguous. Why say that an expo "went down" to mean either that it was built or that it was destroyed? Why not just say the player built his expo, or that he expanded? It's always good to be more clear and concise with your language.
Lots of casters repeat their adverbs for no reason. I think they started doing it because artosis does, but artosis has gotten a lot a lot better about it. e.g. "this won't do too too much" "this is so so powerful" etc.
Overused terms don't bother me. However if you are going ot say something is a high level play you should always say why. Granted most viewers probably already know but you should still explain it if you are going to say it.
On October 10 2010 17:21 Zerker wrote: Artosis and Tastless
Hes soooo good High level play
I was about to say the same. Specially from Tasteless the word "soooo" and the combination "sooo good" get thrown too often :| Should read more books or visit synonyms.com.
Personally I don't mind it if words are being overused, It's not like I watch replays to focus on whether or not the casters are expanding their vocabulary, I rather have them focus on getting the information right and not missing important things in a match rather than have them worry about whether they are using a word too much or too little !
On October 11 2010 02:19 Mabius wrote: Personally I don't mind it if words are being overused, It's not like I watch replays to focus on whether or not the casters are expanding their vocabulary, I rather have them focus on getting the information right and not missing important things in a match rather than have them worry about whether they are using a word too much or too little !
No reason it can't be both. If a caster wants to improve, it's useful to work on 1. stating things more precisely and clearly 2. expanding vocabulary 3. avoiding clichés. You can't always avoid saying those things, especially if you talk at Day9's speed, but that doesn't mean you can't strive to improve. And of course those aren't everything. Humor, charisma, a good voice, game knowledge, chemistry with co-casters are all important, but those things I listed earlier are more basic and can always be worked on, so, no reason to not do it.
I'm gonna say "quick" or "fast" is overused, people say like... he's getting a fast marine out when he's done 10 depo/12rax standard opening... that's not fast/quick, that's what everyone does most games, now 10 depo 11 gas, you can say its a fast gas.
I will admit that hearing "NICE FORCEFIELDS" all the time is a little annoying. To me, it seems like most casters say it as a reflex whenever they hear the forcefield sound. Even if they're terrible forcefields, they'll say "Nice forcefields! Wait, no those weren't very good at all." It takes away from when someone really did have really nice forcefield use. But then usually they can compensate by saying BEAUTIFUL FORCEFIELDS or EXCELLENT FORCEFIELDS for the really good ones, so it's not really that big of a deal.
I think a big issue for casters is that they comment on what is happening visually, and not why it is happening. I get so frustrated when I watch TheGunRun cast, because he doesn't say anything except what all players can see, I don't need a caster to say "he is putting down a barracks there.. so yeah.. he is going 2 rax-play". I know that, because I do have eyes. Also, stop using the word play after every single thing, Robo-play, 2gate-play, muta-play, drop-play, storm-play. It doesn't mean anything! It's just annoying. </rage>
I can't take it when casters misuse the word colossi. It is one colossus, multiple colossi. Being unable to remember this needlessly makes a caster look stupid. An overused term I find annoying and unclear is to go down. It's used either for a building being constructed, or something being destroyed. To combine the two: please, please, I don't ever want to hear "one colossi goes down, second colossi goes down..." during a protoss battle. Day[9] and TheGunRun said it on multiple occasions just yesterday.
On October 11 2010 03:20 Scorch wrote: I can't take it when casters misuse the word colossi. It is one colossus, multiple colossi. Being unable to remember this needlessly makes a caster look stupid. An overused term I find annoying and unclear is to go down. It's used either for a building being constructed, or something being destroyed. To combine the two: please, please, I don't ever want to hear "one colossi goes down, second colossi goes down..." during a protoss battle. Day[9] and TheGunRun said it on multiple occasions just yesterday.
The goes down thing I don't understand, I mean if it was just audio yes, but how can you not understand it or be left confused in the context of the video you are watching
The collosi thing I suppose comes from "I" being a personal pronoun, you think of it as singular in the heat of the moment. That's my theory anyway.
When you start noticing these really overused things the commentary gets really grating in my opinion. I never notice such silly repetition when i'm watching say, Football, so why does it have to be done here? Feel's gimmicky.
The most overused single word I've noticed is "does".
"He does appear to be taking his third." "He does go on the attack" "He does make another colossus"
Doesn't really bother me, and I know how hard it is to think up intelligent things to say on the spot, so I can understand why a lot of casters would buy themselves a few extra seconds by using "does" in every sentence that describes a player action.
On July 15 2010 17:38 itmeJP wrote: We've been doing a lot of casting over the past six days (around 9 or 10 hours I think?) since we've been doing a match a day at MLG -- no, I don't know when we're releasing them right now. With all this time casting, I've started to notice lines that myself, Diggity, iNcontrol, and Day[9] constantly repeat.
Since I'm always looking to improve my casting and I think the community in general wants the best casting possible, I decided a thread of 'overused' lines should be created!
THE LIST OF SILLY OVERUSED WORDS AND PHRASES :
It'll be interesting to see...
