EPTBasically, the Ultralisk by itself is still a terrible unit. It's actually even worse now that it has less HP. Frenzy helps the most in ZvZ, but really doesn't do anything in ZvT or ZvP.
What are you doing Blizzard?
Patch 13 Discussion - Page 23
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SnakeChomp
Canada125 Posts
Basically, the Ultralisk by itself is still a terrible unit. It's actually even worse now that it has less HP. Frenzy helps the most in ZvZ, but really doesn't do anything in ZvT or ZvP. What are you doing Blizzard? | ||
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roark
United States187 Posts
On May 21 2010 13:47 iggyfisk wrote: I can tell. It halts production. See if it meant you could only target non-production structures, it doesn't specify anywhere what effect it would have on them. The effect is halting production. Good call. I'm gonna' go with you on that one. | ||
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DrivE
United States2554 Posts
On May 21 2010 13:36 Assault_1 wrote: # Targets a single enemy structure which cannot train units or research upgrades for 30 seconds. what happens when u use it on a hatchery?? GOOD QUESTION! we'll see what happens ;D | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
ZvZ ling/baneling -> Overseer -> Stop hatchery production anyone? | ||
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allowicious
United States972 Posts
Yes, marauders can kill an ultra quicker, but it's not as big of a deal as everyone is making it out to be. A 600hp ultra with frenzy and the armored damage buff would be ridiculous. Before, the concussive shells made it much more difficult for the ultra to get near the marauders. The ultras were pretty much giant boulders sitting in the middle of a battle, unable to move due to the mass of concussive shells. With frenzy, the ultras can close in on marauders quicker, without the effect of being stunned the whole time. Well, then you argue that marauders can still kite and focus fire down an ultra due quicker to its the decreased hp. Yes that is true, but you will rarely have a scenario where you are fighting pure ultra vs pure marauder. A well mixed zerg army with 4-5 ultras can easily kill a terran bio blob. The ultras are still damage soakers; they just can't soak up as much damage as before. The marauders can maybe focus fire down 2 ultras before they close in, but you still have 2 ultras left that will rip apart the marauders. Plus you have all your other z units swarming in. Even if only 1 ultra survives, a few swipes at the marauders could be a huge battle changer. Splash damage + frenzy + insane damage vs armored units? The remaining z units can come in and clean up. You can also argue that it takes a long time to get to ultras, and they are a huge resource investment in terms of upgrades and unit cost. Yea, but it was the same issue in bw also. They are a late game unit for a reason. If you wanted ultras to be effective in bw, you needed to invest in hive + ultra den + speed upgrade + ultra armor upgrade + evo chamber armor upgrade. They are late game tech/expensive for a reason. Also, stop jumping on the race bandwagon. "ZOMg terran is OP. time to switch to t!" Man up and stick with a race. It's ok to switch races, but don't switch solely based on the fact that you can't figure out a way to win with your old race. Buffs and nerfs will come to all races with time; terran will be nerfed eventually, and protoss will be buffed. The game hasn't even been released yet. Many more patches are on the way. Stop acting like this is the final version, and that no more changes will be made. | ||
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Xinliben
United States931 Posts
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jusayO
Canada60 Posts
Maybe I go back to zerg though, changes look interestingly fun. ^^;; | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 21 2010 13:44 lebalebaleba wrote: lol protoss doesnt exist anymore in sc2.. gl my protoss brothers hopefully they will buff the least used race in top2000 rating. as if we didnt get ran over by a bunch of shit already... such a joke of a patch. Because a minor nerf to void rays and a buff to units that never saw play in those matchups anyway (prior to this patch, Thors were uncommon in TvP, and no one used Ultras, period) makes protoss "not exist". On May 21 2010 13:50 allowicious wrote: Yes, marauders can kill an ultra quicker, but it's not as big of a deal as everyone is making it out to be. A 600hp ultra with frenzy and the armored damage buff would be ridiculous. Before, the concussive shells made it much more difficult for the ultra to get near the marauders. The ultras were pretty much giant boulders sitting in the middle of a battle, unable to move due to the mass of concussive shells. With frenzy, the ultras can close in on marauders quicker, without the effect of being stunned the whole time. Well, then you argue that marauders can still kite and focus fire down an ultra due quicker to its the decreased hp. Yes that is true, but you will rarely have a scenario where you are fighting pure ultra vs pure marauder. A well mixed zerg army with 4-5 ultras can easily kill a terran bio blob. The ultras are still damage soakers; they just can't soak up as much damage as before. The marauders can maybe focus fire down 2 ultras before they close in, but you still have 2 ultras left that will rip apart the marauders. Plus you have all your other z units swarming in. Even if only 1 ultra survives, a few swipes at the marauders could be a huge battle changer. Splash damage + frenzy + insane damage vs armored units? The remaining z units can come in and clean up. Ultras are massive. They were always immune to Concussive Shells. I'm surprised people still didn't know this. | ||
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NeoScout
United States103 Posts
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junemermaid
United States981 Posts
