EPTMid-Late Reaper Plays - Page 4
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Deviation
United States134 Posts
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baytripper
United States170 Posts
On June 06 2010 08:05 Deviation wrote: Why did they remove the Reaper's old D-8 charges ability? uh... they didn't all documented changes to the reaper: Patch 1 (version 0.3.0.14093) * The damage done from D-8 Charges has decreased from 40 to 30. * The delay between attacks for D-8 Charges has decreased from 2.5 to 1.8. Patch 2 (version 0.4.0.14133) * The build time was increased from 30 to 40. * Nitro Boost: The build time was increased from 90 to 100. Patch 15 (version 0.17.0.15623) * Nitro Packs research cost decreased from 100/100 to 50/50. | ||
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Bigpon86
United States238 Posts
On June 06 2010 08:07 baytripper wrote: uh... they didn't all documented changes to the reaper: Patch 1 (version 0.3.0.14093) * The damage done from D-8 Charges has decreased from 40 to 30. * The delay between attacks for D-8 Charges has decreased from 2.5 to 1.8. Patch 2 (version 0.4.0.14133) * The build time was increased from 30 to 40. * Nitro Boost: The build time was increased from 90 to 100. Patch 15 (version 0.17.0.15623) * Nitro Packs research cost decreased from 100/100 to 50/50. He said the OLD d-8 charge ability which wasn't a secondary attack but rather an ability that laid down explosives where you clicked that exploded a couple seconds later for terrible terrible damage. | ||
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UnburrowedLurker
United States41 Posts
On June 06 2010 08:07 baytripper wrote: uh... they didn't all documented changes to the reaper: Patch 1 (version 0.3.0.14093) * The damage done from D-8 Charges has decreased from 40 to 30. * The delay between attacks for D-8 Charges has decreased from 2.5 to 1.8. Patch 2 (version 0.4.0.14133) * The build time was increased from 30 to 40. * Nitro Boost: The build time was increased from 90 to 100. Patch 15 (version 0.17.0.15623) * Nitro Packs research cost decreased from 100/100 to 50/50. He's not talking about their boring as dirt secondary attack... He's talking about their old ability. They basically threw down a C4 packet on the ground and after a shot time it exploded and did AoE damage. It was used to make an enemy retreat during battle or basically rape buildings during a base raid. It was removed before the start of the beta. | ||
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perfectflaw72
Canada94 Posts
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baytripper
United States170 Posts
On June 06 2010 08:15 UnburrowedLurker wrote: He's not talking about their boring as dirt secondary attack... He's talking about their old ability. They basically threw down a C4 packet on the ground and after a shot time it exploded and did AoE damage. It was used to make an enemy retreat during battle or basically rape buildings during a base raid. It was removed before the start of the beta. well i don't see why you'd whine about an ability you never even got to use pre-beta reapers had their own production building that followed a weird wc3 production scheme, it was all just too complicated and overpowered and the unit was completely redesigned for the beta | ||
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Hider
Denmark9376 Posts
This means that a terran player can have something like 5-6 reapers at midgame with a range of 8 and a pretty good speed with the addition of the nitro packs. The total cost of this would be: 300/150+50/50+250/250 = 600/450. So definately not cheap. But the reapers would be extremly effective against any ground unit that is not: A) A siege tank, B) A collosus, C) Stalkers with blink, D) Hydras. However if the oppenent does not realize that the terran players go for reaper harass he could be will be at a signaficant disadvantage if he gets to many roaches/stalkers (while not having the building that is required for blink which name I forgot, doh), zealots, sentries, marines, maudaredrs and so on. Really these upgrades would make the reaper very usefull against most groud units in mid as well as late game. Especially if the oppenent does not scout correctly. This also will make the reaper usefull against static defenses unlikele the hellion, which now is too similar with the reaper. These upgrades will also make the vulnerable reaper a little more usefull in combats, as it can stay behind the MM army, and thereby being more protected. However it would probably not be overpowered as it would take 210 seconds + enginerring bay time + the fact that reapers take long time to produce. | ||
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UnburrowedLurker
United States41 Posts
A: Too frail. 50HP is nothing when they have any type of army in their base besides maybe lings/rines. This prevents them from begin used in any type of army, and really even effective base raiders. B: Too expensive. 50 gas is way to much for what is essentially a suicide unit. It should be 25 gas 75 minerals, so they still are expensive to make early game, but possible to make late game. C: Too slow. Even with the nitro packs, they aren't even as fast as speedlings.This doesn't seem like a big problem, but they really need to be as fast as possible. Even with their current speed, they can't really get out of where they need to be without loosing +50% of their numbers. | ||