On the field...
Standard...
Deviation
Opting to...
What a blunder (thanks to Day[9] for making me do this, jerk!)
We are here on...
One thing to note...
It's the most normal thing in the world
Nothing out of the ordinary
This is awesome !
He really should have....
He really should be getting...
He'll know exaaactly what's coming/what's going on/what his opponent is up to
That was a cute/creative play...
terrible, terrible damage!
I think in one cast I said 'opt' about twenty times. Terrible!
Please help out all casters improve their skills and tell us what we overuse! I will add them to the above list if this thread becomes popular. If you can cite specific VODs or casters and phrases (without flaming) that would help too as I'm fairly certain everyone is open to criticism.
If this thread turns into 'Who is the better caster?' it will most likely be closed -- so don't!
How about "OHHHHHHHH GOSH" "OHHHHHHHHHH MAN" "OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH" *SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH*
Can anyone guess who does this about 100 times per cast?!
Oh also i think people are trying too hard to be constantly talking. It is a strategy game i don't think we have to have this one style of fake-overexcitement and non-stop talking for every caster, i'd like a caster who toned it down a bit... at a slower tempo this kind of overused catchphrases could be avoided too when people have more time to think about what they are saying.
EG IdrA, who, by the way, happens to be my teammate.
..of team EG, a great team that I recently joined
Guess who?
But seriously, what bugs me is when casters blatantly copy other casters. Blunder isn't the standard term for any mistake ever made, but somehow it is these days. Also, everything isn't a 'sign of a good player' or 'what separates the good players from the great'.
Sometimes he just got the expansion because his macro was godawful and he was bathing in minerals. I kind of don't get how any micro at all is 'some fantastic micro by X'. I'm talking about stuff like moving one stalker who's low on shields to the back. Yeah, it's good but people do that in platinum. Hardly worth of any note when there is 2 stalkers, 1 marine and 1 marauder on the field.
On October 11 2010 05:20 bLuR wrote: everything the gunrun says is overused because he's awful at casting in my opinion.. its definetely almost making me not watch the iem
Yeap....I am having a hard time watching it as well. *SIIIIIIIGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH* *OHHHHH GOSH*
Tasteless and Artosis started this in the last GSL and have started to refer to it in this season is: "Oh Clide...." "Clide is sooo good" basically when anything goes in his favor, "That Clide, so good."
Best thing about Artosis / Tasteless going to Blizzcon is you can watch GSL and not have to hear "SOOO BALLLLLLER" everytime anyone does anything good for a couple of days.
Guessing it was used sometime in the 1990s and Day9 probably revived it and was then copied by everyone :<
On October 22 2010 22:28 SilverPotato wrote: That's gotta be gg (prematurely)
I don't know if it is overused, but it is stupid in any way, regardless. I watched the 5th match of Ret's king of the hill games and the caster had to add nuance to his premature gg. Good thing that he did. It's better to express opinion on winning chances without mentioning 'gg' and reserve it for when the fat lady's singing.
There are definitely some good suggestions in here... every caster has their "goto" words which you may hear more times than others. Why? Cause casting is fucking hard people.
If you don't believe me... I challenge you to just sit down and talk into a microphone for 8 hours. See if you can even do it. Then go back and listen. How did you do? Why don't you post it here for us to listen to. It's not like casters lack the vocabulary, it's that casting drains you mentally like you wouldn't believe. Seeing Day9 after casting every series at MLG... pretty much sounded and looked like he just walked off the short bus. ^_^
HOWEVER, just in case any other aspiring casters read this... HERE IS A GOOD TIP I TRY TO TEACH ALL THE GUYS I CAST WITH:
A good caster will occasionally go back and listen to his own work to identify the exact things JP brought up in the original post. When you find yourself using the same words or phrases over and over, then do yourself a favor and try this out.
Write down on a sheet of paper the words or phrases that you overuse. Under each of them, write alternate phrases. So for example, I might use the world "unbelievable" to describe something going on. So write down, "Phenomenal, Amazing, Astonishing, Awesome, etc." do the same with phrases or ways to phrase things.
If you are occasionally referencing this during your broadcasts you'll find yourself realizing it and quickly begin using your alternate words. I still do it today after 10 years of casting.
DJWheat: "What do you think about..." to day 9. uses it like 10 times a game. I know its a passing the torch thing, but perhaps mix up how you ask him.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE stop confusing "diverge" with "diversify"
As in, and I have been hearing this for years: It will be interesting to see how their builds diversify...
this is dumb. you diversify a portfolio, your builds diverge, like a river. when a river is a river, it is one river. like in a mirror mu when both players are playing the exact same. they are one river, so they are a river.
what is interesting to see is when their builds diverge or split from each other and continue down a unique path.
On October 31 2010 12:16 kirkybaby wrote: Didn't read entire thread, but did anyone mention "This is so high level" which is mentioned at least once, every single day of GSL?
