EPTAccidents, GunZ: The Duel, and StarCraft II - Page 8
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Fizban140
Korea (South)129 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On May 11 2010 13:46 Fizban140 wrote: A higher APM player will always have an advantage. There is just so much to do in this game if a player with a higher APM actually makes use of their clicks they can beat a lower APM player who isn't making as many useful actions. You can still position units in a fight, target fire, go back to your base and sim city and maybe even micro a harass on their mineral line. If you can do all that at the same time with perfect control, congratulations you have the highest APM in the world. I'm gonna disagree on alot of things here and ima try to make a point for each This idk its just wrong, or else youd see players (for example) such as nada beating savior always as he has a 200+ apm advantage. in sc2 atleast i have about 60 apm and im 1550~ plat right now, most players i play are 90++ yet im sitting at a 98-70? or so record because everything is sooooo much easier. Lastly, with the new macro mechanics i believe just about everyone can do this, id say being able to harass and fight at the same time is the only real exception to this.. | ||
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PROJECTILE
United States226 Posts
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Fizban140
Korea (South)129 Posts
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GX.Sigma
United States49 Posts
On May 10 2010 01:11 Asta wrote: Having very few (or better, one) player dominate like that is always a sign of a great game I do not understand this logic. | ||
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zak
Korea (South)1009 Posts
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Fizban140
Korea (South)129 Posts
On May 11 2010 14:52 zak wrote: like others said I am worried about this Blob Vs Blob feature in SC2. Microing was really dumbed down. but an arc is better than a blob, so there is still micro. | ||
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G3nXsiS
United States656 Posts
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DminusTerran
Canada1337 Posts
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T0fuuu
Australia2275 Posts
just looking at the vid and the comments that game is broken for competitive play. Sure it take skill but its only 1 skill, the game doesnt seem to have balanced maps like quake, or any direction in the maps (just wide halls and open area?) the game has horrible netcode and from what i see is entirely hitscan or melee, which makes it a game of who has the better ping in the end. I dont see any sixth sense control over multiple item spawns, or players taking a positional or tactical advantage, or even any grace in moving around the map. all are things you would see in any worthy ql tourney finals. This game should have died off with the 500 ppl that still play it a long time ago. the only conclusion i can come up with is that you think sc2 will be bad cos it wont play like some silly 1 trick exploit game. | ||
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Paperscraps
United States639 Posts
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Ryhn
United States509 Posts
On May 11 2010 00:57 FieryBalrog wrote: While I like the glitches in Starcraft BW, not a single one was really game-changing except muta stacking, and that's not even really a glitch, just a feature of how the game groups units. A lot of glitches DID get fixed in BW because they were gamebreaking (flying drones, infinite minerals...). BW would have still been a fantastic game and not nearly much different if you removed Dragoon stupidity (so attack move worked just as well), or allowed vultures to moving shot with attack command instead of patrol command, or didn't allow probes and scvs to jump over minerals. Also, this is a perfect example of a community not knowing much about making a great game, yet having massive confidence in their own opinions. You see it in every game with an old, "hardcore" fanbase. I was listening to the Idle Thumbs podcast and Jake Rodkin, who's a game designer of adventure games, made this point brilliantly. That feedback (whether on the forums or whatever) from the dedicated community is usually a symptom. When the community complains about something and suggests some fix (usually the most unimaginative fix that panders directly to them), the game designer should treat this suggested fix as a symptom to be solved, not a cure to be implemented. In other words the community is good at knowing something is wrong, but its terrible at fixing it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wait, wait wait. While I see where you're coming from, the way of thinking you purport is harmful. As an aspiring game designer, reading that hurt a little bit. You just took Jake Rodkin's words and bent them to your convenience - to the extent of implying that it is best to ignore your community beyond their initial raising of a flag. Communities are often powerful, wonderfully creative, and unique entities that can and will expand the life of your game. When provided with a creation kit or modding tool, community members will try their ideas for you, and easily cull the greats from the flops. - Their input is not decidedly terrible, just woefully untested. Starcraft 2 is unlikely to be the most amazing RTS on release day, but the Galaxy Editor gives me reason for hope. If Blizzard doesn't get it right, eventually the community will - and if we're lucky, Blizzard will pay attention to these mods while assembling The Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void. | ||
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DaEm0niCuS
United States60 Posts
The game needs to be designed around expert play, and high skill/speed. Not around making it easier for newbs. | ||
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roronoe
Canada1527 Posts
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h4xh4xh4x
Canada90 Posts
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keV.
