|
On July 13 2010 05:50 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 05:49 Neobick wrote:On July 13 2010 05:48 avilo wrote:On July 13 2010 05:43 Jibba wrote:
ESPORTS, just like real sports, are not built on the foundation of competition > all. They work because sponsors want to give out money in return for advertising. Hevad and EG tournies are about the only exception, and as you've noticed, their payout is much lower than others.
So sponsors want attention and players want money. Inviting the best known players is the best way to draw lots of attention. what some crazy people seem to want is a "ruling class elite" of "professional known players" that are auto-invited to every tourney and do not have to work their way in. That is crazy. the good players will qualify if they can work their way through, but all these invite tourneys are lmao. Same damn people over and over again, auto-qualified. It'd be like auto qualifying nadal and federer for every single semi-finals of grandslams in tennis. That would be fucking ridiculous. Yes, they are that good that they will most *likely* get there, but that is the damn point, it's competition, and others have the opportunity to beat them. they are not "invited" to the semi-finals just because they are uber good. They worked their way up, and happen to be good enough to get that far every time in tournaments. Eh, you realise tennis players are seeded right? Yes, that's not the point. Seeding is perfectly fine, because it makes it so high profile players (that are recognized as such) do not end up playing each other in the first rounds. What is NOT fine, is auto-inviting those same players all the way into the semis for free.
Golf is like it too. Big names get auto invited and don't have to mess around with qualifiers sometimes.
|
what are you talking about? there lots of tournaments that are not invitational. i played like 3 tournaments this weekend. and im not a known name. If you keep winnign these small tourneys then im sure your bound to get an invite
|
On July 13 2010 05:37 Energizer wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 05:28 Spidermonkey wrote:On July 13 2010 05:21 Energizer wrote:On July 13 2010 05:17 Logo wrote:
An important thing to remember is that this is beta and the tournament are for beta. It sounds obvious, but it's important because it means that everything has to happen quickly. A tournament for phase 2 only has 1-2 weeks to run. It's really tough to run a comprehensive qualifying league/tournament or a large tournament in such a small time frame. So instead we have a lot of invitationals. For god sakes, stop using that "its beta" argument. Beta has nothing to do with how community-run tournaments are at now. Tell me, what main difference will there be between the beta and the real game (which will be released in 2 weeks)? I guarantee you anything you list will not have any direct impact on tournaments, gameplay, or any other such things. At this point sc2 beta is a what-you-see-is-what-you-get kinda game for release. It's beta = we don't have weeks to parse through a RO256 or what ever. Once the game is launched we can have tournaments spanning weeks to months... I guess that is more of a league though. RO256 1 game (10-20 minuets) -> RO128 RO128 1 game (10-20 minuets) -> RO64 RO64 1 game (10-20 minuets) - > RO32 There. In 1 hour we went from 256 players to a more manageable 32 that can span however long the tournament organizer/sponsor wants. So your "we dont have enough time" point is mute.
Ouch...you've definitely never run any sort of event. Getting people to play their matches is a long and arduous task. Granted in a large tournament you can just DQ people like crazy for being late/not reporting their matches or whatever, but still to get 128 matches played is going to take longer than 20 minutes, no matter how good an organizer you are. Then there's dealing with disputes that are likely to crop up with that many matches played.
It's certainly possible to run a large bracket in a day or two, but the logistics are a nightmare and it's completely understandable to just not even want to try.
|
On July 13 2010 05:56 Spidermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 05:50 avilo wrote:On July 13 2010 05:49 Neobick wrote:On July 13 2010 05:48 avilo wrote:On July 13 2010 05:43 Jibba wrote:
ESPORTS, just like real sports, are not built on the foundation of competition > all. They work because sponsors want to give out money in return for advertising. Hevad and EG tournies are about the only exception, and as you've noticed, their payout is much lower than others.
