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Contest Finished!
Ending time is 2:40 KST on April 22nd 2010. Any post after that time is not counted.
Well, the patch notes are released and I am fairly underwhelmed by the amount of balance changes but there are lots of content and map changes which are very cool. It should be fairly easy to figure out who called this one.
For a list of the original rules hit the spoiler link below:
+ Show Spoiler +Test your design/balance skills and see if you have what it takes to be a SC2 balancer. With the anticipation of the a new reset/patch on the horizon be the one to accurately guess up to 5 of the new balance changes that the patch will bring.
The winner gets my permission to do a victory dance, point at their monitor, and yell, "I called it, noobs!" as loud as they want. Perhaps other people could offer better prizes, but seriously, what's more awesome than that.
Rules:
1) List exactly 5 (no more no less) balance changes that the patch will bring.
2) It's OK to list closely related changes, such as ones that affect the attack of a single unit, under the same number.
3) Predictions should NOT be overly general.
Examples of general predictions:
1. Protoss is going to get nerfed.
2. Infestors are going to get a new spell.
3. Marauders are going to be easier to kill.
Examples of correctly specific predictions:
1. Phoenix are going to have their attack speed increased by 0.5 and their attack will now stun an enemy for 1 second.
2. All Terran and Zerg buildings are going to have their HP increased by 500 and All Protoss buildings are going to have their HP and Shields increased by 250.
3. A new upgrade will be added to the Infestor Pit which costs 100 minerals,100 gas, and 30 seconds to research which grants the Infestor the ability to eat any unit to gain 100 energy
4) The predictions must be balance changes to units or buildings and NOT bug fixes, map fixes or content updates.
5) Each person may only post once.
6) In the unlikely event of a tie the person who posted first wins.
The contest ends when the patch notes are posted on the SC2B forums and no submissions will accepted after the time of that post.
EDIT: Patch notes can be found here instead:
hhttp://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23240933862&postId=243993087677&sid=5010#9
I will personally go through every entry and judge a winner which I will post here after the competition is complete. That person will have bragging rights for at least a good hour after being declared the winner. Predictions will be judged not only on the amount of correct balance changes a person predicts but also their accuracy.
EDIT: If not one balance change is accurately predicted it's OK. You get credit for coming close. I'm enjoying reading the posts, serious and silly, keep it up and please respect other people's opinions. If you think someone's predictions are completely unfounded then try to do better. Remember it's all just for fun.
Good Luck!
The Final Results!
Immortal Build time increased by 15 seconds (40 seconds to 55 seconds)
Who predicted it exactly:
+ Show Spoiler +SichuanPanda, Ner0, nodule
Who predicted the increase but didn't get the exact time:
+ Show Spoiler +nedsat, whatupyo02, junemermaid, zazen, Zoltan, link0, DoomBacon, daywiss, summerloud, Knutzi, TBO, kavaron, flme, goszar
Concussive Shells research cost decreased by 50 minerals, 50 gas, and 20 seconds (100/100 and 80 seconds to 50/50 and 60 seconds)
Who predicted it exactly:
+ Show Spoiler +
Who predicted the cost decrease exactly but didn't get the exact time:
+ Show Spoiler +TheTuna, Madcatcf, Knutzi, Guy.Incognito, febreze, Jonoman92
Who predicted the time decrease exactly but didn't get the exact cost:
+ Show Spoiler +
Who predicted the decrease but didn't get the exact cost or time:
+ Show Spoiler +iounas, Archerofaiur, Zoltan, DrivE, CannonsNCarriers, DrSmoke, goszar, Paladia, WorkersOfTheWorld, tknq, fiGGedyFliP
Neural Parasite range increased by 2 (7 to 9)
Who predicted it exactly:
+ Show Spoiler +
Who predicted the increase but didn't get the exact range:
+ Show Spoiler +Thamoo, Shiladie, FabledIntegral, Smurfz, goszar
Queen's speed off creep decreased by 0.562 (1.5 to 0.938)
Who predicted it but didn't get the exact speed:
+ Show Spoiler +
No other balance changes were accurately predicted.
WINNER
+ Show Spoiler +goszar
Although the predictions were not exact, goszar predicted 3 balance changes correctly, which is more than any other poster. You may begin bragging.
1) Concussive Shells upgrade time and cost reduced.
2) Immortal build time increased
3) Neural Parasite range increased
RUNNER UP
+ Show Spoiler +onmach
Although only getting 2 predictions correct those predictions were 100% accurate.
1) marauder concussion grenades will end up 50/50 and cost only 60 seconds upgrade time.
4) neural parasite will have ranged increased from 7 to 9.
HONORABLE MENTIONS
+ Show Spoiler +Karma_
For being the only one who called the queen speed decrease off of the creep.
5. Queen speed decreased slightly when off creep
Trap
For a post with only 3 very vague and general predictions but coincidently being right on all accounts.
1. A Protoss unit will receive a slight nerf
2. A Terran unit of marginal use will be buffed but will remain unused
3. A Zerg unit's stats will be changed but nothing will change about how boring Zerg is
Thanks to everyone who participated! There were a lot of posts to go through so my sincerest apologies if I left anyone out.
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How do you know there will be 5 balance changes? How can you expect people to get changes exactly right?
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On April 21 2010 02:54 shmoo wrote:
Guy with 4 posts holds contest with no reward. I for one look forward to an excellent thread.
And you have six more posts?
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On April 21 2010 02:54 shmoo wrote:
Guy with 4 posts holds contest with no reward. I for one look forward to an excellent thread.
dont be a jerk, this could be fun. like fantasy pro-league but less satisfying.
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On April 21 2010 02:56 asdfTT123 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 02:54 shmoo wrote:
Guy with 4 posts holds contest with no reward. I for one look forward to an excellent thread. And you have six more posts?
Mega owned lol
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i think it would be more interesting to just add some polls on hot topics such as "will immortal get nerfed"
this is too detailed xd
like this would be more interesting imo ^^ not a contest tho so sry if im off-topic
POLLS
+ Show Spoiler +Poll: will the immortal get a nerf?yes (108) 54% no (93) 46% 201 total votes Your vote: will the immortal get a nerf? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
Poll: will sentry get a nerf?yes (91) 53% no (81) 47% 172 total votes Your vote: will sentry get a nerf? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
Poll: will broodlord and/or broodling get a nerf?yes (92) 56% no (71) 44% 163 total votes Your vote: will broodlord and/or broodling get a nerf? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
Poll: will terran mech get buffed?yes (93) 58% no (66) 42% 159 total votes Your vote: will terran mech get buffed? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
Poll: will infestor get changed in any way?yes (114) 74% no (40) 26% 154 total votes Your vote: will infestor get changed in any way? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
Poll: will queen get nerfed?no (117) 84% yes (23) 16% 140 total votes Your vote: will queen get nerfed? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
Poll: will marine get buffed?no (108) 79% yes (28) 21% 136 total votes Your vote: will marine get buffed? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
Poll: will mother ship get changed or removed?yes (78) 53% no (68) 47% 146 total votes Your vote: will mother ship get changed or removed? (Vote): yes
(Vote): no
anyhow to get back on-topic heres 5 of mine:
force field 50 to 75 energy
immortal build cost 40 to 50
broodlord 25 less hp
i dont think this will happen but i gotta write 5 so xd
reactor build timed 50 to 35
tech lab build time 25 to 35
if i could add 2 more id say
emp and storm 75 energy to 100 and increased radius on both )
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Who thinks that hatchery cost needs to increase to 350. Zerg has larva inject and they don't need to build additional hatcheries anywhere other than at mineral bases in sc2. Makes sense to balance the cost to all races now.
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I'm tired of seeing "Patch *" in the Starcraft 2 forum... gets my hopes up every time.
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Eh its all about the name of the prize
when its "nothing" it attracts .. no one
call it "Mensrea no prize" and you get tons of contestants
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1. Hydralisk health reverted to 90.
2. Force field energy cost is now 75
3. Warp gate tech cost increase to 100/100
4. Thor's air damage no longer deal bonus damage to light units
5. Neural parasite's range is now 8.
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Wow, I must be the only game designer on this site. Chris Crawford said that there are 3 different types of people: Those who play games, those who design games, and those who criticize games. Now, I understand most people on here are players and criticizers but there is nothing wrong with being designers for a little bit. It's OK to have specific opinions on balance changes and when you start thinking critically about it you might even have fun.
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1. Tank gas cost decreased
2. Tank supply dropped
3. Thor cooldown decreased
4. Hellion can now attack while moving
5. Roach's hive upgrade now does exactly nothing.
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come on guys, its not actually like hes offering a free beta key that he doesn't have or something... and the idea isn't too bad. Cut the guy some slack....
Here's my sympathy post
Chease's estimations
Roaches hp decreased by 25, damage decreased by 2
Maurader hp decreased by 15, bonus damage to armored decreased to 5
Imortal hp increased by 25, bonus damage to armored decreased by half
Forcefield is no longer able to be cast on top of units
Infestor ability fungal growth, is now a researched ability at infestor pit for 100/100 with build time of 80
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banelings nerfed back to their pre-buffed state doing less damage to non-light units
forcefield cost increased from 50 energy to 75
spawn larva takes 45 seconds up from 40
Scan ability removed from OC. Comsat upgrade available from OC for 50/50. Uses separate energy from mule.
Overseers regenerate hp much more quickly when not in combat (think protoss shield)
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Well, why not.
1. Immortal bonus damage reduced to 25 (obvious)
2. Marauder HP reduced to 100, Marauder Stim HP drain reduced to 15 (from 20 I think?)
3. Spawn Larva now spawns 3 Larvae at a time (I hate the new spam drones style)
4. Broodling base damage reduced to 2, Broodling movement speed reduced by 50%
5. Void Ray speed upgrade replaced with a range upgrade (to deal with Broodlords and Collossi)
But in fact they will do some unreasonable and weird changes that no one saw coming.
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Slight increase in immortal build time (5-10sec)
Immortal damage nerf vs armored. From 30 to 25
Small nerf to marauder damage. -2
Forcefield energy cost increased to 75
Forcefield duration reduced to 12 seconds
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idk seems like it could be some fun
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1. Roach supply cost increased to 2
2. Sentry's forcefield cost increased to 75
3. High templar's psystorm radius reverted to previous patch
4. Broodlord health decreased to 220
5. Tank's gas cost reduced to 100
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1. Forcefield energy up to 75
2. Immortal bonus dmg vs armored nerfed to 15
3. Thor's ground dmg nerfed to 40 per shot
4. Hydra's health increased to 85
5. Roach hp decreased by 10 but burrowed movement speed back to to previous patch speed.
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1. The Sentry's Force Field ability now acts as a small building, requiring a 1x1 grid area to place.
2. The Phoenix's Graviton Beam ability is no longer channeling and the duration has been reduced to 7 seconds down from 10.
3. The Reaper no longer passively jumps up and down cliffs, requiring the Nitro Pack upgrade which also increases the Reaper's movement speed. The cost and time of the Nitro Pack upgrade is unchanged.
4. The Ultralisk now has the passive ability "Towering Stature" allowing the Ultralisk to ignore collision from 1-supply units such as zerglings, marines, and roaches.
5. The Infestor's "Neural Parasite" ability is no longer channeling and now costs 75 energy and lasts 10 seconds.
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- Buff to supply drop (less energy or adds additional hp/armor)
- Buff to infestor (Infested Terran reworked)
- Forcefield energy up to 75
- Hallucination Energy up to 75
- Ultralisk buff (cost reduced)
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Marauder slow research reduced by 30 sec
Marauder slow research costs 100 100
Reduced broodling damage
Spawn larvae now spawns 3
sentry ff is 75 energy shield 50
psi storm is now channeled ability (disabling templar for duration) targeted on a single pixel
protoss removed from the game
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On April 21 2010 02:54 shmoo wrote:
Guy with 4 posts holds contest with no reward. I for one look forward to an excellent thread.
says the guy with only 10 posts
other than the obvious 3v3 and 4v4 maps and hopefully galaxy editor
i predict nerf to siege tanks and banshees
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Sentry - reduced maximum energy to 150.
Stalker - Increased bonus dmg vs armored from 4 to 6
Immortal - Reduced bonus dmg vs armored from 30 to 20
Siege Tank - Reduced gas cost from 125 to 100
Broodlord - Broodlings no longer deal dmg.
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1 -- ultralisk collision size reduced
2 -- broodlord damage reduced
3 -- sentry forcefield energy cost up (probably trading places with guardian shield)
4 -- infested terran spawns faster
5 -- archon combine time reduced
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Forcefield "uncastable" on units. (as pointed by cheAse)
Neural Parasite constantly consuming energy (as cloak).
Unsieged tank's attack rate slowed down a bit.
Starport build time upped by a little, like 5 more "seconds" to build.
Broodlord hitpoints reduced.
Not sure something will be done to tier 3 units and building though cause I think it'll be done in a later patch.
This thread will have to deal with troll so soon...
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Stalker damage up 2
Immortal base damage increased by 5, bonus damage decreased 10
Siege tech decreased by 25/25
Roach armor reverted to 2, damage down by 4
Pheonix attack cooldown reduced 0.5 seconds
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On April 21 2010 03:16 Tdelamay wrote:
1. Roach supply cost increased to 2
2. Sentry's forcefield cost increased to 75
3. High templar's psystorm radius reverted to previous patch
4. Broodlord health decreased to 220
5. Tank's gas cost reduced to 100
6. pvz now has a new victory condition: Survive 12 minutes. Victory is granted to any protoss that lasts this long.
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I like this idea.
1. Forcefield energy up to 75
2. Broodlord fire rate reduced by 10%
3. Storm damage increased from 80 to 95
4. Roach creation time increased by 15%
5. Ultralisk has default armor of 2 instead of 1
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On April 21 2010 03:19 s2pid_loser wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 02:54 shmoo wrote:
Guy with 4 posts holds contest with no reward. I for one look forward to an excellent thread. i predict nerf to banshees
No way.. They dont nerf something they previously buffed or otherwise, even if it makes sense..
Mothership will be laughing stock when sc2 is released.. It is destined..
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why r ppl excepting tank to get buffed? i think that unit is absolutely amazing in tvz and tvt
i think its more likely that the toss units r good vs the tank rather than the tank being a bad unit imo
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- Force fields have 150 hp and can be destroyed
- Reaper speed reduced by .1
- All Infester spell ranges increased by 1
- Roach tunneling speed increased to 1.6
- Marauder build time increased to 35 seconds
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1) Stalker build time decreased by 5 seconds.
2) Immortal bonus damage vs. armored reduced by 10.
3) Tank siege time reduced by 1 second, armor increased by 1.
4) Ventral sacs research cost decreased to 100/100, research time decreased to 100 seconds.
5) Opponents who have not scouted a Sensor Tower cannot see its radius. Once the Sensor Tower is spotted, the radius appears and stays until the Tower is destroyed.
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1. psi storm no longer works vs M&M
2. phoenix damage cut by 50%
3. tanks can stim
4. roach upgrades have no effect
5. zergling -10 hp
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On April 21 2010 03:24 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 03:16 Tdelamay wrote:
1. Roach supply cost increased to 2
2. Sentry's forcefield cost increased to 75
3. High templar's psystorm radius reverted to previous patch
4. Broodlord health decreased to 220
5. Tank's gas cost reduced to 100
lasts this long. 6. pvz now has a new victory condition: Survive 12 minutes. Victory is granted to any protoss that
Hey, it says to post 5. If there was 6 and 7, you wouldn't be complaining about pvz imbalance ;P
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1. Forcefield energy cost increased to 75.
2. Immortal Bonus damage to Armored decreased by 5.
3. Immortal Build time increased by 10 seconds.
4. Ultralisk now ignore collision with non-massive units. ( Similar to colossus )
5. Broodling damaged decreased by 2.
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1. Phoenix attack speed increased by 0.5 and Graviton Beam can now disable air units.
2. Psi Storm aoe reverted back to original size of 2 (if memory serves) and Feedback is changed to a new spell.
3. Archon now has Feedback instead of Templar, and starts with 2 shield armor.
4. Warp Gate cost increased to 75/75
5. Siege tank cost changed to 175/100
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1 - Forcefield duration decreased to 10 seconds.
2 - Broodlords will now spawn 1 Broodling on each attack.
3 - Planetery Fortress reduced to 35 damage.
4 - Banshee requirements increased to 150 gas.
5 - Phoenix base damage increased to 7.
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1. Stalkers can now blink up cliffs
2. Burrow now costs 50/50 (like warp gate)
3. Roaches now take up two supply
4. Roaches now have health decreased
5. Burrowed Roach Regen rate increased
6. Changed Corruption spell of Corrupter, Now when a building is corrupted it will remain corrupted until the enemy attacks the corruption. The corruption will have 100 hp biological.
7. Infestor neural parasite range increased like it was before.
8. Marauder movement speed decreased.
9. EMP now has a short animation of it being fired, maybe 0.5 seconds
10. Storm damage increased but over more time
11. Archon attack and range increased
12. Archon spell added which steals ally units energy to refill its shield(maybe enemy units too? idk)
13. pheonix are now quite a bit cheaper
14. Templar archives now allows you to build both DT's and HT's
15. Dark Shrine has been removed
16. Overlords can detect again
17. Overseer's have greatly increased vision, (better scouting, great for nydusing)
18. Tanks are now cheaper
19. Tank attack increased
20. Reaper damage to buildings reduced
21. Amount of stored energy possible in CC's decreased(late game, just mass mule at new base is too good atm)
22. Viking transform animation made faster
22. Viking AA range decreased
23. Viking ground attack increased
24. Banshee health decreased
25. Banshee attack decreased
26. Infestor spawn infested terran spell duration increased.
27. Broodlord health decreased
28. Broodlord no longer attacks with two broodlings on first attack
29. Baneling morph cost increased
30. Baneling attack increased(one baneling at the mineral line will kill workers if no defense upgrade)
31. Ghost snipe range increased
32. Mothership has been removed
33. Arbiter, or some other air caster for toss has been added.
34. Arbiter has normal recall and stasis
35. Upgrade for arbiter to allow bigger mothership recall
36. Thor cost increased
37. Thor now built by scv
38. Speed upgrade for phase prism made cheaper
39. Charge now 150/150 like blink
40. Hellion attack increased
41. Supply drop now adds hp and armor to supply depos
Things that i think would be sweet:
1.first person to type gg, all your buildings explode (seriously, wouldn't that be amazing?!)
2.When a nuke is produced in the ghost academy, if the ghost academy is destroyed, BOOM, so you gotta be careful. Ghost academy would look completely different when nuke is available so you can recognize it quickly. Would make terran place them away from their mineral line as an immortal drop would pwn. Could also be useful for defense to keep on your choke, and if enemy is running in with alot of units, just kill ur ghost academy and BAM. Would be pimp.
3.More things like the /dance commands for all races.
thats all i can think of atm
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this is a good idea...i think TL should sponsor this contest with a beta key =D
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time increased before "is being revealed" message appears after all town halls die.
roach loses 20 HP but gets a speed boost (both before and after speed upgrade)
vikings gas decrease by 25
ghost gas decrease by 25
phoenix +1 base armor
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3. The Reaper no longer passively jumps up and down cliffs, requiring the Nitro Pack upgrade which also increases the Reaper's movement speed. The cost and time of the Nitro Pack upgrade is unchanged.
Now that's just stupid -_-
Seriuosly, are you kidding me? Reapers suck allready, you don't build more than 5 in the entire game most of the time, and sometimes you don't build them at all.
Only because he can kill like 3 of your probes, it doesen't mean its too overpowered, jeez, its suppose to be a harasing unit.
3. Thor's ground dmg nerfed to 40 per shot
4. Hydra's health increased to 85
No, lets make thor do 20 dmg per shot, and mutas/hidras have 1000 hp each, that would be cool huh? --__--
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Unbelievable how biased most posts are...
