EPTI was never good at brood war. I played iccup, but not for very long. I was MAYBE D+ if I had stuck around, but I have to say that I have way more fun playing brood war than this. I wasn't good at all, but there was something it has that this game does not. Noob-friendly? Maybe. I can't identify the factors that make brood war better... but there's... something.
Starcraft 2 Too easy? Too "noob friendly"? - Page 5
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pieisamazing
United States1234 Posts
I was never good at brood war. I played iccup, but not for very long. I was MAYBE D+ if I had stuck around, but I have to say that I have way more fun playing brood war than this. I wasn't good at all, but there was something it has that this game does not. Noob-friendly? Maybe. I can't identify the factors that make brood war better... but there's... something. | ||
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mangina
United States230 Posts
Starcraft 2 as of now seems too user friendly. I like how it was said. "Easy to play, hard to master. Whereas BW was hard to play and hard to master" - cr4ckshot And a lot of this sort of opinion has been springing up. A lot of people say how the game mechanics have gotten easier for a lot of people. Personally, I miss BroodWar and I wish there was a lot more micro like how it used to be. Instead, there's a lot more macro (which im fine). Its turned into a game of endurance. I find myself getting easy wins when the game progresses pass 40 mins. Most of these players cannot catch up. | ||
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omninmo
2349 Posts
On July 15 2010 11:47 Psychopomp wrote: This. All I can figure out, is that they're whining about the game having a simple, clean, easy to use interface. OP, you have been challenged son. Defend yourself. Is the game too easy to win? Or is it too easy to lose? | ||
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NATO
United States459 Posts
On July 15 2010 11:36 cr4ckshot wrote: Easy to play, hard to master. Whereas BW was hard to play and hard to master  /agree | ||
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GoDannY
Germany442 Posts
On July 15 2010 15:48 Angra wrote: I keep finding SC2 less and less fun to play as time goes on and I'm not sure I can place my finger on why exactly. I think it being way too easy to be decent at (but then still hard to master) may be a part of it, as part of the fun of BW was trying to reach the ridiculously high skill level of the "average" player. Going back to BW after playing SC2 a lot, I've been having a TON of fun just playing games out regularly. It just feels like there's so much more that you're doing at any given time and it feels a lot more challenging to just keep up with the other player. I guess it's not only that, but it's a significant part. The other reasons are I guess that the SC2 units are a lot more boring to me than BW units. Marauders/roaches/immortals aren't fun at all to use. They just exist and you have to make them. That, combined with all of this BNet 2.0 crap, combined with the fact that Blizzard thinks that tweaking this unit's damage from 20 to 25 and that unit's HP from 150 to 160 is actually going to change the game and make it a better game, is just getting really stale and boring and I can't find myself enjoying playing at all. I know the standard response is "SC2 isn't BW noob it's a new game" and I obviously realize that. I don't want SC2 to be BW, I do want it to be a new game.. I just want it to actually be fun, and as fun as BW was. And it's not, currently, to me. /end rant  I'm not intending to offend your feelings or rants towards SC2, but dont you think that kind of thinking is a little bit... uhm... tunneled? To be honest, sometimes I felt like this, too - especially when I 2vs2 for fun. People tend to go - for instance - marauder only - what is a good response to that? A shitload of Immortals of course (or void rays). But when I play against some practice partners and I go like "hey I could totally afford a warp prism here" or "blink to the cliff would have been totally baller right now". I think the problem with that is, if you are laddering a lot its a bit the same over and over again. For some reason many players want to grind as many games as possible during beta to get an advantage on release and do forget that bad habits die hard. Instead of keeping an eye on the most baller units in the game (remember when vultures and spider mines were quite unpopular?) like Blink Stalker or Raven or Banelings or whatever - they keep using the same units like a lot. I guess Day9 had a good point in his episode #154. I'm pretty sure the game will evolve A LOT on release and the month after - especially when the add-ons are coming in. Back 2 topic On July 15 2010 15:48 tarsier wrote: why was broodwar 'hard to play'? basically the same except you were forced to return to cc to send workers to mine, make half dozen control groups and manually select buildings to train