So sponsors want attention and players want money. Inviting the best known players is the best way to draw lots of attention. what some crazy people seem to want is a "ruling class elite" of "professional known players" that are auto-invited to every tourney and do not have to work their way in. That is crazy. the good players will qualify if they can work their way through, but all these invite tourneys are lmao. Same damn people over and over again, auto-qualified. It'd be like auto qualifying nadal and federer for every single semi-finals of grandslams in tennis. That would be fucking ridiculous. Yes, they are that good that they will most *likely* get there, but that is the damn point, it's competition, and others have the opportunity to beat them. they are not "invited" to the semi-finals just because they are uber good. They worked their way up, and happen to be good enough to get that far every time in tournaments. Eh, you realise tennis players are seeded right? Yes, that's not the point. Seeding is perfectly fine, because it makes it so high profile players (that are recognized as such) do not end up playing each other in the first rounds. What is NOT fine, is auto-inviting those same players all the way into the semis for free. Golf is like it too. Big names get auto invited and don't have to mess around with qualifiers sometimes.
why do you think it has the perception of being a rich man sport that is difficult to get into? Because it is.
This is SC2, you should not have to go play high school popularity contest in order to be able to enter some high profile tourneys. The mass "invite-only" tourneys are very much BS.
If organizers or the community are afraid that good players would get cheesed or something out of the first round, then they should start doing bo3s for every round. And yes, the drawback is that takes longer.
|
On July 13 2010 05:54 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 05:52 Neobick wrote:On July 13 2010 05:50 avilo wrote:On July 13 2010 05:49 Neobick wrote:On July 13 2010 05:48 avilo wrote:On July 13 2010 05:43 Jibba wrote:
ESPORTS, just like real sports, are not built on the foundation of competition > all. They work because sponsors want to give out money in return for advertising. Hevad and EG tournies are about the only exception, and as you've noticed, their payout is much lower than others.
So sponsors want attention and players want money. Inviting the best known players is the best way to draw lots of attention. what some crazy people seem to want is a "ruling class elite" of "professional known players" that are auto-invited to every tourney and do not have to work their way in. That is crazy. the good players will qualify if they can work their way through, but all these invite tourneys are lmao. Same damn people over and over again, auto-qualified. It'd be like auto qualifying nadal and federer for every single semi-finals of grandslams in tennis. That would be fucking ridiculous. Yes, they are that good that they will most *likely* get there, but that is the damn point, it's competition, and others have the opportunity to beat them. they are not "invited" to the semi-finals just because they are uber good. They worked their way up, and happen to be good enough to get that far every time in tournaments. Eh, you realise tennis players are seeded right? Yes, that's not the point. Seeding is perfectly fine, because it makes it so high profile players (that are recognized as such) do not end up playing each other in the first rounds. What is NOT fine, is auto-inviting those same players all the way into the semis for free. No player is auto-invited to the semis. People are auto-invited to the round of 16. OSL does the same thing. People should be happy that you dont need pro-licences and paying to play in tournaments. Stop harping on things not related to the point at all. And once again, you do realize that the players auto-invited to the round of 16 get to FREELY skip over the ro128 in lots of these tournaments lately? They are invited their, rather than having to work their way through the draw. Those are not as bad as some tournaments that were PURE invite only.
Related as hell to the point, we talked about tennis, and top-ranked pro-tennis players arent playing the whole tournaments, thats equally unfair if you are not logically unsound, in which case debating with you are just fun and fruitless.
Organize some tournaments yourself if you are complaining. Easy to complain, hard to do.
As I said, people are far to spoiled. Most sports you need pro-licenses or/and paying to enter top tournments like the zotac cup. If you say win two zotac cups in a row you surely will be invited to higher yeld tournaments. If you are so much better than everyone else, thats a small feat. But as long as not paying or doing anything complaining just makes it sound like you bite of the hand of the ones who feed you.
|
There is room for the occasional full-open and full-invitational tournament but in the long run, partial invitationals are going to be the most interesting to follow. Think OSL/MSL.
Established players SHOULD have some kind of advantage for being seeded, as a reward for past performance. This is because there is inherently a lot of luck in SC2 just because noone has come close to figuring out the game enough to decrease the luck factor. Even in SCBW, Flash's 70% win rate is deemed godly. Think about a 256-man tournament - the percentage that a 70% win rate player actually gets into the round of 16 is pretty damn small.