Yeah, it's been mentioned. Tasteless will see someone attack during a good timing window and will say something along the lines "WE HAVE A TIMING ATTACK COMING! THIS IS SUCH HIGH LEVEL PLAY HERE FROM (name)"
"A good bit (of whatever)"-I'm pretty sure Day[9] was the first to say this with any regularity, but pretty much all of the caster's have picked it up on varying levels. It would be fine, but so often it is used in the most inane ways. A good bit of damage, a good bit of scouting, he mined a good bit of minerals...
Also, the word decimate, often used when an army is completely destroyed.
I always hate how they try to say stuff during the first 2 minutes of any game. "ooh interesting, we've got a 12 rax 13 gas" "the zerg is getting hatch before pool" unless it's cheese, it just seems like filler sometimes.
The one which really, REALLY annoys me is when casters say "right now" when describing someone doing something. "Player X is in a really tough spot right now", "Player Y is getting Zergling speed right now", "Player Z is pushing the front right now". A lot of casters use "right now" every other sentance and I find it so unnecessary. If you are describing someone doing something in the present tense then adding "right now" is completely redundant as you have already established that the action the player is currently taking place.
On October 31 2010 13:07 wxwx wrote: "this is sooo high level" "so high level, man"
I find this extremely annoying. It's like the caster is just giving up and saying, "i'm not even going to try to explain what's going on right now". That or in Tasteless' case it's just used as filler 90% of the time.
I really hope that none of the casters pay much attention to this thread. I realize it's very old, so they've most likely moved on if they've ever looked.
I really enjoy Day[9], Tasteless, Artosis, JP, and DJWheat. I enjoy them because they have incredible and interesting personalities. If they were to begin to moderate themselves based off the things mentioned in this thread, they would lose their charm to me.
The thing I am most tired of in recent casting is Tasteless continuously finding a way to bring up how he is on EG and a teammate to IdrA. IdrA matches are almost unwatchable with him casting because he keeps trying to one up Artosis' connection to Greg.
Artosis: "Well I am really hoping IdrA wins because we talk a lot and are close friends." Tasteless: "I really hope IdrA wins because he is a teammate of mine on EG. Since he is my only teammate on EG here at the GSL I would be very disappointed if he loses."
I understand Tasteless is proud of his team and IdrA for how accomplished they (and tasteless himself) are; but I am confident by now people know his background and it just feels like he is fishing for praise. I am pretty sure he just stole the phrase "My little nerd" when referring to IdrA from Artosis because Artosis was using that for a looooong time before I heard Tasteless use it.
Timing push, every single attack tasteless calls a timing push. Now those games with idra and huk for the MSI competition this weekend? HuK really was going for an /actual timing push/
I think that a neat way to differ between races for the start is "Play X terran player landed at 6 oclock position" or "Player X zerg player spawns at 9 oclock" or "player x Protoss player, warps in at 12 oclock." I dont know but i do agree that there has to be differences in casting and adding a little colour to casting, You guys a great job anyway. So this isnt a big deal at all
On November 01 2010 14:38 imPERSONater wrote: The thing I am most tired of in recent casting is Tasteless continuously finding a way to bring up how he is on EG and a teammate to IdrA. IdrA matches are almost unwatchable with him casting because he keeps trying to one up Artosis' connection to Greg.
Artosis: "Well I am really hoping IdrA wins because we talk a lot and are close friends." Tasteless: "I really hope IdrA wins because he is a teammate of mine on EG. Since he is my only teammate on EG here at the GSL I would be very disappointed if he loses."
I understand Tasteless is proud of his team and IdrA for how accomplished they (and tasteless himself) are; but I am confident by now people know his background and it just feels like he is fishing for praise. I am pretty sure he just stole the phrase "My little nerd" when referring to IdrA from Artosis because Artosis was using that for a looooong time before I heard Tasteless use it.
I thought this wasnt a caster whose who, and whose better. It's a thread about over used phrases and Improving. Come on now, Artosis and Tasteless are excited about this game and IdrA.
"This is HUGE!" - Artosis. It gets annoying when he says it in non-serious situations. My friend and I start joking about this quote now. "OMG the scouting probe got killed! This is HUGE!"
EDIT: Also, this has probably been said before, but Tasteless seems to always refer an attack as a "timing attack" or a "timing push". Seriously, are all attacks really "timed"? I highly doubt that every game players would attack at a certain time for EVERY attack. Like I know there is a time when Zerg is vulnerable when expanding early or something like that, but towards the late game would an attack even be considered timed anymore?
On November 01 2010 08:10 Dr.Mongoose wrote: The one which really, REALLY annoys me is when casters say "right now" when describing someone doing something. "Player X is in a really tough spot right now", "Player Y is getting Zergling speed right now", "Player Z is pushing the front right now". A lot of casters use "right now" every other sentance and I find it so unnecessary. If you are describing someone doing something in the present tense then adding "right now" is completely redundant as you have already established that the action the player is currently taking place.
If we compiled a list of all the things that casters say that piss people off and banned them all we'd be listening to would be the game sounds. This thread is a little ridiculous.
