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On May 22 2010 07:34 palefountains wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 04:49 DooMDash wrote:On May 22 2010 04:47 koppik wrote:
I don't know if the void ray change was necessary. Except on desert oasis, I think players figured out how to come out ahead of the void ray-ing player. You think its OK for voids to out range bunkers w/ marines? It's not even a huge deal beyond that. Good change. terran already have turrets to counter VR, right? And terran can mass marines for aa from the beginning. I can understand void ray is too strong in terms of dps. But the range has been absolutely fine for me as a random player. The only problem for terran is that they have had less time to react and organize the marines for a VR rush.
a ball of marines counter fast void rays, the range nerf I think is ok because I always thought void rays had more range than was justified anyway... and it doesn't undermine how much DPS rays can put out, it just makes them less cheesey
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On May 22 2010 07:33 Xife wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 07:29 jtgizmo wrote:
here is a problem i have, i aint getting an update? wtf? Yeah, I'm having the same issue. The patcher does not even load. Just goes right to the login screen.
Sounds like you're loading with the SC2Switcher instead of the StarCraft II.exe, probably to bypass one of the previous patches which had the loop bug which kept looping the patch downloader.
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Ok, seriously..... wtf?
When this is called "Patch 13 Discussion", and I go and read through the first 10 pages, and most of it is one-liners, or complaining about the patch, and there are no serious Discussion about the patch, something is wrong.
+ Show Spoiler +I like the map publishing feature. It'll give us a chance to test our own stuff out. I've been waiting for this.
Forcefields needed something to counter them. I'm not sure if this was the best way to do it, but at least Blizzard is trying.
I don't think the Ultra needed the reduction in health, coupled with a decrease in damage against light units. However, their main advantage is splash damage, which is more effective against smaller units. I've had MMM balls demolished by Ultras, simply due to splash. Of course, I've never lost a game once Ultras hit the field, so.....
Infestor/Overseer changes - I'm not sure about these, but I'm not a Z player, so I'll just wait and see. It definitely makes the Overseer a more viable choice, other than simply needing it for mobile detection.
Void Rays, in mass, are pretty powerful. As a Terran, the only thing I can really do against it is fight them as far away from my bases as possible, with mass Vikings. Vikings use quite a bit of gas, so the rest of my army is mainly mineral-oriented and doesn't fair too well against the rest of the P arsenal, nor give me little ability to kill Cannons without severe losses..... A slight reduction in their capabilities is a good thing imo, although I wouldn't have called them imbalanced. They were, however, very annoying. Making Marines and Turrets more effective at dealing with them will help me defend against them, that's about all the patch did to them.
Terran upgrades are only really needed before a push of some kind. Making them cheaper does not really make the push come any faster, nor make it any stronger (ok, you could make a 4 Marauders instead of 4 Marines with the money saved, but its not really going to be a game-breaker imo). All the whining I've seen of this is totally unfounded.....
I'm looking forward to see how it plays out.
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i opened the editor after patch 13, the map publishing is in the menu dunno if it was already.... im not a map maker maybe you can already publish maps.
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On May 22 2010 07:37 Dionyseus wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 07:33 Xife wrote:On May 22 2010 07:29 jtgizmo wrote:
here is a problem i have, i aint getting an update? wtf? Yeah, I'm having the same issue. The patcher does not even load. Just goes right to the login screen. Sounds like you're loading with the SC2Switcher instead of the StarCraft II.exe, probably to bypass one of the previous patches which had the loop bug which kept looping the patch downloader.
Hmm, I never did change anything purposely, I'll get a buddy to send me his starcraft II.exe
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I still feel that the most fair nerf on the Void Rays is to force them to recharge when they switch to a new target. To my understanding, which may be incorrect (and if it is so, then please excuse me), the purpose of the Void Ray is to destroy capital ships and massive units. However, because Void Rays don't necessarily have to recharge with every new target, they can easily burn through tons and tons of marines or any other small/medium unit. Though I'm not that satisfied with this nerf, I'm glad Blizzard is addressing the Void Ray issue.
