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Blizzard Terms of Use:
Game clients and Service.
The Game clients and the Service (including without limitation any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialogue, catch phrases, concepts, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, methods of operation, moral rights, documentation, in-game chat transcripts, character profile information, recordings or replays of Games, and the Game client and server software) are copyrighted works owned by Blizzard and its licensors.
My response:
Woah Woah Woah. This is the same bullshit Kespa was pulling. This is 100 percent not right!
An artists work, is the artists work. The makers of paint dont control him. Complete 100 percent bullshit.
If this is allowed to happen you will have the same terrible IF NOT WORSE situation that BW progamers are in right now, getting jipped money wise for what they produce. Unless blizzard is fair about it, and is just doing another Kespa cock block.
This is not fair for the players at all and everyone with a head on their shoulders be 100 percent against this.
Do you agree?
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so a progamer cant sell his replays but blizzard can? LOL e-sports is dead...
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I hate to tell you but Blizzard has always owned replays if you read the fine print. This isn't anything new.
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This has ALWAYS been the case with EVERY Blizzard game. No one can make money from selling replays that way, a good thing imo.
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If you notice, it says recordings too. So potentially blizzard could start charging EVERYONE who wants to make youtube videos or casting anything if they wanted.
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Yeah it's understandable i can't sell my replays, but if blizzard makes money off my replays i legally have no claim to that money.
(not saying my replays are worth jack, it's hypothetical)
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On June 05 2010 07:25 Tinithor wrote:
If you notice, it says recordings too. So potentially blizzard could start charging EVERYONE who wants to make youtube videos or casting anything if they wanted.
Yes, but they haven't done so for the last 15 years. And I doubt selling youtube videos is a particular attractive market for a multi billion company.
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where is the quote about blizzard saying they're gonna start charging for watching replays?
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It's not new. It's the same case with World of warcraft machinima. Since the product uses their product, you can't make profit off of it without their consent.
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On June 05 2010 07:28 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2010 07:25 Tinithor wrote:
If you notice, it says recordings too. So potentially blizzard could start charging EVERYONE who wants to make youtube videos or casting anything if they wanted. Yes, but they haven't done so for the last 15 years. And I doubt selling youtube videos is a particular attractive market for a multi billion company.
They weren't in league with Activision for the last 15 years either.
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On June 05 2010 07:32 CheezDip wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2010 07:28 Eury wrote:On June 05 2010 07:25 Tinithor wrote:
If you notice, it says recordings too. So potentially blizzard could start charging EVERYONE who wants to make youtube videos or casting anything if they wanted. Yes, but they haven't done so for the last 15 years. And I doubt selling youtube videos is a particular attractive market for a multi billion company. They weren't in league with Activision for the last 15 years either.
Amen to that.
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On June 05 2010 07:25 Tinithor wrote:
If you notice, it says recordings too. So potentially blizzard could start charging EVERYONE who wants to make youtube videos or casting anything if they wanted.
lol I dont think they are that stupid. If anything then they would invest money in that and not suck money out of it.
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I love how many people assume that Blizzard reserving the legal rights to something means they are going to do the most abusive thing possible with those rights.
This is just lawyer business to secure a good position for themselves if they are ever under lawsuit or need to throw some legal weight around.
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On June 05 2010 07:32 CheezDip wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2010 07:28 Eury wrote:On June 05 2010 07:25 Tinithor wrote:
If you notice, it says recordings too. So potentially blizzard could start charging EVERYONE who wants to make youtube videos or casting anything if they wanted. Yes, but they haven't done so for the last 15 years. And I doubt selling youtube videos is a particular attractive market for a multi billion company. They weren't in league with Activision for the last 15 years either.
Vivendi ( the owner of Activision-Blizzard) has been Blizzard's owner since 98.
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On June 05 2010 07:25 Tinithor wrote:
If you notice, it says recordings too. So potentially blizzard could start charging EVERYONE who wants to make youtube videos or casting anything if they wanted.
But smart money says they won't, because it would hurt the game (and esports in general). As far as I know (which could be wrong) regarding intellectual property, blizzard has, does, and will maintain ownership of replays from their games. Nothing new.