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I don't know why people are flaming at the OP's low post count, I think it sounds like a fun competition even if there isn't a proper prize. Plus I'm sure TL would appreciate the community helping them find ways to pass out their keys :D
Anyway, my predictions:
1. Forcefield reduced to 10 secs
2. Forcefield given 5 second cooldown
3. Siege tank gas cost reduced to 100
4. Immortal base damage reduced to 15 (so now 15+30)
5. Reactor build time changed to 40.
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SCVs can no longer mine minerals
Thors have ability to mine minerals and bring whole patch to cc
zerg buildings can burrow
sentry shield reflects damage to kill attackers
collosus can retract legs and fly
when a player builds a mothership and wins "humiliation" sound from quake is played
marine has an ability to ride friendly zerglings
zerglings have an ability to propel themselves up clifs by farting
added disco ball to nexus to speed up probe mining rate
Void ray now says "chargin mah lazer" and model changed to this
psi storm now heals enemy units
replaced carrier interceptors with flying zealots
broodlords now spawn carriers
Every time player is under supply as protoss Artanis kills a kitten
added ability to protoss buildings to disintegrate into the void with -1000% costs recouped
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On April 21 2010 03:43 iounas wrote:
SCVs can no longer mine minerals
Thors have ability to mine minerals and bring whole patch to cc
zerg buildings can burrow
sentry shield reflects damage to kill attackers
collosus can retract legs and fly
when a player builds a mothership and wins "humiliation" sound from quake is played
You forgot about Nexus being able to lift-off.
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On April 21 2010 03:40 Topazas wrote:Show nested quote +3. The Reaper no longer passively jumps up and down cliffs, requiring the Nitro Pack upgrade which also increases the Reaper's movement speed. The cost and time of the Nitro Pack upgrade is unchanged. Now that's just stupid -_- Seriuosly, are you kidding me? Reapers suck allready, you don't build more than 5 in the entire game most of the time, and sometimes you don't build them at all. Only because he can kill like 3 of your probes, it doesen't mean its too overpowered, jeez, its suppose to be a harasing unit.
speed upgrade on harassment unit - I think he was aiming for a decked-out vulture here.
edit: unless he meant to leave the speed part of the upgrade the same. in which case, lame
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On April 21 2010 03:40 GoDannY wrote:
- Force field duration decreased to 10 seconds OR Force field now has 400HP and is destructable
- Tank cost decreased by 25/25 and cost 2 supply
- Phoenix now deals 0.5 splash damage
- Archons have +2 armor
- Broodlords -25 HP and can spawn max 6 broodlings at once (2x3 spawners flying around him)
I love the idea of giving the force field HP. Great call.
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1. Forcefield now drains energy continuously for each forcefield a sentry has cast (3 energy/s). forcefields disappear respective to the sentry that cast them after the sentry has zero energy [encourages energy management on toss, can't cast 2 forcefields with 110 energy, they will dissipate in a second]
2. Number of spawned larva adjusted to 2 larva for hatchery, 3 for lair, 4 for hive
3. Immortal damage changed from 20(+30 armored) to 25(+10) armored
4. Immortal build time increased from 40s to 50s
5. Infestors can now cast spells while burrowed
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1- Immortals building time increased.
2- Infestors price decreased
3- Tank gets additional HP
4- Broodlords decreased attack speed / generate 1 broodling at time
5- Phoenix increased armor by 1
Mothership should get buffed in some way too.
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1. Forcefeild increased to 75 energy
2. Immortal's super shield made an upgrade, with a nerf to armored damage down 5-10
3. Just and overall Buff to Ultras, decrease build time, and increase damage a bit, make them a viable option instead of a useless waste of minerals and gas.
4. Nerf the damage of the banshee from 12X2 to 10X2
5. Decrease the Vespene gas cost of the siege tank down 25 making it 100, and lower the supply down to 2
I have a couple more.....but those are the five I would like to see.
6.....Make the Brood Lord only shoot one broodling at the beginning, and lower the atk of each broodling by 1.
I need to put six sorry
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1. Tech lab cost increased to 50/50
2. Reactor build time decreased to 40 seconds
3. Hydralisk den now can build with Hatchery tech, Hydralisk speed upgrade now can be researched at Hydralisk den, Hydralisk damage rescaled to 5 + 5 vs armored, cost rescaled to 75/25, build time rescaled to 28, supply rescaled to 1
4. Roach Warren is now moved to Lair tech, Roach now regens 5hp/sec and comes with 2 armors, burrowed roach regens at 10 hp/sec, upgraded Roach regens 10hp/sec when not burrowed and 25/sec when burrowed, damage rescaled to 20, cost rescaled to 100/50 , build time rescaled to 40, supply rescaled to 2
5. Hallucination does not research now, Force Field is no longer a base skill of sentry. Force field is now researchable at Cybernatics Core, cost 100/100 and takes 110 seconds
Honestly, I think roaches and hydras should switch tech and roaches should get their identity back.
And also more of hallucination uses
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1. Ultralisks now smaller & faster
2. Carrier cost decreased 300/250
3. Queen air attack increased to 16
4. Immortal damage against armored reduced to 20
5. Infested Terran spawns 2 Terrans and duration increased.
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1. Thor's 250 mm cannon does less damage or loses its stun function.
2. The lurker is reintroduced to the game.
3. Broodlings do less (maybe none) damage.
4. Archon's are given splash damage.
5. Colossus is made more expensive.
Eh, maybe in my wildest dreams 
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Protoss
- Warp gate research moved to Citadel of Adun (50/50), research time decreased from 140 to 120
- Force Field is now an upgradeable ability from the Cybernetics Core (100/100, research time 140)
- Hallucination research time decreased 110 -> 100, Hallucination energy cost decreased to 75
Terran
- Reaper build time increased 40 -> 45
- Tech lab build time increased 25 -> 30
- Siege tank and Thor pivot speed slightly increased =D
Zerg
- Brood Lord armor decreased 2 -> 1
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1. Sentry forcefield decrease time to 10 seconds
2. Broodlord's no longer able to shoot two broodlings at once
I don't think there will be 5 predictable changes
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Really dude??
I'd be impressed if anyone was able to predict ONE change correctly considering how specific you have to be with this...
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What I hope will happen
1. Forcefield energy up to 75
2. Marauder damage reduced to 9+9
3. immortal bonus damage reduced to 20
4. Neural parasite range increased to 8
5. Infested Terran removed, replaced with new spell.
What I'm afraid will happen:
Roach HP lowered to 100
Hydra attack speed lowered again
Broodlords now have 0 armour
Broodlings do 1 damage
Fungal growth area of effect reduced
neural parasite now only usable in melee
Infested terrans now last half as long and move speed reduced
Ultralisk no longer has cleave
corrupt is now channeled
Mutalisk hp now 90
mutalisk speed reduced
nydus worm now costs 200 minerals and 200 gas each
spawn larva now spawns only 1 larva per cast
creep tumours are no longer invisible
spine crawlers now take twice as long to root and move slower.
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1. Roaches get buffed burrowed speed back to 2
2. Immortals bonus damage get nerfed 20 + 10
3.Thors build time increases back to its previous time
4. Infestors mind control ability goes back to pre-patch
5. Hydras hp increased back to 90
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On April 21 2010 04:05 c.Deadly wrote:
Protoss
- Warp gate research moved to Citadel of Adun (50/50), research time decreased from 140 to 120
- Force Field is now an upgradeable ability from the Cybernetics Core (100/100, research time 140)
- Hallucination research time decreased 110 -> 100, Hallucination energy cost decreased to 75
Terran
- Reaper build time increased 40 -> 45
- Tech lab build time increased 25 -> 30
- Siege tank and Thor pivot speed slightly increased =D
Zerg
- Brood Lord armor decreased 2 -> 1
cant imagine reapers building any longer than now lol
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1. Forcefield nerfed in some way
2. Roach supply increased to 2
3. Broodlord nerf
4. Tanks buffed
5. And just a Lot of the +dmg to armored nerfed/changed.
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My Predictions:
1. Marines gain the ability to "go prone," greatly reducing movement speed but increasing damage by 2. proning and unproning is nearly immeadiate and causes a 25% miss rate from ranged ground units, but increased damage from air units and coloxen.
2. To increase realism, Marines and Mauraders lose the ability to /dance and /cheer, but gain the ability to fart, groan, howl, sit dejectedly on the cliffside.
3. Instead of placing a stationary forcefield, sentries can emit a directional forcefield that pushes units out of the way for a short distance and then dissapears. Still reduces dps of massed armies, but cannot trap them. Good for clearing ramps but less good for holding them. Blocked by massive units, passes under coloxen.
4. To make archons viable, they gain a robe and wizard hat, exponentially increasing their charisma.
5. Increase phoenix movement speed, armor, damage, and allow them to levitate entire armies. Give them passive cloaking and let them shoot flame missiles which light bio units afire and saps their hp (like irradiate). When you kill a phoenix you create an indestructible pile of ash that will morph into a larger and even more powerful phoenix, which can only be countered by Flash.
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On April 21 2010 04:15 lolreaper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 04:05 c.Deadly wrote:
Protoss
- Warp gate research moved to Citadel of Adun (50/50), research time decreased from 140 to 120
- Force Field is now an upgradeable ability from the Cybernetics Core (100/100, research time 140)
- Hallucination research time decreased 110 -> 100, Hallucination energy cost decreased to 75
Terran
- Reaper build time increased 40 -> 45
- Tech lab build time increased 25 -> 30
- Siege tank and Thor pivot speed slightly increased =D
Zerg
- Brood Lord armor decreased 2 -> 1 cant imagine reapers building any longer than now lol
Yeah I can't really imagine a reaper nerf at this point. Reapers can be annoying early game, but they aren't that hard to defend against.
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Predictions:
1. Immortal will have its build time increased by 15 seconds.
2. Tank cost reduced from 150/125 to 125/100.
3. Infestor will see another re-tool of Neural Parasite. I predict a 2 range increase, while implementing a slightly longer time to cast.
4. Brood Lord gas cost down 25, rate of fire slower by 65%.
5. A race wide increase of structure hit points by 25% (except defensive structures).
Rationale:
1. Chrono Boosted Immortals simply come out incredibly fast and the likely place Blizz will look for a nerf is build time.
2. Tank build time decrease helped, but they are still too costly on resources, especially with the basically essential Reaper opening.
3. The main issue with Infestor and NP is the fact that they must be brought to the front lines to get a cast off. A range increase will help make this easier, the increased time to cast will also allow them to be noticed by the opponent making countering them still very possible.
4. Getting Brood Lords as a counter to mass ground as Zerg is often too gas costly to do effectively. Gas decrease will make this more viable for Zergs, meanwhile a substantial rate of fire decrease (over half as slow as they attack now), will make out-right mass Brood Lords more balanced.
5. Buildings simply die too fast to T1.5 pushes, a HP increase is likely to happen.
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On April 21 2010 02:54 shmoo wrote:
Guy with 4 posts holds contest with no reward. I for one look forward to an excellent thread.
To be honest, it's an impressive post for a person with only 4 posts.
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1. Force field energy cost increased to 75.
2. Immortal build time increased to 50 seconds.
3. Warp Gate upgrade increased to 100/100 cost.
4. Ultralisk starting armor increased from 1 to 2.
5. Reactor build time decreased to 40 seconds.
Really liked the idea of being unable to cast force field directly on units but I thought about it real hard and I changed my mind on that idea. Force field would only be used to block ramps at that point. Battles would turn into fumbling around for 3-4 wasted second trying to find a location to place it, and finally ending up settling for a pointless spot which has little to no effect on the outcome of the battle.
Sure you could use it preemptively but no one is going to attack head on into it if they see FFs up. Gives the spell very little offensive purpose and makes the ability only used for a camp fest.
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Reaper gas cost increased to 75.
Broodlord hp reduced & broodling damage & health reduced.
Phoenix's attack & health increased.
Infestors range increased & spawn infested terran / reworked / removed / (model made decent).
Carriers health inceased.
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1. Cost of Concussive Shells for Marauder reduced to 50/50 Min/Gas and time to research reduced to 40 seconds.
2. Energy cost of Forcefield increased to 75
3. Siege Tanks food cost reduced to 2
4. SCVs gain 2 bonus armour when constructing a building
5. Reactor build time reduced to 40 seconds
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On April 21 2010 03:02 Thamoo wrote:
1. Hydralisk health reverted to 90.
2. Force field energy cost is now 75
3. Warp gate tech cost increase to 100/100
4. Thor's air damage no longer deal bonus damage to light units
5. Neural parasite's range is now 8.
I'm pretty sure this is a zerg player
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1) Force field only keeps your units from moving through.
2) Immortals take 50 bonus damage from terran units.
3) Reapers have a 5% chance to go rogue and start killing your scvs.
4) Roach armored reduced to -50.
5) Units now all automatically attackmove from your base to theirs and cannot be controlled.
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On April 21 2010 03:43 iounas wrote:SCVs can no longer mine minerals Thors have ability to mine minerals and bring whole patch to cc zerg buildings can burrow sentry shield reflects damage to kill attackers collosus can retract legs and fly when a player builds a mothership and wins "humiliation" sound from quake is played marine has an ability to ride friendly zerglings zerglings have an ability to propel themselves up clifs by farting added disco ball to nexus to speed up probe mining rate Void ray now says "chargin mah lazer" and model changed to thispsi storm now heals enemy units replaced carrier interceptors with flying zealots broodlords now spawn carriers Every time player is under supply as protoss Artanis kills a kitten added ability to protoss buildings to disintegrate into the void with -1000% costs recouped
This would be the best game ever.
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On April 21 2010 03:43 iounas wrote:SCVs can no longer mine minerals Thors have ability to mine minerals and bring whole patch to cc zerg buildings can burrow sentry shield reflects damage to kill attackers collosus can retract legs and fly when a player builds a mothership and wins "humiliation" sound from quake is played marine has an ability to ride friendly zerglings zerglings have an ability to propel themselves up clifs by farting added disco ball to nexus to speed up probe mining rate Void ray now says "chargin mah lazer" and model changed to thispsi storm now heals enemy units replaced carrier interceptors with flying zealots broodlords now spawn carriers Every time player is under supply as protoss Artanis kills a kitten added ability to protoss buildings to disintegrate into the void with -1000% costs recouped
How did I miss this post. This is the single best thing I've ever read on TL. Also that image is my desktop =P
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Here's my entry
1. Hydralisk Speed Upgrade avaliable at Hydra Den for 150/150
2. Sentry's Forcefield spell is now a channelling spell.
3. Colossus range upgrade to 8 instead of 9, damage reduced by 5
4. Marine build time reduced by 4 seconds
5. Reduce armour of Broodlords by 1
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1. Observers now require robotics bay.
2. Price of robotics bay decreased by 25m/50g
3. Thor's ground damage reduced to 40 per attack.
4. Overseer upgrade gas cost reduced by 25.
5. Spawn larva now only spawns 3 larva, but has a 10 second reduced cast time.
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1) Ultralisks will have slightly better pathing or possibly 2 armour to start.
2) Roach will probably have a regen change, perhaps regaining some regen at hive above ground, or via burrow being cheaper or something.
3) Turret will lose a hair of damage. Not a ton, but just a bit.
4) Brood lords will lose something small, like perhaps broodlings will do 1 less damage, or their armor will decrease by 1, or they will lose 50 hp.
5) Infestor will get infested terran buffed beyond belief, against all the wishes of every zerg player in existence.
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1.stalker build time will be slightly increased
2.planetary fortress will have a splash damage reduction
3.broodlord attack speed will drop slightly
4.the sentry will have less energy
5.Thor's will have a longer cool down on air and ground attacks
crossing my fingers that this is the release of MAC beta!
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On April 21 2010 03:43 iounas wrote:SCVs can no longer mine minerals Thors have ability to mine minerals and bring whole patch to cc zerg buildings can burrow sentry shield reflects damage to kill attackers collosus can retract legs and fly when a player builds a mothership and wins "humiliation" sound from quake is played marine has an ability to ride friendly zerglings zerglings have an ability to propel themselves up clifs by farting added disco ball to nexus to speed up probe mining rate Void ray now says "chargin mah lazer" and model changed to thispsi storm now heals enemy units replaced carrier interceptors with flying zealots broodlords now spawn carriers Every time player is under supply as protoss Artanis kills a kitten added ability to protoss buildings to disintegrate into the void with -1000% costs recouped
hope someone makes this happen with the editor :D
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On April 21 2010 04:23 Jugan wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 02:54 shmoo wrote:
Guy with 4 posts holds contest with no reward. I for one look forward to an excellent thread. To be honest, it's an impressive post for a person with only 4 posts.
hmm do i sense a beta key scholarship attempt?
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1. Forcefield energy now costs 75 up from 50.
2. Stalkers can no longer blink up destructible rocks.
3. Broodlings deal 1 less damage.
4. Thor repair rate slightly reduced.
5. Cannons now take 10 more seconds to construct.
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On April 21 2010 03:19 s2pid_loser wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 02:54 shmoo wrote:
Guy with 4 posts holds contest with no reward. I for one look forward to an excellent thread. says the guy with only 10 posts
Ugh. How can people make this mistake over and over.
Yeah he has 10 posts, but he's not making the thread. See the difference? ><
On topic: I liked Liquid`Drone's post and, in light of it, am glad that this patch is taking a couple of weeks. It's really difficult to say what's going to be changed. The trend has been that the big "nerf outcry" from the community gets attention after a while. And I think it's really about time the immortal get's changed to 30 (+5) vs armored or 25 (+15) or something along those lines. It's the hardest hard counter in the game and the fact that its outlasted the marauder and roach nerfs is somewhat surprising.
Other than that, I'd say give the game some more time. I think these marauder, roach and immortal builds will slowly get passed on to creativity. Possibly reduce how beefy they [marauder/roach] are, but don't mess with the supply (as some people have been suggesting). I'd say the best thing about the roach right now is that it costs 1 supply. But I could be painfully wrong.
I kind of wish the viking wasn't so air based. I like the unit for the most part, but it'd be nice to see "assault mode" not just for the occasional drone harass on Kulas Ravine. As it stands, no one would make them for the effects of a supplemental ground force due to their cost and excellent viability in ship form, so perhaps it'll remain wishful thinking until some other creative uses roll around.
I'd say that, by "Legacy of the Void" (the second expansion), this game's edges will have been smoothed. Not only by years of testing, but with new units and abilities to fill in the cracks.
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1. Reaper build-time increased from 40 to 45
2. Sentries' Force-field cost increased from 50 to 75 energy
3. Brood lords attack range decreased from 9 to 7
4. Immortals damage decreased from 20 (+30 to armored) to 20 (+25 to armored)
5. Marauders health decreased from 125 to 115
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On April 21 2010 04:30 NiiPPLES wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 03:43 iounas wrote:SCVs can no longer mine minerals Thors have ability to mine minerals and bring whole patch to cc zerg buildings can burrow sentry shield reflects damage to kill attackers collosus can retract legs and fly when a player builds a mothership and wins "humiliation" sound from quake is played marine has an ability to ride friendly zerglings zerglings have an ability to propel themselves up clifs by farting added disco ball to nexus to speed up probe mining rate Void ray now says "chargin mah lazer" and model changed to thispsi storm now heals enemy units replaced carrier interceptors with flying zealots broodlords now spawn carriers Every time player is under supply as protoss Artanis kills a kitten added ability to protoss buildings to disintegrate into the void with -1000% costs recouped This would be the best game ever.
that's totally hilarious
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1] zerglings +1 speed
2] roaches -1 speed
3] transfusion costs 25E
4] blink cooldown 2/3 of what it is (cause stalkers are awesome)
5] hallucinated units require appropriate tech building for units that require tech beyond the production building (say immortal but no colossus at t2)
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you made me laugh LOL
On April 21 2010 04:49 agleed.agleed wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 04:30 NiiPPLES wrote:On April 21 2010 03:43 iounas wrote:SCVs can no longer mine minerals Thors have ability to mine minerals and bring whole patch to cc zerg buildings can burrow sentry shield reflects damage to kill attackers collosus can retract legs and fly when a player builds a mothership and wins "humiliation" sound from quake is played marine has an ability to ride friendly zerglings zerglings have an ability to propel themselves up clifs by farting added disco ball to nexus to speed up probe mining rate Void ray now says "chargin mah lazer" and model changed to thispsi storm now heals enemy units replaced carrier interceptors with flying zealots broodlords now spawn carriers Every time player is under supply as protoss Artanis kills a kitten added ability to protoss buildings to disintegrate into the void with -1000% costs recouped This would be the best game ever. that's totally hilarious
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Sentry cost up by 15 minerals
Sentry forcefield energy up to 75 (it's a reasonable number, and many seem to agree)
Broodlings from Broodlords needs to be researched.
