EPTPathfinding -- What went wrong? - Page 2
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iSTime
1579 Posts
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DrSmoke
United States175 Posts
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jeremycafe
United States354 Posts
Whether it be attacking, or telling your own unit to move down your ramp. Micro shouldnt come into play when its simple move commands. If i say move to point a, if there is a unit in the way, it should know to move around it. Regardless if the unit is moving to attack or simply move to a location, it shouldnt make a difference on how the unit decides to take that path. | ||
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TBO
Germany1350 Posts
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roemy
Germany432 Posts
On April 19 2010 06:57 Liquid`NonY wrote: Actually in BW, units that are not in range and are stuck behind units that are attacking will often move backwards. In SC2, they'll stay directly behind the units in front of them and move along the line looking for an opening. well the only thing i find annoying is this: c = command center z= zergling z zzzzz zcccc zcccc zcccc that one zergling moves right ......z zzzzz zcccc zcccc zcccc but then decides to turn around if it went through all the backtracing legs. if it could start up a new backtracing calc right there, that'd be golden. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 19 2010 07:05 Terrakin wrote: The twitching units will only happen if you don't micro, the two examples you saw were probably just newer players. Interesting that you have this opinion, because there are plenty of people with the opinion that the pathing engine is too good and doesn't allow *enough* places to micro. | ||
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MinoMino
Norway1103 Posts
The immortal part, on the other hand, seems to be a glitch that I expect to be fixed eventually. I've seen the immortal start walking from side to side outside of any interaction with any opponent, for instance when you attack the destructible rocks. Sometimes it will even start to walk away from your control group, like, really far away. I'm pretty sure we can expect some fixes to obvious glitches, but not necessarily to the occasional inefficiency of the current pathfinding. I also think the inefficiency in the current pathfinding is desirable by a lot of players as it demands micro, thus making the game harder to master. | ||
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gogogadgetflow
United States2583 Posts
I have watch a unit just try to force its way through a force field until it goes away. wat | ||
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LaNague
Germany9118 Posts
You cant expect the PC do everything for you, the pathfinding allready is very forgiving. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On April 19 2010 07:29 TBO wrote: what is really wrong with pathfinding is that the pathfinding knows that some destructible rocks have been destroyed even if you have no intelligence about that. The same goes for things like wall-offs. If you tell a unit that is below a cliff to move to a point on top of the cliff it will stay around that spot and not try to follow the edge until it finds an opening if that opening is closed off by buildings. Here again the pathfinding has knowledge that the player doesn't have. | ||
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Random()
Kyrgyz Republic1462 Posts
What bothers me much more is that there is no way to make units keep formation. E.g. zealots will always insist to get mixed into a blob with the other units even if you manually put them forward before the attack, unless the attack order is issued separately to the zealots and then the other units, and even then they won't stay in a line as you put them but clump together. Same with marines/marauders - marines just won't stay behind. I would really like to have a basic formation movement function. Actually I like how that was done in Warcraft 3, the group would move as fast as the slowest unit, and the formation was more or less preserved. | ||
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NarutO
Germany18839 Posts
On April 19 2010 06:50 Liquid`NonY wrote: Most of the AI complaints I have seen from people are always in the context of interacting with their opponent. As far as I can tell, the AI is pretty damn slick when I'm doing things by myself. But yeah, when I interact with my opponent, shit can get pretty damn inefficient unless I micro. Sounds perfect to me. I agree with you, but thats because we (just a wild guess) are playing or want to play on a professional level while most casuals just want to have fun and don't stress out while micro'ing. Still I completely agree, shouldn't be changed at all. Pathfinding is really good already. | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
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Sadistx
Zimbabwe5568 Posts
"I want the computer to move all of my units into perfect positions for their roles and also attack the units which they counter. Also cake." Sorry guys, this isn't a game that plays itself. The actual pathfinding is leaps and bounds ahead compared to the near retarded BW pathfinding AI. | ||
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TheTuna
United States286 Posts
This is something that should be fixed, in my opinion; it's not really a big deal but there's no reason your opponent should know you have a wall without having to scout it. Plus this removes the chance to possibly kill the scouter as well. | ||
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jeremycafe
United States354 Posts
On April 19 2010 08:50 Sadistx wrote: A lot of you seem to define pathfinding as "I want the computer to move all of my units into perfect positions for their roles and also attack the units which they counter. Also cake." Sorry guys, this isn't a game that plays itself. The actual pathfinding is leaps and bounds ahead compared to the near retarded BW pathfinding AI. This has nothing to do with my post. There is a bug in the logic from moving from point a to point b. It simply doesnt always work. Whether or not its the best possible solution doesnt matter. But if I tell a unit to move to a location and it BUGS out, then its flawed. "A lot of YOU" seem to think that a game cant be competitive if it doesn't stick to stone age mechanics and technology. | ||
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
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OreoBoi
Canada1639 Posts
On April 19 2010 11:24 jeremycafe wrote: This has nothing to do with my post. There is a bug in the logic from moving from point a to point b. It simply doesnt always work. Whether or not its the best possible solution doesnt matter. But if I tell a unit to move to a location and it BUGS out, then its flawed. "A lot of YOU" seem to think that a game cant be competitive if it doesn't stick to stone age mechanics and technology. Well the examples you brought up are: Immortals get stuck behind units that are firing. That's good for competitive play though, it means you have to micro your units so that you get the most damage done. This prevents everyone from just pressing 1a, as stalkers move faster than immortals and zealots. Your second example is one of the strengths of forcefield. It needs you to micro units properly or else they will get trapped. Once again, good for competitive play. If the unit simply walks around the forcefield without any trouble, the power of forcefield is reduced greatly. I fail to see where the unit BUGS out. That would imply that you wouldn't be able to move the unit manually, which you can. Look, most people (me included) here won't see it your way, simply because this the pathfinding is much better than it was in SC1. I'm gonna take you didn't play brood war on the map medusa, as I can't imagine the trouble on blistering sands if there was still Brood War AI. | ||
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Ocedic
United States1808 Posts
On April 19 2010 06:50 Liquid`NonY wrote: Most of the AI complaints I have seen from people are always in the context of interacting with their opponent. As far as I can tell, the AI is pretty damn slick when I'm doing things by myself. But yeah, when I interact with my opponent, shit can get pretty damn inefficient unless I micro. Sounds perfect to me. Perfect summation of my thoughts. The only real pathfinding issue I've found is Reapers who sometimes don't know they can jump over ledges or something and get stuck when they shouldn't. Pretty annoying when you order a reaper to move across the map and a few seconds later he's at your base humping the wall. | ||
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prototype.
Canada4215 Posts
Considering how many noobs there are in sc2, it's just *box units*a now. | ||
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