Since this is the beginning of SC2, the invitees are determined from the best information available - mostly the good players in SCBW, and a few new superstars of SC2. What I hope is that as we go along, the invitees are just the people who did well in the previous tournament. For example, for HDH2, I would like to see the players who made it to the ro8 get seeded into the ro16, as well as 8 new open spots to qualify for.
There is a place for full-open tournaments but you have to accept that many spectators would prefer to see some sort of invitational aspect to it. It's not an image thing - it's just what people prefer to see.
|
Both sides have a point. Having bronze-plat players in a tournament with pros is a waste of organizational time. However, right now every single person invited to these tournaments are SC1 or WC3 players. The best players are going to change as the game goes on, and players from other RTSes and even non-RTS players are going to get some spotlight. Creating a monopoly on these spots is going to keep this talent from being found.
The best way to do it is non-invitational but with an minimum entrance level. For example, at least Diamond with 250 ranking is required to sign up. It's the best of both worlds.
|
As some have mentioned, a lot of times it comes down to sponsors and the prize pool. Sponsors expect a certain return on their investment, in the form of increased sales and viewers. When most people see an advertisement for an upcoming tournament, they are more likely to tune in if it is a couple of pro well known gamers, compared to a few people they have never heard of. Same thing with BW games. The videos with the big names going head to had have the most hits. It is pretty much the exact same with other competitive events or sports. The big names draw, even when they arent the best. See John Daily
Take golf for example. Sponsors are allowed to let people into a tournament regardless of their record, because they know those names will help sell the tournament. Michelle Wie had several sponsor exemptions when she was qualified for the mens tournament. Small name golfers have a chance to play into a tournament. They play earlier in the week and have to go through a huge field of amateurs, but if they win, they are in the weekend tournament.
In the WSoP many amateurs do not have the buy in fee for the main event, so they play in on satellites. They have to play through a large field of no name players to win a slot in the main event. The odds that they will win it all are lower than the pros, but they have a shot. If they are good enough, they will have enough money to buy their way in next year and not have to win a satellite.
If the tournament does not have a sponsor to worry about, an open field is a good idea, but once a sponsor is involved, the organizers have to think about attracting as many viewers as possible. Like it or not, Big name players bring in more viewers. As long as tournaments have slots that are open for up and coming players, I do not have a problem with invitationals. Everyone has to start somewhere and prove themselves, pros had to start at the bottom like everyone else and imo have earn the right to skip the opening rounds of larger tournaments.
|
On July 13 2010 05:50 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 05:41 Paramore wrote:On July 13 2010 05:32 Chill wrote:On July 13 2010 05:28 KiF1rE wrote:On July 13 2010 05:13 Chill wrote:
Okay I reread your OP and there's a bad taste of jealousy in it. You keep using terms like "without lifting a finger" and "spoon fed". How do you think the invited players got their names out? By winning a lot of games. That's part of becoming known in any scene - pulling yourself up by your bootstraps to make a name for yourself. hmmm... the issue that i have is a vast majority of players in the SC2 scene being invited, did not work they're way up through SC2. they did it in other games... and according to a few tournament organizers here, previous accomplishments in other games dont matter, at least thats what i was told lol...(see the iccup tv tourney thread lol, signed up really early, like the first 10 or so and still waiting to be put into the "Open" sign up portion of the tourney several months later) but in reality what have a vast majority of popular SC2 players done in SC2 before invitationals? just about nothing. there was no working their way up... they played a previous game and then marketed themselves for SC2. but that is why i respect players like Huk alot more. Okay, so then how did they get known? You are saying "The problem is known players did nothing to get known" which is completely irrational. Of course they did something, via SC1 or other games or streaming or winning SC2 tournaments. If you don't choose to accept those as valid reasons then I guess you can boycott the consensus of who the best players are, but that won't do you much good. Getting back to the point, invitationals are FINE, just not so many of them. Its like its a recurring theme, that anybody that wants to make a new tournament, apparently has to reserve seats or else apparently its a shit-tournament. This is a sad mentality. If someone makes a tournament and has a prize pool, that is already a worthy sacrifice to the community and should be respected and regarded as such. They shouldn't have to invite these "awesome players" just to draw attention to their tournament or have it not being labelled as "shit". Tournaments that don't have well-known's aren't shit-tournaments. If there weren't so many invitationals, people would stop thinking that. Its both disrespectful to the participants and to the tournament organizer. Why would there be alot of tournaments sprung up from small-beginnings if all you do is shit on the organizers for not having "big names" and instead having a "first come first serve with a height requirement" (which the latter is much more fair). Ugh. Don't you see how wrong this argument is? If you accept something is okay then you don't get to dictate the proportion of them! "Templar are fine but not if you make so many of them." "Throwing is good but you can't do it so much." "This tournament format is good but don't do it so much." If it's the ideal format, and it's perceived as acceptable, of course the majority of leagues will follow it. I think your post's tone should follow more of a personal wishlist as opposed to taking the tone of chastising tournament organizers for not providing your personal ideal ratio of invite : open tournaments.