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If Blizzard didn't own replays, sites like SC2P could make people subscribe in order to download replays.
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OP I think you are just being whiny and nit-picky. I seriously doubt that this will have any negative affect, they are simply protecting their bases. When you are a giant corporation you need to do these things 
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From the EFF on the case between Blizzard, publisher of World of Warcraft, and MDY, publisher of the Glider bot.
"in Section 117 of the Copyright Act, Congress gave owners of computer software the right to use their legitimately purchased software without having to rely on permissions in license agreements. Blizzard and other software vendors are arguing that customers are not owners, but mere licensees, in an effort to eliminate our rights under Section 117. "
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I'm no lawyer but this reminds me of the nfl/nba/ect owning rights to all future telecasts.
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Selling replays would be like selling gold in WoW. Nothing wrong with the rules Blizzard has for that. I really doubt they will be selling replays themselves in the future.
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anyone else really sick of these threads taking the TOU and EULA and trying to find some little line that really means nothing but making some huge deal of blizzard protecting their rights?
Jesus fuck, this shit is nothing new. Chill out, play the game, have fun. Blizzard isn't looking to screw you out of playing the game.
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Last time I checked the ToS/EULA, Blizzard owns all content contained in and generated by their games. This was the case in StatCraft: Brood War as well. It doesn't mean you can't distribute it, it just means you can't make money off of it without their explicit (and probably written) consent.
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On June 05 2010 07:37 EnderW wrote:OP I think you are just being whiny and nit-picky. I seriously doubt that this will have any negative affect, they are simply protecting their bases. When you are a giant corporation you need to do these things
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Yet another pointless thread.
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Replays have always been the property of Blizzard. That's why you can't make a WoW pvp video and sell it, or use it in a commercial way, without explicit permission by Blizzard.
Even though it's the player controlling the units in the game, it's still blizzard's game engine, 3d models, graphics, music, etc.
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On June 05 2010 07:28 Eury wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2010 07:25 Tinithor wrote:
If you notice, it says recordings too. So potentially blizzard could start charging EVERYONE who wants to make youtube videos or casting anything if they wanted. Yes, but they haven't done so for the last 15 years. And I doubt selling youtube videos is a particular attractive market for a multi billion company.
If somebody would run popular channel then they could demand from him to get commercial, and pay them. They become much more greedy after they had become billion dollar company so your argument is rather silly, it would not take much work for them to send an email.
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Man people complaining about the ToS are so annoying, it's just lawyer business.
It's pretty much just there to ensure that no one starts selling replays or charging people to view replays on a website or w/e.
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My limited, remaining faith in humanity dips just a little bit every time one of you idiots post something like this.
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As long as Blizzard don't charge me to download replays, I don't care.
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I was going to say that it was unreasonable to argue that replay files could be see as art from the user, but I just thought of a way to argue this.
People shouldn't poo-poo these threads. There is a very serious ongoing legal discussion regarding the future of software rights. You may only care about SC2 but there is a bigger picture that some of us can appreciate.
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On June 05 2010 07:25 Tinithor wrote:
If you notice, it says recordings too. So potentially blizzard could start charging EVERYONE who wants to make youtube videos or casting anything if they wanted.
They'd have to contend with the doctrine of fair use, since one could argue that the footage is being used for the purpose of review.
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Did you know it is also bad if you record NFL games, cut the footage and make an "Awesome Plays" video and then go and sell that without consent from the NFL? This is an issue that is used in anything that is media/entertainment business. Move along.
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nothing new, nothing to see here
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Blizzard just want to hold the rights, which is reasonable. They are not gonna abuse it over regular people just for another 2 cents and screw their gaming policy over the world. It is just always good to be prepared on law side that is all.
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Hey guys. PSST. I'LL SELL YOU FLASH SC2 REPLAYS 20 bucks a pop.
Look, I know Blizzard isn't doing so great in our communities eyes, but like everyone's already been saying, a few of you fellows are looking at this thing a little too hard. They aren't going to take over the world anytime soon. I promise.