Not as much actual terms but more so when some casters turns the cast into some half-educational thing. In my opinion we are way past that and I'm not refering to small stuff like someone explaining some minor details but when the caster during the whole game is trying to educate the players instead of doing actual casting.
Another reucurring annoyance is the casters try to say what they think the player should have done or shouldn't done and say things like "I wouldn't have done that" and "I think that was a bad thing to do... I would have done -blank-."
Well the first thing that comes to mind is "blunder". It's really over used. Other than that I don't see much that is over used too much. However there are things that casters say that begin to annoy me but that's a whole different subject.
I really really didn't read the whole thread, but I want to complain about the "oh-oh"... I got so upset about this in the King Of The Beta finals... =P
And now it seems Tastosis are starting to overuse it...
So, if anyoine already talked about this, put +1 for me.
I am so tired of hearing tastless say that. It's his default response to artosis. Artosis can be like "Did you see that amazing single marine take out that whole 100 supply army! I've never seen anything like that!"
Tastless: "No kidding"
Then Artosis goes back to casting the game. The Artosless casting archon is still a pretty good duo imo though.
On October 23 2010 05:48 djWHEAT wrote: There are definitely some good suggestions in here... every caster has their "goto" words which you may hear more times than others. Why? Cause casting is fucking hard people.
If you don't believe me... I challenge you to just sit down and talk into a microphone for 8 hours. See if you can even do it. Then go back and listen. How did you do? Why don't you post it here for us to listen to. It's not like casters lack the vocabulary, it's that casting drains you mentally like you wouldn't believe. Seeing Day9 after casting every series at MLG... pretty much sounded and looked like he just walked off the short bus. ^_^
HOWEVER, just in case any other aspiring casters read this... HERE IS A GOOD TIP I TRY TO TEACH ALL THE GUYS I CAST WITH:
A good caster will occasionally go back and listen to his own work to identify the exact things JP brought up in the original post. When you find yourself using the same words or phrases over and over, then do yourself a favor and try this out.
Write down on a sheet of paper the words or phrases that you overuse. Under each of them, write alternate phrases. So for example, I might use the world "unbelievable" to describe something going on. So write down, "Phenomenal, Amazing, Astonishing, Awesome, etc." do the same with phrases or ways to phrase things.
If you are occasionally referencing this during your broadcasts you'll find yourself realizing it and quickly begin using your alternate words. I still do it today after 10 years of casting.
When Artosis used to say " I'm all wiggly and jiggly ", I used to watch to turn off w/e VOD I was watching and go beat my face off the wall. Thank god thats over, it kind of ruined the TSL experience. It's a big deal
On October 23 2010 05:48 djWHEAT wrote: There are definitely some good suggestions in here... every caster has their "goto" words which you may hear more times than others. Why? Cause casting is fucking hard people.
If you don't believe me... I challenge you to just sit down and talk into a microphone for 8 hours. See if you can even do it. Then go back and listen. How did you do? Why don't you post it here for us to listen to. It's not like casters lack the vocabulary, it's that casting drains you mentally like you wouldn't believe. Seeing Day9 after casting every series at MLG... pretty much sounded and looked like he just walked off the short bus. ^_^
HOWEVER, just in case any other aspiring casters read this... HERE IS A GOOD TIP I TRY TO TEACH ALL THE GUYS I CAST WITH:
A good caster will occasionally go back and listen to his own work to identify the exact things JP brought up in the original post. When you find yourself using the same words or phrases over and over, then do yourself a favor and try this out.
Write down on a sheet of paper the words or phrases that you overuse. Under each of them, write alternate phrases. So for example, I might use the world "unbelievable" to describe something going on. So write down, "Phenomenal, Amazing, Astonishing, Awesome, etc." do the same with phrases or ways to phrase things.
If you are occasionally referencing this during your broadcasts you'll find yourself realizing it and quickly begin using your alternate words. I still do it today after 10 years of casting.
thanks for that advice wheat
Totally disagree with casting being hard. It's difficulty depends on your knowledge of the subject matter and how excited you get about it. I've shoutcasted and found it quite easy, depending on the subject matter.
You generally will start to notice you have certain things you tend to say all the time (and it's more noticeable because you will be self-conscious about it). Being aware of it is the first step to changing it. I like the idea of using a thesaurus to change up common use words
But seriously, what bugs me is when casters blatantly copy other casters. Blunder isn't the standard term for any mistake ever made, but somehow it is these days. Also, everything isn't a 'sign of a good player' or 'what separates the good players from the great'.
the word blunder is used very often for every single strategy game including chess and go. not sure why starcraft people seem to think it was the idea to use came form a single brain.
This thread should be called the thread of the overused terms of the casters of esports. I hate how they always say stuff like the zergling's of Idra instead of Idra's zerglings.
On November 03 2010 05:44 peeeky wrote: When Tasteless constantly talks about how a depot can be sunk at the beginning of every game with Terran playing.