Templars are fine, if you make too many of them, you won't have an army that can shoot a gun, therefore, don't make that many or you can't afford the rest of your army.
Throwing is good excersize, but don't do it too much or you'll throw out your arm, excersize in moderation.
Tournament format is good, however, its not good when it becomes the standard norm for tournament formats because it stagnates the competition and skews reality of how good any player is, so don't make that format standard.
I'm posting for the health of the community. I'd probably still be posting this if I were invited to all the tournaments, because there are honestly way too many invitationals to normal tournament ratios. I didn't give a specific ratio, I gave approximations. I don't have a personal wishlist, I'm voicing the opinion of people I've talked to and my own opinion about how things are done. Its not the ideal format and I don't think its perceived as acceptable. Its only perceived as acceptable to those that organize this and created this in the first place. I think if this were the norm, it would be unacceptable.
Am I not fair in my arguments? I don't think the community can grow if all we do is invitationals all the time, thats all.
|
On July 13 2010 05:59 iEchoic wrote:
Both sides have a point. Having bronze-plat players in a tournament with pros is a waste of organizational time. However, right now every single person invited to these tournaments are SC1 or WC3 players. The best players are going to change as the game goes on, and players from other RTSes and even non-RTS players are going to get some spotlight. Creating a monopoly on this spots is going to keep this talent from being found.
The best way to do it is non-invitational but with an minimum entrance level. For example, at least Diamond with 250 ranking is required to sign up. It's the best of both worlds.
As chill stated, as long as you play good you will eventually get your shot to prove yourself. Of course we need non-invite tournaments, which Ive seen plenty of so far in the beta.
|
On July 13 2010 05:57 Looky wrote:
what are you talking about? there lots of tournaments that are not invitational. i played like 3 tournaments this weekend. and im not a known name. If you keep winnign these small tourneys then im sure your bound to get an invite
I agree with you Looky, have you gotten an invite yet?
|
On July 13 2010 06:03 Paramore wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 05:57 Looky wrote:
what are you talking about? there lots of tournaments that are not invitational. i played like 3 tournaments this weekend. and im not a known name. If you keep winnign these small tourneys then im sure your bound to get an invite I agree with you Looky, have you gotten an invite yet?
Ask him how many tournaments he won, how many he finished 2nd in. How many have you won btw?
|
On July 13 2010 05:58 Neobick wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 05:54 avilo wrote:On July 13 2010 05:52 Neobick wrote:On July 13 2010 05:50 avilo wrote:On July 13 2010 05:49 Neobick wrote:On July 13 2010 05:48 avilo wrote:On July 13 2010 05:43 Jibba wrote:
ESPORTS, just like real sports, are not built on the foundation of competition > all. They work because sponsors want to give out money in return for advertising. Hevad and EG tournies are about the only exception, and as you've noticed, their payout is much lower than others.