Phoenix dmg increased by 2
Phoenix cost increased with 15 minerals.
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-World Editor
-Ladder Reset
-Mac Beta 3-4 days after
-Concussive shot research time decreased
-Concussive shot research cost decreased
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8748 Posts
You won reading lessons!
1) List exactly 5 (no more no less) balance changes that the patch will bring.
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So just a question. How many people who posted in this thread have even played the beta?
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- Gave reapers a slight cooldown (1-3 seconds) for cliff jumping
- Reduced roach armor to 0 ---> Created research similar to Chitinous plating for ultralisk, but for roach warren (100 minerals/gas, 120 build time, +2 armor)
- Removed 'bonus' armor type damage
- Protoss may now warp units on top of collosi in order to attack air units better. If the collosi dies, the unit dies.
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On April 21 2010 02:54 shmoo wrote:
Guy with 4 posts holds contest with no reward. I for one look forward to an excellent thread.
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As for balance changes in the patch, I'm told that Marauders will be buffed a bit following the "over-nerf" they received in Patch 8, according to lead designer Dustin Browder.
Marauder will be buff o.O
As a terran, i feel it weird because he is ok now
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Really getting tired of people wanting to nerf the roach even more, get over it, learn to beat them. Terran and Toss both have units who +dmg to armored and zerg dont, USE THEM.
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Immortal- build time incerased
Concussive Shells Build time decreased
Concussive Shells Cost Decreased
Sentry Forcefield duration decreased / Sentry Forcefield mana increased
Roach HP increased by 10
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1. Gateways no longer make Warp Gates.
2. Immortals have bad pathfinding.
3. Immortals no longer make force fields.
4. Phoenix's spell changed to Disruption Web.
5. Void Ray's attack reduced to 10.
6. Scout reintroduced.
7. Void Ray gains Stasis and Recall abilities.
8. Observer requires Observatory to produce.
9. Observer's cost changed to 25//75.
10. Warp Prism no longer has the Pylon Function.
11. Void Rays need a Void Ray Tribunal to be built.
12. Reaver reintroduced.
13. Dark Archon reintroduced.
14. Storm no longer stacks.
15. Storm's radius increased.
16. Storm's damage increased to 112.
17. Chrono boost removed.
18. Photon cannons' HP and shields reduced to 100.
19. Sentry removed.
20. Stalker removed.
21. Immortal now produces from Gateway.
22. Blink ability removed.
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1. Sentry Guardian Shield costs 100 energy.
2. Sentry FF costs 75 energy.
3. Immortal build time increased by 5 seconds.
4. Tanks cost 175/100.
5. Scans cost 25 energy.
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1. Sentry : Damage has been decreased from 8 to 6.5
2. Sentry : Force Field : The duration of this ability has decreased from 15 to 8
3. Sentry : Force Field : The energy cost of this ability has increased from 50 to 100
4. Hydralisk : Damage has been decreased from 12 to 10
5. Pylon no longer provide energy to buildings who are not on the same ground level
Thx to the TL for the contest !
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1. Force field energy up to 75
2. Force field now requires research from the twilight council (120 seconds 150/150)
3. Thor's now use ranged attack versus the colossus if out of range of ground attack
4. Immortal build time up to 50 from 40
5. Marauder concussive shell research time down to 60 and cost down to 50/50
--
1-4 are more things I hope will happen than things I expect to >.>
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What are some things I'd like changed...!
1. Tank cost/food count reduced but siege damage lowered.
2. Reapers made viable mid/late game and not just as a cheese or early harass strat unit.
3. HSM damage slightly lowered
4. non defensive buildings gain 10-15% durability (Planetary fortress splash reduced too X_X)
5. Destructible FF
6. Hardcounters slightly toned down.
Very vague I know >_> Just seems like fights are insanely fast currently.
Would also like some zerg lair or hive tech to place a "dark swarm" over a small definited area of your base, sort of like a fog that prevents scouting from comsat/observer, as a way to hide zerg tech.
Hallucination made cheaper as well, as of now its useless.
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1. +10 sec to immortal build time.
2. -1 sec to duration of sentry force field.
3. Spawn larva capped to 7 max per hatchery.
4. -10 to broodling hp.
5. -1 to thor anti air range
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you can always tell what race each poster is playing :D
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On April 21 2010 05:28 deo.deo wrote:
you can always tell what race each poster is playing :D
Absolutely (okay I'm biased myself as well but this is just a fun thread isn't it)?
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On April 21 2010 05:28 deo.deo wrote:
you can always tell what race each poster is playing :D
Don't tempt me.
1. Motherships can be massed.
2. Void rays have 4 levels of attack, 5, 10, 30, and infinity.
3. Carriers can make 32 interceptors.
4. Zealots can get Adrenal Glands.
5. Colossi have 1000 HP.
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1. Reapers remade, now places timed destructable bombs for massive damage to buildings and armoured. Build time and hp increased.
2. Ultralisks made able to swat fliers from the air, like a reverse Phoenix.
3. Sentrys can no longer attack.
4. Hunter Seeker Missile moved from Raven to Overlord.
5. New Zerg ground unit, the Zerg Troll. Builds from Hatchery or randomly spawns under bridges. Calls for Protoss nerf. Self-references.
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Terran
Marine build time decreased by 2 seconds.
Raven build time decreased by 5 seconds.
HSM ability no longer requires Fusion Core to be researched.
Siege Tank cost reduced from 150/125 to 150/100.
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On April 21 2010 05:11 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
14. Storm no longer stacks.
Afaik, storm never stacked and never will stack in BW or SC2. I don't know how this idea got to be so pervasive.
Edit: typo
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On April 21 2010 04:57 Liquid`NonY wrote:You won reading lessons! Show nested quote +1) List exactly 5 (no more no less) balance changes that the patch will bring.
´
So funny :D
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1. Forcefield made destructible with 200hp and 2 armour. Vulnerable to anti-building attacks.
2. Phoenix build time reduced to 35s.
3. Immortal bonus against armoured reduced to +25. HP increased to 240.
4. Tech Lab build time increased to 35s.
5. Tank bonus against armoured in mobile mode increased to +15.
Justification:
1. Forcefield loses value as a ramp block after the early game and becomes counterable by units with limited or no use atm against Protoss - reapers and banelings - increasing unit diversity. Armour means it holds its value vs zerglings.
2. Makes the very situational phoenix easier to build on demand without changing its combat balance.
3. Take the micro focus off Immortals a bit by reducing the speed at which they influence battles.
4. Slow down reaper harass by 10s. Make reactors and thus marines relatively a bit more viable.
5. Make unsieged tank useful in more situations, strengthening factory tech.
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On April 21 2010 05:28 deo.deo wrote:
you can always tell what race each poster is playing :D
On April 21 2010 03:10 spinesheath wrote:
1. Immortal bonus damage reduced to 25 (obvious)
2. Marauder HP reduced to 100, Marauder Stim HP drain reduced to 15 (from 20 I think?)
3. Spawn Larva now spawns 3 Larvae at a time (I hate the new spam drones style)
4. Broodling base damage reduced to 2, Broodling movement speed reduced by 50%
5. Void Ray speed upgrade replaced with a range upgrade (to deal with Broodlords and Collossi)
What race am I playing?
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adding to my previous prediction:
* replaced all unit attack sounds with "terrible terrible damage" sound effect
* new unit "tl admin" with autocast ability to ban all enemy units that dont provide 8 well thought out reasons of why they should be allowed to live
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1. Marauder's concussion upgrade is brought down to 75/75 and a build time of 75
2. Storms have an increased radius <--- omg plzzz
3. Roaches now cost 2 supply
4. Warpgates now in templar tech.
5. GALAXY EDITORR WOOOOH
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On April 21 2010 05:34 m3rciless wrote:Afaik, storm never stacked and never will stack in BW or SC2. I don't know how this idea got to be so pervasive. Edit: typo
I thought the whole reason they were nerfing it is because it stacks now.
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On April 21 2010 05:43 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 05:34 m3rciless wrote:On April 21 2010 05:11 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
14. Storm no longer stacks.
Afaik, storm never stacked and never will stack in BW or SC2. I don't know how this idea got to be so pervasive. Edit: typo I thought the whole reason they were nerfing it is because it stacks now.
no.. they are nerfing it because as a side effect to pretty animation it deals damage.
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1. Sentry FF duration reduced by 5 sec
2. Immortal shield +50
3. Immortal damage mechanic revamped: 25 (+2) +15 vs Armored (+3)
4. Infested Terran "build time" halved / spawns two units
5. Thor ability requires upgrade
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1. Ultralisk base armor increased by 1
2. Force field costs 75 energy
3. Phoenix cost reduces by 50 minerals
4. Archon range increased by 1
5. Infestor cost reduced by 25 gas and 25 minerals
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1. I expect Stalkers to get nerfed (due to their popularity in rushes).
2. OTOH, I expect Void Rays (and possibly Phoenixes) to get a buff (to boost the Protoss airgame, esp. vs. Mutas).
3. Speaking of Mutas, expect a nerf there.
4. Roaches can expect a nerf (though not as much as Mutalisks will get).
5. Expect some balancing with mineral/gas-gather units (SCVs/drones/Probes) so that each race has the same initial gather rate.
Yes; I am predicting that the buffs/nerfs will concentrate on Protoss and Zerg. The Mutalisk nerf is because they are a real nightmare to counter (for either Protoss or Terran as it stands) even heads-up in the air (and it doesn't help that any Terran/Protoss air counters are not buildable until much later than Mutalisks). For those same reason, I'm expecting a buff for the Void Ray (and possibly the Phoenix) so either or both can be used to counter Mutalisks (or a Muta/Hydra air-land combined rush). Roaches can be countered with Zealots (and Immortals to an extent), though it now requires two Immortals for each Roach (or four Zealots); any nerf would bring Immortals and Roaches to even-up. The balancing for basic units is so that unit direction, not initial racial choice, will determine resource gather rates.
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Unfortunately I don't have a beta key to even know what is going on so I cannot even make a guess :S
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1. Metabolic boost for lings now removed.
2.Immortals now has to upgrade the shield in "Forge" for 50/50 with a 50 sec building time.
3.Forcefield's size has been reduces to 1 instead of (2)?
4.Emp now only removes to 50% of the shield so if a unit has 100 in shield and emp is make he has 50 left and it doesn't stack.
5.Archons basearmor increased to 4 and attack now bounces like mutalisks but has no splash.
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People that want to buff Stalkers obviously never tried any harras with them. Stalkers come equipped with monstrous range (effectively "1 better than your units"), are very fast and not clumsy like Dragoons, shoot very fast and have rapidly regenerating shields. Terran has like no way to deal with even one stalker just firing one, two shots at his units and then running away to regenerate, at least not until Concussive Shells are researched.
Also, stalkers + warpgates stop like any harras anywhere on the map, something like 4+ banshees is required to deal damage, and Reapers cannot even run from them.
I'd like to see something like starting speed reduced, blink also upgrades it to current value, base range 5 + upgrade at core, maybe some dmg buff to balance it out in PvZ. Two nerfs seem bit too much obiously. On the other hand, Stalkers got buffed while Marauders and Roches got nerfed, and they didn't start at 8 + 6 without a reason.
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1. Thors will receive a decrease in HP and ground damage - to oh lets say 350 hp and 40 (x2)
2. Force Fields will now have HP and are destructible - 200 HP each
3. Roaches probably need an overhaul so I'd say less damage, more HP - I honestly can't tell with this one so guessing -2 from current damage and +20 to HP
4. Protoss Motherships will probably receive a lower build time - 60 seconds?
5. Stalkers lose damage (probably -2 from current)
I have no evidence to support myself but a guess is a guess eh?
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1) forcefield mana cost up to 75
2) phoenix air damage increased by 2
3) immortal cost up to 300 mins
4) ultralisk damage increased
5) roach damage converted to +light
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1. Immortals movement speed is reduced.
2. Forcefield is attackable.
3. Thors attack speed is reduced.
4. Nydus worm is spaning in 10 seconds on creep.
5. Infestors can use spells in burrowed modus.But the spells dont last that long as usual.
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1. Forcefield energy up to 75.
2. Immortal Hardened Shields from 10 to 8.
3. Marauder build time +5 seconds.
4- Marauder Concussive Shells from 80sec to 60sec.
5- Lurkers are back.
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The number of people suggesting force field be up to 75 energy is depressing.
I'd like to see you people hold off an all-in speedling rush without being able to warp in sentries to force field..
You'd basically be 100% forced to wall in every single game and then forced to go straight to immortals in the possibility that they go roaches (since if you don't have the immortals your wall will get shot down and you'll lose your pylons/gateways).
It will make every single PvZ the exact same strategy for the protoss.
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1. Brood Lord: Broodling damage reduced to 2.
2. Zealot charge/speed upgrade cost reduced 150/150.
3. Infested Terran despawn timer increased +5 seconds.
4. Siege Tank +1 armor or +10 hp.
5. Psi Storm damage increased.
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On April 21 2010 06:30 -orb- wrote:
The number of people suggesting force field be up to 75 energy is depressing.
I'd like to see you people hold off an all-in speedling rush without being able to warp in sentries to force field..
This.
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1. Immortal build time increase from 40 to 55
2. Immortal gas cost increase from 100 to 125
3. Reapers now require Engineering Bay
4. Concussive Shell research time reduced from 80 to 60
5. Forcefield no longer able to be cast on top of UNITS (Still buildings to push away repairing SCVs)
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1. Roach Supply increased to 2
2. Marauder bonus vs armored decreased
3. Concussive Shell research time decreased
4. Immortal bonus damage decreased
5. Siege Tank gas cost lowered
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On April 21 2010 06:38 Ner0 wrote:
3. Reapers now require Engineering Bay
yeah lets nerf anything that can do any damage in the game or that can be powerful as harassment
actually lets just remove all damage from the game CANT WE ALL JUST BE FRIENDS
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On April 21 2010 06:14 GsOne wrote:
People that want to buff Stalkers obviously never tried any harras with them. Stalkers come equipped with monstrous range (effectively "1 better than your units"), are very fast and not clumsy like Dragoons, shoot very fast and have rapidly regenerating shields. Terran has like no way to deal with even one stalker just firing one, two shots at his units and then running away to regenerate, at least not until Concussive Shells are researched.
Also, stalkers + warpgates stop like any harras anywhere on the map, something like 4+ banshees is required to deal damage, and Reapers cannot even run from them.
I'd like to see something like starting speed reduced, blink also upgrades it to current value, base range 5 + upgrade at core, maybe some dmg buff to balance it out in PvZ. Two nerfs seem bit too much obiously. On the other hand, Stalkers got buffed while Marauders and Roches got nerfed, and they didn't start at 8 + 6 without a reason.
That's exactly why I predicted the opposite for Stalkers (a nerf as opposed to a buff). Right now, it's easier (and earlier) to build Stalkers than Immortals (which is problematical, since Immortals don't have the capabilities of Stalkers, and are the replacement for Dragoons). In short, Immortals are, if anything *underpowered*, while Stalkers are overpowered. Unless you are going to buff Immortals (so there is not that wide gap power-wise between Immortals and Stalkers), then Stalkers need a nerfing.
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On April 21 2010 03:43 iounas wrote:SCVs can no longer mine minerals Thors have ability to mine minerals and bring whole patch to cc zerg buildings can burrow sentry shield reflects damage to kill attackers collosus can retract legs and fly when a player builds a mothership and wins "humiliation" sound from quake is played marine has an ability to ride friendly zerglings zerglings have an ability to propel themselves up clifs by farting added disco ball to nexus to speed up probe mining rate Void ray now says "chargin mah lazer" and model changed to thispsi storm now heals enemy units replaced carrier interceptors with flying zealots broodlords now spawn carriers Every time player is under supply as protoss Artanis kills a kitten added ability to protoss buildings to disintegrate into the void with -1000% costs recouped
omg ROFL greatest thing i've seen all day!
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On April 21 2010 06:34 iNty.sCream wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 06:30 -orb- wrote:
The number of people suggesting force field be up to 75 energy is depressing.
I'd like to see you people hold off an all-in speedling rush without being able to warp in sentries to force field..
This.
Just curious if you guys think FF needs nerfed at all and if so what should be done then. I understand that waiting for 25 energy to charge for a force field may seem like forever, and every single second counts. Not saying I agree or disagree I would just like some elaboration on what needs to be done if anything.
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1. Reactor build time reduced by 8 seconds.
2. Marauder start with a 20% slow on the attack (concussive shell upgrade to 50% still 100/100)
3. Siege tank gas cost reduced by 25, food count cost reduced to 2.
4. Thor ground attack reduced to 40 damage from cannons, attack speed increased by 10%.
5. Infestor Neural Parasite range increased by 1.
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On April 21 2010 07:01 PGHammer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 06:14 GsOne wrote:
People that want to buff Stalkers obviously never tried any harras with them. Stalkers come equipped with monstrous range (effectively "1 better than your units"), are very fast and not clumsy like Dragoons, shoot very fast and have rapidly regenerating shields. Terran has like no way to deal with even one stalker just firing one, two shots at his units and then running away to regenerate, at least not until Concussive Shells are researched.
Also, stalkers + warpgates stop like any harras anywhere on the map, something like 4+ banshees is required to deal damage, and Reapers cannot even run from them.
I'd like to see something like starting speed reduced, blink also upgrades it to current value, base range 5 + upgrade at core, maybe some dmg buff to balance it out in PvZ. Two nerfs seem bit too much obiously. On the other hand, Stalkers got buffed while Marauders and Roches got nerfed, and they didn't start at 8 + 6 without a reason. That's exactly why I predicted the opposite for Stalkers (a nerf as opposed to a buff). Right now, it's easier (and earlier) to build Stalkers than Immortals (which is problematical, since Immortals don't have the capabilities of Stalkers, and are the replacement for Dragoons). In short, Immortals are, if anything *underpowered*, while Stalkers are overpowered. Unless you are going to buff Immortals (so there is not that wide gap power-wise between Immortals and Stalkers), then Stalkers need a nerfing.
that doesnt make any sense
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On April 21 2010 07:01 PGHammer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 06:14 GsOne wrote:
People that want to buff Stalkers obviously never tried any harras with them. Stalkers come equipped with monstrous range (effectively "1 better than your units"), are very fast and not clumsy like Dragoons, shoot very fast and have rapidly regenerating shields. Terran has like no way to deal with even one stalker just firing one, two shots at his units and then running away to regenerate, at least not until Concussive Shells are researched.
Also, stalkers + warpgates stop like any harras anywhere on the map, something like 4+ banshees is required to deal damage, and Reapers cannot even run from them.
I'd like to see something like starting speed reduced, blink also upgrades it to current value, base range 5 + upgrade at core, maybe some dmg buff to balance it out in PvZ. Two nerfs seem bit too much obiously. On the other hand, Stalkers got buffed while Marauders and Roches got nerfed, and they didn't start at 8 + 6 without a reason. That's exactly why I predicted the opposite for Stalkers (a nerf as opposed to a buff). Right now, it's easier (and earlier) to build Stalkers than Immortals (which is problematical, since Immortals don't have the capabilities of Stalkers, and are the replacement for Dragoons). In short, Immortals are, if anything *underpowered*, while Stalkers are overpowered. Unless you are going to buff Immortals (so there is not that wide gap power-wise between Immortals and Stalkers), then Stalkers need a nerfing.
Why would you want something from the Robo Bay, a support type of unit producing building, to create units that would be a core component of the army in comparison to a gateway unit?
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1. Reactor build time decreased to 35 seconds.
2. Marine build time decreased to 22 seconds.
3. Concussive Shells upgrade decreased to 50/50.
4. Immortal's Hardened Shields are now an upgraded ability, available from the Twilight Council.
5. Broodlord's damage decreased by 5 and HP by 50.
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On April 21 2010 06:30 -orb- wrote:
The number of people suggesting force field be up to 75 energy is depressing.
I'd like to see you people hold off an all-in speedling rush without being able to warp in sentries to force field..
You'd basically be 100% forced to wall in every single game and then forced to go straight to immortals in the possibility that they go roaches (since if you don't have the immortals your wall will get shot down and you'll lose your pylons/gateways).
