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The map is currently still in alpha phase, with all of it's strategic elements finished, the rest of the way to beta will be tweaking scale and making the map look more aesthetic.
![[image loading]](http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/XizorHalfwingseen/butterflyeffectv0_0.jpg)
Now to break down the map and features for everyone:
Let's start with the obvious
The Mains:
+ Show Spoiler +
Exposed to cliff jumping but moderately insolated from air the main is harrassable early on but difficult to push into.
The Naturals:
+ Show Spoiler +
Open to alot of air harrassment the natural can be vulnerable to those that do not have the air advantage, or static defenses.
The Third Expansion:
+ Show Spoiler +
The third expansion is connected to the main by two stacked destructable rocks, and protected from the ground by three forcefields, which last until crushed by a massive unit. However protected this third is, it is strictly a mineral only expansion.
The Fourth/Optional Third:
+ Show Spoiler +
The fourth possible expansion is blocked by a forcefield that must be crushed by a massive unit in order to be taken. It is also located on a defensible island with a narrow natural bridge to the mainland.
Partial Expansions:
+ Show Spoiler +
Two Upper mineral only partial expansions are guarded by walls and narrow chokes, while the open bottom two expansion are only protected by a wall of vines. The differences do not end there, as the top expansions have a total of 4 patches each of minerals two golden and two blue. The bottom expansions sacrifice the two blue patches in order to gain a regular gas geyser. IF all four expansions are taken the equivilent of one mineral only expansion and one regular expansion.
High Yield Expansions:
+ Show Spoiler +
The Two High Yield Expansions are guarded by walls, however it is possible to be harrassed by the cliffs above. Instead of the typical high yield minerals, six regular mineral patches exist with instead two high yield gas geysers.
Other features:
+ Show Spoiler +
White lines and circles denote Line of sight blockers and in the middle of the circles are watchtowers. the watchtowers only provide sight over the vast empty space surrounding them and do not provide for much more than an early warning system.
Paths of Control:
+ Show Spoiler +
The white path shown is control gained by holding a strong air based army, while the red is a ground based armies control. As you can see the mineral rich north is difficult to gain control of my ground, many narrow chokes, this makes it great for control by air. however the air heavy armies are quickly out of gas, as the majority of the gas on the map is located in the southern, open areas controlled by ground.
Defender Advantage:
+ Show Spoiler +
Butterfly Effect has a distinct defender advantage when it comes to protecting the main and natural from a ground attack, the white path is the path a defender must take to defend against a ground attack from any angle, the red path is the path an attacker must take to reach either extrance to the main. however once this front ground is lost, the defender has to rely on fortitied positions in order to withstand attack, as the advantage is turned into a weakness. Also this advantage is diminished the further south you expand, while it is strengthened the further north you expand.
View Larger Image
EDIT: Rush distance: the rush time is exactly 60 seconds using the method described in this thread http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=124510. of course this makes it longer than blistering sands by a few seconds.
An Alternate version with a more protected main:
+ Show Spoiler +
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And here I thought there was finally a ums map where I could be Ashton Kutcher...
I like the design, make sure to make the map look pretty enough to be a butterfly when you spice it up.
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i liked the name. Would like to see it in game before making a real opinion about it
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What are the rush distances like? It seems like it's really long path from main to main.
Also the main looks a little exposed to siege tanks from below. The tanks can cover the nat's choke + possibly hit the main.
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Reminds me of that dragon map in WC2 that looked like a dragon.
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Looks good but I'm really tired of maps giving such an advantage to Terran mech play, the minerals in the main def need to be moved to a less hostile area, possibly make it so only 1 geyser can be hit by seige tanks.
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Whats with the forcefields that have to be crushed to take ur 3rd?
Doesnt that make it extremely difficult for zerg to take their third? especially with them being the race that usually takes their 3rd first.
EDIT: nvm misread; the 3rd is blocked from the enemy by forcefields right?
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there's a problem with this map. Zerg will be be at a BIG disadvantage due to the forcefields. You need Ultra's which take the longest of all three races to tech to, contrary to Thor / Collosus they are also not always a good unit to make versus certain enemy compositions.
This will cause the zerg to have a 3rd that is harder to defend then T/P because they will have the forcefields up for a lot longer.
