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Since they added this "Diamond League" ... does that mean there isn't going to be a "Pro League" or is this what is replacing that idea?
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On May 21 2010 13:53 PoD wrote:
Technically Overseers are 8 supply early game but the later the game goes on they are 0 supply and 150min/50gas (unless people only build enough lords for 200 food and stop). In theory the later a Zerg can push a game the larger they could make their army. This of course is all crazy theorycraft right now and it must be tested.
overseers give the same supply as overlords
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On May 21 2010 13:57 BlasiuS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 13:54 roark wrote:Corruption ability redesigned:
Single target.
Increases damage taken by 20%.
Lasts 30 seconds.
Costs 100 energy.
Range 6.
Cannot target structures. So now, Corrupt Mech + Frenzy Ultra = Dead Mech except why would you get corruptors vs a terran who is going mech?
I have a Ph. D in Theory-crafing?
At this point no one knows how anything will play out. We are all just guessing. Maybe getting a Corrupter for that damage buff will pay of, who knows.
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On May 21 2010 13:58 junemermaid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 13:53 Salv wrote:On May 21 2010 13:51 junemermaid wrote:On May 21 2010 13:38 Salv wrote:On May 21 2010 13:35 junemermaid wrote:On May 21 2010 13:32 Salv wrote:On May 21 2010 13:30 junemermaid wrote:On May 21 2010 13:21 asdfTT123 wrote:On May 21 2010 13:18 roark wrote:On May 21 2010 13:16 asdfTT123 wrote:
OMFG is Blizzard fucking retarded? Zerg is going to be so broken right now with the new Overseer and it doesn't take an "theory-crafting" to figure that out...
You can now get the same ability that the corruptor originally had without a spire from a unit that you probably were going to make anyways for scouting and detection. In PvZ, Robo tech will no longer be viable because they can just constantly delay units be sending in Overseers and corrupting the building. Thirty seconds is a LONG time in SC terms and 75 energy is NOT a lot of energy requirement to cast such a ridiculously power spell. Hell, if I was Z I would make three overseers if I saw the zerg going 2 robo colossi and just constantly corrupt the robotics so the protoss can do nothing. It's basically instant win right there... Seeing how it also works against upgrades, I'd probably cast in on their archives to delay storm or even weapon upgrades, which already take so damn long to finish in the first place.
I don't play T but I can see zergs getting fancy and pooping on factories to delay thors while mutas rip terrans to shreds. WTF
And wtf buff to terran infantry upgrades? What is blizzard thinking? I can live with the void ray nerf and sentry nerf (neither bug me that much) but I question where Blizzard is getting their figures from. Here is the flaw with your argument. If you buy a bunch of Overseers, you can't buy the Mutas. Zerg has to be super careful about their gas. 100g can go to either a Muta OR an Overseer but not both. In almost every PvZ I've played, the zerg always gets at least one overseer. WIth that overseer which was only originally used for changeling/scouting, you can now delay the P's colossi for basically no additional cost. I don't know about you, but I'd rather spend an extra 100-200 gas on another one or two overseers, keep them alive since they're pretty fast, and just corrupt the P's robo periodically. Good 200 gas well spent...don't care if it delays my spire. Hell, if I continue corrupting the robo, you won't NEED spire tech and you can safely go hydra to counter P's lack of colossi Oh ffs, kill the overseer, problem solved. Or make sure your robo bay isn't exposed to an easy contaminate hit... There are so many things you can do. Seriously you guys are complaining for nothing. Wait to see how it plays. You act like Blizzard didn't test out the patch internally. The overseer is a fast flying unit, if they want to contaminate your robo then they will be able to. You can only protect it if you surround it with your units a few matrix's away in each direction. I hear blink is a pretty useful ability. Yeah, because I have blink right after I expand, right? I don't prioritize a citadel and the blink upgrade over a robotics, support bay, thermal lance, and colossi. Overseers are units that all Zerg's make regardless, and they will come before I can do any thing reasonable to stop them from contaminating my building. The options are to either make high templar instead, or really focus on surrounding your robotics with your units so that it's very difficult to contaminate. Blink is stupid strong, dude. I don't see why you wouldn't get it early game, as that is when it is most effective... If you're rushing for a tier 3 unit (colossus) and prioritize it over increasing the usefulness of your tier 1 units, then thats the risk you take with getting contaminated. If you stick with mass stalker/sentry/zealot versus hydralisks you're going to get raped. You need colossus to deal with them, that is a fact. I have yet to see a single good Protoss prioritize getting charge or blink before getting colossus. 1800 platinum here, I can send you replays if you want. I don't get colossus until I have an expansion up (aound 60ish supply). Stalkers go toe to toe with hydras, especially with upgrades. Blink + charge zealots & sentries work wonders if you know how to use them. Gets a little more tricky when roaches are in play, but having a zerg get enough roaches + hydras to actually start to roll stalker / zealot / sentry takes a bit of time, at which point getting colossus is a priority. I just don't understand this mad rush for colossus...