As for the stim pack and shields, I find it very helpful for Terrans to prevent the immortal timing push that comes when the Terran grabs his first expo. However, this could be detrimental to the Protoss game because with shields and stim, I highly doubt the Protoss will be able to break the Terran with the same timing push, which I believe is a valid strategy.
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Bloodlust, that takes me way back! I would have thought that a zergy stun-proof+defensive matrix type spell would have more application (although the closest I've got to the beta is watching far to many VODs, so I accept that may be bs).
Does anyone know, did blizzard explained why they cut that LOS blocking spell in some earlier builds? (on the overseer originally I believe) A clever little dark swarm lite spell sounded more interesting to me than some of the abilities which made the cut.
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On May 22 2010 07:45 cpw20 wrote:
Does anyone know, did blizzard explained why they cut that LOS blocking spell in some earlier builds? (on the overseer originally I believe) A clever little dark swarm lite spell sounded more interesting to me than some of the abilities which made the cut.
They said it was too clever and lead to way too many interesting gameplay dynamics. Eventually its started hurting there heads so they decided to stick with nice bland combat modifying spells.
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On May 22 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 07:45 cpw20 wrote:
Does anyone know, did blizzard explained why they cut that LOS blocking spell in some earlier builds? (on the overseer originally I believe) A clever little dark swarm lite spell sounded more interesting to me than some of the abilities which made the cut. They said it was too clever and lead to way too many interesting gameplay dynamics. Eventually its started hurting there heads so they decided to stick with nice bland combat modifying spells.
Yep.And too many casuals complained that it was too hard to beat.
But seriously, I'm sure that a lot of casual players who have never played BW, because "it's old" would consider spells like Dark Swarm (OMG, units do no damage under it) or plague (omg, it almost kills my whole army) imbalanced..
These minor buff/debuff spells (Corruption, Frenzy), as well as summoning spells (Auto-turret, infested terran), are so out of place in SC universe, I can't even believe it..
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LOL nice patch. MAHrines stim 100/100? does this mean STIM itself has been decreased from 150/150 to 100/100, or is there a SEPARATE NEW upgrade for stim for marines?
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it keeps saying i'm behind a firewall. I already turned off my firewall. Any suggestions?
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Finally got the patch installed, playing around in custom maps until bnet comes up. A couple of things I've noticed - I'm pretty sure the ultralisk's cleave was stealth nerfed. It definitely looks smaller, and isn't a 100% damage cleave - the main target is dying before the ones surrounding it. Never used them seriously before this patch, but I am about 90% certain that's not how it behaved before.
Edit: I am an idiot, there's no baneling bug.
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On May 22 2010 06:40 Cheezy wrote:
is the terran MM buff really that big of a deal
really, i had trouble getting the resources for combat shield and stim. that shit was expensive
Do you know how much for upgrading zealot charge, stalker blink, and psi storm???
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On May 22 2010 06:43 aust1nz wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 06:32 Eschaton wrote:On May 22 2010 06:30 aust1nz wrote:
It is a terran buff, but it's not making the MMM ball stronger; it's just putting an extra 100/100 in the terran player's pocket. How is not making MMM stronger if you can afford an extra two marines, or an extra marauder? It's not like MMM needed those. Here's what I'm trying to say: MMM balls come from pretty-much maxed out barracks; by the time they're ready to attack, in the games I've played, the marauder upgrade and stim have already been researched. Often, it seems the extra marine health waits until after that. The research time is unchanged; it doesn't really free up resources for extra marines or marauders because, again, the barracks are probably in full-production mode if the player is going for an MMM ball. Instead, this gives the player a chance to build out more inside of his own base, or expand faster. Anyways, all I'm trying to say is that, in my experience, it's the training time that limits early MMM balls, not the $$. And that will continue to be the case.
Do you stop making MM after your one-time early MMM balls? Think again. It takes forever for protoss to expand the second base facing terran.