So sponsors want attention and players want money. Inviting the best known players is the best way to draw lots of attention. what some crazy people seem to want is a "ruling class elite" of "professional known players" that are auto-invited to every tourney and do not have to work their way in. That is crazy. the good players will qualify if they can work their way through, but all these invite tourneys are lmao. Same damn people over and over again, auto-qualified. It'd be like auto qualifying nadal and federer for every single semi-finals of grandslams in tennis. That would be fucking ridiculous. Yes, they are that good that they will most *likely* get there, but that is the damn point, it's competition, and others have the opportunity to beat them. they are not "invited" to the semi-finals just because they are uber good. They worked their way up, and happen to be good enough to get that far every time in tournaments. Eh, you realise tennis players are seeded right? Yes, that's not the point. Seeding is perfectly fine, because it makes it so high profile players (that are recognized as such) do not end up playing each other in the first rounds. What is NOT fine, is auto-inviting those same players all the way into the semis for free. No player is auto-invited to the semis. People are auto-invited to the round of 16. OSL does the same thing. People should be happy that you dont need pro-licences and paying to play in tournaments. Stop harping on things not related to the point at all. And once again, you do realize that the players auto-invited to the round of 16 get to FREELY skip over the ro128 in lots of these tournaments lately? They are invited their, rather than having to work their way through the draw. Those are not as bad as some tournaments that were PURE invite only. Related as hell to the point, we talked about tennis, and top-ranked pro-tennis players arent playing the whole tournaments, thats equally unfair if you are not logically unsound, in which case debating with you are just fun and fruitless. Organize some tournaments yourself if you are complaining. Easy to complain, hard to do. As I said, people are far to spoiled. Most sports you need pro-licenses or/and paying to enter top tournments like the zotac cup. If you say win two zotac cups in a row you surely will be invited to higher yeld tournaments. If you are so much better than everyone else, thats a small feat. But as long as not paying or doing anything complaining just makes it sound like you bite of the hand of the ones who feed you.
You've gotta be joking right? Top ranked pro tennis players ARE playing the entire tournament. Dare I say you're troll or completely ignorant?
And lol? You're saying people are spoiled? LMAO. Ok, I know not to take your posts seriously now thanks.
|
Calgary25980 Posts
On July 13 2010 06:02 Paramore wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 05:50 Chill wrote:On July 13 2010 05:41 Paramore wrote:On July 13 2010 05:32 Chill wrote:On July 13 2010 05:28 KiF1rE wrote:On July 13 2010 05:13 Chill wrote:
Okay I reread your OP and there's a bad taste of jealousy in it. You keep using terms like "without lifting a finger" and "spoon fed". How do you think the invited players got their names out? By winning a lot of games. That's part of becoming known in any scene - pulling yourself up by your bootstraps to make a name for yourself. hmmm... the issue that i have is a vast majority of players in the SC2 scene being invited, did not work they're way up through SC2. they did it in other games... and according to a few tournament organizers here, previous accomplishments in other games dont matter, at least thats what i was told lol...(see the iccup tv tourney thread lol, signed up really early, like the first 10 or so and still waiting to be put into the "Open" sign up portion of the tourney several months later) but in reality what have a vast majority of popular SC2 players done in SC2 before invitationals? just about nothing. there was no working their way up... they played a previous game and then marketed themselves for SC2. but that is why i respect players like Huk alot more. Okay, so then how did they get known? You are saying "The problem is known players did nothing to get known" which is completely irrational. Of course they did something, via SC1 or other games or streaming or winning SC2 tournaments. If you don't choose to accept those as valid reasons then I guess you can boycott the consensus of who the best players are, but that won't do you much good. Getting back to the point, invitationals are FINE, just not so many of them. Its like its a recurring theme, that anybody that wants to make a new tournament, apparently has to reserve seats or else apparently its a shit-tournament. This is a sad mentality. If someone makes a tournament and has a prize pool, that is already a worthy sacrifice to the community and should be respected and regarded as such. They shouldn't have to invite these "awesome players" just to draw attention to their tournament or have it not being labelled as "shit". Tournaments that don't have well-known's aren't shit-tournaments. If there weren't so many invitationals, people would stop thinking that. Its both disrespectful to the participants and to the tournament organizer. Why would there be alot of tournaments sprung up from small-beginnings if all you do is shit on the organizers for not having "big names" and instead having a "first come first serve with a height requirement" (which the latter is much more fair). Ugh. Don't you see how wrong this argument is? If you accept something is okay then you don't get to dictate the proportion of them! "Templar are fine but not if you make so many of them." "Throwing is good but you can't do it so much." "This tournament format is good but don't do it so much." If it's the ideal format, and it's perceived as acceptable, of course the majority of leagues will follow it. I think your post's tone should follow more of a personal wishlist as opposed to taking the tone of chastising tournament organizers for not providing your personal ideal ratio of invite : open tournaments. Am I not fair in my arguments? I don't think the community can grow if all we do is invitationals all the time, thats all.