Huh? Until expansion is up? That is what every one does, who rushes a colossus off of one base? You expand, make a citadel, prioritize blink and charge, then start working on robotics tech? Your colossus work take forever to come out. Tier 1 units can only deal with hydralisk for a finite amount of time before you're going to start losing hard. Most Protoss' expand, check what the opponent is doing, and if it's hydralisk like normal, they start to get colossi and the upgrade.
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I am a bit concerned about the Overseer functionality. Against Protoss or Terran you can contaminate their Nexus / CC denying two worker production cycles and then use Infested Terran to then kill two or three workers as well, effectively taking a five worker advantage just from an Overseer. Sounds pretty painful...
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On May 21 2010 14:01 Flameberger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 13:43 baconbits wrote:
massive units walking thru FF, a little late in the game imo but it is nice.
well to be fair the game hasn't come out yet, hard to say anything that's implemented before release is late... It seems to me that in most ways the Ultralisk is becoming a unit that would be good to have a small number supporting your army. They do huge damage especially with the new Frenzy on them but in large numbers most of them get wasted due to inability to get in attack range. Only problem with that is the Ultras are such a huge investment in the high tech and all of their upgrades that it doesn't really seem worth it for just a couple in your army.
When I said late in the game, I meant late during a match (teching time to get ultralisks), not "late in how long the game has been out"
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pretty sure theyll still have a pro league
probably jus took away coppe and add diamond so that the platinum/gold/silver players can be propperly distributed and there can be more even games
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so do you think they just renamed the leagues or is diamond league going to be a lot harder to get into than platinum?
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Patch NOTES have been up for how many hours, and you people are already up in arms?
I'm amazed at tl.net sometimes.
I can't wait to PLAY the patch before I make over exaggerated claims about it.
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On May 21 2010 14:02 TimeToPractice! wrote:
I am a bit concerned about the Overseer functionality. Against Protoss or Terran you can contaminate their Nexus / CC denying two worker production cycles and then use Infested Terran to then kill two or three workers as well, effectively taking a five worker advantage just from an Overseer. Sounds pretty painful...
And the same turrets that kill Mutas kill Overseer.
Yes Contaminate could punish people, but the Overseer didn't also gain the ability to dodge all incoming attacks.
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The zerg changes and the change to FF make sense, IMO, but the terran buffs are RETARDED. Why are they buffing marines? TvP has already been switching over to marine-based play and it's already really strong, what the hell...
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Not sure what all the hate with Frenzy is. It's not like it was any worse of a spell than Infested Terran. Hell, Infested Terran itself is much more WC3ish than Frenzy.
No harm in throwing away the other spells to the Overseer
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So... frenzy just says that the recipient of the buff does 25% more damage, but i wonder if it is purely weapon damage or all abilities too? Frenzy another infestor for 25% more damage dealt on fungal growth?? frenzy a ht in 2v2 for 25% more damage on psi storm?? I have a feeling that isn't how it works but who knows right?