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If they did not have that line in EULA, a company could make a league and stream only replays. Or maybe they need that line to publish replays from their own proleague?
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United States47024 Posts
On June 05 2010 08:05 Polis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2010 07:28 Eury wrote:On June 05 2010 07:25 Tinithor wrote:
If you notice, it says recordings too. So potentially blizzard could start charging EVERYONE who wants to make youtube videos or casting anything if they wanted. Yes, but they haven't done so for the last 15 years. And I doubt selling youtube videos is a particular attractive market for a multi billion company. If somebody would run popular channel then they could demand from him to get commercial, and pay them. They become much more greedy after they had become billion dollar company so your argument is rather silly, it would not take much work for them to send an email.
Jon747 has more than 50 million upload views. Not huge, but more than several channels run by various companies. If Blizzard wanted to squeeze him for money, they could have done so a long time ago.
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On June 05 2010 08:11 TotalBiscuit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2010 07:25 Tinithor wrote:
If you notice, it says recordings too. So potentially blizzard could start charging EVERYONE who wants to make youtube videos or casting anything if they wanted. They'd have to contend with the doctrine of fair use, since one could argue that the footage is being used for the purpose of review.
If they would even brother with that, then it would with somebody that have popular channel where he updates games often. It is rather obvious that commentaries are not reviews you would want to go with curt, and lie about it? It is not as ridiculous as it may seem:
-very small cost for blizzard, just send some emails, who would want to go to curt against them, and they would likely win in most.
-popular youtube channels make profit on commercials, and Blizzard would just get a cut from it while doing nothing.
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On June 05 2010 07:21 RodrigoX wrote:Woah Woah Woah. This is the same bullshit Kespa was pulling. This is 100 percent not right!
An artists work, is the artists work. The makers of paint dont control him. Complete 100 percent bullshit.
Let's not start wth that againg....
Personally I couldn't care less.
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On June 05 2010 08:16 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2010 08:05 Polis wrote:On June 05 2010 07:28 Eury wrote:On June 05 2010 07:25 Tinithor wrote:
If you notice, it says recordings too. So potentially blizzard could start charging EVERYONE who wants to make youtube videos or casting anything if they wanted. Yes, but they haven't done so for the last 15 years. And I doubt selling youtube videos is a particular attractive market for a multi billion company. If somebody would run popular channel then they could demand from him to get commercial, and pay them. They become much more greedy after they had become billion dollar company so your argument is rather silly, it would not take much work for them to send an email. Jon747 has more than 50 million upload views. Not huge, but more than several channels run by various companies. If Blizzard wanted to squeeze him for money, they could have done so a long time ago.
Jon747 obviously doesn't meet the criteria that I had set myself before:
"If somebody would run popular channel then they could demand from him to get commercial, and pay them."
jon747 videos are viewed by very small number of people there is no money there, he can't get commercial, and make much from it, but if the numbers that hdh invitational have could be sustain they could want the channel to be commercialized, and take cut from commercials money
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People are getting paranoid here. They do it to stop others from charging for game content. Something similar happened in wow. Some pro players made a community and charged people for videos but then Blizzard came and told them to make it free or gtfo.
I don't like cross realm and LAN issues (I believe chat will be ok as it is in their interest) but people here are trying to bash on Blizzard for every little thing. Blizzard aren't doing everything just to screw you over so chill.
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Blizzard needs to put in the EULA that they also own the oxygen you breath while you are logged into their server.
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what i dont get is, boxer had a DVD with his games for sale. how would be such a thing handled now? some people say it was the same in sc1, but if it was: how could he sell his own DVD?.
this is so stupid, its like asking the guys who make soccer balls if TV channels can show the games (or how much fee you have to give)...
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On June 05 2010 07:21 RodrigoX wrote:
Blizzard Terms of Use:
Game clients and Service.
The Game clients and the Service (including without limitation any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialogue, catch phrases, concepts, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, methods of operation, moral rights, documentation, in-game chat transcripts, character profile information, recordings or replays of Games, and the Game client and server software) are copyrighted works owned by Blizzard and its licensors.
My response:
Woah Woah Woah. This is the same bullshit Kespa was pulling. This is 100 percent not right!
