[D] Marauders - Page 20

i think its a bad idea to make tanks better to compensate for a possible marauder nerf. tanks r already insanely good. ive played all my lately tvz with tanks as my core unit and they just rip apart a zerg army, only counter seem to be air once u reach about 16 tanks. even tho tanks r not used in tvp i dont think that is because the actual tanks r too bad, i think its because toss has too many counters against them. charge, blink, immortal shield and extra dmg, hell even phonix counters them in a sense.

all im trying to bring to the table with this post is that if u would nerf the marauder, dont compensate it by making the tank better, its already strong as hell against zerg.

u might say to urself "alright so we give it +vs armored when sieged to make it better vs toss and now z". well this is not sc1, toss doesnt necessarily have more armored force than zerg does. the core meatshield are roaches while toss has zealots, so this would actually make tanks even more t>z than t>p. i think our goal is to make tanks better against toss but at the same time i can tell there is no way u can buff the tank to fix this issue. the only way we can do this is to make toss counters to the tank worse.

so for example we could start off by making marauders worse, how would that effect tvz? well for a starters roaches would be a slight too strong i think because marauders were the only unit that really countered the roach appropriately and legit. so we would have to nerf the roach now, but i dont know enough about zvp to say if this would be possible. immortals is the first that comes to mind that would become too strong. ive read 95% of this thread and everyone seem to agree that our 3rd step would be to nerf the immortal. and now when the immortal is also nerfed the tank is better in tvp, alot better.

so maybe this is the answer, nerf the trio of the marauder, roach and immortal. its the best answer i can come up with at least, and it seems to be the general opinion by the community of 19 pages here.

1: we would probably see more tanks in tvp
2: massing marauders would be worse in tvp, arguably bad
3: roaches wouldnt control the game so much in the early game like they do now, they also wouldnt control the phase and timings of zvz which also seems to be an issue with them. they would still play a role as a meatshield of zerg but they woulndt be as strong against normal units or as weak against immortal which leads to less hard counters
4: tvt wouldnt change alot, obviously it would make marauders worse but they were already just a boost to the army to slow and attack from behind of ur marine line. it would be fine
5: immortals in pvp would get used less, this is bad but i have almost not seen any pvp at all, i hardly imagine immortals were so popular in that mu in the first place so i guess it would be fine
6: marauders would still be used in tvz to meatshield and counter roach like they are now
7: would encourage terrans to use marines more against zerg and zerg would find it more useful to make ling and baneling again. they have been distant of that lately ever since marines got longer build time

oh and abut the actual nerfs, i wouldnt remove stimpack or remove slow or anything like that. its pretty situational and it would change the effectiveness of marauders worse in different phases of the game.
for example removing stimpack from them would make them totally obsolete in later game, nobody would make them.

adding an upgrade for the slow instead of having it by default would just make it worse early game, and discourage defense of marauders or timing attacks in early and early-midgame
the marauder is good in all from early game until late game, so if we would nerf them we would want to do something that effects it all through-out the game.

the part i dislike most about the marine-marauder comparison right now is that marauders only take 5 more seconds to build than marines, which i think is bogus. the other part that encourages this mass marauder is that reactors take twice as long time as tech labs to build. these r the 2 changes they did in patch 6 i believe and ever since fe tvp with rines doesnt work anymore, fe in tvz is totally impossible. we cant rely on marines in early game anymore, blizzard made a good job at removing them from the early game phase

i would add 5 seconds build time to marauders. it would add a better balance in the time of the units in the rax, the reapers take alot longer time than marauders when they dont cost alot different. marauders cost much more than marines but barely take longer time to build.

the second nerf i would do to the marauders would be to decrease the slow. right now if u have a unit running through the map, a stalker, roach, zea, sentry, you name it man. if u see a marauder u dont have the time to run because the vision is so small while the marauder range is so big that he will get off his first hit. and thats all he need. i think many ppl think its a boring unit because it only needs 1 hit to declare its pray as a dead man. most units can make a run for it, its exciting to see if it can actually get away. a zergling running for his life while stalker run after with micro and blink. but with marauder its just 1 hit then u know its dead, no excitement. we want to nerf the slow enough that units like stalkers can run away from it even under fire, but we dont want to nerf the slow too much that it didnt matter in this scenario. the slow should give us extra 1-3 shots but not slow it until death. i think it gives 50% slow right now, maybe a 33% slow would be better?

the immortal nerf would simply be a less vs armored, instead of +30 vs armored maybe +25. thats a legit and solid change, it doesnt change alot but enough to say its fair.