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So do you think that FF will take Friendly fire massive walk overs ? Colos walkign over your own FF and killing them ? or ally ultras or thors
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On May 21 2010 14:02 Salv wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 13:58 junemermaid wrote:On May 21 2010 13:53 Salv wrote:On May 21 2010 13:51 junemermaid wrote:On May 21 2010 13:38 Salv wrote:On May 21 2010 13:35 junemermaid wrote:On May 21 2010 13:32 Salv wrote:On May 21 2010 13:30 junemermaid wrote:On May 21 2010 13:21 asdfTT123 wrote:On May 21 2010 13:18 roark wrote:
[quote]
Here is the flaw with your argument. If you buy a bunch of Overseers, you can't buy the Mutas. Zerg has to be super careful about their gas. 100g can go to either a Muta OR an Overseer but not both. In almost every PvZ I've played, the zerg always gets at least one overseer. WIth that overseer which was only originally used for changeling/scouting, you can now delay the P's colossi for basically no additional cost. I don't know about you, but I'd rather spend an extra 100-200 gas on another one or two overseers, keep them alive since they're pretty fast, and just corrupt the P's robo periodically. Good 200 gas well spent...don't care if it delays my spire. Hell, if I continue corrupting the robo, you won't NEED spire tech and you can safely go hydra to counter P's lack of colossi Oh ffs, kill the overseer, problem solved. Or make sure your robo bay isn't exposed to an easy contaminate hit... There are so many things you can do. Seriously you guys are complaining for nothing. Wait to see how it plays. You act like Blizzard didn't test out the patch internally. The overseer is a fast flying unit, if they want to contaminate your robo then they will be able to. You can only protect it if you surround it with your units a few matrix's away in each direction. I hear blink is a pretty useful ability. Yeah, because I have blink right after I expand, right? I don't prioritize a citadel and the blink upgrade over a robotics, support bay, thermal lance, and colossi. Overseers are units that all Zerg's make regardless, and they will come before I can do any thing reasonable to stop them from contaminating my building. The options are to either make high templar instead, or really focus on surrounding your robotics with your units so that it's very difficult to contaminate. Blink is stupid strong, dude. I don't see why you wouldn't get it early game, as that is when it is most effective... If you're rushing for a tier 3 unit (colossus) and prioritize it over increasing the usefulness of your tier 1 units, then thats the risk you take with getting contaminated. If you stick with mass stalker/sentry/zealot versus hydralisks you're going to get raped. You need colossus to deal with them, that is a fact. I have yet to see a single good Protoss prioritize getting charge or blink before getting colossus. 1800 platinum here, I can send you replays if you want. I don't get colossus until I have an expansion up (aound 60ish supply). Stalkers go toe to toe with hydras, especially with upgrades. Blink + charge zealots & sentries work wonders if you know how to use them. Gets a little more tricky when roaches are in play, but having a zerg get enough roaches + hydras to actually start to roll stalker / zealot / sentry takes a bit of time, at which point getting colossus is a priority. I just don't understand this mad rush for colossus... Huh? Until expansion is up? That is what every one does, who rushes a colossus off of one base? You expand, make a citadel, prioritize blink and charge, then start working on robotics tech? Your colossus work take forever to come out. Tier 1 units can only deal with hydralisk for a finite amount of time before you're going to start losing hard. Most Protoss' expand, check what the opponent is doing, and if it's hydralisk like normal, they start to get colossi and the upgrade.
I get blink before I expand, usually. Start the harassment, force the zerg to make things he doesn't want to, all the while I expand. If I see an opportunity I can abuse, I'll get charge quicker and put more pressure on. After twilight I'll switch it up to two robo bays with colossus if hes going heavy hydra + roach.
I'll admit, if the harassment doesn't go very well, I'll get colossi more quickly. Usually it doesn't fail, since stalker + blink is insanely mobile, even against zerg on creep.
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I think people are overreacting to Overseer change. How often were Corruptors used to crush anyone by shutting down production/researches? Overseers cost the same (minus Spire), have a weakened version of the spell, can't do anything to units that are in play and can't morph to Brood Lords.
I'm sure it'll get played around with a lot at first, occassionally a game or two will crop up with some super sweet Overseer magic action. The whole "ah man, corruption and infested terrans...gg man, gg" though, come on 
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On May 21 2010 14:05 xnub wrote:
So do you think that FF will take Friendly fire massive walk overs ? Colos walkign over your own FF and killing them ? or ally ultras or thors
I would imagine you could use your own colossi to break your own force fields, since they currently don't seem to really be owned by you, they are just neutral terrain changes kind of... I guess you just would have to be careful about what you are doing with your colossi lol... Probably in 2v2 your partner could break them too
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ALLEYCAT BLUES51080 Posts
On May 21 2010 14:05 xnub wrote:
So do you think that FF will take Friendly fire massive walk overs ? Colos walkign over your own FF and killing them ? or ally ultras or thors
if thats true it would be an unintended bug,which would be fixed immediately.
