EPTMid-Late Reaper Plays - Page 7
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jgravel
Canada2 Posts
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
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ForKvatch
United States54 Posts
On June 26 2010 08:49 jgravel wrote: Reapers are awesome... if you forget the defense, 25 reapers will destroy your main in a minute... A minute is a really long time... and 25 reapers are really expensive... | ||
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jerry507
United States11 Posts
On June 25 2010 08:58 BlackDraft wrote: Have you seen what fungal growth does to reapers? mid-late if Z has infestors reapers are not an option. If you read my post, you'd have seen that I used an example. If you're dropping someones base and they have an infestor back there? Yea, you're pretty much boned. Would having two marines in place of two reapers make you not boned? I don't think so. It surprises me how many people will post something along the lines of "Omg but ability X is soo much worse for reapers" or like above "Have you seen ability x vs reapers?" when in reality it's the exact same spell vs reapers and marines. | ||
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Spidermonkey
United States251 Posts
On June 26 2010 09:10 jerry507 wrote: If you read my post, you'd have seen that I used an example. If you're dropping someones base and they have an infestor back there? Yea, you're pretty much boned. Would having two marines in place of two reapers make you not boned? I don't think so. It surprises me how many people will post something along the lines of "Omg but ability X is soo much worse for reapers" or like above "Have you seen ability x vs reapers?" when in reality it's the exact same spell vs reapers and marines. However Marines are more versatile. I think that is what people are trying to point out. Reapers are good at one thing, early harass and building sniping. The problem is Terran's have other units which fulfill those roles and intergate into the main army well. Until they get an ability which makes them desirable late game, don't expect to see them in standard play. | ||
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BlackDraft
United States64 Posts
On June 26 2010 09:10 jerry507 wrote: If you read my post, you'd have seen that I used an example. If you're dropping someones base and they have an infestor back there? Yea, you're pretty much boned. Would having two marines in place of two reapers make you not boned? I don't think so. It surprises me how many people will post something along the lines of "Omg but ability X is soo much worse for reapers" or like above "Have you seen ability x vs reapers?" when in reality it's the exact same spell vs reapers and marines. Reapers, unlike Marines, cost 50 gas. Gas is crucial for Terran, especially mid to late game. Additionally, mid-late v. Zerg, Z likely has infestors, and good sight around their bases with creep and overlords. As I said before, I don't think reapers are an option in the mid to late game. I hope you find this answer sufficient. | ||
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Jacobs Ladder
United States1705 Posts
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tfmdjeff
United States170 Posts
Say, if you had a group of 15 of them on Kulas Ravine. If you scouted your opponent taking an expansion, you just snipe it in a second with those grenades and run before he gets an army there to reinforce. It seems like it could be really effective. You could say that that's a waste of 750minerals/750 gas and 15 supply, but honestly. If you're aware of the existence of siege tanks you're going to have more than enough to keep you safe inside your base, even without that 15 extra supply. | ||
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sikyon
Canada1045 Posts
However, all that would be required to fix them would be an AI toggle option and possibly an upgrade. The AI toggle option would make them shoot between light military and workers. this would make it much eaisier to micro them so even justing just a few late game pays dividends in terms of the amount of micro they require for you to use and the amount of micro your opponent requires to kill them. An armory upgrade that lets them move and shoot would be devastating as well. | ||
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jerry507
United States11 Posts
The thing is, reapers are a very niche unit. They have the cliff jump ability and they have this amazing pair of attacks. Somewhere on the forum was a list of DPS per unit type and reapers were pretty far up there. They do more damage against light units than a hydralisk. They almost triple a marine or a marauder against light units. Ironically, as I pointed out above and literally no one has commented on, reapers and marauders are a fantastic mix. For a drop each one does bonus damage against the opposite type. This synergy would, IMO, make a big difference given that marauders with conc shell slow probes and reapers kill them. The faster the probes die, the more different targets marauders slow and the slow effect multiplies. Since his words seem to bring more legitimacy and resonance with people, I will invoke Day[9]. He had a daily about harassment and commented that harassment has to be worth it. Two reapers might be 100 gas invested that you are going to lose if your drop goes south. But you're already looking at 100 gas invested in marauders and another 100 in the medivac. Compare that with the potential gain you stand to get from your drop. That's just a choice we'll have to wait for the beta to come back online to analyze. Also, I think it's relatively misguided to say there are other units in the terran army that fulfill the same purpose. Banshees have a place in harassment but they aren't sustainable long term. Anyone is just going to get air defense right away and you're not harassing anymore. Hellions are a very legitimate choice. Personally from watching replays hellion drops are worth it only if you score a bit hit and that requires a lot of micro to get them right in the thick of things. You're also going to want the preigniter. You can either produce out of your one factory with a techlab if you're going bio or just get it along the way if you're mech. Either way it's somewhat out of the way. If you're going bio, you've got these hellions which are way faster than your bio army and you've got to pay more attention to. If you're going mech then you're not going to be dropping marauders much less getting a bunch of medivacs. It's frustrating cause I want to go try this  | ||
