[D] Arbiters in SC2 - Page 2

On April 05 2010 06:31 Liquid`NonY wrote:

Strongly disagree here. If a Protoss had Recall ready to go at a time when the Terran could only stop it by luck, then the Protoss must have done something earlier in the game to gain an advantage. In an even game, when Protoss is going Recall, the Terran has enough Turrets, Goliaths, EMP and Scan to prevent Recalls. Alternatively, in an even game, the Terran can "let" Recalls happen and be in a position to minimize losses when they do happen.

Many Protoss have lost games because they were trying to get Arbiters/Recall too quickly. Many Protoss have lost games because they expected to be able to make a strong offensive move as soon as Recall was ready to go but then found that there was no great place to do a Recall. Then the Protoss is in a situation where his Recall investment is useless and he would have been better of investing in econ, some other tech, upgrades, etc. The Terran comes out with an advantage in that situation and has better prospects of winning down the road.

On April 05 2010 07:37 Feefee wrote:


See, I would cite all of that as saying it was much harder to stop than to execute^^;. Building 20 Turrets + golitaths+ EMP+ scan is harder for me than building a single arbiter. You're right that it takes experience on the toss side of things on when and where to execute the recall, but toss only needs that experience when the terran is skilled enough to "let recalls happen and minimize losses", which in my eyes is alot harder to do than deciding on whether to recall or not.
Really I'm just talking on my experience of literally plopping turrets down everywhere, mining up my base, EMP'ing any arbiter I scan, doing everything perfect until I miss one arbiter who then ignores all turret fire, happens to recall in the one place where there aren't mines, and takes out all my factories. That's what I call a lucky recall and it happened way more often than not. I'm obviously no Nony, but I remember a game of Firebathero versus some horrible toss on... tornado maybe? Where FBH has him completely contained only to have one recall in his base destroy everything. If you think that was a "skill" move then fine, but I'll still maintain that it would've been infinitely harder for FBH to defend against than it was to execute. FBH even knew he had recall... then again he's FBH...
I hates recall^^;

Also: if you find out you can't recall anywhere I agree your recall investment was useless, but terran has 20 turrets worth of minerals spent on.. turets too. I realize recall was needed in SC1, but I much MUCH prefer sc2 without the need for recall.

I would personally rather see them fix the mothership rather than adding another SC1 unit back into the game. This is a new game and with a new game you need change. Yes, the arbiter was a good unit in SC1 but does that really mean you need it in SC2?

On April 05 2010 09:17 nMn wrote:
I don't really understand the reasoning behind removing every semi-luck base mechanic in the game. I understand the argument for pure luck, if I made a marine and 1/6 of the time, it turns into a super marine that does 3x the damage, okay thats bad but semi-luck based situations bring TONS to a spectator sport. Thats what SC2 is meant to be, a spectator sport.

What was wrong with lucky mine drags, a no-observer recall (recall into mines anyone?), scarab dud (im hesitant to call that luck) or PROXIES? These build suspense, those are what makes all those crazy korean girls go ahoooohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, its what makes the game so exciting to watch.

Now, I understand that some people believe that the game should be completely skill based and every action should be the beginning and end of the reaction but what kind of life-span can a game like that have outside of the niche players?