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The Roach is whats wrong with SC2. - Page 15

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 13 14 15 16 17 28 Next All
ColorsOfRainbow
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany354 Posts
April 05 2010 10:29 GMT
#281
there is no balance problem with the roach ! fine unit its u !
Severedevil
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States4838 Posts
April 05 2010 10:32 GMT
#282
On April 05 2010 19:10 Badjas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2010 19:03 MavercK wrote:
holy batshit insane. morph 1 roach into 2 with half hp?
double your damage at the cost of health?
serious imbalance there.

At the cost of health and minerals (and gas I guess). Building roaches from larva should not be too much different. But it allows for roaches to be built somewhat more nearby the battlefield, and it is a way to salvage badly damaged roaches a bit more quickly, if the regeneration rate is somewhat dropped. I mean this idea mostly as a buff to counter nerf, making the role of the roach go in a bit of a different direction.

Don't violate the larva basis for zerg unit production, please.

I think cutting the marauder is the best option. Everything about it just seems wrong. (125 hit points on an infantry man? "The C&C Rocket Guy" in starcraft? Rockets with a slow effect?) Marines should have plenty of DPS versus heavy targets until tier 3. (If they don't, you gave the heavy targets too damn much HP/armor... try fixing that first.)

Also, now that I think about it, I'm surprised Reapers aren't Firebats With Jetpacks. And I'd bet that mech wouldn't be in such a mess if Hellions still had spider mines. (Or perhaps they could trade in concussion grenades or flamethrowers for an anti-vehicle rocket, as some folks suggested... now, vultures raid your base and kill your buildings! Leave the workers to the reapers.)
My strategy is to fork people.
vrok
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden2541 Posts
April 05 2010 10:33 GMT
#283
As a zerg player I agree 100% with the OP. Roaches and the hard counters to it are all ridiculous. So much so that I practically refuse to take part in the ultra boring roach/marauder/immortal fest in ZvP and ZvT. In ZvZ I'm pretty much forced to unless I want to forfeit but that matchup seriously has me considering switching to protoss for now. I remember the interview with TLO saying that the worst part of playing random is that you might get ZvZ. :D
"Starcraft 2 very easy game" - White-Ra
Marradron
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Netherlands1586 Posts
April 05 2010 10:41 GMT
#284
I agree with the OP. But however since the entire game is balanced arround the existance of these 3 units any change in them would require drastic changes all over
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
April 05 2010 10:46 GMT
#285
God how much I dislike the roach, they are such a boring boring boring unit.
When they were first revealed it seemed like an interesting little early game harass unit cause of its regeneration, that is gonna suck against a real army, but I guess thats not what they were going for after all.

I dont think its gonna happen but please, either remove the roach or nerf it hard/change its role and give us Zerg an interesting unit
beep boop
Angra
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States2652 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-05 11:10:59
April 05 2010 11:03 GMT
#286
I just wanted to say that I'm really glad this thread is receiving a lot of attention. I couldn't exactly place my finger on what I didn't like about all of the hard counters and +damage to armored/light stuff, but the OP pretty much made it dawn on me that it was this trinity of units that is the big problem with almost the entirety of what people are saying is wrong with SC2 currently (the other main problem being almost no defender's advantage, but that's something for another topic). Something definitely should be reworked about marauders/roaches/immortals before release to make the game less stale and rock-paper-scissors.


As a side note, this thread also gives me a lot more hope that SC2 can turn into a really amazing game by release because of the fact that people are being able to start to pinpoint the problems with what is making SC2 not the game they want it to be, rather than not really being sure exactly what the problems are. Being able to pick out three units (roach, marauder, immortal) and one mechanic (high ground) as to what the biggest problems are will solve SO much if Blizzard can identify this also and rework it to something more dynamic and interesting by the time it's released. It makes me very hopeful for the future of SC2.
HTX
Profile Joined February 2010
Germany265 Posts
April 05 2010 11:05 GMT
#287
Why not have roach with low hp on tier 1 and after lair they transform into somewhat different unit type with high regeneration, hp, move while burrow ?
To make it more interesting the updates for Roach 2.0 could be upgraded at tier 1 level and then zerg can go for surprising timing attacks.
The internet: a horrible collective liar
Don Pedro
Profile Joined April 2010
Switzerland14 Posts
April 05 2010 11:07 GMT
#288
I totally agree with the OP!! If roach/marauder/(immortal) would be removed I think the game would get a lot more interessting!
i hate those marauder-ball vs roach-ball battles, where there is like a 30 marauders-ball focusing one unit, then retreating, firing again, retreating.. while the incoming roach-ball ist just a-moving into them and still has a chance to win. both units suck..

and anyway, what kind of zerg creature is the roach supposed to be? yeah, zerglings, hydras, mutas, ultras, lurkers.. they all kind of looked like zerg! but the roach? is just an ugly looking bug. ok that pretty sums it up: the roach is a bug.
Ronald_McD
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada807 Posts
April 05 2010 11:09 GMT
#289
I don't think this is true. Not specifically the roach anyways.

The Marauder, Roach and Immortal are all equally imbalanced.

I actually find the Immortal to be the least overpowered out of all of these (and I'm not even a Protoss player). It at least holds a defined role as a hard counter to high damage units. I think it does a little too much damage considering it's also a tank for absorbing damage and relatively mobile. At least its supposed hard counters such as zerglings are actually a counter to it, much unlike the Marauder
FUCKING GAY LAGS
Marradron
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Netherlands1586 Posts
April 05 2010 11:15 GMT
#290
On April 05 2010 20:09 Ronald_McD wrote:
I don't think this is true. Not specifically the roach anyways.