units in the mid-late game. these are not 'hard' tasks, they just required a high APM. RTS games are not meant to be won or lost over APM. the hint is in the name, STRATEGY. i think the whole 'broodwar was hard to play' is just from the players who were semi-good at broodwar and want to make themselves feel special like an old man with his "in my day..." story. Couldnt have said it better myself, exactly what I feel about it. Besides, regarding the mechanics I think we are still far from flawless gameplay anyway. Even "top" players right now stack up energy on chrone/queen/command (because of scan no big deal for terran tough) or have flaws in their economy already - it's still a long way to go before we actualy can call someone having a very "smooth" gameplay. | ||
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RaiZ
2813 Posts
On July 15 2010 11:53 Sadistx wrote: These threads have been popping up since before the beta. If you think the game is too easy, you either need to play better people or just stop playing. Or like IdrA said, if the game is SOOO easy, how come aren't you winning tournaments? Wait what ? Since when winning tournaments is part of the skill assuming the game is too easy for everyone to play ? I mean, if the game was easy then everyone would have a chance to win a tournament. Which seems to be true because i'm always seeing a different winner. So i'm not sure if the game is really that hard to master. | ||
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ChoboCop
United States954 Posts
They took everything that makes bw great(no not the small control groups, bad ai, bad netcode, useless units, graphics, etc), strategy, and improved the small things that makes BW antiquated. (hate nascar)Do you think a Nascar driver should have to get out and change his own tires? I feel the sentiment of nostalgia, but you guys should realize that if you truly are masters of RTS than adaptation would be your strongest suit. Don't be afraid of change, embrace it, and thank blizzard for making a game that will give you more noobs to beat on, new strategies, and a better overall gaming experience. Alas, I know some of you just HAVE to do your own car repair, plumbing, ditch digging, worker splitting... it makes you feel a sense of accomplishment. But, many more people have embraced the idea that you can retain the things that are important to you(strategy) while eliminating the distractions(extra mechanical apm). | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
But as it's clear that Blizzard won't change anything of that, we can just hope that ppl figure out nice micro-tricks comparable to mutastacking in BW. Or we can w8 until crafty modders bring us SC2 ProMod. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10781 Posts
Lurker, Reaver, Vulture. Everything else is either similar in SC2 or actually *more* interesting in SC2. It's just that this 3 key units made for very exciting situations, all the other *possibilities* and plenty more are theoretically also in SC2. Everything else? It's the same or more exciting. Btw: Remove and replace Roach, Marauder, Immortal, Colossus... They are BOOORING (but as borign as Dragoons  ).Btw2: Get over the Muta stacking thing... Yes, it was really, really, really important in SC/BW and it was really, really exciting... But... It's gone, just get over it... Thor's would end it quickly anyway .This is a Beta and it's back on since... Not even a week? Your complaining is pretty ridiculous when you think of that... | ||
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Jugan
United States1566 Posts
On the surface, it may seem simple. However, there are a lot of things that make the game difficult to master. | ||
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funk100
United Kingdom172 Posts
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brinbran
United States52 Posts
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robertdinh
803 Posts
Nothing you can do in sc2 can compare to the macro/micro combination that BW allowed for. Sure all games evolve and people learn to play better, but sc2 isn't exactly a fresh game, it's the sequel to one of the most analyzed games of all time. It is similar in concept in many ways, but feels like a dumbed down version of it, which isn't surprising, because blizzard has shifted to profit > quality and they want this game to have mass appeal to casuals. I predict blizzard will simply make crazy changes to balance here and there to keep the game feeling fresh, much like they do with world of warcraft, because it is an effective, though tacky, method of keeping people playing. A lot of the "top" sc2 players who defend the game to death compared to bw, do it because they can't really make a huge dent in the BW scene, of course they are going to promote a game they have a headstart on and are currently considered "top" caliber at. This game has too many direct counters which basically forces you down set routes if you want to be efficient in dealing with an enemy army of certain compositions. Not that other games don't have efficient counter strats, but it is so straight forward and direct in sc2 so that even a 5 year old can understand it. | ||
