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On April 23 2010 03:05 Floophead_III wrote:
Orb vs Morrow BO5 showmatch incoming.
Seriously, kids. SC2 is such a complex game that you can't accurately portray on paper what happens in game.
Orb will constantly whine about how imbalanced terran is because he doesn't play protoss aggressive and allin, which is where you see P > T.
That's my point, T>P unless you all in every damn game.
You shouldn't have to all in rush every single game to win, macro should be an option. A race is imbalanced if it wins every single time you ever let it get to the midgame/lategame
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For the record, comparing force field to dark swarm is lul worthy on just so many levels that it's just plain retarded. I don't think I even have to list all the reasons for people to realize that. You're basically saying a tier 3 spell is as game breaking as a tier 2 mid game spell. That should tell you how crazy over powered it is right there in itself.
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On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over
My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image.
DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on.
Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get.
Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries.
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On April 23 2010 03:10 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:05 Floophead_III wrote:
Orb vs Morrow BO5 showmatch incoming.
Seriously, kids. SC2 is such a complex game that you can't accurately portray on paper what happens in game.
Orb will constantly whine about how imbalanced terran is because he doesn't play protoss aggressive and allin, which is where you see P > T. That's my point, T>P unless you all in every damn game. You shouldn't have to all in rush every single game to win, macro should be an option. A race is imbalanced if it wins every single time you ever let it get to the midgame/lategame
so orb u think nerf on marauder and sentry is a good idea?
im talking about like a -15 hp on marauder and maybe a little lower dmg or so and on sentry +25 energy on the force field
obviously this would probably not fix balance at all but i just want unit diversity and strategy to grow wider than MY MARAUDER ARMY VS UR 20 FORCE FIELDS FUN FUN
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On April 23 2010 03:09 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:05 Thamoo wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 -orb- wrote:
Yes it's stupid to compare one unit like marines to zealots, but when protoss literally don't have a single fucking unit that beats marauders at any even remotely reasonable level of cost efficiency there's clearly something wrong with the game. Both immortals and zealots does decently against marauders actually. (Except in low numbers if the marauders have their shell upgrade.) Please show me a high level game where zealots do anything versus marauders. The terran has to be afk for zealots to be remotely useful vs marauders
according to you, they just attack move, so just run your zealots and kill them... j/k... obviously not what you are trying to say, but that's not a very useful arguement.
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On April 23 2010 03:12 NightOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image. DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on. Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get. Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries.
Lol no evidence of blizzard listening more to casuals than high level players?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
you just completely nullified your entire post
you clearly have never heard of this game called wow
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WoW is designed for casuals, Orb.
It is also a completely different team.
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On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:12 NightOne wrote:On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image. DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on. Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get. Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries. Lol no evidence of blizzard listening more to casuals than high level players? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you just completely nullified your entire post you clearly have never heard of this game called wow
Also, remember that storm nerf? Essentially 99.9% of the reason why it was nerfed was people screaming imba on the Bnet forums. You can do a search on TL forums and you'll find probably not find any good threads trying to argue it was imba pre-nerf.
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On April 23 2010 03:14 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:10 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 03:05 Floophead_III wrote:
Orb vs Morrow BO5 showmatch incoming.
Seriously, kids. SC2 is such a complex game that you can't accurately portray on paper what happens in game.
Orb will constantly whine about how imbalanced terran is because he doesn't play protoss aggressive and allin, which is where you see P > T. That's my point, T>P unless you all in every damn game. You shouldn't have to all in rush every single game to win, macro should be an option. A race is imbalanced if it wins every single time you ever let it get to the midgame/lategame so orb u think nerf on marauder and sentry is a good idea? im talking about like a -15 hp on marauder and maybe a little lower dmg or so and on sentry +25 energy on the force field obviously this would probably not fix balance at all but i just want unit diversity and strategy to grow wider than MY MARAUDER ARMY VS UR 20 FORCE FIELDS FUN FUN
I'd much prefer having force fields be killable (not auto-targeted tho, otherwise it would ruin it) if they absolutely had to be nerfed rather than 100% anally fucking protoss early game with an energy nerf
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On April 23 2010 03:16 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 03:12 NightOne wrote:On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image. DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on. Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get. Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries. Lol no evidence of blizzard listening more to casuals than high level players? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you just completely nullified your entire post you clearly have never heard of this game called wow Also, remember that storm nerf? Essentially 99.9% of the reason why it was nerfed was people screaming imba on the Bnet forums. You can do a search on TL forums and you'll find probably not find any good threads trying to argue it was imba pre-nerf.
yep, this
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On April 23 2010 03:10 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:05 Floophead_III wrote:
Orb vs Morrow BO5 showmatch incoming.
Seriously, kids. SC2 is such a complex game that you can't accurately portray on paper what happens in game.
Orb will constantly whine about how imbalanced terran is because he doesn't play protoss aggressive and allin, which is where you see P > T. That's my point, T>P unless you all in every damn game. You shouldn't have to all in rush every single game to win, macro should be an option. A race is imbalanced if it wins every single time you ever let it get to the midgame/lategame
I wouldn't say T>P outside of allins. I do agree that marauders themselves are too lucrative though, in ANY matchup.