The Marauder, Roach and Immortal are all equally imbalanced.

I actually find the Immortal to be the least overpowered out of all of these (and I'm not even a Protoss player). It at least holds a defined role as a hard counter to high damage units. I think it does a little too much damage considering it's also a tank for absorbing damage and relatively mobile. At least its supposed hard counters such as zerglings are actually a counter to it, much unlike the Marauder


The OP is actually claiming that. But the problem itselfs lies in the roach. The roach created the need for too strong marauders in T that then again created the immortal need.
Elite00fm
Profile Joined January 2008
United States548 Posts
April 05 2010 11:32 GMT
#291
i strongly agree with the OP, and I'm pretty sure anyone who doesn't probably doesn't understand his argument. He is talking about how stupid the hard counter system is.
NiGoL
Profile Joined September 2008
1868 Posts
April 05 2010 11:38 GMT
#292
They wont go away so
http://www.twitter.com/NiGoLBW playing league on a competitive level
violett
Profile Joined July 2007
Germany143 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-05 11:56:10
April 05 2010 11:55 GMT
#293
its a good point by the op, the whole game would change, the roach is overpowered against all ground units except marauder and immortal.
with a nerf by like 20% of the roach, marauder and immortal, more different openings would be viable.

but blizzards goal is to release the game in 2 month, the time would be to short to rebalance all the mu.
DeCoup
Profile Joined September 2006
Australia1933 Posts
April 05 2010 12:00 GMT
#294
I think that all 3 units just need a small drop in damage output. I don't mind the HP/Armor of the roach/marauder. And maybe take the heavy attribute off buildings. +dmg to structures can be added to units if needed.
"Poor guy. I really did not deserve that win. So this is what it's like to play Protoss..." - IdrA
ExoCorsair
Profile Joined February 2008
United States48 Posts
April 05 2010 12:00 GMT
#295
but blizzards goal is to release the game in 2 month, the time would be to short to rebalance all the mu.


I don't see the problem with this. SC2 doesn't have to be perfectly balanced at release. That's what patches are for, no?
SirNeb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States243 Posts
April 05 2010 12:00 GMT
#296
On April 05 2010 20:55 violett wrote:but blizzards goal is to release the game in 2 month, the time would be to short to rebalance all the mu.


that's kind of the problem with blizzard betas, they are putting out a beta that would have been a final product from another company. It's a good and bad thing. Good is that you don't have to deal with lots of bugs. Bad is that when there's something really wrong with balance/gameplay, they are not necessarily willing to change.

At this stage of the game, they are really just trying to fine tune everything. They aren't looking to make drastic changes unless the "data" shows it being overpowered or whatever. I guess we'll see, getting a lot of attention is good if Blizzard does look at this site and maybe Dustin is willing to listen to the gamers.
Klockan3
Profile Blog Joined July 2007
Sweden2866 Posts
April 05 2010 12:08 GMT
#297
They could just reduce the roaches armor from 2 to 0, would fix practically every issue about it.
iounas
Profile Joined July 2008
409 Posts
April 05 2010 12:12 GMT
#298
On April 05 2010 21:00 SirNeb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2010 20:55 violett wrote:but blizzards goal is to release the game in 2 month, the time would be to short to rebalance all the mu.


that's kind of the problem with blizzard betas, they are putting out a beta that would have been a final product from another company. It's a good and bad thing. Good is that you don't have to deal with lots of bugs. Bad is that when there's something really wrong with balance/gameplay, they are not necessarily willing to change.

At this stage of the game, they are really just trying to fine tune everything. They aren't looking to make drastic changes unless the "data" shows it being overpowered or whatever. I guess we'll see, getting a lot of attention is good if Blizzard does look at this site and maybe Dustin is willing to listen to the gamers.

Nobody is expecting for sc2 to be perfectly balanced when it comes out.. It takes years to fine tune stuff..
Op post is big deal..
I like his idea of roaches -50hp but have constant +4 regen.. And then balance marauders to that..
It would make roaches more interesting to micro in smaller numbers..
Marauders have slow so they are also interesting to micro..
Stalkers could use some weaker form of blink with current blink researchable so they have some interesting micro early game..
IdrA: stalkers actually do negative damage. when you shoot a marine with a stalker it gains health.
IaniAniaN
Profile Joined September 2007
Canada555 Posts
April 05 2010 12:23 GMT
#299
On April 05 2010 21:00 SirNeb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2010 20:55 violett wrote:but blizzards goal is to release the game in 2 month, the time would be to short to rebalance all the mu.


that's kind of the problem with blizzard betas, they are putting out a beta that would have been a final product from another company. It's a good and bad thing. Good is that you don't have to deal with lots of bugs. Bad is that when there's something really wrong with balance/gameplay, they are not necessarily willing to change.

At this stage of the game, they are really just trying to fine tune everything. They aren't looking to make drastic changes unless the "data" shows it being overpowered or whatever. I guess we'll see, getting a lot of attention is good if Blizzard does look at this site and maybe Dustin is willing to listen to the gamers.

The problem is their data can't show disappointment and boredom in mus. =p
Spaylz
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Japan1743 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-04-05 12:32:48
April 05 2010 12:24 GMT
#300
Roaches are too good. I mean, 75/25, 145 hp, 16 base damage with 3 range AND IT ONLY TAKES 1 FOOD. That's what's ridiculous. The 1 food thing.

I think Blizzard should decrease the Roaches' hp, like maybe from 145 to 115, 120... Also, it should definitely take 2 food. You just have to watch DIMAGA's game to see it. The guy doesn't even bother with anything else, he goes fe, prod two Queens and then masses up Roaches and crushes most of his P opponents.
I like words.
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