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peckham33
United States267 Posts
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SiegeFlank
United States410 Posts
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rbkl
772 Posts
Confirm/Deny? | ||
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jerry507
United States11 Posts
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Brokengamer
Philippines116 Posts
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NinjaDrone
United States97 Posts
I love the reaper and I really like the suggestions that people have been making. Here's my 2 cents. 1) Make the Reaper cost 75 minerals and 25 gas. Some people have mentioned that this would be too overpowered but I disagree. If you have 25 gas to spend on either a Reaper or a Marauder a lot of people are going to choose the Marauder. Obviously some play testing would need to be done though to check this theory. 2) Make the build time of the Reaper 35 seconds. Reapers used to be 30 seconds to build and that was too quick but 40 seconds is way too slow so why not split the difference. 3) Give the Reaper a mid/late game upgrade. The biggest problems with Reapers in mid/late game is they have no place in a large army structure and they are not as effective as other units/unit combinations when harassing. My favorite idea mentioned so far is a Lockdown type ability because it addresses both of these mid/late game deficiencies. This ability would make Reapers SO useful in major battles because they could swoop in and target critical units with Lockdown but since they are so fragile it would require excellent timing and micro. This ability would also make Reapers WAY more useful at harassing in mid/late game since they would be able to Lockdown small groups of units long enough to harass mineral lines, damage buildings and then retreat. I would favor making this ability an energy based ability (and giving Reapers energy) since it rewards players for keeping Reapers alive for long periods of time but having it on a cooldown would be fine too. | ||
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vT.sOel
122 Posts
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NinjaDrone
United States97 Posts
On June 27 2010 06:25 vT.sOel wrote: explain your lock down ability. would it be like wc3 ensnare? I only played WC3 briefly so I can't really say. I didn't come up with this idea, another person posted it earlier, though he didn't go into specific details about it. My thinking was that the ability should make a single unit immobile and unable to attack for a period of time, similar to the Ghost's Lockdown in Brood War. The difference would be that this Lockdown would work for a much shorter period of time but it could also target biological units, not just mechanical ones like the original Ghost's Lockdown. I guess the closest comparison in Starcraft II to this ability would be the Phoenix's Graviton Beam. However, you could also use this ability to create a wall of Lockdowned enemy units in chokes (something the Phoenix can't do.) This would prevent other units from escaping/engaging while the Lockdown was in effect. The Reaper also wouldn't have to channel it so this ability, in my opinion, would be more powerful than the Graviton Beam and therefore it would need to have a shorter duration than Graviton Beam to balance it. Its really tough to say what duration would be balanced but I was thinking maybe 5 seconds for 50 energy. Any thoughts on what duration to energy cost ratio would be balanced? | ||
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Hider
Denmark9376 Posts
On June 27 2010 06:14 NinjaDrone wrote: Hello all. I love the reaper and I really like the suggestions that people have been making. Here's my 2 cents. 1) Make the Reaper cost 75 minerals and 25 gas. Some people have mentioned that this would be too overpowered but I disagree. If you have 25 gas to spend on either a Reaper or a Marauder a lot of people are going to choose the Marauder. Obviously some play testing would need to be done though to check this theory. 2) Make the build time of the Reaper 35 seconds. Reapers used to be 30 seconds to build and that was too quick but 40 seconds is way too slow so why not split the difference. 3) Give the Reaper a mid/late game upgrade. The biggest problems with Reapers in mid/late game is they have no place in a large army structure and they are not as effective as other units/unit combinations when harassing. My favorite idea mentioned so far is a Lockdown type ability because it addresses both of these mid/late game deficiencies. This ability would make Reapers SO useful in major battles because they could swoop in and target critical units with Lockdown but since they are so fragile it would require excellent timing and micro. This ability would also make Reapers WAY more useful at harassing in mid/late game since they would be able to Lockdown small groups of units long enough to harass mineral lines, damage buildings and then retreat. I would favor making this ability an energy based ability (and giving Reapers energy) since it rewards players for keeping Reapers alive for long periods of time but having it on a cooldown would be fine too. All those 3 changes would be too much. I would only want 1 change: An upgrade. IMO its totally fine early game, however it is not a good idea to get 1 early game because you have no reason to keep it alive to mid/late game as it is useless. If it had some kind of upgrade if would be fine to get 2-5 early reapers, and then instead of suiciding them after the initial harass for some scouting, you could keep them alive, get the upgrade and use them in mid/late game. I think giving them mines as an upgrade would be fine. Another possibility would be a range upgrade, so they could stand behind the marines/mauruders in the battles and be usefull there. | ||
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vT.sOel
122 Posts
i think 5 second 50 energy sounds kind of strong. if the reaper died and it persisted than it could be pretty crazy . could be wrong though | ||
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