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On June 11 2010 06:55 Full wrote:
Whats with the forcefields that have to be crushed to take ur 3rd?
Doesnt that make it extremely difficult for zerg to take their third? especially with them being the race that usually takes their 3rd first.
It's the 4th that's blocked like that so it's not quite that imbalanced.
Though Zerg is incapable of attacking the enemy's 3rd which kinda blows.
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The third expansion is connected to the main by two stacked destructable rocks, and protected from the ground by three forcefields, which last until crushed by a massive unit. However protected this third is, it is strictly a mineral only expansion.
JESUS H CHRIST you go long ways to prevent an easier third expo and to top it off its mineral only? what was going trough your head?
Not only that but the main is siegeable? as zerg i would most likely downthumb this map
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i updated the OP with the rush distance, it's not that long, but the push distance is much longer, you don't want to be sending your army through 1 massive unit at a time.
As for the main being sieged by tanks, yeah it's a problem if you let up your defenders advantage. but thats a strategy thing, and drops, air harrass, and nydus worms can tear the siege apart since it would be WIDE open from the south ( takes two tanks to cover the width meaning you can avoid half the tank fire).
As a zerg player my strategy would probably be to take the natural quickly, and expand as my third the high yield gas, and then get an ultra and back expand to the other two expansions as my 4th and 5th instead of 3rd and 4th.
the third is blocked from your main by 4000 hp of rocks, and from the enemy by forcefields, so the enemy cannot attack it without thors collosus or ultras in front.
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Also just would like to state that the purpose of this map is to create a map in which units actually leave the base to hold positions rather than the style created by the cramped maps that were released in beta. a little similiar to BW style unit positioning. I can post pictures of a version of the map that puts the main in a less vulnerable position to tanks, but as it is the tanks have to be extremely spread out to siege both gases.
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imo i think taking the 3rd expansion on this map would be too easy considering all you need to do is wall in the ramp
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On June 11 2010 06:58 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +The third expansion is connected to the main by two stacked destructable rocks, and protected from the ground by three forcefields, which last until crushed by a massive unit. However protected this third is, it is strictly a mineral only expansion. JESUS H CHRIST you go long ways to prevent an easier third expo and to top it off its mineral only? what was going trough your head? Not only that but the main is siegeable? as zerg i would most likely downthumb this map
Pretty unnecessary bashing post.
Looks like zerg would have to utilize nydus worms a bit more on this map seeing as the bottom expos seem really far away.
OP, could you post a higher resolution/expandable picture of the map?
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The mains are really unnecessarily big.
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This looks like it would be a lot better if you took the expansions below the mains, and made them another spawn location and changed this into a 2v2.
Also the cliffs behind the mineral lines should be so easily accessible, put something there to prevent brutal reaper harassment.
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On June 11 2010 08:00 LooseMoose wrote:
Pretty unnecessary bashing post.
Looks like zerg would have to utilize nydus worms a bit more on this map seeing as the bottom expos seem really far away.
OP, could you post a higher resolution/expandable picture of the map?
Done.
On the largeness of the mains, yeah i feel that way too, i'll cut the mains in a version and move the main's location within that cliff and see how it works.
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Updated the OP with (at the bottom) a version of the map that has the main protected from siege tanks camped below, and the main is also more immune to reapers.
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It looks really empty. But I'm sure once u put in doodads and stuff it will look a lot more filled.
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Interesting analysis... I also noticed, looking at the map, that if you squint right it looks like a butterfly! Just a heads up.
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I'm a bit worried about what mineral only expansions will do to play. As long as z and p can only use them for zerglings and zealots, while terran can use them for both hellions and marines, that's potentially hard to deal with. I hope it turns out that it isn't too much of a problem.
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On June 12 2010 05:24 onmach wrote:
I'm a bit worried about what mineral only expansions will do to play. As long as z and p can only use them for zerglings and zealots, while terran can use them for both hellions and marines, that's potentially hard to deal with. I hope it turns out that it isn't too much of a problem.
In theory the mineral only expansions actually help Zerg more than the other races, as zerg can build armies based on little gas and have them been effective especially since taking a mineral only expo boosts your larva count as well. in practice it's likely the zerg will try to take the mineral only expo + the high yield gas expo. the gas expansions tend to be low on minerals, and as such force even more expanding, and that kind of play favors zerg.
protoss benefits greatly from the forcefields as they can break them VERY early with hallucinations and that gives them an expansion advantage early on.