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On May 21 2010 14:06 junemermaid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2010 14:02 Salv wrote:On May 21 2010 13:58 junemermaid wrote:On May 21 2010 13:53 Salv wrote:On May 21 2010 13:51 junemermaid wrote:On May 21 2010 13:38 Salv wrote:On May 21 2010 13:35 junemermaid wrote:On May 21 2010 13:32 Salv wrote:On May 21 2010 13:30 junemermaid wrote:On May 21 2010 13:21 asdfTT123 wrote:
[quote]
In almost every PvZ I've played, the zerg always gets at least one overseer. WIth that overseer which was only originally used for changeling/scouting, you can now delay the P's colossi for basically no additional cost. I don't know about you, but I'd rather spend an extra 100-200 gas on another one or two overseers, keep them alive since they're pretty fast, and just corrupt the P's robo periodically. Good 200 gas well spent...don't care if it delays my spire. Hell, if I continue corrupting the robo, you won't NEED spire tech and you can safely go hydra to counter P's lack of colossi Oh ffs, kill the overseer, problem solved. Or make sure your robo bay isn't exposed to an easy contaminate hit... There are so many things you can do. Seriously you guys are complaining for nothing. Wait to see how it plays. You act like Blizzard didn't test out the patch internally. The overseer is a fast flying unit, if they want to contaminate your robo then they will be able to. You can only protect it if you surround it with your units a few matrix's away in each direction. I hear blink is a pretty useful ability. Yeah, because I have blink right after I expand, right? I don't prioritize a citadel and the blink upgrade over a robotics, support bay, thermal lance, and colossi. Overseers are units that all Zerg's make regardless, and they will come before I can do any thing reasonable to stop them from contaminating my building. The options are to either make high templar instead, or really focus on surrounding your robotics with your units so that it's very difficult to contaminate. Blink is stupid strong, dude. I don't see why you wouldn't get it early game, as that is when it is most effective... If you're rushing for a tier 3 unit (colossus) and prioritize it over increasing the usefulness of your tier 1 units, then thats the risk you take with getting contaminated. If you stick with mass stalker/sentry/zealot versus hydralisks you're going to get raped. You need colossus to deal with them, that is a fact. I have yet to see a single good Protoss prioritize getting charge or blink before getting colossus. 1800 platinum here, I can send you replays if you want. I don't get colossus until I have an expansion up (aound 60ish supply). Stalkers go toe to toe with hydras, especially with upgrades. Blink + charge zealots & sentries work wonders if you know how to use them. Gets a little more tricky when roaches are in play, but having a zerg get enough roaches + hydras to actually start to roll stalker / zealot / sentry takes a bit of time, at which point getting colossus is a priority. I just don't understand this mad rush for colossus... Huh? Until expansion is up? That is what every one does, who rushes a colossus off of one base? You expand, make a citadel, prioritize blink and charge, then start working on robotics tech? Your colossus work take forever to come out. Tier 1 units can only deal with hydralisk for a finite amount of time before you're going to start losing hard. Most Protoss' expand, check what the opponent is doing, and if it's hydralisk like normal, they start to get colossi and the upgrade. I get blink before I expand, usually. Start the harassment, force the zerg to make things he doesn't want to, all the while I expand. If I see an opportunity I can abuse, I'll get charge quicker and put more pressure on. After twilight I'll switch it up to two robo bays with colossus if hes going heavy hydra + roach. I'll admit, if the harassment doesn't go very well, I'll get colossi more quickly. Usually it doesn't fail, since stalker + blink is insanely mobile, even against zerg on creep.
OK wait, you're making a citadel and upgrading blink before expanding? How late is your expansion? I don't see how you can put on any pressure with this build. The problem with PvZ expanding is that if you do so with out putting on any pressure they will whore drones and quickly outmacro you. If you're teching this much off of one base you're either:
-Expanding really late
-Have like one gateway and few units
Both of which sound very bad. That will mean the Zerg will have had his expansion up for a long time before you. How much harassment can you honestly do versus a good Zerg with stalkers? This entire strategy sounds very sketchy.
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EPT