Hah! You can't go a Terran game without Tasteless talking about the refinery depot. If the Terran doesn't even build a refinery depot, Tasteless will talk about how he could have built a refinery depot.
Yeah It's just a part of their style. I have no problems with it. It's just funny to point out their goto words. If you printed out a transcript of a cast, you could probably identify who the caster was just by looking at what he said.
"go ahead and". Maybe its so common in the US that the majority of people don't hear it. None of the players ever just do something, they "go ahead and do it". Why bother making a drone, when you can go ahead and make a drone? Losing to a baneling bust too boring? Go ahead and lose instead.
I'm waiting for someone to change their mind about an attack and move their army back to their base, and Tasteless or Artosis comments "He's going to go ahead and go back".
On November 03 2010 13:54 Malthius wrote: "go ahead and". Maybe its so common in the US that the majority of people don't hear it. None of the players ever just do something, they "go ahead and do it". Why bother making a drone, when you can go ahead and make a drone? Losing to a baneling bust too boring? Go ahead and lose instead.
I'm waiting for someone to change their mind about an attack and move their army back to their base, and Tasteless or Artosis comments "He's going to go ahead and go back".
Very true. Maybe it is an American thing - they seem to use the wrong tense all the time. Not just "go ahead and", but also "is going to be"... no, it's not "he's going to be spawning at the 12 o'clock", he actually has *already* spawned there at the 12 o'clock.
Husky has even opened a game with "so the map is going to be Metalopolis, and CellaWerra is going to be spawning as the red zerg, while HuK is going to be spawning as the blue Protoss". Arghh!!
This is perhaps not relevant, but why does Tasteless pronounce rather as "raw-thur" instead of "rah-thur"? He does it almost daily, and it has been bothering me. D:
On November 03 2010 14:17 dOofuS wrote: This is perhaps not relevant, but why does Tasteless pronounce rather as "raw-thur" instead of "rah-thur"? He does it almost daily, and it has been bothering me. D:
Day[9] does the same thing. I blame the family. It's the one word that makes me raise an eyebrow every time he says it.
NO ARTOSIS. The mutas are NOT making #()$*&#. They are either being made, being produced, or about to pop any second now. Very few units in this game actually make anything...
"I think he may have overextended himself" - Tastosis "[...] the one and only, [...]" - Tasteless trying to time the announcer at the start of a GSL game.
"i`m soooo pumped" "i can`t wait to see" "ooohhh nooooo" (scv dies) "interesting ..." "taking a peek" (jason lee 4 president) "here comes the money scan" "i actually got nerd chills all over my body tasteless" (2nd scv dies) "great/decent/not the best forcefields" "let`s take a look at the unit counting station" "this is hhhhhhhhuuuuuge" (3rd scv dies) "it is SO SOOO important not to ..." (salivation sounds) "like that quite alot" "we have this destructable rocks/debris over here ..." "HERE come the baaaaaneliiings ...." "look at this ..." "wooow"
On November 03 2010 14:17 dOofuS wrote: This is perhaps not relevant, but why does Tasteless pronounce rather as "raw-thur" instead of "rah-thur"? He does it almost daily, and it has been bothering me. D:
On November 03 2010 05:22 LyRa wrote: 'Oh my god', 'tempo-based play'
If someone starts a drinking game where you take a shot every time someone says "tempo", Artosis needs to use this free name change and call himself Cirrhosis because he would be the number one cause of said liver condition.
On November 03 2010 19:49 Ciddass wrote: "i`m soooo pumped" "i can`t wait to see" "ooohhh nooooo" (scv dies) "interesting ..." "taking a peek" (jason lee 4 president) "here comes the money scan" "i actually got nerd chills all over my body tasteless" (2nd scv dies) "great/decent/not the best forcefields" "let`s take a look at the unit counting station" "this is hhhhhhhhuuuuuge" (3rd scv dies) "it is SO SOOO important not to ..." (salivation sounds) "like that quite alot" "we have this destructable rocks/debris over here ..." "HERE come the baaaaaneliiings ...." "look at this ..." "wooow"
i love these guys
"i actually got nerd chills all over my body tasteless" (2nd scv dies)
Has "Metagame" been mentioned? It seems to me that the wrong use of "Metagame" in the sense of "strategy", "standard strategy" or just "game" ("the metagame keeps changing" = "the game keeps changing") has increased since Tasteless has resumed teaching it every single day.
bump The one that was previously just made got closed because "we've had this thread a million times before" so I figure we keep the one with 26 pages and the official one going.
lol this thread is still relevant. One thing that bothers me most about casters is when they go on and on about how excited they are because they can't think of anything to say and are trying to fill time. Don't tell us you're excited, tell us WHY you're excited so we can get excited too!
The other thing is when casters to the casting equivalent of saying "umm" by emphasising verbs in a sentence that have no business being emphasised, like "is" or "can."
"Boxer IS making helions out of his factory so that he CAN harass!"
those are the words with the least meaning in the entire sentence, stop emphasizing them!
