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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On April 23 2010 20:15 iounas wrote: Bug is something that is not intentional.. This is intentional behavior but unintentional strategy from it. no, the intended behavior was being able to cancel a building unit without losing the larva, not to trick hatcheries into holding extra larva. the hatchery still stops producing a new larva when it has 3 idle. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On April 23 2010 20:09 Casta wrote: Now this larvae bug is clearly op and will no doubt get fixed somehow, but I liked blizzards intention of making zerg able to cancel units without cost just as the other races. Zerg unit production is very different from Protoss and Terran unit production. It was perfectly fine that you can't get larvae back, you get 1 larva every 15 seconds. Zerg doesn't need different unit production facilities for different units, but at least the larva loss made switches a LITTLE harder. You couldn't start your mutas, see turrets and then decide to just make hydras. Now you can. It doesn't make zerg more fun, it only makes zerg stronger and easier (no planning required). To balance the game around this nonsense would be insane, basically every unit and building would need adjustments. On April 23 2010 20:17 IdrA wrote: no, the intended behavior was being able to cancel a building unit without losing the larva, not to trick hatcheries into holding extra larva. the hatchery still stops producing a new larva when it has 3 idle. It wasn't directly intended, but neiter is it a bug. It wasn't hard to predict that this would happen given the rest of the game mechanics. | ||
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Casta
Denmark234 Posts
On April 23 2010 20:18 spinesheath wrote: Zerg unit production is very different from Protoss and Terran unit production. It was perfectly fine that you can't get larvae back, you get 1 larva every 15 seconds. Zerg doesn't need different unit production facilities for different units, but at least the larva loss made switches a LITTLE harder. You couldn't start your mutas, see turrets and then decide to just make hydras. Now you can. It doesn't make zerg more fun, it only makes zerg stronger and easier (no planning required). To balance the game around this nonsense would be insane, basically every unit and building would need adjustments. While zerg don't need additional production facilities they do need the tech, fx. both hydra den and spire to do what you just said. I can't see a big problem with zerg getting the larvaes refunded if it wasn't exploitable. Zergs production capabilities have both ups and downsides to it, especially when expanding.. it can be a huge risk to use all larvaes on drones for the expo when suddenly units come knocking at your door. At least I would find it worth to test before dropping the idea entirely. | ||
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Stropheum
United States1124 Posts
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Niji87
United States112 Posts
Hahaha. Anyway, I think it's a good concept to apply, but it definitely seems like they went about it the wrong way. I'm sure Blizzard will think of some way to maintain the mechanic without allowing excessive unit production. They seem to enjoy adjusting creation times, so I'll just assume they're gonna increase the larvae spawn time by 1 second or something, which would make abusing this mechanic a bit harder early on. I doubt they'll ever accomplish a proper fix that still maintains the mechanic, though. | ||
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virusak
Czech Republic344 Posts
On April 23 2010 19:56 Taco-Mental wrote: A guy tried this vs me on scrap station, before I even knew it was possible. He picked off my scouting probe and i was like WTF thats a lot of zerglings fast. Luckily i went forge first, spawned 2 canons and walled off except a narrow gap which i filled with workers and plugged the gap with hold fire till the canons came online. Then i totally walled off and went dual starport and raped him with mass zealots & phoenix's (as i knew his econ had to be screwed with such a lack of drones. then his timig was completely off, you can not have even a single cannon ready when he times it right | ||
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cartoon]x
United States606 Posts
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On April 23 2010 20:34 Casta wrote: While zerg don't need additional production facilities they do need the tech, fx. both hydra den and spire to do what you just said. I can't see a big problem with zerg getting the larvaes refunded if it wasn't exploitable. Zergs production capabilities have both ups and downsides to it, especially when expanding.. it can be a huge risk to use all larvaes on drones for the expo when suddenly units come knocking at your door. At least I would find it worth to test before dropping the idea entirely. At 1 Hatch 1 Queen, zerg gets 1 larva every ~7 seconds. If a terran decides to go banshees he has to get a LOT of starports to be able to pump 1 banshee every 7 seconds. If a zerg decides to make mutas, he has to build 1 spire to pump 1 muta every 7 seconds. And now if the zerg sees that he better shouldn't make mutas he just cancels them and the whole thing only cost him a spire. If the terran sees that air isn't going to work he has spent a lot of money on Starports. It indeed was risky to spend all your larvae on drones. But now it is much less so because you can just cancel the 5-10 drones you have morphing currently and make combat units instead. | ||
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
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Odge
Sweden84 Posts
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Artisan
United States336 Posts
Edit: jking this really needs to be fixed | ||
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Nytefish
United Kingdom4282 Posts
On April 23 2010 20:17 IdrA wrote: no, the intended behavior was being able to cancel a building unit without losing the larva, not to trick hatcheries into holding extra larva. the hatchery still stops producing a new larva when it has 3 idle. I don't think people agree on what they mean when they talk about bugs. For example following your definition manner pylons in BW are a bug but not many people would refer to it as such. | ||
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Crisium
United States1618 Posts
Not to mention the superior Zergling rush now. When was this ever an issue? I really cannot come to terms with why this decision was made. I have never seen such a display of recklessness in balancing as this decision. They can cancel for free? Not even free when you consider the Zergling rush - Zerg cancel for profit. Wow, really, this is bad. No one in their right mind has ever asked for this. Our faith can be restored if this is immediately patched. Let's hope. | ||
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Mecha71
United States59 Posts
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
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mynameisbean
Australia82 Posts
But how sure are you guys that Blizzard didn't intend this? There have been a fair few complaints about zerg vs other races, from what I've read.. ? | ||
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StarcraftMan
Canada507 Posts
On April 23 2010 22:07 mynameisbean wrote: I dont have the beta, so I dont have any authority in asking or saying anything at all. But how sure are you guys that Blizzard didn't intend this? There have been a fair few complaints about zerg vs other races, from what I've read.. ? Have you thought of 2vs2? What if there are 2 zerg players against 2 protoss players? That's an automatic win everytime if the zerg players use this bug to produce 20 zerglings in 1:55 minutes to rush the same protoss player. | ||
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Elegy
United States1629 Posts
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Woija
Denmark61 Posts
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Mecha71
United States59 Posts
On April 23 2010 22:13 Elegy wrote: lol I love how HDStarcraft, in his infinite wisdom, made a fucking tutorial video on how to abuse this................. Great thing actually, the faster this is brought to light, the faster the casuals can get to flaming the battle.net boards and we get a faster hotfix :D | ||
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