the roach nerf could be as simple as giving it less hp or armor, it already is slow as hell and it already attacks slow with a fairly slow dps. what makes the roach so plain strong is that it has 2 armor, it shuts down damage from marines by 33%, zerglings by 40% and zealots by 25%. it counters low tier units too hard. giving it less hp wouldnt really change this fact so i think the best choice would be to decrease the roach armor by 1

i think its a bad idea to make tanks better to compensate for a possible marauder nerf. tanks r already insanely good. ive played all my lately tvz with tanks as my core unit and they just rip apart a zerg army, only counter seem to be air once u reach about 16 tanks. even tho tanks r not used in tvp i dont think that is because the actual tanks r too bad, i think its because toss has too many counters against them. charge, blink, immortal shield and extra dmg, hell even phonix counters them in a sense.

all im trying to bring to the table with this post is that if u would nerf the marauder, dont compensate it by making the tank better, its already strong as hell against zerg.

u might say to urself "alright so we give it +vs armored when sieged to make it better vs toss and now z". well this is not sc1, toss doesnt necessarily have more armored force than zerg does. the core meatshield are roaches while toss has zealots, so this would actually make tanks even more t>z than t>p. i think our goal is to make tanks better against toss but at the same time i can tell there is no way u can buff the tank to fix this issue. the only way we can do this is to make toss counters to the tank worse.

so for example we could start off by making marauders worse, how would that effect tvz? well for a starters roaches would be a slight too strong i think because marauders were the only unit that really countered the roach appropriately and legit. so we would have to nerf the roach now, but i dont know enough about zvp to say if this would be possible. immortals is the first that comes to mind that would become too strong. ive read 95% of this thread and everyone seem to agree that our 3rd step would be to nerf the immortal. and now when the immortal is also nerfed the tank is better in tvp, alot better.

so maybe this is the answer, nerf the trio of the marauder, roach and immortal. its the best answer i can come up with at least, and it seems to be the general opinion by the community of 19 pages here.

1: we would probably see more tanks in tvp
2: massing marauders would be worse in tvp, arguably bad
3: roaches wouldnt control the game so much in the early game like they do now, they also wouldnt control the phase and timings of zvz which also seems to be an issue with them. they would still play a role as a meatshield of zerg but they woulndt be as strong against normal units or as weak against immortal which leads to less hard counters
4: tvt wouldnt change alot, obviously it would make marauders worse but they were already just a boost to the army to slow and attack from behind of ur marine line. it would be fine
5: immortals in pvp would get used less, this is bad but i have almost not seen any pvp at all, i hardly imagine immortals were so popular in that mu in the first place so i guess it would be fine
6: marauders would still be used in tvz to meatshield and counter roach like they are now
7: would encourage terrans to use marines more against zerg and zerg would find it more useful to make ling and baneling again. they have been distant of that lately ever since marines got longer build time

oh and abut the actual nerfs, i wouldnt remove stimpack or remove slow or anything like that. its pretty situational and it would change the effectiveness of marauders worse in different phases of the game.
for example removing stimpack from them would make them totally obsolete in later game, nobody would make them.

adding an upgrade for the slow instead of having it by default would just make it worse early game, and discourage defense of marauders or timing attacks in early and early-midgame
the marauder is good in all from early game until late game, so if we would nerf them we would want to do something that effects it all through-out the game.

the part i dislike most about the marine-marauder comparison right now is that marauders only take 5 more seconds to build than marines, which i think is bogus. the other part that encourages this mass marauder is that reactors take twice as long time as tech labs to build. these r the 2 changes they did in patch 6 i believe and ever since fe tvp with rines doesnt work anymore, fe in tvz is totally impossible. we cant rely on marines in early game anymore, blizzard made a good job at removing them from the early game phase

i would add 5 seconds build time to marauders. it would add a better balance in the time of the units in the rax, the reapers take alot longer time than marauders when they dont cost alot different. marauders cost much more than marines but barely take longer time to build.

the second nerf i would do to the marauders would be to decrease the slow. right now if u have a unit running through the map, a stalker, roach, zea, sentry, you name it man. if u see a marauder u dont have the time to run because the vision is so small while the marauder range is so big that he will get off his first hit. and thats all he need. i think many ppl think its a boring unit because it only needs 1 hit to declare its pray as a dead man. most units can make a run for it, its exciting to see if it can actually get away. a zergling running for his life while stalker run after with micro and blink. but with marauder its just 1 hit then u know its dead, no excitement. we want to nerf the slow enough that units like stalkers can run away from it even under fire, but we dont want to nerf the slow too much that it didnt matter in this scenario. the slow should give us extra 1-3 shots but not slow it until death. i think it gives 50% slow right now, maybe a 33% slow would be better?

the immortal nerf would simply be a less vs armored, instead of +30 vs armored maybe +25. thats a legit and solid change, it doesnt change alot but enough to say its fair.