"He is getting a very fast X" No, he is getting X at a standard time with the build he is using. If the build isn't common or if it is new I can understand it. Saying someone is getting very fast speed with a 14 gas 14 pool build grinds my gears.
I can agree with you on such things as terrible terrible damage but the rest are just kind of long phrases needed to be able to describe the game. That's just me but they don't get to my nerves or so, they're just there, said over and over again for their functional reason.
Terrible terrible damage and superlatives, adjectives in general can be used too much though and can relatively easy be renewed.
"Wrecking/Reaping havoc" - HD, Painuser, Moletrap, Gretorp I've all heard use one or both of this malapropism... I'm beginning to wonder if I'm just weird for always having used "wreaking havoc" -_-
I'm hearing a lot of casters say 'That is just disgusting!' a lot recently, when talking about damage (usually done by bru frame herrions). The first time I was like 'ok..?' but now it begins to irritate me.
Dunno if Artosis' "Too too much" has been mentioned. Or Tasteless' "... that's bad man". I always hear "that's batman". Once you hear it you can't unhear it!!
Whenever day 9 talks about units "sprinting forward" I cringe and feel like im in a language arts class and the teacher is giving examples about how to make a simple phrase more interesting.
IMO the phrases listed in the OP are exactly the phrases which should be used... they precede actual analysis。 as opposed to phrases like line em up (lame old jokes=no value) and "amazing play" (why not comment on the play instead of just screaming) (another ex: this is huge)
Side note: many of the day 9 phrases are supposed to be funny.... so don't expect them to be analytical....
"that was a small blunder" - wtf do you even know what blunder means Rotterdam has a few but i love him for it, for example: "any time soon" (this is used as pure filler with absolutely no meaning attached to it) day9 likes to repeat himself like 3 times, especially in his dailies
I actually don't know if it belongs here, but this came to my mind and I want to state that here.
Personally I think that not the phrases themselves are the problem. Of course there are things that you hear over and over again until the point where it gets a little annoying. I mostly realize this in the casting of Day[9] to be honest, but I don't watch a lot of the lesser known casters.
The thing is, that most casters seem to feel like they always have to say something and seem not to realize, that short times of silence are not bad. If I watch German soccer (which I hardly do but anyway) and listen to the commentator(s), they stop every now and then, just letting the viewers relax a little, because it's veeeery exhausting to listen to a voice for a long time, especially is it talks very fast (e.g. Day[9] tends to do that but almost every other caster does it too).
I think it has a reason why Tastosis are considered the best casting duo at the moment. Have you paid attention to how they cast and how different their style is actually from EVERY other caster in Starcraft II? They do not talk all the time and don't feel like they always have to comment on everything and fill every gap of silence. If there is nothing so say or if there's nothing that comes to their minds, they just don't say anything for a few seconds, instead of filling the time with some of the (sometimes annoying) standard phrases. This is very nice to listen to, I have no problems to watch GSL for some hours, while I always need a break every now and then at other events because the caster are aaalways talking and always so fast.
The calm way of casting that Tastosis show is really something, other casters should try to aim for. There are casters, who do it already also quite well (for example djWheat has such a calm style but of course he's always casting together with Day[9], who starts talking as soon as he stops; also Rotterdam has not that kind of "in your face"-style of casting).
If casters stop their way of "talking in turns as fast and as much as they can", this will be a huge improvement and the amount of those standard phrases will reduce automatically. Of course I don't want to say that everyone has to cast the same way but there are a lot of variations that do not include "talking all the time and comment on every little unimportant thing".
On August 19 2011 17:10 Schelim wrote: "that was a small blunder" - wtf do you even know what blunder means Rotterdam has a few but i love him for it, for example: "any time soon" (this is used as pure filler with absolutely no meaning attached to it) day9 likes to repeat himself like 3 times, especially in his dailies
Haha, Rotterdams "any time soon"! Most of the time it ends up making what he tries to say sound like it means the complete opposite!
From JP, that's QUITE A BIT OF banelings, he has QUITE A BIT of marines here!! I'm not anal about my grammar but if ur gonna use a phrase so much! Great other than that though!
I feel like some casters are too quick to point out the player's mistakes and they do it too often, especially when the action that seemed as a mistake to the caster was actually intentional. Also, starcraft is a game with imperfect information and there is no perfect and mistakeless way to play.
IMO, should add "official thread" to the list of over-used expressions. Is this thread endorsed or started by TL? Blizzard? What makes it official? Is there anything separating it from the hundreds of other threads started by other users and moderated by the same folks?
I realize that this is sort of unrelated to the discussion, but since you, a caster, made the OP and title, it also sort of fits. I whole-heartedly support the formation of the thread, and your motivations for doing so, but I also feel too many people think their threads are official when by definition, they aren't.