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this map looks awesome!
however, I think it would be cooler if both sides were the same color
butterflies are the same colors on both wings -.-
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On June 12 2010 05:38 travis wrote:
this map looks awesome!
however, I think it would be cooler if both sides were the same color
butterflies are the same colors on both wings -.-
actually they will be the same color, i'm doing textures in layers, what you see on the right is actually PRE final layer, and what you see on the left is the final layer.
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so far looks like moth effect...
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That's one ugly ass butterfly...
But I have to commend you on your work. I tried to make some maps for a while in WC3 and it's damn tough business (I'd rather polish my AI's).
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On June 12 2010 05:36 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2010 05:24 onmach wrote:
I'm a bit worried about what mineral only expansions will do to play. As long as z and p can only use them for zerglings and zealots, while terran can use them for both hellions and marines, that's potentially hard to deal with. I hope it turns out that it isn't too much of a problem. In theory the mineral only expansions actually help Zerg more than the other races, as zerg can build armies based on little gas and have them been effective especially since taking a mineral only expo boosts your larva count as well. in practice it's likely the zerg will try to take the mineral only expo + the high yield gas expo. the gas expansions tend to be low on minerals, and as such force even more expanding, and that kind of play favors zerg. protoss benefits greatly from the forcefields as they can break them VERY early with hallucinations and that gives them an expansion advantage early on.
i say its opposite, terran will destroy the destructible rocks easy with 3-6 marauders // reapers and still have FF at the ramp to block early agression while the other factions will rather opt to have the ffs present but destroying the rocks much later than what terrans are capable off.
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I'm not sure how I feel about how limited the resources on the map seem to be. I get that you're trying to force us to expand, but I feel like there are other ways to accomplish this.
Also, something should be done to stop Terran from lifting their way into the fourth - placing a forcefield in the position at which the CC would land would make sense, that way terran is forced to expose the expo to a zerg if they want to use it... because lets face it, having to tech to hive and get ultras (especially on limited resources) just to be able to attack a base with ground is slightly ridiculous.
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The protoss are able to break into the 4th/optional third quicker and get a third full expo, while terran could only quickly break into the mineral only expansion.
also the forcefield IS covering where the CC would land.
There are actually more resources than blistering sands (as well as similiar rush distances) but.
Blistering sands has Main, Natural, full Third, High Yield. for each player, this map gets: Main, Natural, full third, high yield, full mineral only, a partial mineral only, a partial regular expo. for each player. just decisions have to be made: riskier expansions and more resources, or safe expansions and fewer resources.
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My opinion is bias coming out the gate due to symmetry, but I will do my best to ignore that and produce constructive criticism. It looks like you've invested a lot of time into this map, and it looks pretty. However, as a competitive map I just don't see any half-life. Borderline coercion, forcing players to produce massive units or drop capabilities in order to take an expo. Playing Zerg I would be exhausted after 1 game on this map. Spending 200/200 for overlord to drop a drone, or Hive Tech and waste money on Ultralisk . Not to mention being attacked by siege from multiple angles. What if Ultralisk, Thor, or Colossus isn't conducive to the on-going game? If it was just one of the several flaws I mentioned (Siege Tank Harass) it wouldn't be a problem. Instead of proceeding with negativity, I can ask that you continue to create and post. It definitely gives me something to divert my attention to during these slow times, and eventually a map will get through. Who knows maybe I don't know what I'm talking about and this will be at WCG. gl
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looks very interesting... it'd probably be a lot of fun to play on but it's tough to tell if it's balanced or not. at worst i guess it'd be one of those maps with a very distinct flow of play.
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Alot of impressions going through my head when looking at this map but I'd have to agree on the part of coercing players into getting massive units. But then again why couldnt that be a theme of the map(as long as the map dont suck that is, which one never knows untill having played quite a few games on it). I think it has potential for some interesting and different play.
Oh and if it were all black against a white background it would pretty much look like a rorschach pic :D
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well the only benefit that massive units give is access to one expansion, and a backdoor into the main/mineral only expo. you could never get massive units and access every part of the map and only be unable to take two of the 12 bases. the reason that "third" isn't a gas base, is for this very reason, it would be too strong to have an unattackable (except by air or massive unit) gas base, while mineral only bases are much weaker, and will only see alot of use from a zerg player, or in long drawn out games, in which massive units were most likely created.
for the siege tank issue, look at the alternate version ans tell me if that would be better as a map?
