EPT
[D] Arbiters in SC2 - Page 3
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Karas
United States230 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On April 05 2010 10:16 Karas wrote: I'm just enjoying the fact that one of the units that was on the top 3 list of most useless units in SC for much of SC's early years now has such a campaign to return Wait? Arbiters? Useless...? What on earth (or Auir) are you talking about? | ||
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mOnion
United States5657 Posts
On April 05 2010 10:16 Karas wrote: I'm just enjoying the fact that one of the units that was on the top 3 list of most useless units in SC for much of SC's early years now has such a campaign to return o.o when was the arbiter considered useless lol? top 3: queen, scout, ghost. easy. arbiter isnt even close to the top of that list. | ||
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floor exercise
Canada5847 Posts
On April 05 2010 10:16 Karas wrote: I'm just enjoying the fact that one of the units that was on the top 3 list of most useless units in SC for much of SC's early years now has such a campaign to return It was never considered a useless unit, and was a staple unit in foreigner protoss play since the dawn of competitive SC | ||
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Doc Daneeka
United States577 Posts
On April 05 2010 10:06 iCCup.Diamond wrote: Has "Stasis": Yes/Really cool stasis. you honestly think stasis looked cooler than vortex? i think vortex is badass and totally intimidating, and seems kinda nervewracking cos both players have to tiptoe around it while it's still running. | ||
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Tdelamay
Canada548 Posts
On April 05 2010 10:06 iCCup.Diamond wrote: I personally have been for this since I first realized how slow the MS moves... Seriously how is the MS not just a limited, slow, useless arbiter? Vortex is a very fancy stasis that works good on bad players. Bad players will keep dumping units into the hole. Good players will just avoid the area. Now normally stasis was a double whammy cause it froze units but it also took up a lot of space and forced armies to reposition. This Vortex is only a cool stasis. Let's compare MS/Arbiter Cloaks nearby units: Yes/Yes Has "Stasis": Yes/Really cool stasis. Recall: Yes/Big reacall Does lots of damage: Yes/No Can keep up with your army: No/Yes So the only difference is the MS can be used as a harassment unit (if you have 12 hours for it to move 12 pixels,,,) and the arbiter cannot. Arbiter's make up for this by keeping up with your army. Now they can't cause the MS is slower than sin. Removing the arbiter completely killed the advantage in mobility the Protoss historically had. Now they have to go around the map un-cloaked or move somewhere and wait for the MS to catch up. I know there is a slim chance of the Arbiter coming back, but do I miss them o so much  Mothership has some kickass dps! | ||
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On April 05 2010 10:29 Doc Daneeka wrote: you honestly think stasis looked cooler than vortex? i think vortex is badass and totally intimidating, and seems kinda nervewracking cos both players have to tiptoe around it while it's still running. Whoops. put the Yes/No's backwards. I meant the mothership has a really cool looking stasis. | ||
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shaydwyrm
United States14 Posts
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Feefee
Canada556 Posts
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Vlare
748 Posts
While getting a stargate is not usually done as a result of comon builds, it's the little things like overlord hunting, killing queens, snipping medivacs that makes the difference. Lately a lot of Terrans go Marauder/medivac, and without those medivacs the Marauder ball looks a lot less threatening. | ||
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Antisocialmunky
United States5912 Posts
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Feefee
Canada556 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
On April 05 2010 10:53 Vlare wrote: I don't know about you guys but... Stargate can put out a lot of pressure vs Zerg. Don't get me wrong I think the Pheonix is badass. I abuse the shit out of them on LT (Forge FE into Pheonix harass FTW )!The problem is the Void Rays are sniper units and Pheonix's don't really belong chilling with the "ball" unless the "ball" is carriers. Unless you have 4-5+ Pheonix they cannot do anything really to help your army besides delaying unit attacks. But the pressing issue is the Toss ground army is amazingly fragile in the late game. Zealots no longer run the speed of light, and Stalkers are in no way as effective as Dragoons. Storm doesn't cover an area the size of Montana anymore, and Archons aren't invincible balls of death. Sure we got Colsi and Immortals too, but neither is useful as a reaver + shuttle, and the Immortals are slow. Thus the "Protoss ball" is essentially brought back to being a defensive force instead of an offensive one. You either have to add a MS and move 2 MPH, or let the MS do it's own thing and pray to god the opponent does not have Fungal Growth or EMP. Either will cripple any offense the Toss can muster, and both are easily attainable. With an Arbiter, EMP still messes shit up but you will have a small timing window where your units can be invisible thus allowing a attack to possibly still move forward. Fungal becomes less deadly as the Zerg has to do some guesswork on the casting location or sac an overseer. Idk maybe I'm just a shitty player, but there is no single unit i miss more than the Arbiter. It made the late game (especially PvT) so exciting. | ||
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Lazix
Australia378 Posts
On April 05 2010 11:05 Feefee wrote: the reason it blows is because they listened to everyone about not wanting a superhero unit =P And if they did make it a hero unit the Protoss as a race would blow. I know which I'd prefer. | ||
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nitdkim
1264 Posts
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Aravan
Poland36 Posts
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StimCraft
United States144 Posts
Don't!: "I hated SC1 and despise getting owned by depth because I can't think for myself" persons Avoid saying "fuck no," and instead argue, "I believe the game is balanced 'as-is.'" No one is saying bring back the arbiter as it was. That would not be fair. The only problem is the approach the 2nd team has taken: Pull the arbiter out of the StarCraft games like an extremely late-term abortion and throw it into an incinerator. All on a Monday morning... It was fundamentally cut out of the second game (substituted). I see the only obvious thing to do is to definitely change the thing that is the problem. Since the mothership is broken, fix it or you must add another unit to make air (or the mothership) more viable. The focus was the mothership, because they made everything else nearly impossible to change (idiots). Change it. Maybe add a small unit to compliment the mothership, in that it at least acts as a stepping stone. | ||
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ggrrg
Bulgaria2716 Posts
but the arbiter should not be reintroduced. recall will be pretty much useless since armies are far more mobile in sc2 than they were in sc1. and going up a choke is not a problem anymore like it used to be in sc1. statis on the oher hand might be too powerful. with all those clumped armies one statis will shut down half the opponents army... | ||
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ZenDeX
Philippines2916 Posts
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On April 05 2010 10:22 floor exercise wrote: It was never considered a useless unit, and was a staple unit in foreigner protoss play since the dawn of competitive SC it was really no where near as good compared to carriers though(in earlier days) and iirc carriers was the only way to go..wasnt until pusan i think started using arbiters that they really caught on | ||
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