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On April 05 2010 14:26 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 14:23 xnub wrote:
Only toss you can't go mech cause immortals rape anything mech. Ummm ... Ghost? Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 14:23 xnub wrote:
Also i don't know but i see tanks used ALOT they are the only part of mech that is in the right spot right now. TvT thats like all you build is tanks cause they rape MM to bits. Funny how I hardly ever see that in TvT in the replays I watch. Most is Marauders and sometimes only Marauders.
Then you are not going pure mech ? and also even with ghost emp immortals with mix of units still rape tanks. Mostly cause hellions only do good VS zealots so not much of a meat shield for tanks.
Then you don't watch many replays ? Started out with tanks and viks in most videos then when people found out the SCV bug was all spam marines and SCV and send them out with each other. Then now back to going tanks/viks tanks rape all on ground and viks rape the skies. Then you would see some go viks/ banshess.
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On April 05 2010 14:47 xnub wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 14:26 Rabiator wrote:On April 05 2010 14:23 xnub wrote:
Only toss you can't go mech cause immortals rape anything mech. Ummm ... Ghost? On April 05 2010 14:23 xnub wrote:
Also i don't know but i see tanks used ALOT they are the only part of mech that is in the right spot right now. TvT thats like all you build is tanks cause they rape MM to bits. Funny how I hardly ever see that in TvT in the replays I watch. Most is Marauders and sometimes only Marauders. Then you are not going pure mech ? and also even with ghost emp immortals with mix of units still rape tanks. Mostly cause hellions only do good VS zealots so not much of a meat shield for tanks. Then you don't watch many replays ? Started out with tanks and viks in most videos then when people found out the SCV bug was all spam marines and SCV and send them out with each other. Then now back to going tanks/viks tanks rape all on ground and viks rape the skies. Then you would see some go viks/ banshess.
lol I think we can make an exception for ghosts in pure mech.
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On April 05 2010 14:50 Half wrote:
lol I think we can make an exception for ghosts in pure mech.
hehe yep have to do that alot with mech in SC2 toss in the rax units to help it up
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
Updated the op with correct chronoboost stats - it's actually far more depressing that I thought!
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On April 05 2010 14:39 Rabiator wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 13:54 Rothbardian wrote:
Besides, Tanks just make your army immobile, and in SC II that is very bad. If you are going to be Immobile you better be packing a punch, and tanks as support do not fill that, especially against Protoss, and even moreso against Zerg. IMO the "SC2 requires mobility" comes more from the expectations of the players (who like charging in and busting stuff too much it seems) than from failures of the game. People simply havent gotten into the habit of playing a long containment game.
People don't contain because there is no reason not to simply attack. Units are too powerful on their own to need to hold position before attacking. This is NOT a player-side issue and is a design issue. Rothbartian is correct in saying that immobility is an even bigger handicap in Starcraft 2 than in Starcraft 1, and mech is simply not worth the cost. I've seen Roach/Hydralisk armies and mech armies demolish one another, except the Terran is nearly broke while the Zerg cannot spend resources faster than it gathers.
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Marauders need to die in one storm if they are stimmed.IIRC, they can stim and get stormed and STILL survive.
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On April 05 2010 15:47 hacpee wrote:
Marauders need to die in one storm if they are stimmed.IIRC, they can stim and get stormed and STILL survive.
No, I think they should be able to survive at least one storm. What they should NOT do, however, is kill a Nexus in 3 volleys in a group of 20 or so.
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On April 05 2010 15:49 LunarC wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 15:47 hacpee wrote:
Marauders need to die in one storm if they are stimmed.IIRC, they can stim and get stormed and STILL survive. No, I think they should be able to survive at least one storm. What they should NOT do, however, is kill a Nexus in 3 volleys in a group of 20 or so.
If they don't stim, they should survive a storm. Stim them and they should die in one storm, esp with the 45% storm area reduction from the last patch.
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Hyrule19135 Posts
I haven't read the entire thread yet, but what about Marauders only slowing when they hit life points (ie: not Protoss' shields). That would let Zealots get in closer to have a chance at doing some actual damage. And with charge they would be able to catch up when Marauders are micro'd away. Plus a buff to mech, like everyone said (and/or nerf to Immortal). Obviously this doesn't affect TvZ, but Roaches are too good ATM for Marauders to get a vZ nerf.
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All units above Tier 1 require some sort of damage and health nerf and more impediments to massing early, such as build time increase, gas cost increase, or supply cost increase.
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On April 05 2010 14:47 semantics wrote:
just get rid of the slow and really rework murderers
that's all i can think of so far.
How about making it an autocastable ability while giving the Marauder limited energy?