For instance you can take the high yield Gas expo + the partial expo located here:
![[image loading]](http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/XizorHalfwingseen/butterflyeffectv0_0gasother.jpg)
high yield in white and partial in red. and those two expansion areas are easily protected by a single choke.
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As another poster mentioned, the mains (and protected 3rds) seem a little bit too big.
Personally, I'm 100% opposed to minerals on the edge of cliffs like on this map, also seen in Desert Oasis. I think it promotes cheesey builds and really takes away from the experience. Especially now, where the high ground advantage is only vision.
Not sure if it's like that or not, but the left path seems a bit narrower at the top than the right path. May mean nothing because I can't see actual scale, but it seems pretty tight on the left. Almost enough that sieged Tanks on the other side of the water could cut units off trying to hug the cliff to get out of the main.
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On June 11 2010 06:58 Madkipz wrote:Show nested quote +The third expansion is connected to the main by two stacked destructable rocks, and protected from the ground by three forcefields, which last until crushed by a massive unit. However protected this third is, it is strictly a mineral only expansion. JESUS H CHRIST you go long ways to prevent an easier third expo and to top it off its mineral only? what was going trough your head? Not only that but the main is siegeable? as zerg i would most likely downthumb this map
While I certainly think you have a point you could make the same statement without sounding like a dick
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On June 12 2010 07:54 yarkO wrote:
As another poster mentioned, the mains (and protected 3rds) seem a little bit too big.
Personally, I'm 100% opposed to minerals on the edge of cliffs like on this map, also seen in Desert Oasis. I think it promotes cheesey builds and really takes away from the experience. Especially now, where the high ground advantage is only vision.
Not sure if it's like that or not, but the left path seems a bit narrower at the top than the right path. May mean nothing because I can't see actual scale, but it seems pretty tight on the left. Almost enough that sieged Tanks on the other side of the water could cut units off trying to hug the cliff to get out of the main.
it's not i checked. look at the alternate version at the bottom of the OP and tell my what you think about it.
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First I thought this looked gay, but looking at it closely it is actually a very well designed map. Kudos to you
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On June 12 2010 10:37 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2010 07:54 yarkO wrote:
As another poster mentioned, the mains (and protected 3rds) seem a little bit too big.
Personally, I'm 100% opposed to minerals on the edge of cliffs like on this map, also seen in Desert Oasis. I think it promotes cheesey builds and really takes away from the experience. Especially now, where the high ground advantage is only vision.
Not sure if it's like that or not, but the left path seems a bit narrower at the top than the right path. May mean nothing because I can't see actual scale, but it seems pretty tight on the left. Almost enough that sieged Tanks on the other side of the water could cut units off trying to hug the cliff to get out of the main. it's not i checked. look at the alternate version at the bottom of the OP and tell my what you think about it.
That kind of makes that choke out of the natural very Blistering Sands-ish. Would be really easy to set up and maintain a contain because your only other path out would be killing double stacked rocks and having massive units, kind of hard to hide what you're doing.
What about just moving the minerals? Or instead of making it water, use LoS bushes to make the terrain a bit more lenient.
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Personally I like the map. But for a third I like the top expos. Because its just there for the push path. I mean unless your Z.
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Wow that looks really cool!
Only thing that I don't like on the first look is the distance between the main and that base underneath it. Makes it too prone to some blinking action imo.
Good job!
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/XizorHalfwingseen/butterflyeffectMains.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/XizorHalfwingseen/butterflyeffectNatural.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/XizorHalfwingseen/butterflyeffectThird.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/XizorHalfwingseen/butterflyeffectFourth.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/XizorHalfwingseen/butterflyeffectPartial.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/XizorHalfwingseen/butterflyeffectHighYield.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/XizorHalfwingseen/butterflyeffectLOSblockers.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/XizorHalfwingseen/butterflyeffectAirgroundcontrolpath.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/XizorHalfwingseen/butterflyeffectDefenderAdvantage.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i973.photobucket.com/albums/ae216/XizorHalfwingseen/butterflyeffectv0_0alt.jpg)