Moletrap: "High yield" (it's a fucking gold base), everything that dies seems to be "for free" Tasteless: "Here's the thing about ..." (he can't say that often enough though <3) Rotterdam: seems to think "nexi", "collossi", "feni" are all singular form Wolf: "UH UH UH UH" JP: "LETS TALK ABOUT MLG"
On August 19 2011 17:24 Immersion_ wrote: From JP, that's QUITE A BIT OF banelings, he has QUITE A BIT of marines here!! I'm not anal about my grammar but if ur gonna use a phrase so much! Great other than that though!
DOES. As in, He DOES make it out alive. He DOES break the contain, etc. It's fine when you want to emphasize how good he played or how unexpected the play was, however casters use it instead of just using a normal verb all the time. He does build a pylon at 10!!!!
"like" ("and like then he like like I know right, like when he like tried to like kill that banshee") "decimated" (there are so many beautiful words to describe annihilation... this isn't one of them) "nevertheless", "anytime soon" (Rotterdam; using it incorrectly, too) "fall down" (it's just 'to FALL', I have no idea why people keep adding 'down', makes no sense) "literally"
"materialising", "the great equaliser" (Mr.Bitter) "more additional" (Rotterdam; use either, not both)
Haha really cool you're making a thread like this, shows some balls.
Also, HUGE EMP!
"We see ___ now going for the ___"
"There's the stim!"
"Huge/large amount of firepower" <-- Specifically TotalBiscuit
"I DON'T KNOW TASTELESS!" <-- Excited/nervous Artosis
"B-" - DoA, being interrupted by Moletrap (nah i'm kidding Moletrap's awesome)
If you really think about it though there's only so many terms you can use within casting though, so there's bound to be a lot of repetition, conscious or sub-conscious. I kind of enjoy it personally, as long as it's a caster I actually like. I don't care if Day[9] says "standard" or "normal" or "we're gonna start seeing some ___" over and over again, because it's an awesome style of casting and I wouldn't want him to cast any other way.
"All-in" When it's not an all-in. An attack or aggressive build doesn't mean its an all-in. Easiest way to tell if a caster doesn't know shit is when they overuse that term.
"And we have a [insert structure here] going down"
and I hate this but when commentators are speaking to each other
"How are you doing today [name] you are so handsome" overused by gretorp, but not discovered by, and many other JTV casters seem to be calling each other handsome.
oh, and it was OK I suppose when iNcontroL would say it over and over but "pivotal"(spelling may be way wrong I know) but I also noticed a lot of up and coming casters starting to use this. Come on people, gain your OWN personality, stop repeating what other accomplished casters say
*This isn't overused* but I love when TotalBiscuit is commentating on a tank using terran and he refers to the damage as "Shelling" when he says it I see TB in like a... tank... shelling away at something... weird visual but you know you see it now.
Dunno if this has been said but how about "Hold that thought..." used quite frequently as a transition from talking about random stuff/game strategy to what is actually occurring in the game.
On August 20 2011 07:32 grimAuxiliatrix wrote: Just in general one thing that I notice in all casters is a ton of weird phrasing. It just makes it awkward to listen to.
"This hatchery trying to be taken down by those lings" instead of "[Player Name] trying to take down that hatchery"
I guess that happens because they have to say things before their eyes/brains can fully comprehend what is going on, so they see a hatchery under attack and say "This hatchery is.." and then have to fit in what they see based on that.
I don't like when tasteless says to artosis: I think you might be right or of course the: you might actually be right
And whenever he tells a phrase which start with: i think he may and ends with: a little bit here
I think he may have over extended himself a little bit here I think he may have stimed a little bit too soon here I think he may have over reacted a little bit here
But what i "hate" the most is when Painuser ends a phrase with an emphasis on the word BUT. He didn't do any damage BUT...he did secure his third.
Commentators need to stop saying how every EMP/psi storm is the most amazing thing ever.
"oh my god those were GREAT EMPS"... even if they are, we get it, emps are good. And often times theyre not even that great.
Same goes for forcefields and storms. ESPECIALLY the storms. a storm that lands on 2 marauders a marine and a medivac is not "great" or anything close to it. Please stop with the whole "great storm" thing.
I swear, today watching code S and artosis (no hate here buddy <3) said that about 5 storms in a row were great, yelling wildly the whole time. I get it man, but common. Not every storm needs to be shouted as the best play in the whole game >.<
You're not holding it down, it's not going anywhere. You can "hold the fort" against the enemies that makes sense, but holding it down... that's just wrong.
I could't not agree more/I agree to one hundred percent (duos) Too little, too late A rock and a hard place
Then we got the "all in" that I really don't like. What's the definition? To me it gets really silly when they announce the "second all in", which in my world means that there wasn't a first one to begin with. I don't mind "cheese". Cheese is delicious.
I've noticed him saying 'so so much' a lot. "The zealots are doing so so much damage", "The hellions are so so fast," "The game ended so so quick", etc.
On August 20 2011 09:36 Jellikit wrote: RotterdaM; "anytime soon"
It's also technically grammatically incorrect ;-). When you make a positive claim, it should be 'sometime soon'. Example: He will expand some time soon.