Well, forgive me if I'm reading into your posts wrong, but your goal seems to be getting yourself into more high-profile tournaments than an honest concern for the growth of a community.
|
I think he didn't win any of them 
(Sorry if I am wrong, Looky)
As far as I know there are 4 weekly open tournaments with prize money (+the nordic cup which is open but only for scandinavians), so there is plenty of opportunities to make yourself a name.
|
Does anyone disagree that an open tournament with a minimum-rating (i.e. 250 diamond) is the best idea?
Allows talent to surface, doesn't waste organizational time on people who are still learning the basics.
|
On July 13 2010 05:58 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 05:56 Spidermonkey wrote:On July 13 2010 05:50 avilo wrote:On July 13 2010 05:49 Neobick wrote:On July 13 2010 05:48 avilo wrote:On July 13 2010 05:43 Jibba wrote:
ESPORTS, just like real sports, are not built on the foundation of competition > all. They work because sponsors want to give out money in return for advertising. Hevad and EG tournies are about the only exception, and as you've noticed, their payout is much lower than others.
So sponsors want attention and players want money. Inviting the best known players is the best way to draw lots of attention. what some crazy people seem to want is a "ruling class elite" of "professional known players" that are auto-invited to every tourney and do not have to work their way in. That is crazy. the good players will qualify if they can work their way through, but all these invite tourneys are lmao. Same damn people over and over again, auto-qualified. It'd be like auto qualifying nadal and federer for every single semi-finals of grandslams in tennis. That would be fucking ridiculous. Yes, they are that good that they will most *likely* get there, but that is the damn point, it's competition, and others have the opportunity to beat them. they are not "invited" to the semi-finals just because they are uber good. They worked their way up, and happen to be good enough to get that far every time in tournaments. Eh, you realise tennis players are seeded right? Yes, that's not the point. Seeding is perfectly fine, because it makes it so high profile players (that are recognized as such) do not end up playing each other in the first rounds. What is NOT fine, is auto-inviting those same players all the way into the semis for free. Golf is like it too. Big names get auto invited and don't have to mess around with qualifiers sometimes. why do you think it has the perception of being a rich man sport that is difficult to get into? Because it is. This is SC2, you should not have to go play high school popularity contest in order to be able to enter some high profile tourneys. The mass "invite-only" tourneys are very much BS. If organizers or the community are afraid that good players would get cheesed or something out of the first round, then they should start doing bo3s for every round. And yes, the drawback is that takes longer.
So do you oppose the system or the way the system is being perceived?
Look at the viewer ratings for a PGA tournament. People don't watch to see who is going to win, they watch to see how Tiger Woods is doing. That is the same for SC2 games. I normally don't care if Joe Schmoe is playing, I want to see how TLO plays against WhiteRa or a IdrA/Lz grudge match. Just because YOU think that the PGA is rich man's sport doesn't mean everyone does.
There are enough open tournaments that this shouldn't be an issue. Learn to advertise yourself if you want to get into the big name tourney's. Like I said before, email Husky, HD, or Day9 and convince them to cast you.
|
On July 13 2010 05:58 avilo wrote:
why do you think it has the perception of being a rich man sport that is difficult to get into? Because it is.
This is SC2, you should not have to go play high school popularity contest in order to be able to enter some high profile tourneys. The mass "invite-only" tourneys are very much BS.
If organizers or the community are afraid that good players would get cheesed or something out of the first round, then they should start doing bo3s for every round. And yes, the drawback is that takes longer.
Holy crap there's SO many things wrong with this post. Firstly golf is hard to get in to because the top players are SO good that for anyone outside the top .0001% of players, they have to play the game of their life just to compete.