It will make every single PvZ the exact same strategy for the protoss.
orb i agree but blizzard need to do this to realize that protoss t1 units are weak...
im toss and i voted for this nerf :D
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On April 21 2010 07:09 TheTuna wrote:
4. Immortal's Hardened Shields are now an upgraded ability, available from the Twilight Council.
Hey, I like that.
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On April 21 2010 07:13 RPGabe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 07:09 TheTuna wrote:
4. Immortal's Hardened Shields are now an upgraded ability, available from the Twilight Council.
Hey, I like that.
Thanks, my only concern is that they might compete too much with Zealot Legs and Blink. I'm not sure if it'd be any better off at the Cybernetics Core.
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+More micro addded to the game
+Not blob vs blob anymore
+More Windows for Timing Attacks added
+Lurkers back ingame
+Iam Happy.
iam not zerg.
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1. Forcefield cost up to 125 energy from 50.
2. Immortal damage now flat 8x4(+1).
3. Siege Tank gas cost down to 75 from 125.
4. Reaper gas cost down to 25 from 50. Merc Compound building (100/100) re-introduced as requirement for Reapers. Spider Mines upgrade added to Merc Compound (each Reaper gains 2 Spider Mines, which reside initially on their shoulder pads). Spider Mines may be placed on buildings and will detonate after 10 second time dealing 150damage (unless destroyed). Nitro Packs moved to Merc Compound.
5. Thor armor raised to 2 from 1. Anti-Air attack is now flak and animation evolves cannons on Thor's back. Thor 250mm cannon ability removed. New Berserker ability added to Thor. Ability is passive and allows the thor to fire at 2 targets simultaneously (must be either only ground or air). When targeting ground targets 2 of the Thors 6 cannons are chosen at random and fired at the target. The Thor is only able to target multiple targets if they are both in front of the Thor.
ps. I figured I might as well have some fun with 4 and 5, since I'm not sure what are good balance suggestions; ie. minimum impact changes.
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Queen now flies, is lair tech, and can cast spawn broodlings, ensnare, and spawn infested terrain.
Mule is replaced with an extra scv.
Chrono boost only works on forge upgrades.
All forge upgrades time increased by 50%.
Broodlord no longer shoots broodlings, and name change to Swarm Guardian.
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On April 21 2010 06:34 iNty.sCream wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 06:30 -orb- wrote:
The number of people suggesting force field be up to 75 energy is depressing.
I'd like to see you people hold off an all-in speedling rush without being able to warp in sentries to force field..
This.
On the other hand, the one person to suggest a nerf to sentries max mana is a genius.
1. Ultralisk collision size reduced
2. Archon collision size reduced
3. Pheonix damage changed from 2*5 (+ 5) to 2*7 (+3)
4. Reaper damage reduced from 2*4(+4) to 2*4(+3), Reaper hps increased from 50 to 60
5. Baneling "volatile burst" ability changed: damage reduced to 10(+15), heals allied zerg in splash area for 10 damage.
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1. force field nerf (my favourite idea is to make it channeled, but the most likely outcome is 75 mana cost). Slight possibility of guardian shield requiring research, or swapping places with hallu
2. immortal build time +15s, -10 bonus dmg versus armor
3. reactor build time back to 40s (or marine build time decrease)
4. ultralisk buff. +1 base armor seems sensible
5. scan energy cost reduced to 25
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1. Forcefield energy cost up to 75 from 50
2. Ultralisk move speed increased
3. Immortal damage reduced from 20(+30) to 20(+25)
4. Photon cannon build time increased
5. Banshee attack damage reduced
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On April 21 2010 07:13 RPGabe wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 07:09 TheTuna wrote:
4. Immortal's Hardened Shields are now an upgraded ability, available from the Twilight Council.
Hey, I like that.
horrible idea imho
then toss doesnt have any single ground unit that doesnt require upgrades to perform well
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On April 21 2010 07:38 summerloud wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 07:13 RPGabe wrote:On April 21 2010 07:09 TheTuna wrote:
4. Immortal's Hardened Shields are now an upgraded ability, available from the Twilight Council.
Hey, I like that. horrible idea imho then toss doesnt have any single ground unit that doesnt require upgrades to perform well
like terran ?
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On April 21 2010 06:30 -orb- wrote:
The number of people suggesting force field be up to 75 energy is depressing.
I'd like to see you people hold off an all-in speedling rush without being able to warp in sentries to force field..
You'd basically be 100% forced to wall in every single game and then forced to go straight to immortals in the possibility that they go roaches (since if you don't have the immortals your wall will get shot down and you'll lose your pylons/gateways).
It will make every single PvZ the exact same strategy for the protoss.
making it 75 energy would smooth the entire game while keeping 50 would only be good for this argument
sorry but the change is much more important than ur window of timing to defend a speedling rush
its better if they change it to 75 and compensates it by buffing toss or nerfing zerg so tosses can defend vs speedling alling. i dont know how exactly u would do that but i dont know pvz in general but the argument of keeping it on 50 is ridiculous here
besides terran already gotta wallin to stop zerg rushes too, and we cant even wallin with supply depots anymore because baneling owns it.
but i agree its ridiculous that u have to wallin every game just to be safe vs zerg
On April 21 2010 07:38 summerloud wrote:
then toss doesnt have any single ground unit that doesnt require upgrades to perform well
thats pretty much bs seeing how toss almost never upgrade anything in the early game or early-midgame while terran and zerg r upgrading all throughout the game
i hope they dont add upgrade for the hardened shields tho
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1. Forcefield energy cost increased from 50 to 75
2. Forcefield energy cost increased from 75 to 100
3. Forcefield energy cost increased from 100 to 150
4. Korea.
5. Forcefield energy cost increased from 150 to 201
edit: Actually I think it's pretty unlikely we'll see anything that would qualify as a nerf to FF, it's strong, but it's not that great.
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force field cost to 75
starting mana of sentry 75
max mana 300
mana regeneration x1.5
That should fix everything
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On April 21 2010 06:30 -orb- wrote:
The number of people suggesting force field be up to 75 energy is depressing.
I'd like to see you people hold off an all-in speedling rush without being able to warp in sentries to force field..
You'd basically be 100% forced to wall in every single game and then forced to go straight to immortals in the possibility that they go roaches (since if you don't have the immortals your wall will get shot down and you'll lose your pylons/gateways).
It will make every single PvZ the exact same strategy for the protoss.
Make an upgrade to start with +25 energy available at the cybercore, make it relatively cheap and short time (100/75/50 maybe?)
Thus you can do your current build, if you see all-in lings, you wall ramp with zealots long enough to get a sentry out for 25 seconds, then you get this upg in time to hold off all-n roaches, easy...
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1. Forcefield cooldown increased
2. Broodlord health decreased
3. increase reaper buildtime or price
u say 5 but this will be the only ones sry! xDDD
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On April 21 2010 07:40 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 06:30 -orb- wrote:
The number of people suggesting force field be up to 75 energy is depressing.
I'd like to see you people hold off an all-in speedling rush without being able to warp in sentries to force field..
You'd basically be 100% forced to wall in every single game and then forced to go straight to immortals in the possibility that they go roaches (since if you don't have the immortals your wall will get shot down and you'll lose your pylons/gateways).
It will make every single PvZ the exact same strategy for the protoss. making it 75 energy would smooth the entire game while keeping 50 would only be good for this argument sorry but the change is much more important than ur window of timing to defend a speedling rush its better if they change it to 75 and compensates it by buffing toss or nerfing zerg so tosses can defend vs speedling alling. i dont know how exactly u would do that but i dont know pvz in general but the argument of keeping it on 50 is ridiculous here besides terran already gotta wallin to stop zerg rushes too, and we cant even wallin with supply depots anymore because baneling owns it. but i agree its ridiculous that u have to wallin every game just to be safe vs zerg Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 07:38 summerloud wrote:
then toss doesnt have any single ground unit that doesnt require upgrades to perform well thats pretty much bs seeing how toss almost never upgrade anything in the early game or early-midgame while terran and zerg r upgrading all throughout the game
I could not agree with you more.
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nerfing forcefield is stupid as shit for it would really fuck up the balance of early game P. I think the other races just need better ways to deal with mass forcefields (assuming they are indeed imba which I'm not so sure). Easiest way would be to lower gas cost on ghost a bit so EMPing is easier for Terran (also helps vs mass storm), and maybe changing fungal growth to make any affected caster unable to cast a spell while caught in it (which might actually make it TOO good lol and would need to be nerfed in other ways....welll either way you get my point )
Personally I prefer adding in new ways for the races to deal with it (such as giving zerg a proper SNIPE unit like how mutas were able to snipe templar back in BW) instead of just nerfing it, since forcefield micro is really the most fun thing in SC2 right now (and really hte only thing making it balanced for protoss)
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1. Force field cast range changed to 5.5.
2. Marauder shell upgrade cost reduces to 75/75, 15 second faster research time.
3. Stim upgrade cost changed to 125/125, 10 second faster research time.
4. Immortal Cost increased by 25 gas.
5. Force field changed to channeling.
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On April 21 2010 07:42 Reno(TE) wrote:
force field cost to 750
starting mana of sentry 750
max mana 3000
mana regeneration x15
That should fix everything
fixed your numbers for you!
in seriousness though, sentry is simply too powerful if you actually know how to use forcefield, either forcefield needs a nerf, or sentry needs to have it's attack nerfed into oblivion.
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On April 21 2010 07:46 Ideas wrote:nerfing forcefield is stupid as shit for it would really fuck up the balance of early game P. I think the other races just need better ways to deal with mass forcefields (assuming they are indeed imba which I'm not so sure). Easiest way would be to lower gas cost on ghost a bit so EMPing is easier for Terran (also helps vs mass storm), and maybe changing fungal growth to make any affected caster unable to cast a spell while caught in it (which might actually make it TOO good lol and would need to be nerfed in other ways....welll either way you get my point ) Personally I prefer adding in new ways for the races to deal with it (such as giving zerg a proper SNIPE unit like how mutas were able to snipe templar back in BW) instead of just nerfing it, since forcefield micro is really the most fun thing in SC2 right now (and really hte only thing making it balanced for protoss)
Actually, if forcefield is just reduced in range significantly protoss will have to actually play the positioning fight, instead of just balling up and creating their own battlefield with force fields.
This would not nerf it's ability to wall in a protoss against early cheese, but it would prevent the stupidness that happens with it once you get 6+ sentries + colossus
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1) Immortal Hardened Shield now requires an upgrade which can be researched at the Robotics Support Bay for 150/150
2) Reactor build time decreased to 30 seconds from 50.
3) Marauder build time decreased to 25 seconds from 30.
4) Force Field requires 75 energy instead of 50.
5) Spawn Larva cooldown time increased to 50 seconds from 40.
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1) Hatcheries may no longer have more than 7 spawned lava at a time
2) Force field energy up to 75
3) Broodlord rate of fire reduced by 15%
4) Siege tank cost reduced to 100 gas
5) Stalkers can no longer blink past destructible rocks.
BTW this is a cool contest, it would be awesome if a Beta Key was given to anyone who could get all 5 changes exactly. Maybe TL could put up one of their 500 keys.
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1.- psi storm now deals damage to air units.
2.- Mutalisk damage decreased by 5, and shooting rate decreased by 0.2 s
3.- Force field now have 500 hp and can be targeted by air
4.- Viking transform speed increased by 0,2 s
5.- Broodlings from broodlords doesnt benefit by ground upgrades
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1) Marauder gets 10 more health and stim is removed from marauder
2) Sentrys force field energy cost to 75, sentry spawn with 75 energy
3) Banshee cost increased by 25/25
4) Roach damage lowered by 2
5) Phoenix damage increased from 5+5 light to 7+3 light
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I guess I'm not too competent because I know like nothing about PvZ state atm, but Toss units feel nothing like "weak" especially early to early mid. Also storm may not be very good against Roaches/Marauders, but it absolutely decimates any Marine heavy composition, to a point where Rines become completely unviable, and I find it impossible to not lose shitloads of units in any confrontation where I don't get a perfect EMP on templars, and even then P is able to cast 1-3 storms and rip through easily. So imo storm may only be nerfed at this point in the game, probably indirectly though. P units seem to have so much utility, and P army feels too flexible with just Gateway heavy compositions, also most upgrades add utility, like Blink or Range upgrade on Collosus, while T's upgrades make unviable units useful. You cannot skip Stim because of insufficient DPS, Marauders cant hold Zealots or Stalker harras without Shells, Marines get one hitted without shields, Reapers cant run from Stalkers without speed upgrade, Tanks got buffed but still kinda lose utility without Siege etc etc.
Also about Sentries - this unit BEGS for a nerf, Forcefields can totaly break an army, and even though the ability feels SO cool and can really shine in skilled players hands, it should never go down to "I got a very good FFs, I win now". Also, have you tried Zealot/Sentry push with hallucinated Collosi as meat shields? as T you practically HAVE to catch P midway to your base and kite/slow him down, or he will just walk over you with this and warpgates.
TvP feels bit to hard but is interresting imo at this point, approaching balance from P>T side imo.
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Zerg:
-Queen: Spawn Larvae ability now spawns 3 additional larvae, down from 4
-Larvae at a Hatchery/Lair/Hive will now expire after existing for 60/90/120 seconds respectively. Rules governing innate larva generation by the structure unchanged.
Protoss:
-Immortal: damage reduced to 20+20(+2 upgrades) vs. armored, down from 20+ 30(+3 upgrades).
-Mothership: build time reduced to 120, down from 160, shots fired increased from 6 to 8, acceleration increased to 1 from .3125
Terran:
-Siege Tank: Cost reduced to 150/75, down from 150/100
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1. Rouches now have the ability to heal each other while on creep. To make ZvZ even more fun.
2. By popular demand Zerglings were renamed to TheLittleOnes.
3. Thor redesigned. From now on hes unable to move at all. Act as building but can be carried by dropships.
4. Raven now requires an additional Tier 3 building with tech lab attached. As compensation we added an another useless abilty to his arsenal with 195 research time and 350 gas cost.
5. Destructible rock now attacks back when attacked. Why not lol.
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SCV HP increased to 60
Force field cannot be cast where enemy units are present
Reduce the effect of spawn larva (less total per ability)
Broodlords no longer spawn broodlings on attack, but the attack does slightly more damage.
Supply drop now adds hit points to the supply depot.
In addition I think much larger maps will be added, maps without a huge border of unpassable terrain, a new zerg unit, an increase in the withdraw rate of creep, fortress style team maps (but without additional resources in the base), and maps with expansions containing varying numbers of minerals and gas.
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Sentry: Force Field changed to a channel ability, cost 5 energy/s (75 energy in 15s), duration depend on energy spent. The Sentry cannot attack while channeling.
Immortal: damage reduced to 20+20.
Marauder: Damage changed to 8+12. Concussive Shells cost reduced to 50/50.
Zergling: Attack speed increase by 10%.
Roach: Supply increased to 2, armor increased to 2, damage reduce to 13 from 16.
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1: forcefield cost more energy
2: hydralisk movement speed increase
3: Viking take longer to build
4: phoenix build faster
5: tank HP increased
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1. stalkers will no longer be able to blink past the rocks
2. force field - nerfed. But increasing the energy cost wont fix the problem.
3. immortal - nerfed (maybe)
4. banshee - nerfed
5. queen spawn larva - nerfed
6. ultralisk - buffed
7. collosus - nerfed (probably the range upgrade)
8. broodlord - nerfed
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1. Terran SCV +5 hitpoints (45 to 50)
2. Sentry force field cost from 50 to 75
3. Terran Marauder research time of Concussive Shells down by 20 seconds
4. Spawn Larva from Queen reduced 3 (down from 4)
5. Protoss Void Ray Build Time 70 seconds (up from 60 seconds)
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1. forcefield energy increased to 75
2. Immortal harden shield removed OR immortal damage nerfed to 20+15
3. phoenix build time decreased
4. Mothership gains that ability where it can teleport to friendly structures again
5. marauders stim pack changed to take away 20% life (or changed in a similar way) rather than 10hp.
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Addition: Lurkers reintroduced?
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On April 21 2010 03:26 MorroW wrote:
why r ppl excepting tank to get buffed? i think that unit is absolutely amazing in tvz and tvt
i think its more likely that the toss units r good vs the tank rather than the tank being a bad unit imo
two points here, MorroW,
1) I am inclined to agree with your analysis of the tank. I have seen many games where Siege tanks have performed admirably vs T & Z, and even some TvP where tanks have at least justified their tech/training cost (though they appear by no means a dominant unit TvP, being largely used for expansion defence rather than an as a mainline agressive unit).
2) Thou art on 1336 posts.
Choose thy next words wisely 
Kev
PS
On April 21 2010 07:56 No_eL wrote:
1.- psi storm now deals damage to air units.
I believe that Psi storm does indeed deal damage to air units.
If you are having trouble hitting air units with your storms, remember that you must target *the ground BELOW* the air units you are attempting to hit, in order to deal damage with the storm in SC2 [See also: Timmy the Templar & the curse of the third dimension]
[edited to correct typo and address another post]
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1. force field can now be attacked
2. immortal build time increased to 50 seconds
3. marauder slow crap now only cost 50/50
4. removed dark templars and added blademasters instead
5. renamed protoss to orc
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I like the idea of "sentry starts with 75 energy, force field costs 75 energy to cast." Not sure if Guardian Shield Aura would be too strong...
On April 21 2010 07:56 No_eL wrote:
1.- psi storm now deals damage to air units.
2.- Mutalisk damage decreased by 5, and shooting rate decreased by 0.2 s
3.- Force field now have 500 hp and can be targeted by air
4.- Viking transform speed increased by 0,2 s
5.- Broodlings from broodlords doesnt benefit by ground upgrades
Are these changes serious or is that a troll?
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On April 21 2010 09:47 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 07:56 No_eL wrote:
1.- psi storm now deals damage to air units.
2.- Mutalisk damage decreased by 5, and shooting rate decreased by 0.2 s
3.- Force field now have 500 hp and can be targeted by air
4.- Viking transform speed increased by 0,2 s
5.- Broodlings from broodlords doesnt benefit by ground upgrades
Are these changes serious or is that a troll? Well lets see,
-- I'm pretty sure psi storm already hits air.
-- Making forcefield have hp and be targeted by both ground and air would make so you can just cast it anywhere and even when not blocking pathing it would be good. 500hp here means you can bring 1 sentry with you and it absorbes more damage then a Terran throwing all their SCVs at the enemy force would (and that's just 1 forcefield). Arguably this is bad because it would mean forcefield would overlap with the Hallucinate (Probes) ability which does the same thing (generates a mini probe army for you).
-- Nerf to Muta would mean they do now 4 damage or something like that, so basically means he wants Toss to be able to defend with just guardian shield a entire probe line.
Its a standard "nerf the races I don't play, buff the race I play" kind of opinion but its in no way a troll. Just check the previous pages, some epic trolls were posted earlier (they are pretty funny).
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1) Phoenix damage changed from 5+5 to light (x2) to 8 + 7 to light (x2)
2) Forcefield changed to 75 energy up from 50
3) Marauders health reduced to 100, down from 125
4) +1 Infestor neural parasite range, and tentacle moves faster
5) Banelings damage changed from 20(+2) + 15(+2) to light, to 20(+5) + 15(+0) to light.
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Interesting thread.
I've got some input for it.
CHECK OUT THESE CHANGES:
PATCH 9:
- nuke explosions are now the same color as the player's color
- terratron added by popular request
- thors now look even more ridiculous while under a dropship
- marauders have been changed to be more racially sensitive
- terran advisor can be changed between default, angry scott, and hotter chick voice sets
- added a an 'idle mutalisk should be harassing' button similar to the idle worker button
- roaches make a gurgling sound when they die to hellions or colossi
- zerglings can ride on the back of an ultralisk
- zealots no longer look like butlers when they run
- if a nexus gets to 100 energy, it sets on fire
- those who get the collector's edition will have collosi replaced with giant zealot statues with eye lasers
- protoss have a /taunt command, similar to terran's /dance and /cheer
- yellow duckies have been added to various maps with water
- increased gore
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On April 21 2010 10:04 Black Octopi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 09:47 FabledIntegral wrote:On April 21 2010 07:56 No_eL wrote:
1.- psi storm now deals damage to air units.