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On April 05 2010 16:06 lolaloc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 14:47 semantics wrote:
just get rid of the slow and really rework murderers
that's all i can think of so far. How about making it an autocastable ability while giving the Marauder limited energy?
This is actually a pretty reasonable suggestion. Imagine something like 20 energy per pop. Of course you could turn off the autocast if you wanted to save and prevent wasted shots.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On April 05 2010 15:53 tofucake wrote:
I haven't read the entire thread yet, but what about Marauders only slowing when they hit life points (ie: not Protoss' shields). That would let Zealots get in closer to have a chance at doing some actual damage. And with charge they would be able to catch up when Marauders are micro'd away. Plus a buff to mech, like everyone said (and/or nerf to Immortal). Obviously this doesn't affect TvZ, but Roaches are too good ATM for Marauders to get a vZ nerf.
This is actually a pretty interesting idea.
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Anyone who agrees with the comments about how Marauders need stim otherwise they'd lag behind stimmed marines need to play Protoss for a few games.
**Sarcasm** IMO upgrading Zealot speed should also upgrade the speed of ever other gateway unit such that when I move them they all move together. My sentrys in my Stalker ball always move to slow, and once I get Speedlots my Zealots out run my army. Call a WAMBULANCE **End Sarcasm**
Just put ur Marines on 1 Keybind and your Marauders on another. Your Marauders are supposed to tank for you, so essentially you only need the speed from stim to micro your Marines back and forth out of harms way.
Bottom line: Marauder's slow should be removed, nerfed or changed. No unit in the game is as overpowered as Marauders, even Roaches one of the most known OP units has less range and doesn't slow. Plus Zerg can't effectively counter Immortals since they don't have EMP.
Here's an idea, make it like the Footman Shields in War3. Toggling it should have a 5-10s CD, with it on your Marauders move slow and slow, with it off they move normally, but don't slow. This way you can turn it on to slow incomming enemy units, but you can't getaway once they are on top of you.
I understand why Terran feels that Mech Units are soo weak against Protoss and love hating on the Immortal. It's due to collateral damage from Protoss building Immortals to counter your Marauders. The Toss player builds a bunch of Immortals and essentially invalidates your option to go Mech leaving you building only bio. Make immortals counter what they are supposed to counter in TvP/PvT: Mech units, and Grounded Vikings. Simply reduce the health damage and cost of Marauders, and change them to Light units. IE Marines with Rocket Launchers.
Marauder: 75min/25gas, Armor: 1 - Biological-Light, 1 supply, 90HP, 7+7 vs Armored. Build Time: 30s
This would also help TvT as Hellions would have a chance to shine vs Terran Bio. This would make anti-massing tech AKA: Colossi and Storm effective to counter bio, leaving protoss with a viable route to counter MMM terrans, while still giving MMM terrans an out, via Vikings vs Colossi and EMP vs Templars.
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I'd be all for getting rid of damage altogether on the marauder, make the slow AoE (Give them another spell, like, gasp spider mine thats upgradeable) and give Terran stronger tanks.
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On April 05 2010 16:31 Railz wrote:
I'd be all for getting rid of damage altogether on the marauder, make the slow AoE (Give them another spell, like, gasp spider mine thats upgradeable) and give Terran stronger tanks.
So turn the Marauder into a spellcaster? I hope you're being sarcastic.
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How about:
Give the marauder attack to the hellion, same effect and everything.
Give the hellion attack to marauder which brings back the firebat. 
I'd be happy. It would give the hellion a lot more use. Also, the firebat wouldn't
be overused like the marauder now.
P.S. Barely read anything in this topic, sorry if it was mentioned before.
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On April 05 2010 16:50 Lunchbox wrote:How about: Give the marauder attack to the hellion, same effect and everything. Give the hellion attack to marauder which brings back the firebat. I'd be happy. It would give the hellion a lot more use. Also, the firebat wouldn't be overused like the marauder now. P.S. Barely read anything in this topic, sorry if it was mentioned before.
then it's basically sc bw again but T has to get factory to fight roaches.
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On April 05 2010 16:55 McCrank wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 16:50 Lunchbox wrote:How about: Give the marauder attack to the hellion, same effect and everything. Give the hellion attack to marauder which brings back the firebat. I'd be happy. It would give the hellion a lot more use. Also, the firebat wouldn't be overused like the marauder now. P.S. Barely read anything in this topic, sorry if it was mentioned before. then it's basically sc bw again but T has to get factory to fight roaches.
Yeah, that's true.
My plans always suck. 
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then it's basically sc bw again but T has to get factory to fight roaches.
Oh NOES, that's just plain unfair. A race has to tech up to combat roaches...no other race has that issue, right? Oh wait...Protoss has to build Immortals from a Robo Facility...shit I guess there goes game balance and fairness.
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EPT