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On May 22 2010 07:56 MidKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2010 07:48 Archerofaiur wrote:On May 22 2010 07:45 cpw20 wrote:
Does anyone know, did blizzard explained why they cut that LOS blocking spell in some earlier builds? (on the overseer originally I believe) A clever little dark swarm lite spell sounded more interesting to me than some of the abilities which made the cut. They said it was too clever and lead to way too many interesting gameplay dynamics. Eventually its started hurting there heads so they decided to stick with nice bland combat modifying spells. Yep.And too many casuals complained that it was too hard to beat. But seriously, I'm sure that a lot of casual players who have never played BW, because "it's old" would consider spells like Dark Swarm (OMG, units do no damage under it) or plague (omg, it almost kills my whole army) imbalanced.. These minor buff/debuff spells (Corruption, Frenzy), as well as summoning spells (Auto-turret, infested terran), are so out of place in SC universe, I can't even believe it..
it's the things that have single targets but don't have any sort of devastating effect that are out of place
it's because they are a waste of time/efficiency, there are more important things to do
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On May 22 2010 03:13 TSL-Lore wrote:
this further proves that Blizzard is destroying the Starcraft franchise that they so expertly created, back when their development teams actually cared about making a good game. Now, they've all become so fat with WoW money that they aren't even trying anymore.
Frenzy - what the hell is this shit? We're moving further and further away from a swarming race. What happened to my brutal Hydralisks that didn't give a shit about having a damage buff because they were so numerous? What happened to zerg not caring about dying because they'd just have more to replace them?
Ultralisk - the ONE unit that the zerg actually cared to genetically mutate to be HARD TO KILL has finally become easier to kill. Great job, Blizz.
Roaches - Still 2 food. Looks like the Terran United Earth Directorate cares LESS about human casualties (marines are 1 food, thus hoards of them die like ants) than kerrigan does about her underlings (2 food roach / 2 food hydra) .. Kerrigan must cry herself to sleep everytime one of her precious, expensive, slow moving, shit roach/hydra armies die.
There are too many fucking problems with this game to list here.
Holy crap what are you on about? The problems you listed are simply subjective lore-based arguments that have absolutely no foundation when discussing actual gameplay balance. A couple of major flaws in your statement:
1) Unsubstantiated claim about Blizzard not trying anymore albeit we have seen "major" changes throughout our time playing Beta
2) About Frenzy. First, your impression of a swarming race in terms of gameplay is subjective. Why are you dictating what the race should be like, and how the race should be played? What happened to your "brutal Hydralisks"? They're still there in SC2 but you can't rely on A-move so much and actually need other unit composition and micro.
3) Ultralisk argument - absurd.
4) So your argument is that a roach, which completely obliterates marines, should cost the same food? And then you base this on some ridiculous lore crapola and not discuss the actual gameplay substance and mechanism.
5) What you have listed are arguably not gameplay problems. They are what "you" believe zerg is like and the game should be modified to suit "your" expectations.
If you want lore, stick to singleplayer campaigns and refrain from discussing multiplayer gameplay balance.
Get over yourself.
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I hope someone makes the sc2 version of bgh 
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On May 22 2010 07:45 Curiosity wrote:
I still feel that the most fair nerf on the Void Rays is to force them to recharge when they switch to a new target. To my understanding, which may be incorrect (and if it is so, then please excuse me), the purpose of the Void Ray is to destroy capital ships and massive units. However, because Void Rays don't necessarily have to recharge with every new target, they can easily burn through tons and tons of marines or any other small/medium unit. Though I'm not that satisfied with this nerf, I'm glad Blizzard is addressing the Void Ray issue.
As for the stim pack and shields, I find it very helpful for Terrans to prevent the immortal timing push that comes when the Terran grabs his first expo. However, this could be detrimental to the Protoss game because with shields and stim, I highly doubt the Protoss will be able to break the Terran with the same timing push, which I believe is a valid strategy.
Void rays are horrible against massive units and capital ships, they are good against thors, but anyone who builds thors to counter void rays is going to lose. Their dps makes them much more effective against lightly hp units like marines. Of course, marines will be double effective at fighting void rays due to the viability of rushing the marine hitpoints now, too .
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EPT