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RAZROK
Latvia49 Posts
On June 07 2010 02:30 UnburrowedLurker wrote: I've been trying to use reapers... And while I'm definitely not the best player out there, I don't really see how you could ever get your moneys worth out of them. The reapers suffer from three big design flaws. A: Too frail. 50HP is nothing when they have any type of army in their base besides maybe lings/rines. This prevents them from begin used in any type of army, and really even effective base raiders. B: Too expensive. 50 gas is way to much for what is essentially a suicide unit. It should be 25 gas 75 minerals, so they still are expensive to make early game, but possible to make late game. C: Too slow. Even with the nitro packs, they aren't even as fast as speedlings.This doesn't seem like a big problem, but they really need to be as fast as possible. Even with their current speed, they can't really get out of where they need to be without loosing +50% of their numbers. So basically you want ranged zerglings that jump up and down cliffs and have more hp + that demolish buildings? Hmmmmm... Right.... Make T even more powerful. | ||
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MythicalMage
1360 Posts
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Deviation
United States134 Posts
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ERGO
United States168 Posts
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HalfAmazing
Netherlands402 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Currently they are useless because: - They cost sooooooo much fucking gas. - They can't outrun speedlings even with speed upgrade. Seriously, that makes them just completely worthless on any map that isn't... I dunno, Kulas or LT? You can't make them cheaper gas wise or they'll be too easy to cheese with, which is why they need a huge redesign. Maybe require a building to unlock, let them build from reactor... maybe if they need a building to unlock they could be 25 gas or something. Give them some kind of map control ability - maybe not spider mines but some kind of mini-sensor ping thingy. If they still had their D8 charges you could throw around, I might make them to kill creep tumors. | ||
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GeorgeForeman
United States1746 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On June 07 2010 03:44 FrozenArbiter wrote: I don't agree, I think it's a great unit that just needs to be completely redesigned ;/ Currently they are useless because: - They cost sooooooo much fucking gas. - They can't outrun speedlings even with speed upgrade. Seriously, that makes them just completely worthless on any map that isn't... I dunno, Kulas or LT? You can't make them cheaper gas wise or they'll be too easy to cheese with, which is why they need a huge redesign. Maybe require a building to unlock, let them build from reactor... maybe if they need a building to unlock they could be 25 gas or something. Give them some kind of map control ability - maybe not spider mines but some kind of mini-sensor ping thingy. If they still had their D8 charges you could throw around, I might make them to kill creep tumors. For building requirements I'd suggest factory or engineering bay. Or, heck, armory. Just anything is better than right now. It all depends on how late you want them to come out, I'm pretty sure engineering bay would delay reaper cheese long enough, though the armory seems like another interesting choice to me... | ||
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Starparty
Sweden1963 Posts
 Mabye its getting cheese protected. | ||
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baytripper
United States170 Posts
On June 07 2010 02:59 MythicalMage wrote: Additionally, you can use them to snipe templar and infestors. uh have you ever actually done that? infestors are armored that would take forever and anyway for the price of two reapers you could make a banshee which will kill one in half the time and be generally more useful against zerg | ||
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UnburrowedLurker
United States41 Posts
On June 07 2010 02:41 RAZROK wrote: So basically you want ranged zerglings that jump up and down cliffs and have more hp + that demolish buildings? Hmmmmm... Right.... Make T even more powerful. Way to take what I said simplify it to the point of ridiculousness. If it wasn't clear to anyone else, I think they need one of these. Not all three. | ||
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Reply
9 Posts
Remove jet pack, increase move speed upgrade, replace with upgrade to give their jet packs back (have it take long enough that it can't be up 'til about the 4 minute mark), and then lower build time to marine speed? Idea being to make them a bit more mass-able in the mid-game but severely limit their ability to early harass since they wouldn't start with the ability to ignore terrain. Would that fix anything at all? | ||
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