2.- Mutalisk damage decreased by 5, and shooting rate decreased by 0.2 s
3.- Force field now have 500 hp and can be targeted by air
4.- Viking transform speed increased by 0,2 s
5.- Broodlings from broodlords doesnt benefit by ground upgrades
Are these changes serious or is that a troll? Well lets see, -- I'm pretty sure psi storm already hits air. -- Making forcefield have hp and be targeted by both ground and air would make so you can just cast it anywhere and even when not blocking pathing it would be good. 500hp here means you can bring 1 sentry with you and it absorbes more damage then a Terran throwing all their SCVs at the enemy force would (and that's just 1 forcefield). Arguably this is bad because it would mean forcefield would overlap with the Hallucinate (Probes) ability which does the same thing (generates a mini probe army for you). -- Nerf to Muta would mean they do now 4 damage or something like that, so basically means he wants Toss to be able to defend with just guardian shield a entire probe line. Its a standard "nerf the races I don't play, buff the race I play" kind of opinion but its in no way a troll. Just check the previous pages, some epic trolls were posted earlier (they are pretty funny).
Exactly. It already hits air. 500 HP is retarded, there'd be no reason to attack it, in fact it'd be a buff in case it somehow distracted fire. Vikings are already insanely mobile. Mutalisks would literally be USELESS. And imo, I don't know why ppl have so much problem with the Broodlings when it'd the actual broodlord attack that rapes opponents. Each time the broodling makes contact with the enemy it does 20 dmg...
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On April 21 2010 10:14 Trozz wrote:
- thors now look even more ridiculous while under a dropship
Frankly I think the way this should work is not that the Thor is picked up by the Medivac but rather the Medivac attaches to the Thor and just allows it to fly (or hover, w/e). The Thor would not shoot, and Medivac can not heal or pickup but they become a single unit in the process with say something like 400hp or something and we get a new Arnold+Medic cockpit animation. The animation for attaching and tacking off could be very long and elaborate with the drop animation somewhat faster (obviously).
This would solve any problems with just flying around with Thors, since the extensive time to attach to the Thor would mean Thor drop would become a sort of all-in strategy, but a reasonably good break-in drop ability because of the monster hp.
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On April 21 2010 11:19 FabledIntegral wrote:
And imo, I don't know why ppl have so much problem with the Broodlings when it'd the actual broodlord attack that rapes opponents. Each time the broodling makes contact with the enemy it does 20 dmg...
I don't really pay too much attention to these things but I think units actually target the broodlings (priority). And even if they didn't they are in the way, and the closest target (or just the only one in range). Concerning the damage. Two spawn on each attack. Their attack is 4 and marine speed (I believe). They are effected by upgrades so you can expect it to be 7 when you have broodlords. They also last what, 10s? Basically those little things do 200+ damage at least, if left alone, so you have to kill them. And that's the problem, they have 30hp and are influenced by armor upgrades so with a few Broodlords you are doing little more then just killing Broodlings. They thus make it extremely hard for ground armies to face Broodlords.
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argg really want this patch to come out. Been waiting all day for it
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1) Immortals get nerf (20 + 25dam)
2) Marauders get nerf to hp (100 hp)
3) Sentry's Forcefield now have 150-200 hp
4) Raven build time decrease by 5 sec
5) Hydra get fix to 85 Hp
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On April 21 2010 06:34 iNty.sCream wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 06:30 -orb- wrote:
The number of people suggesting force field be up to 75 energy is depressing.
I'd like to see you people hold off an all-in speedling rush without being able to warp in sentries to force field..
This.
How is this different from Starcraft: Brood War? It is my understanding that the way the game is currently played, Protoss fast expands and goes forge before gateway to cannon up in case of a ling attack, effectively walling off. I believe the zergling attack in SC2 is larger and later, often with a +1 upgrade and speed. If scouted (which i know is tricky) a wall-off with a few zeals will absolutely win you the game. If the ling bust-in fails zerg loses with his late tech and semi-bad economy.
That Toss is forced to wall off on the off-chance that zerg uses this tactic (i've only tried it against Toss two or three times and always lost with it, so i'm not sure there even is a problem but I might just suck) isn't as horrible as you make it out to be. Once walling off becomes common, the ling rush will stop being used, and you'll have fast expanding zergs as the standard. Then comes the Zealot/Stalker rushes, and Zerg doesn't have a forcefield to spam. This way, you can stilll use sentries, while not being able to spam those forcefields quite so much.
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On April 21 2010 15:05 Scope wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 06:34 iNty.sCream wrote:On April 21 2010 06:30 -orb- wrote:
The number of people suggesting force field be up to 75 energy is depressing.
I'd like to see you people hold off an all-in speedling rush without being able to warp in sentries to force field..
This. How is this different from Starcraft: Brood War? It is my understanding that the way the game is currently played, Protoss fast expands and goes forge before gateway to cannon up in case of a ling attack, effectively walling off. I believe the zergling attack in SC2 is larger and later, often with a +1 upgrade and speed. If scouted (which i know is tricky) a wall-off with a few zeals will absolutely win you the game. If the ling bust-in fails zerg loses with his late tech and semi-bad economy. That Toss is forced to wall off on the off-chance that zerg uses this tactic (i've only tried it against Toss two or three times and always lost with it, so i'm not sure there even is a problem but I might just suck) isn't as horrible as you make it out to be. Once walling off becomes common, the ling rush will stop being used, and you'll have fast expanding zergs as the standard. Then comes the Zealot/Stalker rushes, and Zerg doesn't have a forcefield to spam. This way, you can stilll use sentries, while not being able to spam those forcefields quite so much.
I for one am happy that you seem to be a Brood War newb + Show Spoiler +(no offense, just from the wording you made it seem as if you didn't play)
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the WoW infestation is a terrible one indeed.
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I like a few ideas here:
- FF costs 75 energy, sentries start with 75 enegy
- Marauder HP decreased to 100
- Tank cost -25 gas and is 1 supply
- Broodlords now can spawn a maximum of 6 broodlings and has -25 HP
- Phoenix damage change to 7+3
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That's my bet, in addition I'd like to see:
- Reaper cost increased by 25 gas, gets +10 HP
- Queen now can only spawn 3 larva
- Hydra gets +10 HP back
- Storm area 1,75
- observer back to 25/75 and half of the build time but needs a robo bay
- zealot speed slightly increased
- hellions now shoot faster when stop after moving (less cooldown)
- DT shrine costs -50 gas and -30 seconds build time
- reactor and techlab build time back to the same amount of time (sth that prevents the all-in marine rush tough)
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I dont think this will happen but this what should
1. Corrupters tech 1 (requires flyer chamber) to deal with early air
2. phenix gets splash damage spell against air. Cost down to 100/100
3. force field requires 70 energy
4. immortal -2 attack on base
5. scanner cost down from 50 to 40
6. brood lord life decreased by 10
7. observers build faster
8. overseer cheaper.
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1. Stalker build time decrease, to deal with fast reapers.
2. Broodlord HP reduced to 225, I don't think they should be so beefy, that's the Ultralisk's job.
3. Colossus range upgrade gives the colossus range 8, the sentri + colo combo is very strong.
4. Ultralisk buffed:
-Supply 4
-Range 2
-Cost reduced to 200/200
-Head Thrust usable on massive units.
I think they need to be buffed.
5.Adrenal Glands upgrade increases the attack rate by 25%. Also I feel they need to be stronger in late game.
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1. Mines is Back
2. Lurker is Back
3. Immortal Buff is now an addon
4. Marauder hp decreased by 10
5. Sentry increased build time 10secs
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Thor will be granted an additional +1 armor, totaling of 2 armor.
Thor build time will increase from 60 to 75.
BAM!!!!!!! THOR IS HERE!!!!
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On April 21 2010 15:13 selboN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 15:05 Scope wrote:On April 21 2010 06:34 iNty.sCream wrote:On April 21 2010 06:30 -orb- wrote:
The number of people suggesting force field be up to 75 energy is depressing.
I'd like to see you people hold off an all-in speedling rush without being able to warp in sentries to force field..
This. How is this different from Starcraft: Brood War? It is my understanding that the way the game is currently played, Protoss fast expands and goes forge before gateway to cannon up in case of a ling attack, effectively walling off. I believe the zergling attack in SC2 is larger and later, often with a +1 upgrade and speed. If scouted (which i know is tricky) a wall-off with a few zeals will absolutely win you the game. If the ling bust-in fails zerg loses with his late tech and semi-bad economy. That Toss is forced to wall off on the off-chance that zerg uses this tactic (i've only tried it against Toss two or three times and always lost with it, so i'm not sure there even is a problem but I might just suck) isn't as horrible as you make it out to be. Once walling off becomes common, the ling rush will stop being used, and you'll have fast expanding zergs as the standard. Then comes the Zealot/Stalker rushes, and Zerg doesn't have a forcefield to spam. This way, you can stilll use sentries, while not being able to spam those forcefields quite so much. I for one am happy that you seem to be a Brood War newb + Show Spoiler +(no offense, just from the wording you made it seem as if you didn't play) who has done some research, touche! This is how all the new SCII people should be, so much WoW infestation atm...
You're right, I never played very much competitive Brood War (mostly campaign and nooby LAN) and I don't have a Beta Key. I watch a lot of VODs and have borrowed my neighbours key for a few days while he waits for the mac client.
Increasing Force Field energy is very viable. The metagame will sort itself out and if it doesn't, Blizzard will have the stats and change it.
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1. Queen may spawn only 3 larvas. - new upgrade in lair tech to spawn 4 larvas
2. Phoenix damage increased and build time reduced
3. FF costs 75 energy, sentries start with 75 energy. 150 energy is max
4. Siege tank armor increased by 1
5. Storm area increased
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Why do people think they are entitled to instantly warp in a unit that can immediate block off your choke?
Sentry - Energy Increase of Force Field from 50 to 75
Siege Tank - Range Increase from 13 to 14
Banshee - Damage Decrease from 12(x2) to 10(x2)
Broodlord - Morph Time Increase from 34 to 40
Ultralisk - Spawn Time Decrease from 70 to 65
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1. Marauder's concussive shells cost decreased by 15%
2. Phoenixes damage increased by 1 per shot, so 2.
3. FF get hp and are either destroyed or time out, whichever comes first.
4. Infestor's movement speed while burrowed increased by 20%
5. Siege tanks Crucio Shock Cannon attack gains + damage to armored.
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Immortal : Build Time increase from 40 to 45
Hellion : Damage changed from 8+6 to 9+5
Sentry : Forcefields now have a cooldown of 3 seconds
Ultralisk: Collision size decreased a bit
Zergling: Adrenal Glades now increase attack speed be 25%
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1. Zergling and Roach change slots and cost, Roaches nerfed to become light armored low hp useless massable units while zerglings become buffed and size increased so they can effectivly take roachs place.
2. Roach den and Spawning pool also changed place to reflect this, baneling upgrade now reasearchable at the spawning pool.
3. Hive tech removed from the game, every upgrade previously requireing hive now aviable at tier 2.
4. All buildings except pylon, nexus, hatchery, command center can now only be constructed or land around each factions respective base.
5. Immortals no longer take damage while they have shields to properly reflect lore.
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1. Psy storm damage increased by 10 for the same period of time thus forcing terrans to split mm armys more perfect.
2. Sentry : Forcefield cooldown of 1.25 sec., giving them +5 HP and +5 Shield though.
3. Roach : HP decreased by 10.
4. Zerg infestor : Fungal Growth has to be researched.
5. SCV : HP back to 60. come on now.
I am a terran player, can you see that ?
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i fucking hate this thread
i keep seeing patch notes in the sidebar and think a patch is coming
every time
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Protoss:
Immortal nerf (build time increase)
Phoenix buff (+ base damage)
Force field costs more energy
Zerg
Broodlord nerf (broodling spawn time increased or make them to cost minerals, carrier style)
Roach nerf (-hp)
Queen buff anti air so it can deal with void ray rush
Ultralisk Buff (less cost or quicker build time?))
Terran
OC buff (supply drop gives supply +hp, scan costs less energy)
Planetary Fortess buff (+air weapon)
Helions buff (+hp)
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No one is going to get this.
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1) Immortal hardened shields require an upgade (at the cybercore for 100/100/80 sec)
2) banshee damage reduced by 2 per shot
3) Forcefield requires research from templar archives, 100/100/80 sec
4) Marine damage increased by 1
5) Ultralisk starts with upgraded move speed
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1.) The energy required to cast Forcefield was increased to 70 up from 50
2.)Marauder Stim health cost increased to 30
3.) Buildings no longer take bonus damage from all units
4.) Hydralisk health increased to 85
5.)Immortal's damage reduced by 2
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1.Force field, reduce size and/or duration.
2.Immortal dmg reduced to 20+24. Build time increased.
3.Reaper healt increased +10.
4.Charge cooldown reduced.
5.Orbital Command build time increased.
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1.Ultralisk get +0.1 move speed.
2.Warp gate cost + 50/50.
3Force field, cost +5energy.
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1. Force Field now requires 60 energy and maximum energy of sentry decreased to 180, also force field is now attackable with 120 hp and psionic armor. (Takes no extra damage)
2. Immortal damage reduced to 20+23 to armored.
3. Stalker damage changed to 10+6 to armored.
4. Reaper health increased by 10 and its build time increased by 15 seconds.
5. Ultralisk starts with upgraded move speed.
6. Phoenix can hit to the ground now with 6+1 to light damage.
7. Broodlord's spawn broodling ability on attack removed.
8. Infestor's Neural Parasite ability no longer channeled but its range reduced to 4 radius and energy increased to 100.
9. Infestor's moving while burrowed removed.
10. Infestor's Fungral Growth ability changed to 6 radius in range and 150 energy.
11. Planetary Fortress can only be repaired by 5 scv's at the same time.
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1) Concussive Shells upgrade time and cost reduced.
2) Immortal build time increased
3) Neural Parasite range increased
4) Reactor build time reduced
5) Fixed splash radius for Planetary Fortress and Heat-Seeking Missile
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1. Ultralisk now can move on top of own/allied units.
2. Siege Tank supply cost reduced to 2.
3. Viking transformation delay reduced by 0.2s (arbitary).
4. Hardend Shield upgrade cost 175/50(arbitary) research 40s(arbitary), put into cybernetics core, researchable once robotics is finished.
5. Phoenix can now be upgraded to either AoE or Gravity Beam mode.
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Dude, this thread is gonna kill me someday!
Every time I look on the SC2-Section and see "Patch" as one of the Topics on top, I'm totally hyped - but then I realize it's this Thread. ^^'
@Topic: Atm, I think this Patch is gonna be a big one - why else would they announce it so early and then take so long to actually patch SC2? With that being said, I think we could actually see some bigger changes:
to Units that don't get used so often, like Archon, Mothersip, Phoenix, Ultralisk etc.
Also, I think they'll do sth about Storm (make it better again), EMP (so that you can actually see a EMP-Missile that goes slow and accelerates, just like in SC:BW), Immortals, Marauders and Roaches.
I hope they'll also buff Terran-Mech a bit...
Maybe they'll also do sth about the Hard-Counter-System and further reduce bonus-DMG but increase standard-DMG of certain Units, like Immortal, Marauder etc. Maybe they'll also add a new Armor-Type for structures.
I also hope for some new Maps obviously! xD
If we're extremely lucky - we'll also see changes in the highground-system... Hopefully they'll be worth the wait. :S
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1. Marauder shell upgrade cost reduced.
2. Planetary Fortress splash damage radius tweaked (splash damage reduced from 150% to 100%)
3. Hunter Seeker Missile splash damage radius tweaked (changed to 1.6 100%, 2.0, 50% and 2.4 25%).
4. Archon Splash Damage radius increased.
5. Reaper production time increased.
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No, but I see where Protoss users are getting this whole "monster buff" idea. When you look at patches 6 and 7, Protoss got seriously nerfed everywhere but the Photon Cannon and the Void Ray damage (depending on how you look at it). I think this whole business is just a way of saying "goddammit give us a freaking buff already"
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1.immortal damage nerf
2.pheonix damage buff (maybe splash)
3.siege tank damage buff
4.brood lord damage or attack speed nerf
5.new infestor abillity
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1. Roach hp changed to 125, damage changed to 12 + 4 vs light, burrowed speed and regeneration reverted to previous values.
2. New unit: Medic, stats as sc1 medic, can heal units while inside a bunker or a dropship (medivac changed to dropship)
3. Marauder hp changed to 80
4. Immortal bonus damage reduced by 10
5. Siege tank cost changed to 150/100 and 2 supply
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1. Fleet Beacon cost + build time decreased.
2. Forcefield mana cost increased
3. Marauder damage changed to do more base damage, less +bonus to armored.
4. Boost to hellion hp
5. Larvae cap reduced
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1. Concussive shells upgrade time and price reduced.
2. Forcefield time reduced
3. Brood Lord armor or broodling nerf
4. Terran mech buff of some kind
5. Random protoss nerf that nobody understands
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TERRAN
Hellion hit points increased by 10.
Banshee attack range reduced by 1.
Concussive shells research time reduced by 15 seconds.
Supply drop energy cost reduced by 10.
A bug concerning the splash damage of the Planetary Fortress has been fixed.
PROTOSS
Force field energy cost increased by 10.
Phoenix base damage increased by 2.
Mothership speed increased and build time decreased by 15 seconds.
ZERG
Ultralisk attack range increased by 1.
New Unit: Lurker
MISC
All structures no longer have the "Armored" armor type.
"Player will be revealed" and "Player will no longer be revealed" messages will no longer show. Reveal time increased by 30 seconds.
Destructible rocks on Kulas Ravine and Blistering Sands have been adjusted so that vision of higher ground is completely blocked from the lower ground (no more blinking up without observers).
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1. Void Ray building increased from 60 to 65.
2. Hellion health points increased form 90 to 100.
3. Reactor cost increased from 50 minerals and 50 gas to 50 minerals and 100 gas.
4. Transform to warpgate duration increased from 10 to 15.
5. Hydralisk den cost decreased from 150 minerals and 150 gas to 150 minerals and 100 gas.
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1. Force field duration decreased from 15s to 12s
2. Siege tank cost changed from 150/125 to 150/100
3. Overlord speed cost changed from 50/50 to 100/100
4. Roach hp is decreased from 145 to 125
5. Dark templar cost is decreased from 125/125 to 125/100
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On April 21 2010 07:06 summerloud wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 07:01 PGHammer wrote:On April 21 2010 06:14 GsOne wrote:
People that want to buff Stalkers obviously never tried any harras with them. Stalkers come equipped with monstrous range (effectively "1 better than your units"), are very fast and not clumsy like Dragoons, shoot very fast and have rapidly regenerating shields. Terran has like no way to deal with even one stalker just firing one, two shots at his units and then running away to regenerate, at least not until Concussive Shells are researched.
Also, stalkers + warpgates stop like any harras anywhere on the map, something like 4+ banshees is required to deal damage, and Reapers cannot even run from them.
I'd like to see something like starting speed reduced, blink also upgrades it to current value, base range 5 + upgrade at core, maybe some dmg buff to balance it out in PvZ. Two nerfs seem bit too much obiously. On the other hand, Stalkers got buffed while Marauders and Roches got nerfed, and they didn't start at 8 + 6 without a reason. That's exactly why I predicted the opposite for Stalkers (a nerf as opposed to a buff). Right now, it's easier (and earlier) to build Stalkers than Immortals (which is problematical, since Immortals don't have the capabilities of Stalkers, and are the replacement for Dragoons). In short, Immortals are, if anything *underpowered*, while Stalkers are overpowered. Unless you are going to buff Immortals (so there is not that wide gap power-wise between Immortals and Stalkers), then Stalkers need a nerfing. that doesnt make any sense
Oh? Then explain all the Stalker-based rushes by Protoss players.
The Stalker rush has replaced the Dragoon rush for the Protoss player in SC2 (as opposed to BW). Considering that Stalkers are later in the Protoss tech tree than Immortals (which are the stated replacement for Dragoons), why has the Stalker pretty much made Immortals irrelevant? Unless you are going to simply get RID of the Immortal, then the Stalker deserves a nerfing (and buff the Immortal at the same time) to give Immortals relevancy.