Second, it's a TO's decision what tournament they want to run. They don't have any "duty" to you, or to the community, to run events the way you want them run. And they ABSOLUTELY do not have any obligation to devote more time than they want to in order to run their event. You're a complete jackass for suggesting that TO's should just devote more time to make you happy. If you have the time to do it, then do it yourself. Not everyone does.
|
On July 13 2010 06:04 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2010 05:58 Neobick wrote:On July 13 2010 05:54 avilo wrote:On July 13 2010 05:52 Neobick wrote:On July 13 2010 05:50 avilo wrote:On July 13 2010 05:49 Neobick wrote:On July 13 2010 05:48 avilo wrote:On July 13 2010 05:43 Jibba wrote:
ESPORTS, just like real sports, are not built on the foundation of competition > all. They work because sponsors want to give out money in return for advertising. Hevad and EG tournies are about the only exception, and as you've noticed, their payout is much lower than others.
So sponsors want attention and players want money. Inviting the best known players is the best way to draw lots of attention. what some crazy people seem to want is a "ruling class elite" of "professional known players" that are auto-invited to every tourney and do not have to work their way in. That is crazy. the good players will qualify if they can work their way through, but all these invite tourneys are lmao. Same damn people over and over again, auto-qualified. It'd be like auto qualifying nadal and federer for every single semi-finals of grandslams in tennis. That would be fucking ridiculous. Yes, they are that good that they will most *likely* get there, but that is the damn point, it's competition, and others have the opportunity to beat them. they are not "invited" to the semi-finals just because they are uber good. They worked their way up, and happen to be good enough to get that far every time in tournaments. Eh, you realise tennis players are seeded right? Yes, that's not the point. Seeding is perfectly fine, because it makes it so high profile players (that are recognized as such) do not end up playing each other in the first rounds. What is NOT fine, is auto-inviting those same players all the way into the semis for free. No player is auto-invited to the semis. People are auto-invited to the round of 16. OSL does the same thing. People should be happy that you dont need pro-licences and paying to play in tournaments. Stop harping on things not related to the point at all. And once again, you do realize that the players auto-invited to the round of 16 get to FREELY skip over the ro128 in lots of these tournaments lately? They are invited their, rather than having to work their way through the draw. Those are not as bad as some tournaments that were PURE invite only. Related as hell to the point, we talked about tennis, and top-ranked pro-tennis players arent playing the whole tournaments, thats equally unfair if you are not logically unsound, in which case debating with you are just fun and fruitless. Organize some tournaments yourself if you are complaining. Easy to complain, hard to do. As I said, people are far to spoiled. Most sports you need pro-licenses or/and paying to enter top tournments like the zotac cup. If you say win two zotac cups in a row you surely will be invited to higher yeld tournaments. If you are so much better than everyone else, thats a small feat. But as long as not paying or doing anything complaining just makes it sound like you bite of the hand of the ones who feed you. You've gotta be joking right? Top ranked pro tennis players ARE playing the entire tournament. Dare I say you're troll or completely ignorant? And lol? You're saying people are spoiled? LMAO. Ok, I know not to take your posts seriously now thanks.
http://tennis.about.com/od/basicprotoursglossary/g/defseeding.htm
"Definition: Seeding is the system used to separate the top players in a draw so that they will not meet in the early rounds of a tournament. The top seed is the player the tournament committee deems the strongest player in the field. She and the second seed are placed at opposite ends of the draw so that, if they both keep winning, they will meet in the final round. The number of seeds is based on the size of the draw." Sounds a lot like an unfair advantage.
Edit: Oh I fucked up.
|
On July 13 2010 05:59 iEchoic wrote:
Both sides have a point. Having bronze-plat players in a tournament with pros is a waste of organizational time. However, right now every single person invited to these tournaments are SC1 or WC3 players. The best players are going to change as the game goes on, and players from other RTSes and even non-RTS players are going to get some spotlight. Creating a monopoly on these spots is going to keep this talent from being found.
The best way to do it is non-invitational but with an minimum entrance level. For example, at least Diamond with 250 ranking is required to sign up. It's the best of both worlds.
Pretty much agree with that. As right now that is how it is, there's a "monopoly" on spots going to people, which is dumb. But having copper players/bronze players entering pro tournaments is also ridiculous.
Just depends though, everyone has to have a chance.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