But then when you negate it, you use 'anytime'. Example: This game won't be over anytime soon.
On November 03 2010 13:54 Malthius wrote: "go ahead and". Maybe its so common in the US that the majority of people don't hear it. None of the players ever just do something, they "go ahead and do it". Why bother making a drone, when you can go ahead and make a drone? Losing to a baneling bust too boring? Go ahead and lose instead.
I'm waiting for someone to change their mind about an attack and move their army back to their base, and Tasteless or Artosis comments "He's going to go ahead and go back".
This is the reason I read so many pages - I couldn't believe it took so long for someone to mention this. It drives me absolutely insane. I think the worst transgressions are perpetrated by JP and djWheat, but it has spread to other casters as well. Things like "These mutas are going to go ahead and hatch." sound absurd.
That said, there has been some very good advice - djWheat's suggestions sound superb, and I hope all casters begin to do this. Also, I hope Day[9] stops with the "uh-huh uh-huh..." that has been pointed out several times - it really makes it sound like he's ignoring his co-caster.
The advice given by mOnion (if I recall) about not saying "uhhhh" and giving co-casters signals in intonation to give one another chances to speak is great. I think Husky might be the worst at that - he just talks a million miles an hour without regard to his co-caster fairly frequently.
Keep up the good work casters! You're helping ESPORTS.
Have to agree with everyone saying "Great/huge storms/forcefields/EMPs/fungals". Especially when they're actually really bad ones. I realise commentating is very very difficult, particularly live, but it's jarring when it seems like the casters have decided what they're going to say ahead of time.
The other thing that bothers me is when a foreigner loses to a korean and the post match analysis is practically an apology for them. It's ok to say they weren't as good, you're not hurting the foreigner scene by being honest!
Your weird JP :S this a game your probably gonna b out of a job in less then 4 months all of you no 1 cares about this shit no more I QUIT THIS GAME and the majority of ppl will 2 soon
On August 20 2011 09:36 Jellikit wrote: RotterdaM; "anytime soon"
It's also technically grammatically incorrect ;-). When you make a positive claim, it should be 'sometime soon'. Example: He will expand some time soon.
But then when you negate it, you use 'anytime'. Example: This game won't be over anytime soon.
Haha, I'm a non-native english speaker, and it's been bugging me every time he uses that - I couldn't exactly tell what was wrong with it, it just sounded wrong to me. Now I know why =) Thanks
I wonder if the NICE STORM/EMP/FORCEFIELD/FUNGAL thing is them being fake and trying to hype the play up, or if they're just being stupid and not really thinking about what they're saying.
Either way i wish they'd improve this. Because its blatantly poor, low level casting.
Artosis likes to begin sentences with "And..." as a transition, even though it is grammatically incorrect and the previous statement by Tasteless is completely unrelated. Some casters also begin sentences with "As...", but I've noticed this especially with Gretorp. I know they're not terms, but those habits are prevalent.
Lots of casters have got into this habit of when depicting how many units were lost or gained they say several even if it was clearly like 2 units. Casters that have started doing this Husky, djWheat, Day9 and Wolf. Also JP seems to say Factor alot all these things are very little and they are great casters but when you notice it, it really bugs you sometimes especially when you are aware of it and it makes listen out for such things.
He has a lot of banelings....but is it going to be enough? The Terran took down all those hatcheries....but is it going to be enough? Those are some great feedbacks....but will it be enough?
"outplayed" and "outclassed" are both so overused words and most of the time it's just false and really harsh. i allways facepalm when a minor thing in the early game leads to and uphill battle the whole game and then someone get's "horribly outclassed"...
For me the only thing that kinda starts to annoy me is the usage of "oh so". Like in "He can now take out this expansion oh so quickly". I dont know, just starts to annoy me a little bit.
The thing that bother me the most, and is not really the casters fault is when they say "this guy is so far ahead, in a very comfortable position" only to watch that guy get rolled 5 minutes later and then go back on what they were saying
A friend and I listened to 1 game of the GSL with tastosis casting, and counted how many times they said "Actually." It was upwards of 30 times in about a 10 minutes game.
"What zerg should ACTUALLY do here is...."
"Well, there's just nothing left for terran to do, he's ACTUALLY dead"
On August 20 2011 09:36 Jellikit wrote: RotterdaM; "anytime soon"
It's also technically grammatically incorrect ;-). When you make a positive claim, it should be 'sometime soon'. Example: He will expand some time soon.
But then when you negate it, you use 'anytime'. Example: This game won't be over anytime soon.
Haha, I'm a non-native english speaker, and it's been bugging me every time he uses that - I couldn't exactly tell what was wrong with it, it just sounded wrong to me. Now I know why =) Thanks
Speaking of RotterdaM... "...quite some..."
Everything above 3 is "quite some"... And it's not wrong at all. It's just being said so much, that I'm starting to be a bit annoyied. And I actually really like RotterdaM
EPT
I'll add all these tomorrow
![[image loading]](http://www.herbmoves.com/other/wigga.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2Vtve.png)