Zerg: The Roach has almost done the same thing to the Hydralisk that the Stalker has done to the Immortal (made it largely irrelevant). In fact, I'm seeing Zergling/Roach rushes where in BW I used to see Zergling/Hydralisk or Zergling/Ultralisk rushes. Unless you are going to get rid of the Hydralisk, nerf the Roach. (That was probably why the Roach got nerfed; it was encroaching on Hydralisk turf.)
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1. A Protoss unit will receive a slight nerf
2. A Terran unit of marginal use will be buffed but will remain unused
3. A Zerg unit's stats will be changed but nothing will change about how boring Zerg is
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1. Zerglings buffed so they can refill their BW role.
2. Mutalisks able to stack as long as their numbers are less than 13.
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1. Void Ray building increased from 60 to 65.
2. Hellion health points increased form 90 to 100.
3. Reactor cost increased from 50 minerals and 50 gas to 50 minerals and 100 gas.
4. Transform to warpgate duration increased from 10 to 15.
5. Hydralisk den cost decreased from 150 minerals and 150 gas to 150 minerals and 100 gas.
Don't agree with any of these
1. No point.
2. 90 is quete a lot, Hellion is poor not because of his hp.
3.Now this is just stupid, new rax cost 150 minerals, and reactor should cost 50 minerals and 100 gas?!? don't want to be rude, but start using you head
3. What? Why?
4. Don't see a reason why this should be changed.
Please explain why do you think these changes should be made.
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I just don't think changes will be that big.
-Void ray build time is to help ZvP, it's not much, but it's something.
-Hellion is underused and I guess will receive a small buff.
-Hmm I agree, this would probably unbalance the game... wrong choice^^ I think I was rather aiming at making ghosts academy a bit more costly in gas (from 50 to 100)
-Still too fast warp gates, buffing the tech could work too, but this is more interesting
-Hydra's should come into play a bit faster imo (Z is too weak vs air)
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On April 22 2010 01:53 DarkShaman wrote:
I just don't changes will be that big.
-Void ray build time is to help ZvP, it's not much, but it's something.
-Hellion is underused and I guess will receive a small buff.
-Hmm I agree, this would probably unbalance the game... wrong choice^^ I think I was rather aiming at making ghosts academy a bit more costly in gas (from 50 to 100)
-Still too fast warp gates, buffing the tech could work too, but this is more interesting
-Hydra's should come into play a bit faster imo (Z is too weak vs air)
- Hellion underused?
- Z weak VS Air?
yeah - right....
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On April 21 2010 04:20 gogogadgetflow wrote:
5. Increase phoenix movement speed, armor, damage, and allow them to levitate entire armies. Give them passive cloaking and let them shoot flame missiles which light bio units afire and saps their hp (like irradiate). When you kill a phoenix you create an indestructible pile of ash that will morph into a larger and even more powerful phoenix, which can only be countered by Flash.
I'm laughing at this for like 30 minutes for some reason. Pretty good.
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1) Reaper now require engineering bay to be built
2) Reaper build time reduced
3) HSM damage reduced but damages a wider area
4) Forcefield now costs 75 energy
5) Immortals do more base damage with a reduction on heavy armor bonus
There's my guesses which will be wrong
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1. Void Ray building increased from 60 to 65.
2. Hellion health points increased form 90 to 100.
3. Reactor cost increased from 50 minerals and 50 gas to 50 minerals and 100 gas.
4. Transform to warpgate duration increased from 10 to 15.
5. Hydralisk den cost decreased from 150 minerals and 150 gas to 150 minerals and 100 gas.
Don't agree with any of these
1. No point.
2. 90 is quete a lot, Hellion is poor not because of his hp.
3.Now this is just stupid, new rax cost 150 minerals, and reactor should cost 50 minerals and 100 gas?!? don't want to be rude, but start using you head
3. What? Why?
4. Don't see a reason why this should be changed.
Please explain why do you think these changes should be made.
i can explain for him - its because he is a zerg player
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This turned into a wishlist more than a prediction...
Protoss
1. ForceField energy 75
2. Sentries starting energy 75
3. Immortal armor damage decreased to +15, regular increased +5 (less heavy mech counter, less useless against zeals/lings)
4. Dark Shrine build time reduced
5. Dark Templar gas cost reduced (dts show up in games again?)
6. Archon gain splash damage, increase range, retain feedback ability (archons less useless for extremely expensive cost and EMP susceptibility, now have EMP counter)
7. Phoenix rate of fire increase +light dmg +2 (better muta counter)
8. Void ray building damage reduced (Possible? - idea making it more effective in a battle but less as harassment/building destroy)
Zerg
1. Corruptor rate of fire increase (less terrible)
2. Can't exceed 9 larvae per hatch
3. Spawn Larvae mana cost -> 50
4. Transfusion mana cost -> 25
5. Queen speed increased slightly when off creep
6. Queen mana regen 1.75x
7. Queen mana pool increased to 150
8. Queen anti-air +2 dmg (make queen pushes a more viable strat, increase ability to counter early banshee harass)
9. Spawn larvae build time 1.25x slower (to coincide with slower mana regen, queen now gets a little extra mana each larvae spawn)
10. Roach HP dropped by 15 (more micro required, less boring ZvZ)
11. Hydra air attack 12->7 light 3 armored (mutas more viable in ZvZ. Maybe +massive dmg)
12. Hydra move speed increase as upgrade
13. Ultras move speed and armor upgrade cost decreased -> 100/100
14. Ultra cost down to 250/150, build time to 60
Terran
1. EMP only takes 75 shields and 50% energy
2. EMP requires research upgrade
3. Supply Drop from CC 50 -> 25 energy
4. Banshee range reduced by 2
5. Banshee A->G damage increased by 1 per rocket (try to make banshee more useful in combat, reduce harass slightly)
6. All terran units 75% mana pool but increased regen to compensate (less susceptible to feedback)
7. Viking attack range reduced
8. Viking projeciles speed faster - but rate of fire stays the same (make them more microable)
9. Maurader hp dropped by 15 (more micro required, less boring unit)
10. Reaper rate of fire increased
11. Reaper now benefits from combat shield
12. Reaper speed upgrade gone
13. Tech lab build time->50
14. Reaper build time increased (try to make reaper more useful in combat, reduce early harass slightly)
15. BattleCruisers now have movespeed + range increase as a 100/100 upgrade
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1. concussive shell upgrade time decreased
2. Forcefield energy cost increased
3. Immortals will get nerfed
4. SCV's will get a hitpoint buff
5. mutalisks will get nerfed slightly
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Concussive shell upgrade cost decreased to 50/50
Concussive shell research time decreased to 50 seconds
Roach burrowed move speed increased from 1.4 to 1.8
Broodlord base damage dcreased from 20 to 15
Zerglings can now jump up cliffs with a hive level upgrade
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So far this has just been a restrained wish list of what I want nerfed and what I want buffed. Why not go all the way? Let's see... Wings animation added from Metabolic Boost speed upgrade now allows all Zerglings to fly!
Seriously, a nerf to Force Field by increasing casting cost to 75 or make it destructable with 150HP? Really? You'd really spend 75 energy on a bubble that just sits there for 15 seconds? The thing doesn't even fire back! Unlike of course the Auto Turret which hits pretty good, HAS 150HP and lasts 3 MINUTES all for 50 energy! Really?!
Really liked this one though:
On April 21 2010 03:43 iounas wrote:SCVs can no longer mine minerals Thors have ability to mine minerals and bring whole patch to cc zerg buildings can burrow sentry shield reflects damage to kill attackers collosus can retract legs and fly when a player builds a mothership and wins "humiliation" sound from quake is played marine has an ability to ride friendly zerglings zerglings have an ability to propel themselves up clifs by farting added disco ball to nexus to speed up probe mining rate Void ray now says "chargin mah lazer" and model changed to thispsi storm now heals enemy units replaced carrier interceptors with flying zealots broodlords now spawn carriers Every time player is under supply as protoss Artanis kills a kitten added ability to protoss buildings to disintegrate into the void with -1000% costs recouped
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Woah, that's weird. I've never seen another Fwiffo before! :D
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On April 22 2010 06:44 MasterFwiffo wrote:
Woah, that's weird. I've never seen another Fwiffo before! :D
Star Control 2?
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I would like to see this change to off set the value of spawn larva.
Spawning Pool Upgrade: Larva spawn 3 zerglings, cost increased from 50 to 75, cost 75/75, 90-120 research, requires liar.
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1) Maurader slow upgrade decreased in cost by 50/50
2) Ghost snipe range increase by +2
3) Zergling melee attack rate increased by 0.2
4) Reaper requires player to own a factory to build.
5) Banshee decrease in DPS.
Galaxy editor released!
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1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches.
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1. Range decrease on Marauders
2. Setries HP increase
3. Storm damage increase.
4. Broodlords damage decrease.
5. Terran can no longer sell bunkers lol
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1. Increase Immortal build time
2. Make concussive shells 50/50 cost
3. Colossi upgraded ranged decreased to 8
4. Force field energy cast increased.
5. Slight increase in ht storm radius.
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1. terran barrack dual build adon decreased time to build
2. carrier hit points increased
3. planatery fortress splash damage fixed
4. engineering bay or missle turret build time decreased
5. sentinal build time decreased like 5 or so seconds
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I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally
It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose.
On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches.
pretty much
don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf
I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP.
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17. Probes' mining ability now has to be researched.
18. Zerg drones' mutation ability now has to be researched.
19. Terran SCVs' HP decreased to 5.
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On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. Show nested quote +On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP.
u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba.
u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle?
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On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle?
That's why I think it would be a good idea for Orb to try the other two races more often. IT would give him a more balanced opinion. He needs to know what feels wrong about protoss from the other races' perspective.
That said, I think Concussive sheel and Spawn infested terran needs to be changed with something else.
I would make Concussive shell reduce armor instead of slowing, and I would have Parasite spawn broodlings at the unit's death.
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1. 5 SVC's can now be combined to make a MEGAMULE
2. Marine Stimpack renamed to Energy Drink to keep KeSpa out of blizzard's ASS.
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On April 22 2010 00:47 PGHammer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2010 07:06 summerloud wrote:On April 21 2010 07:01 PGHammer wrote:On April 21 2010 06:14 GsOne wrote:
People that want to buff Stalkers obviously never tried any harras with them. Stalkers come equipped with monstrous range (effectively "1 better than your units"), are very fast and not clumsy like Dragoons, shoot very fast and have rapidly regenerating shields. Terran has like no way to deal with even one stalker just firing one, two shots at his units and then running away to regenerate, at least not until Concussive Shells are researched.
Also, stalkers + warpgates stop like any harras anywhere on the map, something like 4+ banshees is required to deal damage, and Reapers cannot even run from them.
I'd like to see something like starting speed reduced, blink also upgrades it to current value, base range 5 + upgrade at core, maybe some dmg buff to balance it out in PvZ. Two nerfs seem bit too much obiously. On the other hand, Stalkers got buffed while Marauders and Roches got nerfed, and they didn't start at 8 + 6 without a reason. That's exactly why I predicted the opposite for Stalkers (a nerf as opposed to a buff). Right now, it's easier (and earlier) to build Stalkers than Immortals (which is problematical, since Immortals don't have the capabilities of Stalkers, and are the replacement for Dragoons). In short, Immortals are, if anything *underpowered*, while Stalkers are overpowered. Unless you are going to buff Immortals (so there is not that wide gap power-wise between Immortals and Stalkers), then Stalkers need a nerfing. that doesnt make any sense Oh? Then explain all the Stalker-based rushes by Protoss players. The Stalker rush has replaced the Dragoon rush for the Protoss player in SC2 (as opposed to BW). Considering that Stalkers are later in the Protoss tech tree than Immortals (which are the stated replacement for Dragoons), why has the Stalker pretty much made Immortals irrelevant? Unless you are going to simply get RID of the Immortal, then the Stalker deserves a nerfing (and buff the Immortal at the same time) to give Immortals relevancy. Zerg: The Roach has almost done the same thing to the Hydralisk that the Stalker has done to the Immortal (made it largely irrelevant). In fact, I'm seeing Zergling/Roach rushes where in BW I used to see Zergling/Hydralisk or Zergling/Ultralisk rushes. Unless you are going to get rid of the Hydralisk, nerf the Roach. (That was probably why the Roach got nerfed; it was encroaching on Hydralisk turf.)
lol wut
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On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle?
So toss throws down a bunch of spells at the start of a fight... so? Think of ZvT lategame back in brood war. Tons of dark swarms were thrown down at every fight. Albeit less in number, but in area that's a shitton more area the terran literally CANNOT fight in.
This is why I call you people retards. You clearly don't understand the game and think that if any race has any ability to get an advantage through good micro it must be shenanigans.
On April 23 2010 02:06 Tdelamay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle? That's why I think it would be a good idea for Orb to try the other two races more often. IT would give him a more balanced opinion. He needs to know what feels wrong about protoss from the other races' perspective. That said, I think Concussive sheel and Spawn infested terran needs to be changed with something else. I would make Concussive shell reduce armor instead of slowing, and I would have Parasite spawn broodlings at the unit's death.
I do play the other races, but keep spewing bullshit because you don't know anything about me. I play random on an alt account, and the difference now with force field is that you actually have to pay attention to your army positioning.
OH NO QQ I HAVE TO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION TO MY ARMY INSTEAD OF 1A'ING?
God it's like you people want to play an interactive movie
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On April 23 2010 02:06 Tdelamay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle? That's why I think it would be a good idea for Orb to try the other two races more often. IT would give him a more balanced opinion. He needs to know what feels wrong about protoss from the other races' perspective. That said, I think Concussive sheel and Spawn infested terran needs to be changed with something else. I would make Concussive shell reduce armor instead of slowing, and I would have Parasite spawn broodlings at the unit's death.
Well...orb was playing Zerg the other day in an attempt to prove to people how OP/easy it was. He did pretty much end up steam rolling everyone despite not really knowing what he was doing.
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1. Immortal Nerf
2. Colossus nerf
3. Forcefield nerf
4. Spawn Larva nerf
5. Tank Buff
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On April 23 2010 02:06 Tdelamay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle? That's why I think it would be a good idea for Orb to try the other two races more often. IT would give him a more balanced opinion. He needs to know what feels wrong about protoss from the other races' perspective. That said, I think Concussive sheel and Spawn infested terran needs to be changed with something else. I would make Concussive shell reduce armor instead of slowing, and I would have Parasite spawn broodlings at the unit's death.
I recall him doing this on his stream. His ZvP was very dominant, I don't recall him getting a TvP match ever, and his other matchups were generally losses. Granted he was playing at like 2K ELO and the system kept giving him terran and zerg opponents so there wasn't a great sampling. I think a LZ(P) v Orb(T) showmatch would be awesome.
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On April 23 2010 02:22 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle? So toss throws down a bunch of spells at the start of a fight... so? Think of ZvT lategame back in brood war. Tons of dark swarms were thrown down at every fight. Albeit less in number, but in area that's a shitton more area the terran literally CANNOT fight in. This is why I call you people retards. You clearly don't understand the game and think that if any race has any ability to get an advantage through good micro it must be shenanigans. Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 02:06 Tdelamay wrote:On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle? That's why I think it would be a good idea for Orb to try the other two races more often. IT would give him a more balanced opinion. He needs to know what feels wrong about protoss from the other races' perspective. That said, I think Concussive sheel and Spawn infested terran needs to be changed with something else. I would make Concussive shell reduce armor instead of slowing, and I would have Parasite spawn broodlings at the unit's death. I do play the other races, but keep spewing bullshit because you don't know anything about me. I play random on an alt account, and the difference now with force field is that you actually have to pay attention to your army positioning. OH NO QQ I HAVE TO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION TO MY ARMY INSTEAD OF 1A'ING? God it's like you people want to play an interactive movie
I do watch your stream a lot, Orb. If we can't asses you appropriately, it's that you won't show to us who you really are. You are being very aggresive and I don't understand why. IT's entertaining, but sometimes I wonder if it's not also a problem for you.
Sometimes you're so upset you make your rant become true. You see it that way, you go into the game with that mindset and then you almost arrange it, maybe unconsciously, that the game concludes to prove your argument.
We may not be seeing who you really are, but we are seeing what you let us see about you. What we are telling you, is what we see.
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orb v. Morrow showmatch, go go go.
Show matches are all the rage, don't you know. Any and all disagreements are settled in Bo5's with everyone watching.
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On April 23 2010 02:31 Tdelamay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 02:22 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle? So toss throws down a bunch of spells at the start of a fight... so? Think of ZvT lategame back in brood war. Tons of dark swarms were thrown down at every fight. Albeit less in number, but in area that's a shitton more area the terran literally CANNOT fight in. This is why I call you people retards. You clearly don't understand the game and think that if any race has any ability to get an advantage through good micro it must be shenanigans. On April 23 2010 02:06 Tdelamay wrote:On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle? That's why I think it would be a good idea for Orb to try the other two races more often. IT would give him a more balanced opinion. He needs to know what feels wrong about protoss from the other races' perspective. That said, I think Concussive sheel and Spawn infested terran needs to be changed with something else. I would make Concussive shell reduce armor instead of slowing, and I would have Parasite spawn broodlings at the unit's death. I do play the other races, but keep spewing bullshit because you don't know anything about me. I play random on an alt account, and the difference now with force field is that you actually have to pay attention to your army positioning. OH NO QQ I HAVE TO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION TO MY ARMY INSTEAD OF 1A'ING? God it's like you people want to play an interactive movie I do watch your stream a lot, Orb. If we can't asses you appropriately, it's that you won't show to us who you really are. You are being very aggresive and I don't understand why. IT's entertaining, but sometimes I wonder if it's not also a problem for you. Sometimes you're so upset you make your rant become true. You see it that way, you go into the game with that mindset and then you almost arrange it, maybe unconsciously, that the game concludes to prove your argument. We may not be seeing who you really are, but we are seeing what you let us see about you. What we are telling you, is what we see.
And yet I've mentioned many times on the stream that I play random on an alternate account and even played some zerg games the other day on stream. I baited the toss into using force fields and then fell back and I actually positioned my army well when I engaged so that it didn't matter.
News flash: you actually have to pay attention before engaging your army
As for my aggression it's because I'm allergic to stupidity and 90% of the people in this thread are fucking retarded (judging by them wanting a force field nerf)
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On April 23 2010 02:22 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle? So toss throws down a bunch of spells at the start of a fight... so? Think of ZvT lategame back in brood war. Tons of dark swarms were thrown down at every fight. Albeit less in number, but in area that's a shitton more area the terran literally CANNOT fight in. This is why I call you people retards. You clearly don't understand the game and think that if any race has any ability to get an advantage through good micro it must be shenanigans. Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 02:06 Tdelamay wrote:On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle? That's why I think it would be a good idea for Orb to try the other two races more often. IT would give him a more balanced opinion. He needs to know what feels wrong about protoss from the other races' perspective. That said, I think Concussive sheel and Spawn infested terran needs to be changed with something else. I would make Concussive shell reduce armor instead of slowing, and I would have Parasite spawn broodlings at the unit's death. I do play the other races, but keep spewing bullshit because you don't know anything about me. I play random on an alt account, and the difference now with force field is that you actually have to pay attention to your army positioning. OH NO QQ I HAVE TO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION TO MY ARMY INSTEAD OF 1A'ING? God it's like you people want to play an interactive movie
you say i dont understand the game? im not even gonna comment that l<o<l i wish i could play vs u and own u hard to shut ur stupid protoss noob mouth. hell lets go sc1 iccup and settle this like real men xd
when z threw down dark swarm toss and terran had to escape, this was what they would do. swarm wasnt that effective tho in zvp as in zvt
but with force field its great vs everything, melee, ranged, zerg toss and terran. and the worst part is that u cant escape. defiler was t3 unit that u had to consume lings and make upgrades to make while ff is just a shitty 50 energy spell a sentry on t2 can make. thats why it should cost 75 energy, at least :p
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orb's worst MU is by far PvT and it's no wonder that he would be good at zerg because he has good mechanics.