On May 21 2010 13:38 Salv wrote: Yeah, because I have blink right after I expand, right? I don't prioritize a citadel and the blink upgrade over a robotics, support bay, thermal lance, and colossi. Overseers are units that all Zerg's make regardless, and they will come before I can do any thing reasonable to stop them from contaminating my building. The options are to either make high templar instead, or really focus on surrounding your robotics with your units so that it's very difficult to contaminate. Blink is stupid strong, dude. I don't see why you wouldn't get it early game, as that is when it is most effective... If you're rushing for a tier 3 unit (colossus) and prioritize it over increasing the usefulness of your tier 1 units, then thats the risk you take with getting contaminated. | ||
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lunar3force
78 Posts
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BLinD-RawR
ALLEYCAT BLUES50119 Posts
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Iron_
United States389 Posts
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nihlon
Sweden5581 Posts
On May 21 2010 13:51 NeoScout wrote: so the infestor doesn't actually infest anything or the corruptor corrupts :/ NP? The corruptor you got a point with though. | ||
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Salv
Canada3083 Posts
On May 21 2010 13:51 junemermaid wrote: Blink is stupid strong, dude. I don't see why you wouldn't get it early game, as that is when it is most effective... If you're rushing for a tier 3 unit (colossus) and prioritize it over increasing the usefulness of your tier 1 units, then thats the risk you take with getting contaminated. If you stick with mass stalker/sentry/zealot versus hydralisks you're going to get raped. You need colossus to deal with them, that is a fact. I have yet to see a single good Protoss prioritize getting charge or blink before getting colossus. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1437 Posts
Terran changes are good, you had to spend way too much to upgrade previous to make marines worth it, however i think reducing the cost on both researches might lead to marines being a bit imba early. Only time will tell though. I like the zerg spell changes V. V. much, I'm wondering if the infested terran spell still needs the egg morphing thing. It should need it otherwise there could be some really abusive play. It's still abusive anyways, but atleast with eggs morphing it will give other people time to respond to reduce damage or something. Ultras are now even more worthless then before. Sure they can go through a forcefield, if they can even make it to the forcefield. They will still take bonus damage from pretty much everything and splat before getting in range to do any damage. I'm on the fence about the damage change. Honestly, I dont know how much difference it will make since I doubt ultras will be doing any damage anyways, but i think that 25+15 would be better then 15+25. I'm curious as to how splash works in regards to bonus damage to armored. Does bonus damage apply to splash? .If it splashes an armored unit, does it do the full +25 or +25/range modifier? Zealots are light, and they screen all protoss armies. Ultras might be able to get through the forcefield, but they wont be able to get to any of the armored units it is supposed to counter. Same vs maruder / tank / thor. 450 hp just is not enough to get it to an opponents ball of units. Perhaps frenzy would be better off not giving a damage buff, but rather an armor buff. // ffs, why always hotkey changes for zerg? Atleast it was only a rally point that you can just click to change this time. Zerg is unquestionably the hardest mechanical race now though, with frenzy and having a decent skill for overseers to use. | ||
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Rintrah
United States25 Posts
On May 21 2010 13:51 BLinD-RawR wrote: The game isn't patching though,US version.........by that I mean its just starting the game at patch 12 and not running the patcher at all. Because the patch isn't out yet. | ||
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PoD
Canada45 Posts
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BlasiuS
United States2405 Posts
Why did they just rename all of the leagues o_O And the ultralisk =/ I was hoping this patch would address some of the core problems. It didn't really: -ultra still require over 1000 gas in upgrades before they become worthwhile to have. Add to that the gas required for hive + ultra cavern, and it's just not worth it, especially when you have the broodlord available at hive. -ultra's size is still too big. Yes they can trample over force fields, but they still have size + pathing issues, especially when zerglings quickly auto-surround and don't give ultra a chance to attack. -ultra still hard-countered way too easily considering cost. Maraduers/Thor/Void Ray/Carrier/BC/Immortal all still counter ultra very easily. Now with infestor, the thor cannot counter them as easily, but as of patch 12 mech is the dominant strategy against zerg, and ultra got severely nerfed against mech (specifically talking about tanks here)  | ||
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Tachion
Canada8573 Posts
Compare how hard it is to get Ultras with how easy it is to get to colossus and thors. There is really a huge gap there in availability of the massive unit. For starters you have to make an infestation pit to get to hive. I mean that's not terrible, Infestors are certainly not bad units, but they force you to make the pit anyway even if you didn't want the units at all, seems really...sloppy. Then you have to upgrade to hive. That's 2.5 minutes, 350 minerals and 200 gas just to be able to build a freakin ultralisk den. For Protoss, if you want a colossus, build a twilight council then a templar archives and THEN you can build your robo bay to make colossus. It doesn't matter that you don't want high templar, you still have to make it anyway. Or hey build your factory, then to get thors you have to build a ghost academy, not that you ever planned on using ghosts. Then build a fusion core, THEN build your armory and after that you can finally make thors. There just doesn't seem to be consistent behavior between z and p/t when obtaining their respective massive unit. I see that as a bigger discrepancy than the effectiveness of the units themselves. | ||
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