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Doko
Argentina1737 Posts
The only thing that gives some sort of control over an area are siege tanks. Don't get me started on marauders. Its like blizzard employees were doing weed and booze, designed the unit and the next day everyone was afraid of saying the unit is complete bullshit cause it might have been the boss's idea.. so it just stayed in. | ||
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Panoptic
United Kingdom515 Posts
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TTL
65 Posts
Battles are 2 fast to properly micro and use spells nicely,units die like flys when you specially reach the mid game. It would be much more enjoyable if these fights could last much longer. Thats really the part where you have joy and you will get better taste if it lasts longer in my opinion. Hard part to play this game is to macro and micro properly at same time,since battles are 2 fast its really hard for a casual player to control it all unless you have uber multitasking skills. Even high skilled players that i watch from stream just attack moves and goes back to macro most of the times to keep up with production.This game is not casual n00b friendly at all and if blizzard wants more attention to this game and wants to sell all those expensions, they will make this game easier for casual players like they do in world of warcraft. Casuals are majority of the gamers and good players always shine from others anyway. Hope you get my point >_< | ||
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Ghad
Norway2551 Posts
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Panoptic
United Kingdom515 Posts
On July 15 2010 19:11 Ghad wrote: When the guys like White-Ra, TLO, Tester, Idra, Day9 and so on and so forth starts to talk about a low skill cap I will take notice, until then I truly believe this is all hot air. You're aware that was the point the OP was making? | ||
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robertdinh
803 Posts
On July 15 2010 19:11 Ghad wrote: When the guys like White-Ra, TLO, Tester, Idra, Day9 and so on and so forth starts to talk about a low skill cap I will take notice, until then I truly believe this is all hot air. It wouldn't make sense for them to openly criticize a game in that context that they are trying to make money off of. | ||
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lFrost
United States295 Posts
On July 15 2010 18:29 robertdinh wrote: SC2 is definitely easier for people to be considered good at. It simply requires a lot less overall than BW does/did. Nothing you can do in sc2 can compare to the macro/micro combination that BW allowed for. Sure all games evolve and people learn to play better, but sc2 isn't exactly a fresh game, it's the sequel to one of the most analyzed games of all time. It is similar in concept in many ways, but feels like a dumbed down version of it, which isn't surprising, because blizzard has shifted to profit > quality and they want this game to have mass appeal to casuals. I predict blizzard will simply make crazy changes to balance here and there to keep the game feeling fresh, much like they do with world of warcraft, because it is an effective, though tacky, method of keeping people playing. A lot of the "top" sc2 players who defend the game to death compared to bw, do it because they can't really make a huge dent in the BW scene, of course they are going to promote a game they have a headstart on and are currently considered "top" caliber at. This game has too many direct counters which basically forces you down set routes if you want to be efficient in dealing with an enemy army of certain compositions. Not that other games don't have efficient counter strats, but it is so straight forward and direct in sc2 so that even a 5 year old can understand it. this post is right on the dot. exactly how i feel about sc2, a dumb down version of bw that is a lot easier to play in order to make rts appealing to more noobs. after playing beta since the first week of phase 1 i have gotten bored of the game many times, which made me switch main races twice so that now I have mained all 3 before. i feel like it is way too easy to master sc2 mechanics and have very good macro, compared to bw, which is what makes this game uninteresting. when many people are able to master this game easily, there is no easy way to differentiate yourself from others or lesser people anymore like in bw. edit: also i have hit 2k+ plat in phase 1 while maintaining 2.5:1 ratio and diamond later while maining two races so i am not complaining because i suck at this game or something. watching proleague/osl/msl nowadays is a lot more interesting than the showmatches they are playing on sc2 | ||
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