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On April 23 2010 02:22 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle? So toss throws down a bunch of spells at the start of a fight... so? Think of ZvT lategame back in brood war. Tons of dark swarms were thrown down at every fight. Albeit less in number, but in area that's a shitton more area the terran literally CANNOT fight in. This is why I call you people retards. You clearly don't understand the game and think that if any race has any ability to get an advantage through good micro it must be shenanigans. Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 02:06 Tdelamay wrote:On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle? That's why I think it would be a good idea for Orb to try the other two races more often. IT would give him a more balanced opinion. He needs to know what feels wrong about protoss from the other races' perspective. That said, I think Concussive sheel and Spawn infested terran needs to be changed with something else. I would make Concussive shell reduce armor instead of slowing, and I would have Parasite spawn broodlings at the unit's death. I do play the other races, but keep spewing bullshit because you don't know anything about me. I play random on an alt account, and the difference now with force field is that you actually have to pay attention to your army positioning. OH NO QQ I HAVE TO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION TO MY ARMY INSTEAD OF 1A'ING? God it's like you people want to play an interactive movie
Are you really comparing casting in BW to casting in SC2 because thats ludicrous. Surely you must realize the difference in effort it takes to use dark swarm in BW against a terran army vs.. the difficulty it takes for protoss to spam forcefield and storm nowadays. Thats beside the fact that zerg units are slow as hell anyways when attacking (into enemy territory you know... without creep).
I think forcefield would be ok if hydra were faster and i could actually feint my control groups back and forth but they are slow as hell and its too easy to spam.
anyways nice OP here are my guesses.
1. Nerfing forcefield
2. Lurker is back (lol i wish)
3. Change in prioritization of broodlings
4. Immortal + dmg nerf
5. Tanks will cost less vespene
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On April 23 2010 02:22 -orb- wrote:
So toss throws down a bunch of spells at the start of a fight... so? Think of ZvT lategame back in brood war. Tons of dark swarms were thrown down at every fight. Albeit less in number, but in area that's a shitton more area the terran literally CANNOT fight in. You can micro out of it. You can also just run out of it. Just as you can run or out-micro HSM, PDD or kill Infestors if they mind control. What are you going to do about forcefields? You are literally at the mercy of the other player and no amount of micro is going to help you. Its even more ridiculous considering one can rush 4 sentries send them to the other guys base and prevent him from getting out until he's teched all the way up.
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Does this contest end now that the patch has leaked 
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1. Punisher Grenade buff.
2. Immortal nerf.
3. Brood lord nerf.
Wish they would rework Queen and Infestor, but seems too late for that.
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On April 23 2010 02:49 Kevmar wrote:Does this contest end now that the patch has leaked
Where has it leaked?
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I predict people will complain about the patch until the next one comes out then they will complain about that one. =)
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1) marauder concussion grenades will end up 50/50 and cost only 60 seconds upgrade time.
2) reactor build time will be decreased from 50 to 40.
3) infested terran will be removed, siphon will replace it.
4) neural parasite will have ranged increased from 7 to 9.
5) zerg pool will get a new ability called obverse incubation that allows you to build 4 zerglings per larvae.
I win.
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1 Make scv's 100 minerals and 10 gass
2 Blink ability for siege tanks
3 zerglings can hide in the water and make frog sounds
4 Mutalisk's cost now 100 minerals 25 gass and 10 fishies
5 if you attack with corrupter and build a drone in the mean time the corrupter will actually becomes a drone aswell
6 Fishies are now light biological instead of armored
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On April 23 2010 02:39 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 02:22 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle? So toss throws down a bunch of spells at the start of a fight... so? Think of ZvT lategame back in brood war. Tons of dark swarms were thrown down at every fight. Albeit less in number, but in area that's a shitton more area the terran literally CANNOT fight in. This is why I call you people retards. You clearly don't understand the game and think that if any race has any ability to get an advantage through good micro it must be shenanigans. On April 23 2010 02:06 Tdelamay wrote:On April 23 2010 01:55 MorroW wrote:On April 22 2010 08:04 -orb- wrote:I can't wait to see them nerf force field due to all you tards crying about it and then see the protoss winrate drop 5% globally It's like you people have never played protoss. Yes, as terran and as zerg (mostly as zerg because as terran l2emp) you have to actually care about your unit positioning against protoss now, but from the protoss perspective without it you just straight up lose. On April 22 2010 07:34 Ryuu314 wrote:
1. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
2. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
3. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
4. Whatever people have been whining about nerfed.
5. Some random change that's really kind of pointless but will eventually lead to people whining.
Seriously. That's been the general trend I've been seeing for the past several patches. pretty much don't forget to change every nerf to overnerf I wouldn't be surprised if they made force field require an upgrade, cost 100 energy, be channeled, and have HP. u dont have to call us retards just because we have different opinions about game balance. i think ur just a bad player because ur always complaining at how bad toss is even vs t when p was imba. u think its a good gameplay-wise that toss normally throws down 10 force fields in the start of a battle? That's why I think it would be a good idea for Orb to try the other two races more often. IT would give him a more balanced opinion. He needs to know what feels wrong about protoss from the other races' perspective. That said, I think Concussive sheel and Spawn infested terran needs to be changed with something else. I would make Concussive shell reduce armor instead of slowing, and I would have Parasite spawn broodlings at the unit's death. I do play the other races, but keep spewing bullshit because you don't know anything about me. I play random on an alt account, and the difference now with force field is that you actually have to pay attention to your army positioning. OH NO QQ I HAVE TO ACTUALLY PAY ATTENTION TO MY ARMY INSTEAD OF 1A'ING? God it's like you people want to play an interactive movie you say i dont understand the game? im not even gonna comment that l<o<l i wish i could play vs u and own u hard to shut ur stupid protoss noob mouth when z threw down dark swarm toss and terran had to escape, this was what they would do. swarm wasnt that effective tho in zvp as in zvt but with force field its great vs everything, melee, ranged, zerg toss and terran. and the worst part is that u cant escape. defiler was t3 unit that u had to consume lings and make upgrades to make while ff is just a shitty 50 energy spell a sentry on t2 can make. thats why it should cost 75 energy, at least :p
Of course you would beat me, terran is OP moron.
Let's compare the units:
Marauder in comparison with zealot:
1v1 Winner: Marauder
Costs (Minerals/Gas/Time:WarpGateCoolDown):
Marauder: 100/25/30
Zealot: 100/0/33:23
Stalker:
1v1 Winner: Marauder
Costs (Minerals/Gas/Time:WarpGateCoolDown):
Marauder: 100/25/30
Stalker: 125/50/42:32
Sentry:
1v1 Winner: Sentry
Costs (Minerals/Gas/Time:WarpGateCoolDown):
Marauder: 100/25/30
Sentry: 50/100/42:32
Immortal:
1v1 Winner: Immortal
Costs (Minerals/Gas/Time:WarpGateCoolDown):
Marauder: 100/25/30
Immortal: 250/100/50
So in other words in order to beat you I need a unit that costs 4x the gas, 2.5x the minerals, 1.667 times the time to build, and is completely useless when EMP'd.
Oh I know what you'll say, you'll say yes you have EMP but I have storm. Wrong.
Let's compare storm to EMP:
Storm:
80 damage (not stackable)
4 second duration
area of 2.25pi
EMP:
100 damage (as well as the removal of ALL energy for spellcasters)
instant
area of 4pi
Gee I wonder which is better?
Oh right....
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A good nerf to FF is to slightly decrease the range on it but keep the energy cost the same. Being completely unable to initiate a battle in any confined areas of the map is a bit unfair.
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Orb, please realise that first, its not because you're really good at the game that you can't have a biaised opinion.
Second, its not because you're really good at the game that your opinion is neccesserely true. Yes the chances of you being right is higher than that of a random nobody such as myself, but when an entire thread of people think that force field needs fixing, including some big name like morrow... At least consider that you might be wrong?
Third, if they nerf force field they can buff somewhere else to compensate. Game balance isn't really the issue here, it has more to do with gameplay. I personally do not belive force fields should be able to play such a big role in a fight (sure force field my ramp, 2-3 in the back so that I cannot run. Don't split my army so much that I have 4 units able to attack you tho.
Fourt don't compare units on a 1v1 basis... rofl
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u cant just straight up compare unit stats in a rts game, its alot more complicated than that lol thats like saying zealots r better than marines because of their stats
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Instead of just saying "nerf forcefield" I think we should look at the bigger problem here. I agree that the forcefield needs a nerf because spamming forcefields in-battle and cutting an army in half simply because you have 10 sentries mid-to-late game isn't very fair. Entire flanks can be sealed off in a pincer-strategy. However, Protoss NEED this to survive and that is why Protoss as an entire race simply needs to be reworked.
Game's in Beta, so to say whether something is to stay or go is pretty much better now than after beta and I hope they take a look into the forcefield. Simply nerfing forcefield without compensating for it in some other way would be bad for Protoss, however, as a Protoss army, I'm tired of having a significant (not most) part of my games revolve around forcefield play.
Orb's straight calling other players retards isn't really fair to the players who see the need for a change in forcefield play and failed to really explain why or how it would be feasible, but then again, its not like Blizzard is going to ask him or any of us for opinions.
If they nerf forcefields they nerf it. I'm sure Protoss will come up with some other way to stay a strong race. If it doesn't then guess what? Patch 10...
Ex: PVP holding a Protoss army at ramp of main base while teching and then basically just a rush-to-collosus gameplay is not very strategic. It's just an econ race. This happens alot in PVP and its more mind-numbing than watching Terran bulid turrets all over the map in SC1.
PVZ holding off the zergling part of an army (because Protoss needs to or else we'd just GG right there) while protoss destroys an expansion and runs away isn't a mechanic that is very fun for either player.
PVT, cutting off half the mauraders on a ramp /choke at natural expansion when Terran went for 1-base rush-strategy vs Protoss economic play and then raping half the army with "superior numbers" before the other half is allowed to engage isn't very fair either. 1-base rush should always beat a fast expand matchup or at least 60-80% of the time. Example: 14CC vs 2-gate protoss, who's suppose to win right?
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
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On April 23 2010 02:58 MorroW wrote:
u cant just straight up compare unit stats in a rts game, its alot more complicated than that lol thats like saying zealots r better than marines because of their stats
Yes it's stupid to compare one unit like marines to zealots, but when protoss literally don't have a single fucking unit that beats marauders at any even remotely reasonable level of cost efficiency there's clearly something wrong with the game.
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8748 Posts
On April 23 2010 02:58 MorroW wrote:
u cant just straight up compare unit stats in a rts game, its alot more complicated than that lol thats like saying zealots r better than marines because of their stats
To be fair, neither of you has offered anything better. Directly comparing unit stats hasn't lowered the productivity of this argument at all. A proper treatment of Force Field balance could fill a 30 page article. That's all you guys are doing is taking one paragraph here and one paragraph there from what that proper 30 page article would contain.
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i think the force field should get nerfed
i think u just want ur force field to stay imba in compensation for the marauder imba
ive been barking at marauder being too good since patch 6, i still hope they nerf that unit
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On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way.
When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over
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1) Forcefield energy cost increased to 75
2) Forcefield duration reduced to 10 seconds
3) Immortal bonus to armored reduced to +25
4) Ultralisks melee attack is now ranged
5) Nydus canal build time reduced to 15 seconds
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On April 23 2010 02:59 -orb- wrote:
Yes it's stupid to compare one unit like marines to zealots, but when protoss literally don't have a single fucking unit that beats marauders at any even remotely reasonable level of cost efficiency there's clearly something wrong with the game.
Both immortals and zealots does decently against marauders actually. (Except in low numbers if the marauders have their shell upgrade.)
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Orb vs Morrow BO5 showmatch incoming.
Seriously, kids. SC2 is such a complex game that you can't accurately portray on paper what happens in game.
Orb will constantly whine about how imbalanced terran is because he doesn't play protoss aggressive and allin, which is where you see P > T.
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I definitely agree that something needs to be done with Marauders, with the viability of different tech trees, and with micro. It's not immediately clear what that solution is, at the moment, and I'm not sure how we can properly encourage Blizzard to get there.
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On April 23 2010 03:05 Thamoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 02:59 -orb- wrote:
Yes it's stupid to compare one unit like marines to zealots, but when protoss literally don't have a single fucking unit that beats marauders at any even remotely reasonable level of cost efficiency there's clearly something wrong with the game. Both immortals and zealots does decently against marauders actually. (Except in low numbers if the marauders have their shell upgrade.)
Please show me a high level game where zealots do anything versus marauders.
The terran has to be afk for zealots to be remotely useful vs marauders
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On April 23 2010 03:05 Floophead_III wrote:
Orb vs Morrow BO5 showmatch incoming.
Seriously, kids. SC2 is such a complex game that you can't accurately portray on paper what happens in game.
Orb will constantly whine about how imbalanced terran is because he doesn't play protoss aggressive and allin, which is where you see P > T.
That's my point, T>P unless you all in every damn game.
You shouldn't have to all in rush every single game to win, macro should be an option. A race is imbalanced if it wins every single time you ever let it get to the midgame/lategame
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For the record, comparing force field to dark swarm is lul worthy on just so many levels that it's just plain retarded. I don't think I even have to list all the reasons for people to realize that. You're basically saying a tier 3 spell is as game breaking as a tier 2 mid game spell. That should tell you how crazy over powered it is right there in itself.
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On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over
My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image.
DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on.
Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get.
Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries.
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On April 23 2010 03:10 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:05 Floophead_III wrote:
Orb vs Morrow BO5 showmatch incoming.
Seriously, kids. SC2 is such a complex game that you can't accurately portray on paper what happens in game.
Orb will constantly whine about how imbalanced terran is because he doesn't play protoss aggressive and allin, which is where you see P > T. That's my point, T>P unless you all in every damn game. You shouldn't have to all in rush every single game to win, macro should be an option. A race is imbalanced if it wins every single time you ever let it get to the midgame/lategame
so orb u think nerf on marauder and sentry is a good idea?
im talking about like a -15 hp on marauder and maybe a little lower dmg or so and on sentry +25 energy on the force field
obviously this would probably not fix balance at all but i just want unit diversity and strategy to grow wider than MY MARAUDER ARMY VS UR 20 FORCE FIELDS FUN FUN
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On April 23 2010 03:09 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:05 Thamoo wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 -orb- wrote:
Yes it's stupid to compare one unit like marines to zealots, but when protoss literally don't have a single fucking unit that beats marauders at any even remotely reasonable level of cost efficiency there's clearly something wrong with the game. Both immortals and zealots does decently against marauders actually. (Except in low numbers if the marauders have their shell upgrade.) Please show me a high level game where zealots do anything versus marauders. The terran has to be afk for zealots to be remotely useful vs marauders
according to you, they just attack move, so just run your zealots and kill them... j/k... obviously not what you are trying to say, but that's not a very useful arguement.
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On April 23 2010 03:12 NightOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image. DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on. Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get. Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries.
Lol no evidence of blizzard listening more to casuals than high level players?
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
you just completely nullified your entire post
you clearly have never heard of this game called wow
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WoW is designed for casuals, Orb.
It is also a completely different team.
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On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:12 NightOne wrote:On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image. DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on. Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get. Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries. Lol no evidence of blizzard listening more to casuals than high level players? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you just completely nullified your entire post you clearly have never heard of this game called wow
Also, remember that storm nerf? Essentially 99.9% of the reason why it was nerfed was people screaming imba on the Bnet forums. You can do a search on TL forums and you'll find probably not find any good threads trying to argue it was imba pre-nerf.
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On April 23 2010 03:14 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:10 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 03:05 Floophead_III wrote:
Orb vs Morrow BO5 showmatch incoming.
Seriously, kids. SC2 is such a complex game that you can't accurately portray on paper what happens in game.
Orb will constantly whine about how imbalanced terran is because he doesn't play protoss aggressive and allin, which is where you see P > T. That's my point, T>P unless you all in every damn game. You shouldn't have to all in rush every single game to win, macro should be an option. A race is imbalanced if it wins every single time you ever let it get to the midgame/lategame so orb u think nerf on marauder and sentry is a good idea? im talking about like a -15 hp on marauder and maybe a little lower dmg or so and on sentry +25 energy on the force field obviously this would probably not fix balance at all but i just want unit diversity and strategy to grow wider than MY MARAUDER ARMY VS UR 20 FORCE FIELDS FUN FUN
I'd much prefer having force fields be killable (not auto-targeted tho, otherwise it would ruin it) if they absolutely had to be nerfed rather than 100% anally fucking protoss early game with an energy nerf
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On April 23 2010 03:16 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 03:12 NightOne wrote:On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image. DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on. Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get. Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries. Lol no evidence of blizzard listening more to casuals than high level players? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you just completely nullified your entire post you clearly have never heard of this game called wow Also, remember that storm nerf? Essentially 99.9% of the reason why it was nerfed was people screaming imba on the Bnet forums. You can do a search on TL forums and you'll find probably not find any good threads trying to argue it was imba pre-nerf.
yep, this
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On April 23 2010 03:10 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:05 Floophead_III wrote:
Orb vs Morrow BO5 showmatch incoming.
Seriously, kids. SC2 is such a complex game that you can't accurately portray on paper what happens in game.
Orb will constantly whine about how imbalanced terran is because he doesn't play protoss aggressive and allin, which is where you see P > T. That's my point, T>P unless you all in every damn game. You shouldn't have to all in rush every single game to win, macro should be an option. A race is imbalanced if it wins every single time you ever let it get to the midgame/lategame
I wouldn't say T>P outside of allins. I do agree that marauders themselves are too lucrative though, in ANY matchup.
Currently the way TvP works is because of the lack of concussive shells terran can't be super aggressive early without going allin. Protoss can be super aggressive early because they have map control to eco/tech quite easily. There's this timing window between where protoss has full saturation and 3-4 warpgates and terran still is beefing their economy on 1 base and has almost no units. That's where the protoss allins hit. It's a consequence of chronoboost. It'd be fine except that terran can't respond like they do in BW by simply sitting on their ass with tanks because immortals are out so fast. Hence, they have to get ghosts too, but if they get ghosts they're weak vs a 4 warpgate, so they need some other units (marines/marauders, probably in bunkers). And then you have drop play, so they need turrets. Terran who doesn't cover all these possibilities is taking a risk. Protoss on the other hand just has to make a shitton of something and they probably can win right there.
As a note, the build I used vs you the last time we played is what I believe to be the only viable FE opening.
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Yeah and the roach burrow move speed nerf, no one was complaining about that here afaik but maybe they were on battle.net forums?
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id prefer sentries costing 75/100 and adding an upgrade that gives sentries 75 energy to start. doesnt really screw up the FF early game and solves the problem of protoss spamming sentries if their gas gets too high, meaning protoss have to find more creative ways to use up their gas.
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On April 23 2010 03:10 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:05 Floophead_III wrote:
Orb vs Morrow BO5 showmatch incoming.
Seriously, kids. SC2 is such a complex game that you can't accurately portray on paper what happens in game.
Orb will constantly whine about how imbalanced terran is because he doesn't play protoss aggressive and allin, which is where you see P > T. That's my point, T>P unless you all in every damn game. You shouldn't have to all in rush every single game to win, macro should be an option. A race is imbalanced if it wins every single time you ever let it get to the midgame/lategame
no you just sit in base making nothing when others exp and outmacro you ( like in game vs Floophead_III)
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On April 23 2010 03:16 -orb- wrote:
I'd much prefer having force fields be killable (not auto-targeted tho, otherwise it would ruin it) if they absolutely had to be nerfed rather than 100% anally fucking protoss early game with an energy nerf
So you have the same opinion as the majority of the people here, interesting... Remimber how this contest was to predict blizzard's changes? Not to argue on what you would personally change?
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On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:12 NightOne wrote:On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image. DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on. Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get. Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries. Lol no evidence of blizzard listening more to casuals than high level players? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you just completely nullified your entire post you clearly have never heard of this game called wow
Last time I checked, WOW wasn't as competetive as RTS games, or do you somehow have that mentality stuck in your head that if you reach Level 80 shaman you'll be #1 too?
Its very cute that you try and disregard my entire post based on that. Since thats the case, you obviously aren't listening and trying to convince you to manner up and respect other people is a waste of my time. I'll just let you keep trolling noobs who don't know better since you feel good about that, must feel like a man. Have fun.
PS: The poster about statistical analysis and other BS on your daily show is a complete contradictory to any evidence or constructive criticism / support for any hypothesese you came up with in this very thread.