An artists work, is the artists work. The makers of paint dont control him. Complete 100 percent bullshit.
If this is allowed to happen you will have the same terrible IF NOT WORSE situation that BW progamers are in right now, getting jipped money wise for what they produce. Unless blizzard is fair about it, and is just doing another Kespa cock block.
This is not fair for the players at all and everyone with a head on their shoulders be 100 percent against this.
Do you agree?
It's a contract.
If a painter bought paint from someone and agreed beforehand that anything he paints with the paint belongs to the paint manufacturer, then, yes, the paint manufacturer would own the paintings.
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This why they want replays for all ladder matches. Not to "even the playing field," but to potentially charge people for Pro-level replays. The old Blizzard we once knew is dead.
(Semi-joking, but not really)
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On June 05 2010 08:47 AmstAff wrote:
what i dont get is, boxer had a DVD with his games for sale. how would be such a thing handled now? some people say it was the same in sc1, but if it was: how could he sell his own DVD?.
this is so stupid, its like asking the guys who make soccer balls if TV channels can show the games (or how much fee you have to give)...
Just because Blizzard didn't sue him for the sale of his DVD doesn't mean they waive all future rights in their IP.
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On June 05 2010 08:47 AmstAff wrote:
what i dont get is, boxer had a DVD with his games for sale. how would be such a thing handled now? some people say it was the same in sc1, but if it was: how could he sell his own DVD?.
this is so stupid, its like asking the guys who make soccer balls if TV channels can show the games (or how much fee you have to give)...
Yes, because a soccer ball is to soccer what Starcraft is to Starcraft. Someone needs to stop General from bleeding into the other forums, put a cap on it.
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This is old news and Blizzard has this clause to specifically remove people from attempting to sell replay packs and footage from events. It is there to allow us players to view a million replays by players without worrying about going to a site that is selling them. That is why to this day, you can search for replays and not worry about sifting through hundreds of websites attempting to sell you "premium" replay content. It is not their intent, going by the last 15 years of this practice, to horde the replays and sell them to us. At the worst they may attempt to sell the video production of large events as memorabilia.
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On June 05 2010 08:52 blue.devils wrote:
It's a contract.
ToS/EULAs are not valid contracts, case-law on the matter points to that fact. Might wanna do a little legal research before making such remarks.
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Just like Blizzard, we're not free — we're only liscensed.
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On June 05 2010 08:13 Zhou wrote:
Hey guys. PSST. I'LL SELL YOU FLASH SC2 REPLAYS 20 bucks a pop.
Look, I know Blizzard isn't doing so great in our communities eyes, but like everyone's already been saying, a few of you fellows are looking at this thing a little too hard. They aren't going to take over the world anytime soon. I promise.
pm'd... i really need my fix.
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They just don't want sites selling replays, I very much doubt they're going to try and make a profit by selling replays.
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On June 05 2010 08:55 KingPants wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2010 08:47 AmstAff wrote:
what i dont get is, boxer had a DVD with his games for sale. how would be such a thing handled now? some people say it was the same in sc1, but if it was: how could he sell his own DVD?.
this is so stupid, its like asking the guys who make soccer balls if TV channels can show the games (or how much fee you have to give)... Yes, because a soccer ball is to soccer what Starcraft is to Starcraft. Someone needs to stop General from bleeding into the other forums, put a cap on it.
isn't it? starcraft is a tool like a ball and you still need the environment to play. for soccer a stadium or something and for starcraft a PC, keyboard and such things.
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On June 05 2010 07:21 RodrigoX wrote:
Blizzard Terms of Use:
Game clients and Service.
The Game clients and the Service (including without limitation any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialogue, catch phrases, concepts, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, methods of operation, moral rights, documentation, in-game chat transcripts, character profile information, recordings or replays of Games, and the Game client and server software) are copyrighted works owned by Blizzard and its licensors.
My response:
Woah Woah Woah. This is the same bullshit Kespa was pulling. This is 100 percent not right!
An artists work, is the artists work. The makers of paint dont control him. Complete 100 percent bullshit.