the roach nerf could be as simple as giving it less hp or armor, it already is slow as hell and it already attacks slow with a fairly slow dps. what makes the roach so plain strong is that it has 2 armor, it shuts down damage from marines by 33%, zerglings by 40% and zealots by 25%. it counters low tier units too hard. giving it less hp wouldnt really change this fact so i think the best choice would be to decrease the roach armor by 1

i think its a bad idea to make tanks better to compensate for a possible marauder nerf. tanks r already insanely good. ive played all my lately tvz with tanks as my core unit and they just rip apart a zerg army, only counter seem to be air once u reach about 16 tanks. even tho tanks r not used in tvp i dont think that is because the actual tanks r too bad, i think its because toss has too many counters against them. charge, blink, immortal shield and extra dmg, hell even phonix counters them in a sense.

all im trying to bring to the table with this post is that if u would nerf the marauder, dont compensate it by making the tank better, its already strong as hell against zerg.

u might say to urself "alright so we give it +vs armored when sieged to make it better vs toss and now z". well this is not sc1, toss doesnt necessarily have more armored force than zerg does. the core meatshield are roaches while toss has zealots, so this would actually make tanks even more t>z than t>p. i think our goal is to make tanks better against toss but at the same time i can tell there is no way u can buff the tank to fix this issue. the only way we can do this is to make toss counters to the tank worse.

so for example we could start off by making marauders worse, how would that effect tvz? well for a starters roaches would be a slight too strong i think because marauders were the only unit that really countered the roach appropriately and legit. so we would have to nerf the roach now, but i dont know enough about zvp to say if this would be possible. immortals is the first that comes to mind that would become too strong. ive read 95% of this thread and everyone seem to agree that our 3rd step would be to nerf the immortal. and now when the immortal is also nerfed the tank is better in tvp, alot better.

so maybe this is the answer, nerf the trio of the marauder, roach and immortal. its the best answer i can come up with at least, and it seems to be the general opinion by the community of 19 pages here.

1: we would probably see more tanks in tvp
2: massing marauders would be worse in tvp, arguably bad
3: roaches wouldnt control the game so much in the early game like they do now, they also wouldnt control the phase and timings of zvz which also seems to be an issue with them. they would still play a role as a meatshield of zerg but they woulndt be as strong against normal units or as weak against immortal which leads to less hard counters
4: tvt wouldnt change alot, obviously it would make marauders worse but they were already just a boost to the army to slow and attack from behind of ur marine line. it would be fine
5: immortals in pvp would get used less, this is bad but i have almost not seen any pvp at all, i hardly imagine immortals were so popular in that mu in the first place so i guess it would be fine
6: marauders would still be used in tvz to meatshield and counter roach like they are now
7: would encourage terrans to use marines more against zerg and zerg would find it more useful to make ling and baneling again. they have been distant of that lately ever since marines got longer build time

oh and abut the actual nerfs, i wouldnt remove stimpack or remove slow or anything like that. its pretty situational and it would change the effectiveness of marauders worse in different phases of the game.
for example removing stimpack from them would make them totally obsolete in later game, nobody would make them.

adding an upgrade for the slow instead of having it by default would just make it worse early game, and discourage defense of marauders or timing attacks in early and early-midgame
the marauder is good in all from early game until late game, so if we would nerf them we would want to do something that effects it all through-out the game.

the part i dislike most about the marine-marauder comparison right now is that marauders only take 5 more seconds to build than marines, which i think is bogus. the other part that encourages this mass marauder is that reactors take twice as long time as tech labs to build. these r the 2 changes they did in patch 6 i believe and ever since fe tvp with rines doesnt work anymore, fe in tvz is totally impossible. we cant rely on marines in early game anymore, blizzard made a good job at removing them from the early game phase

i would add 5 seconds build time to marauders. it would add a better balance in the time of the units in the rax, the reapers take alot longer time than marauders when they dont cost alot different. marauders cost much more than marines but barely take longer time to build.

the second nerf i would do to the marauders would be to decrease the slow. right now if u have a unit running through the map, a stalker, roach, zea, sentry, you name it man. if u see a marauder u dont have the time to run because the vision is so small while the marauder range is so big that he will get off his first hit. and thats all he need. i think many ppl think its a boring unit because it only needs 1 hit to declare its pray as a dead man. most units can make a run for it, its exciting to see if it can actually get away. a zergling running for his life while stalker run after with micro and blink. but with marauder its just 1 hit then u know its dead, no excitement. we want to nerf the slow enough that units like stalkers can run away from it even under fire, but we dont want to nerf the slow too much that it didnt matter in this scenario. the slow should give us extra 1-3 shots but not slow it until death. i think it gives 50% slow right now, maybe a 33% slow would be better?

the immortal nerf would simply be a less vs armored, instead of +30 vs armored maybe +25. thats a legit and solid change, it doesnt change alot but enough to say its fair.

the roach nerf could be as simple as giving it less hp or armor, it already is slow as hell and it already attacks slow with a fairly slow dps. what makes the roach so plain strong is that it has 2 armor, it shuts down damage from marines by 33%, zerglings by 40% and zealots by 25%. it counters low tier units too hard. giving it less hp wouldnt really change this fact so i think the best choice would be to decrease the roach armor by 1