Good Luck.
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I can almost guarantee you floophead that chrono boost is not going to give protoss a better economy than MULEs...
In fact that'd be an interesting thing to try. Have a protoss just build pylons and probes and use every chrono on probes to full saturation and have the terran just get the orbital command with the standard 15oc build and use every 50 energy on mules and see who's getting more money.
I feel like this would be what they balanced it towards (like what else?), but would still be interesting to see because while logically they should be even my gut tells me due to the sheer amount the mule mines and the fact that it lets other scvs mine the same node at hte same time that the terran would have a better economy.
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Yeah even as a Terran player I feel that marauders are too strong. I don't think making them harder to get or whatnot is the solution though. A slight HP/damage nerf, or take away stim or something.
Terran armies composed entirely of marauders should not work! T_T;
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On April 23 2010 03:20 -orb- wrote:
I can almost guarantee you floophead that chrono boost is not going to give protoss a better economy than MULEs...
In fact that'd be an interesting thing to try. Have a protoss just build pylons and probes and use every chrono on probes to full saturation and have the terran just get the orbital command with the standard 15oc build and use every 50 energy on mules and see who's getting more money.
I feel like this would be what they balanced it towards (like what else?), but would still be interesting to see because while logically they should be even my gut tells me due to the sheer amount the mule mines and the fact that it lets other scvs mine the same node at hte same time that the terran would have a better economy.
I think someone tried this before and they found that Protoss has a better economy for a short window of time (which is where the immortal all-inish push comes from) but after that window, Terran starts to pull ahead by a HUGE amount.
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On April 23 2010 03:20 NightOne wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 03:12 NightOne wrote:On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image. DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on. Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get. Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries. Lol no evidence of blizzard listening more to casuals than high level players? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you just completely nullified your entire post you clearly have never heard of this game called wow Last time I checked, WOW wasn't as competetive as RTS games, or do you somehow have that mentality stuck in your head that if you reach Level 80 shaman you'll be #1 too? Its very cute that you try and disregard my entire post based on that. Since thats the case, you obviously aren't listening and trying to convince you to manner up and respect other people is a waste of my time. I'll just let you keep trolling noobs who don't know better since you feel good about that, must feel like a man. Have fun. PS: The poster about statistical analysis and other BS on your daily show is a complete contradictory to any evidence or constructive criticism / support for any hypothesese you came up with in this very thread. Good Luck.
You clearly don't play wow or know anything at all about wow.
There is a core community in wow that is competitive in PvP in arenas and blizzard doesn't give a flying fuck about them which is why it's been shrinking for ages. Blizzard caters to the casuals in every single opportunity and it can easily be seen if you knew anything at all about wow
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On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:
you clearly have never heard of this game called wow
HT/DTs see extensive use in Korean servers. Tanks, Thors (mass), Hellions, Reapers as well. I've seen replays of players pushing with Thors with Hellions behind them to good effect. Just because on the US server where you play all Terrans always go MMM on n00b and pro level or use hellions just for harass early game doesn't mean blizzard should balance the game around that.
Blizzard has also held a lot of important events in Korea. Regardless of its popularity there if they were to just cater to the casual players they would have made the announcement somewhere else just because the entire world is bigger then one country.
Also, arguably WoW is a cooperative game (to a certain extent) and you will have masses of players at any given time (not 1v1). It does not make sense for them to listen to just the 1 or 2 elitists on each server.
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The way mining minerals in this game works already that test would have so much RNG in it you would have to run it through like 50 scenarios of placing probes properly after chrono boost alone.
Also how would you factor in a gold mineral patch with these simulations as well as time of expansion, considering that I am sure blizzard doesn't expect T and P to expand at the same time..
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On April 23 2010 03:20 -orb- wrote:
I can almost guarantee you floophead that chrono boost is not going to give protoss a better economy than MULEs...
In fact that'd be an interesting thing to try. Have a protoss just build pylons and probes and use every chrono on probes to full saturation and have the terran just get the orbital command with the standard 15oc build and use every 50 energy on mules and see who's getting more money.
I feel like this would be what they balanced it towards (like what else?), but would still be interesting to see because while logically they should be even my gut tells me due to the sheer amount the mule mines and the fact that it lets other scvs mine the same node at hte same time that the terran would have a better economy.
listen to urself orb, again u just compare 2 things towards each other. this is now how u come to conclusions in rts games
yes ofcoruse the mule will give more minerals and thats the only thing it can do well
but chrono boost gives more of anything, at anytime. terran must sacrifice mule to scan vise versa while the nexus only has 1 option
both spells r just so different that u cant just say which one of them is best
overall the mule gives more low tier units while chrono boost leans towards more tech, upgrades and higher tech units
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On April 23 2010 03:23 Black Octopi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:
you clearly have never heard of this game called wow
HT/DTs see extensive use in Korean servers. Tanks, Thors (mass), Hellions, Reapers as well. I've seen replays of players pushing with Thors with Hellions behind them to good effect. Just because on the US server where you play all Terrans always go MMM on n00b and pro level or use hellions just for harass early game doesn't mean blizzard should balance the game around that. Blizzard has also held a lot of important events in Korea. Regardless of its popularity there if they were to just cater to the casual players they would have made the announcement somewhere else just because the entire world is bigger then one country. Also, arguably WoW is a cooperative game (to a certain extent) and you will have masses of players at any given time (not 1v1). It does not make sense for them to listen to just the 1 or 2 elitists on each server.
Here yet again you illustrate your complete lack of knowledge of wow, but keep spewing bullshit and making yourself look like an idiot, it's amusing
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On April 23 2010 03:21 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:20 -orb- wrote:
I can almost guarantee you floophead that chrono boost is not going to give protoss a better economy than MULEs...
In fact that'd be an interesting thing to try. Have a protoss just build pylons and probes and use every chrono on probes to full saturation and have the terran just get the orbital command with the standard 15oc build and use every 50 energy on mules and see who's getting more money.
I feel like this would be what they balanced it towards (like what else?), but would still be interesting to see because while logically they should be even my gut tells me due to the sheer amount the mule mines and the fact that it lets other scvs mine the same node at hte same time that the terran would have a better economy. I think someone tried this before and they found that Protoss has a better economy for a short window of time (which is where the immortal all-inish push comes from) but after that window, Terran starts to pull ahead by a HUGE amount.
What really matters is that protoss ALWAYS hits saturation faster, and therefore they can cut workers for more units without being truly allin before terran can. I could care less if protoss has more money or not, because they can put 100% of that money into army before terran can. THAT is what makes a timing window, not just simply having more money.
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On April 23 2010 03:22 -orb- wrote:
You clearly don't play wow or know anything at all about wow.
There is a core community in wow that is competitive in PvP in arenas and blizzard doesn't give a flying fuck about them which is why it's been shrinking for ages. Blizzard caters to the casuals in every single opportunity and it can easily be seen if you knew anything at all about wow
As a retired very competitive wow player (2450+ rating), this is simply not true. (They did balance alot around PVE tho, which is to be expected since its mostly a pve game).
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On April 23 2010 03:24 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:20 -orb- wrote:
I can almost guarantee you floophead that chrono boost is not going to give protoss a better economy than MULEs...
In fact that'd be an interesting thing to try. Have a protoss just build pylons and probes and use every chrono on probes to full saturation and have the terran just get the orbital command with the standard 15oc build and use every 50 energy on mules and see who's getting more money.
I feel like this would be what they balanced it towards (like what else?), but would still be interesting to see because while logically they should be even my gut tells me due to the sheer amount the mule mines and the fact that it lets other scvs mine the same node at hte same time that the terran would have a better economy. listen to urself orb, again u just compare 2 things towards each other. this is now how u come to conclusions in rts games yes ofcoruse the mule will give more minerals and thats the only thing it can do well but chrono boost gives more of anything, at anytime. terran must sacrifice mule to scan vise versa while the nexus only has 1 option both spells r just so different that u cant just say which one of them is best overall the mule gives more low tier units while chrono boost leans towards more tech, upgrades and higher tech units
That's not the only thing it can do well, you have in-game legal maphacks with scan. Are you seriously going to argue that scan is useless and mule is the only thing to ever use?
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On April 23 2010 03:23 Black Octopi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:
you clearly have never heard of this game called wow
HT/DTs see extensive use in Korean servers. Tanks, Thors (mass), Hellions, Reapers as well. I've seen replays of players pushing with Thors with Hellions behind them to good effect. Just because on the US server where you play all Terrans always go MMM on n00b and pro level or use hellions just for harass early game doesn't mean blizzard should balance the game around that. Blizzard has also held a lot of important events in Korea. Regardless of its popularity there if they were to just cater to the casual players they would have made the announcement somewhere else just because the entire world is bigger then one country. Also, arguably WoW is a cooperative game (to a certain extent) and you will have masses of players at any given time (not 1v1). It does not make sense for them to listen to just the 1 or 2 elitists on each server.
Is there any source for streamed Korean play or at least VODs/replays? There is plenty of US/Euro stuff here and I'd be interested in its comparison to the Asian servers.
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Its tough to compare wow and sc2.
WoW had to balance between PvE and PvP.
SC2 balances around 1v1.
Also, different sections of blizzard working on different games, as well as the simple fact that WoW is a P2P game. 15 dollars a month forces a division to work pretty hard on keep the majority (which is of course casual/extremely mediocre-core) happy.
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On April 23 2010 03:26 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:24 MorroW wrote:On April 23 2010 03:20 -orb- wrote:
I can almost guarantee you floophead that chrono boost is not going to give protoss a better economy than MULEs...
In fact that'd be an interesting thing to try. Have a protoss just build pylons and probes and use every chrono on probes to full saturation and have the terran just get the orbital command with the standard 15oc build and use every 50 energy on mules and see who's getting more money.
I feel like this would be what they balanced it towards (like what else?), but would still be interesting to see because while logically they should be even my gut tells me due to the sheer amount the mule mines and the fact that it lets other scvs mine the same node at hte same time that the terran would have a better economy. listen to urself orb, again u just compare 2 things towards each other. this is now how u come to conclusions in rts games yes ofcoruse the mule will give more minerals and thats the only thing it can do well but chrono boost gives more of anything, at anytime. terran must sacrifice mule to scan vise versa while the nexus only has 1 option both spells r just so different that u cant just say which one of them is best overall the mule gives more low tier units while chrono boost leans towards more tech, upgrades and higher tech units That's not the only thing it can do well, you have in-game legal maphacks with scan. Are you seriously going to argue that scan is useless and mule is the only thing to ever use?
i thought we were talking about macro and mule vs chrono boost
and why r we even talking about it, i was just trying to shut down that discussion which of the spells r better because its a retarded discussion
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On April 23 2010 03:23 Black Octopi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:
you clearly have never heard of this game called wow
HT/DTs see extensive use in Korean servers. Tanks, Thors (mass), Hellions, Reapers as well. I've seen replays of players pushing with Thors with Hellions behind them to good effect. Just because on the US server where you play all Terrans always go MMM on n00b and pro level or use hellions just for harass early game doesn't mean blizzard should balance the game around that.
I'm fairly certain the American team rolled their Korean opponents in the Stars War over in China. So what's with this assumption that Koreans are already miles ahead of everyone else in terms of strategy? I've watched a lot of korean, european, and north american replays. I think it's pretty silly to make those statements right now. There really isn't a clearly superior or more innovative region right now.
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I can't believe you legitimately believe everything you say, orb. You're just trolling at this point. Your analysis is so one-sided and narrow-minded it's hilarious.
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1) Forcefield energy cost increased to 70
2) Roach HP decreased by 10
3) Maruders stim effect attack rate reduced slightly
4) Hallucination cost redcued to 90 mana
5) Broodlords attack nerfed slightly
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On April 23 2010 03:22 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:20 NightOne wrote:On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 03:12 NightOne wrote:On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over Even if this is the case I rather have more people enjoy playing starcraft for a bigger community than leaving something hard for low-mid teir players to deal with. Di spite the changes im confident the best players will cCome up with something to make the win ratio close between the races. Remember in starcraft didnt look perfectly balanced but playesr found away to deal with everything Players ultimantly balance the game not blizzard My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image. DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on. Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get. Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries. Lol no evidence of blizzard listening more to casuals than high level players? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you just completely nullified your entire post you clearly have never heard of this game called wow Last time I checked, WOW wasn't as competetive as RTS games, or do you somehow have that mentality stuck in your head that if you reach Level 80 shaman you'll be #1 too? Its very cute that you try and disregard my entire post based on that. Since thats the case, you obviously aren't listening and trying to convince you to manner up and respect other people is a waste of my time. I'll just let you keep trolling noobs who don't know better since you feel good about that, must feel like a man. Have fun. PS: The poster about statistical analysis and other BS on your daily show is a complete contradictory to any evidence or constructive criticism / support for any hypothesese you came up with in this very thread. Good Luck. You clearly don't play wow or know anything at all about wow. There is a core community in wow that is competitive in PvP in arenas and blizzard doesn't give a flying fuck about them which is why it's been shrinking for ages. Blizzard caters to the casuals in every single opportunity and it can easily be seen if you knew anything at all about wow
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You get a cloaked permanent moving scout, -orb-. All is not lost in Shakuras.
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On April 23 2010 03:27 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:23 Black Octopi wrote:On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:
you clearly have never heard of this game called wow
HT/DTs see extensive use in Korean servers. Tanks, Thors (mass), Hellions, Reapers as well. I've seen replays of players pushing with Thors with Hellions behind them to good effect. Just because on the US server where you play all Terrans always go MMM on n00b and pro level or use hellions just for harass early game doesn't mean blizzard should balance the game around that. Blizzard has also held a lot of important events in Korea. Regardless of its popularity there if they were to just cater to the casual players they would have made the announcement somewhere else just because the entire world is bigger then one country. Also, arguably WoW is a cooperative game (to a certain extent) and you will have masses of players at any given time (not 1v1). It does not make sense for them to listen to just the 1 or 2 elitists on each server. Is there any source for streamed Korean play or at least VODs/replays? There is plenty of US/Euro stuff here and I'd be interested in its comparison to the Asian servers.
Sen played often on stream at a time, the game was an accent or so different when played on asia server. It wasn't this crazy mix-up though people talk about...
http://www.livestream.com/senbattlenetstream
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Go with smufts additude dont call things unbalanced or underpowered just find away even if patches get into the way
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On April 23 2010 03:27 PanzerDragoon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:23 Black Octopi wrote:On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:
you clearly have never heard of this game called wow
HT/DTs see extensive use in Korean servers. Tanks, Thors (mass), Hellions, Reapers as well. I've seen replays of players pushing with Thors with Hellions behind them to good effect. Just because on the US server where you play all Terrans always go MMM on n00b and pro level or use hellions just for harass early game doesn't mean blizzard should balance the game around that. Blizzard has also held a lot of important events in Korea. Regardless of its popularity there if they were to just cater to the casual players they would have made the announcement somewhere else just because the entire world is bigger then one country. Also, arguably WoW is a cooperative game (to a certain extent) and you will have masses of players at any given time (not 1v1). It does not make sense for them to listen to just the 1 or 2 elitists on each server. Is there any source for streamed Korean play or at least VODs/replays? There is plenty of US/Euro stuff here and I'd be interested in its comparison to the Asian servers. Go watch on Husky and HD channels on youtube, they've been posting quite a few Korean ones recently.
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8748 Posts
I don't think Blizzard changes the game based on anyone's opinion. There are a few steps to the process:
1.) What's wrong with the game?
--> Look for ourselves
--> Collect opinions via user feedback
2.) Why is a particular issue an issue?
--> Investigate for ourselves
--> Read users' investigations
3.) How to fix the issue?
--> Come up with our own solutions
--> Read user-suggested solutions
4.) Is the solution good?
--> Investigate for ourselves
--> Read users' investigations
I'd say that (1) and (3) are opinions or hypotheses that are basically just thrown out there like a brainstorming process. Who says what doesn't really matter. Nothing here changes the game. The important thing is getting everything on the table. They're things that could potentially change the game.
(2) and (4) are arguments that stand by themselves, independent of who wrote them. (2) can eliminate or validate things from (1), as can (4) do to items from (3). It still doesn't matter who says what.
For the most part, I think (2) and (4) are only truly completed by Blizzard employees. Most people aren't knowledgeable enough to do them. The few users, or groups of users, who are knowledgeable enough aren't getting paid and don't know if their work will actually make a difference. The best instances of (2) and (4) from users remain hidden in the form of informal conversations between top players...
Nothing gets in the game without coming clean through analysis and investigation. "User opinion" doesn't ever weigh in during an investigation. There isn't anything like "well it seems to us that Storm is perfectly balanced, but 60% of users say it isn't, so let's nerf it"
(this has nothing to do with WoW changes, which are not analogous for a bunch of reasons...)
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I don't think wow has any place in this discussion
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Thanks to everyone who humored me and participated!
Results are now up!
Orb and Morrow, behave yourselves ;-)
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GJ goszar and onmach! on the spot!
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On April 23 2010 03:16 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2010 03:15 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 03:12 NightOne wrote:On April 23 2010 03:04 -orb- wrote:On April 23 2010 02:59 NightOne wrote:
So to call 90% of this thread retarded is just wrong. Besides, what does Orb's ranting and rage have to do with this patch-notes contest anyways? Orb are you pissed off for people suggesting patch notes that you would never suggest? You should be happy about it then because that means your patch-note suggestion should theoretically win. Also, if this is a patch-note contest for beta keys, most of these people probably havn't played the game, so why are you trolling newbs when you have better things to do?
Because on a certain level Blizzard listens to the players and unfortunately when you look at the patch histories (things like the DT nerf when no one complained about DTs since they're half as useful as they were in brood war, etc) it's obvious they listen to the casuals more than the high level players, and unfortunately these idiots are shaping the game in a terrible way. When you dumb down every race to be as attack move as the zerg are right now the game becomes hopelessly boring and is not fun to watch. Micro/spells are what make starcraft such a spectator sport (PLAGUUUUUU STORMMMUUUUU etc), yet it seems like everyone just wants to attack move to victory while they sit there and watch their units' AI take over My point was that calling other people retarded simply because you are Orb and you don't agree with them is wrong. Half of those people probably watch your daily show. Its disrespectful. Try something more constructive because pissing people off because other people pissed you off isn't helping your image. DT nerf was a suprise to me as it was to alot of players. However, you are mistaking causality and outcome if you think that Blizzard listens to casuals more than top-tier players. It is in no means evidence of such a thing at all, it is your simple guess that blizzard listens to noobs rather than you. We really have no clue as to where Blizzard gets most of their information because they don't disclose that. Moot point and pointless, moving on. Its true that dumbing down a race to attack-move is boring, I am sure that top-tier zerg and terran players would argue that their unit usage is anything but attack move. Even if everyone wanted to just attack-move to victory that is probably not what they'll get. Besides, top-tier players all know that noobs want easy-wins and attack-move strategies. If you were put into a situation where you only had to beat those noobs and automatically be called a pro-gamer i'm sure you would find your way out of it. Top tier players don't attack-move or cheese as often, you should know that by now otherwise you are just being difficult and unreasonable. When you play Idra, I think attack-move would be the least of your worries. Lol no evidence of blizzard listening more to casuals than high level players? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha you just completely nullified your entire post you clearly have never heard of this game called wow Also, remember that storm nerf? Essentially 99.9% of the reason why it was nerfed was people screaming imba on the Bnet forums. You can do a search on TL forums and you'll find probably not find any good threads trying to argue it was imba pre-nerf.
I've gotta add that if we must talk about wow... Yes they do some things for the casuals but also keep in mind the amount of tweaking that went in to skills just over problems in Arena. The high level arena teams are definitely not casual. In my opinion Blizzard does their best to please both, they may not succeed but... casuals give them a lot of money, high level players add to the longevity of the game(and other things) and they need us both. I imagine it would be hard to balance the interests of both especially in SC. To be honest I think they're doing a pretty good job
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This was fun. I hope you do it again.
I got 1/5 exactly right, which isn't great.
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On April 23 2010 05:37 legendin wrote:
Orb and Morrow, behave yourselves ;-)
Not possible.
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On April 23 2010 05:37 legendin wrote:
Thanks to everyone who humored me and participated!
Results are now up! Woohoo thx! Fun thread.
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EPT