If this is allowed to happen you will have the same terrible IF NOT WORSE situation that BW progamers are in right now, getting jipped money wise for what they produce. Unless blizzard is fair about it, and is just doing another Kespa cock block.
This is not fair for the players at all and everyone with a head on their shoulders be 100 percent against this.
Do you agree?
Two things will not hold up in the Blizzard TOS. One being the rights to the software. In the US if you purchase the software; you own it. A case in the state of Washington set the president for that legality. Take a look here:
http://www.citizen.org/documents/vernororder.pdfUnited State Legal Reference
The second is ownership of the replays. There was a case between a software manufacturer and a user of the software. The case found the file that results from the software program belongs to the author of the file. I cant find the case(I've been search for about the last hour) but if anyone can find it please post.
The case basically said, if a paper company sold a ream of paper to someone who typed up a novel with it, neither the paper company nor the manufacturer of the type writer would own it. Same is the case with software and hardware.
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What's wrong with people selling their own replays/recordings if people wish to pay good money for them? I think I would be in the market for, say, a DVD of epic matches with awesome commentary, or something similar. If a broadcasting company released "Best Games of Proleague 09/10" or "Flash's games with his own strategic commentary" in a fan pack or something, wouldn't people naturally buy it? Killing the profit angle is ensuring this will never happen.
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About the rights on replays: this is stupid. Probably some lawyer put that into the terms of use thinking on the safety of the company, but it is just a dumb move. Often it won't make a difference, since Blizzard doesn't want to be keeping track of replays ; and if by any reason it ends up actually making a difference, there'll be an uproar and they'll have to drop their right.
And that's pretty much the same thing for the rights on recording. Sure, they can claim these rights on their user agreement, but as far as I know, most of the country's laws/constitutions will give these rights to the actual makers of the content by default if there's no explicit commercial contract; so it is the same thing: if they ever try use this for anything, it will backfire.
This just helps their administrative section's image to sink even lower, and doesn't give them anything in exchange.
Just, dumb.
EDIT: fixing misswording, clarifying.
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From Starcraft 1
END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT
1. Limited Use License. Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. ("Blizzard"), hereby grants, and by installing the Program you thereby accept, a limited, non-exclusive license and right to install and use one (1) copy of the Program for your use on either a home or portable computer. In addition, the Program has a multi-player capability that allows up to eight players per registered version of the Program to play concurrently. These additional copies of the Program are known as and referred to hereafter as Spawned Versions." You may install Spawned Versions of the Program on an unlimited number of computers. However, Spawned Versions of the Program must be played in conjunction with the registered version of the Program from which they were spawned. All of the terms and conditions of the License Agreement shall also apply to the Spawned Version of the Program, with the exception that the Spawned Version Program may be installed on as many computers as you wish. The Program also contains a Campaign Editor (the "Editor") that allows you to create custom levels or other materials for your personal use in connection with the Program ("New Materials"). All use of the Editor or any New Materials is subject to this License Agreement. The Program is licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Program.
2. Ownership. All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Program and any and all copies thereof (including but not limited to any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, animations, sounds, musical compositions, audio-visual effects, methods of operation, moral rights, any related documentation, and "applets" incorporated into the Program) are owned by Blizzard Entertainment or its licensors. The Program is protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international copyright treaties and conventions and other laws. All rights are reserved. The Program contains certain licensed materials and Blizzard's licensors may protect their rights in the event of any violation of this Agreement.
Funny how suddenly some people read what is usually just an annoying screen to click away.
Seems to me it was there all along and in every game.
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Its blizzards product they can do w/e they want with it. There copyrights and shit not kespas Just like ever other video company has rights over there games and what ever is made with them in terms of replays or content.
Blizzard does not want some company making money off its product they will never care about the solo person or small events but somthign like kespa they will crush rightly so. They want to direct there product the way they want to and get the money for it /shrug. Its easy to see y blizzard did it theres still going to be toruments and E sports and all that shit just going to be done by blizzard or somone under blizzard leadership.
They will not mess with the small time few people doing maps or small torunys or w/e they don't want a huge company making millions off there products.
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EPT