United States3214 Posts
Being good at GunZ is like being good at TF2, no one cares. It is a collection of casual shooter players who like to pub and nothing more. Oh that was mean... But it felt good. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On May 11 2010 09:57 Tundera wrote: I dont really agree.. If you havent played gunz (i have for 5 years now), you wouldnt know the type of community the game has, or that its really just a one trick pony. You exploit game mechanics to cancel your moves so you can move into other moves faster. Example: Reload Shot. If you have 2 shotguns on, you shoot one, hit reload, switch to the other gun, and it will shoot as if it has no cooldown. The community is awful (im not excluded in this :3) Its like..I'd call it the mexican drug cartel ghetto of the internet. On the "pro" forums, a post could be described as this Random1: LOL I BEAT THIS GUY, I ONLY WON 11-9 BUT I FREAKIN TRASHED HIM HES SO BAD I WIN DEMOLSIHED EZ *screenshot* random 2: posts 1248 screenshots of beating poster 1 etcetera. Games that rely on exploitation, while seemingly cool at the start, really show their true colors when the game starts dying and theres only about 200 people online average, which is what gunz has turned into. This post warrants at least some attention. I'm not sure how the implications play out with regard to the OP's point, but I think it's a bit foolish to disregard it. | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
- SCBW: Mutastacking - Do I need to say more? - Super Smash Brothers Melee: Dash-Dancing, Dash-cancelling, chain-throws, short-hop-dash-cancelling, dashgrabbing etc. All stuff that wasn't in the game intentionally but made it such a great and demanding game. - Tekken: wavedashing and stuff related to that. - WC3: Possibility to switch Items with cooldowns to other heroes to use them again right away. zeppelin-bug where you could staff the zeppelin and instantly pick up the hero himself to staff it back with the zeppelin. "AI-Bugs" that could be abused with fast creeping with Trees etc., Also, killing own Units to deny getting XP etc - who knows what was actually planned of all that stuff? - Diablo2: Possilibility to get rushed through the game - I highly doubt that was intentionally, but it allowed for stuff like low-level-Duels with chars that completed the game and got all the additional skillpoints n stuff, but are only like lvl 10 or 15 etc. That's all stuff I kinda miss in SC2 atm and with the Engine being so incredibly awesome, I don't really know how much of that stuff is gonna be discovered, but I hope we'll find stuff that's comparable to Mutamicro in SCBW, whit what I mean: Demanding but highly rewarding Tricks you can pull off! | ||
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goszar
Belarus119 Posts
When you play chess, do you try to steal a piece from the board when your opponent doesn't watch? Foe me Starcraft (and even SC2) is deep and complex enough to not require any bugs. What's the difference between vulture's "lay mine" pathing bug and invulnerable drone? Both shouldn't be possible according to overall game rules? and Boxer using first one cheats as bad as some noob who doesn't know any other strat than second one. | ||
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skipgamer
Australia701 Posts
If Blizzard intentionally created mechanics to be exploited (whose to say they haven't btw), then advertised them and said "here, try this", that would be a lot lot worse than what they are doing now, ie making a solid game. The game is still young, there is so much yet to be discovered, considering the amount of tourny's that are being played, and the popularity of the beta, I have no doubt, absolutely none that Blizzard have what it takes to make a great game. At the moment a casual player can pick it up, spend a few days learning and end up somewhere mid silver to gold... Do you think anybody would do that if they had to spend weeks mastering a micro trick? The barrier to entry was incredibly high for Starcraft... Blizzard needed to lower that, and they have for Starcraft 2... Whether it raises or not during its lifespan is yet to be seen, but at the moment, its great the amount of new players that are being drawn into the game, watching tournaments, trying to learn and get better, and it only means good things for gaming as a whole. (i am one of these people by the way, and if I had to learn skills that were relevant to sc1 to be even midly competitive in sc2... Then I might as well go and play sc1.) Bottom line, comparing any game that is Really late in it's lifespan to a 3 month old game is absolutely ridiculous. | ||
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