Currently the way TvP works is because of the lack of concussive shells terran can't be super aggressive early without going allin. Protoss can be super aggressive early because they have map control to eco/tech quite easily. There's this timing window between where protoss has full saturation and 3-4 warpgates and terran still is beefing their economy on 1 base and has almost no units. That's where the protoss allins hit. It's a consequence of chronoboost. It'd be fine except that terran can't respond like they do in BW by simply sitting on their ass with tanks because immortals are out so fast. Hence, they have to get ghosts too, but if they get ghosts they're weak vs a 4 warpgate, so they need some other units (marines/marauders, probably in bunkers). And then you have drop play, so they need turrets. Terran who doesn't cover all these possibilities is taking a risk. Protoss on the other hand just has to make a shitton of something and they probably can win right there.
As a note, the build I used vs you the last time we played is what I believe to be the only viable FE opening.
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Yeah and the roach burrow move speed nerf, no one was complaining about that here afaik but maybe they were on battle.net forums?
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id prefer sentries costing 75/100 and adding an upgrade that gives sentries 75 energy to start. doesnt really screw up the FF early game and solves the problem of protoss spamming sentries if their gas gets too high, meaning protoss have to find more creative ways to use up their gas.
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On April 23 2010 03:10 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:05 Floophead_III wrote:
Orb vs Morrow BO5 showmatch incoming.
Seriously, kids. SC2 is such a complex game that you can't accurately portray on paper what happens in game.
Orb will constantly whine about how imbalanced terran is because he doesn't play protoss aggressive and allin, which is where you see P > T. That's my point, T>P unless you all in every damn game. You shouldn't have to all in rush every single game to win, macro should be an option. A race is imbalanced if it wins every single time you ever let it get to the midgame/lategame
no you just sit in base making nothing when others exp and outmacro you ( like in game vs Floophead_III)
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On April 23 2010 03:16 -orb- wrote:
I'd much prefer having force fields be killable (not auto-targeted tho, otherwise it would ruin it) if they absolutely had to be nerfed rather than 100% anally fucking protoss early game with an energy nerf
So you have the same opinion as the majority of the people here, interesting... Remimber how this contest was to predict blizzard's changes? Not to argue on what you would personally change?
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On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:12 NightOne wrote:On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image. DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on. Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get. Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries. Lol no evidence of blizzard listening more to casuals than high level players? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you just completely nullified your entire post you clearly have never heard of this game called wow
Last time I checked, WOW wasn't as competetive as RTS games, or do you somehow have that mentality stuck in your head that if you reach Level 80 shaman you'll be #1 too?
Its very cute that you try and disregard my entire post based on that. Since thats the case, you obviously aren't listening and trying to convince you to manner up and respect other people is a waste of my time. I'll just let you keep trolling noobs who don't know better since you feel good about that, must feel like a man. Have fun.
PS: The poster about statistical analysis and other BS on your daily show is a complete contradictory to any evidence or constructive criticism / support for any hypothesese you came up with in this very thread.
Good Luck.
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I can almost guarantee you floophead that chrono boost is not going to give protoss a better economy than MULEs...
In fact that'd be an interesting thing to try. Have a protoss just build pylons and probes and use every chrono on probes to full saturation and have the terran just get the orbital command with the standard 15oc build and use every 50 energy on mules and see who's getting more money.
I feel like this would be what they balanced it towards (like what else?), but would still be interesting to see because while logically they should be even my gut tells me due to the sheer amount the mule mines and the fact that it lets other scvs mine the same node at hte same time that the terran would have a better economy.
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Yeah even as a Terran player I feel that marauders are too strong. I don't think making them harder to get or whatnot is the solution though. A slight HP/damage nerf, or take away stim or something.
Terran armies composed entirely of marauders should not work! T_T;
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On April 23 2010 03:20 -orb- wrote:
I can almost guarantee you floophead that chrono boost is not going to give protoss a better economy than MULEs...
In fact that'd be an interesting thing to try. Have a protoss just build pylons and probes and use every chrono on probes to full saturation and have the terran just get the orbital command with the standard 15oc build and use every 50 energy on mules and see who's getting more money.
I feel like this would be what they balanced it towards (like what else?), but would still be interesting to see because while logically they should be even my gut tells me due to the sheer amount the mule mines and the fact that it lets other scvs mine the same node at hte same time that the terran would have a better economy.
I think someone tried this before and they found that Protoss has a better economy for a short window of time (which is where the immortal all-inish push comes from) but after that window, Terran starts to pull ahead by a HUGE amount.
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On April 23 2010 03:20 NightOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 03:12 NightOne wrote:On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image. DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on. Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get. Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries. Lol no evidence of blizzard listening more to casuals than high level players? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you just completely nullified your entire post you clearly have never heard of this game called wow Last time I checked, WOW wasn't as competetive as RTS games, or do you somehow have that mentality stuck in your head that if you reach Level 80 shaman you'll be #1 too? Its very cute that you try and disregard my entire post based on that. Since thats the case, you obviously aren't listening and trying to convince you to manner up and respect other people is a waste of my time. I'll just let you keep trolling noobs who don't know better since you feel good about that, must feel like a man. Have fun. PS: The poster about statistical analysis and other BS on your daily show is a complete contradictory to any evidence or constructive criticism / support for any hypothesese you came up with in this very thread. Good Luck.
You clearly don't play wow or know anything at all about wow.
There is a core community in wow that is competitive in PvP in arenas and blizzard doesn't give a flying fuck about them which is why it's been shrinking for ages. Blizzard caters to the casuals in every single opportunity and it can easily be seen if you knew anything at all about wow
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EPT
