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On April 05 2010 04:29 lololol wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 04:14 -orb- wrote:
I don't think you understand chrono boost correctly. Stalker is 42 without chrono, 30 with. Immortal is 40 without, 28 with. It's not 50% reduced build time, it's 50% increased building speed, AKA 25% reduced build time.
I even tested this in a custom game. The build time for stalkers was 42 seconds and 30 with chrono (no idea why there's the 2 second discrepancy). The build time for immortals was 40 seconds and 28 with chrono.
Please fix this in the OP, you're making it seem like protoss could get out a stalker in a reasonable about of time in comparison to the marauder. 50% faster means 33.(3)% less buildtime, not 25%. Having units build 100% faster results in 50% buildtime, but simply halving the speed % will not give you the right result in any other case, the most obvious example would be that 200% faster build speed will not result in 100% lower buildtime, i.e. no buildtime at all. 42 / 1.5 = 28 40 / 1.5 = 26.(6) Stalker cooldown is 32 seconds or 32 / 1.5 = 21.(3) with chrono boost, so the difference after toss gets warpgates is pretty small. Additionally, Marauder build time is 30 seconds, not 33.
Would you like me to show you the replay proving the times I wrote?
You can do math all you'd like but in the replay whatever time it takes it whatever time it takes
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On April 05 2010 06:49 Chen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 22:59 mTwLive wrote:
I've deep respect of the creator of this topic, but its plain wrong that Marauders are imbalanced in any aspect. First of all you got to micro your marauders, then they 'counter' a zealot in 1v1. And they will counter a stalker in 1v1 without micro.
But have you ever thought about not being stupid and probably building 1 zealot and a stalker? The Zealot tanks the damage and the stalker is faster than a marauder and will kill it. Even works 1Zealot/1Stalker vs 2 Marauder if the Terran isn't paying attention for a second.
Show nested quote +On April 04 2010 21:55 Senx wrote:
Why don't Protosses get Legspeed on zealots or blink on stalkers to counter mauraders?
stimmed marauders are faster than stalkers >.> they will kite away and your stalkers wont be able to keep all, all your zlots die then marauders just sit and rape your stalkers and how the fuck does blink help at all vs marauders? blink into the marauder blob so your stalkers get raped? blink away from a unit that has equal range to you? Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 05:16 yomi wrote:
There is a lot of hyperbole in this thread about the effectiveness of Marauders. Marauders only beat units they deal bonus damage to dollar for dollar. Marauders lose to Hydras, Zealots and Zerglings (with speed), and Marines. They beat Roaches, Immortals (with EMP), and Stalkers. not really... kited marauders can easily destroy zlots with charge without taking much damage while speedlots can surround maruaders and actually work, you almost never see charge zlots able to pull that off, so they just get kited and slowed and focused until they die.12 chargelots vs 12 stimmed marauders you'd be lucky to kill 2 marauders while losing all your lots. (200/50 vs 1200) pretty cost-effective if you ask me
Marauders are the counter to Stalkers i see nothign wrong with them owning Stalkers
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People just don't understand that the terran mech is too weak vs protoss. There is 1 problem: if they buff the terran mech, then zerg will be in trouble (because tanks are atm decent against zerg).
I am a platinum player and going marauder (+ medivac med-late game) doesn't give me always a win (50/50). I agree with making the slowthing an upgrade in the techlab.
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On April 05 2010 06:57 xnub wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 06:49 Chen wrote:On April 04 2010 22:59 mTwLive wrote:
I've deep respect of the creator of this topic, but its plain wrong that Marauders are imbalanced in any aspect. First of all you got to micro your marauders, then they 'counter' a zealot in 1v1. And they will counter a stalker in 1v1 without micro.
But have you ever thought about not being stupid and probably building 1 zealot and a stalker? The Zealot tanks the damage and the stalker is faster than a marauder and will kill it. Even works 1Zealot/1Stalker vs 2 Marauder if the Terran isn't paying attention for a second.
On April 04 2010 21:55 Senx wrote:
Why don't Protosses get Legspeed on zealots or blink on stalkers to counter mauraders?
stimmed marauders are faster than stalkers >.> they will kite away and your stalkers wont be able to keep all, all your zlots die then marauders just sit and rape your stalkers and how the fuck does blink help at all vs marauders? blink into the marauder blob so your stalkers get raped? blink away from a unit that has equal range to you? On April 05 2010 05:16 yomi wrote:
There is a lot of hyperbole in this thread about the effectiveness of Marauders. Marauders only beat units they deal bonus damage to dollar for dollar. Marauders lose to Hydras, Zealots and Zerglings (with speed), and Marines. They beat Roaches, Immortals (with EMP), and Stalkers. not really... kited marauders can easily destroy zlots with charge without taking much damage while speedlots can surround maruaders and actually work, you almost never see charge zlots able to pull that off, so they just get kited and slowed and focused until they die.12 chargelots vs 12 stimmed marauders you'd be lucky to kill 2 marauders while losing all your lots. (200/50 vs 1200) pretty cost-effective if you ask me Marauders are the counter to Stalkers i see nothign wrong with them owning Stalkers
neither do i, but some idiot suggested blink with stalkers would somehow do something against marauders. i fail to see how blink would help in the slightest
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why don't we give zealots an attack buff vs armored units? that way you don't mess up the zerg and zealots can counter them better. I mean zealots do have freakin laser swords I think that should cut through armor with ease.
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On April 05 2010 06:58 lew wrote:
People just don't understand that the terran mech is too weak vs protoss. There is 1 problem: if they buff the terran mech, then zerg will be in trouble (because tanks are atm decent against zerg).
I am a platinum player and going marauder (+ medivac med-late game) doesn't give me always a win (50/50). I agree with making the slowthing an upgrade in the techlab.
for the mech thing kill the Thor toss it away allready and bring back the cobra mech fixed weeee.
As for slow as upgrade you still have the same problem with Marauders kiteing zealots and zerglings when they get it. These units are made to be the counter of marauders if you leave it as a upgrade they still will counter them when the players gets it and they will get its as soon as they can. Problem still there /shrug. Again make zealots and Zerglings immune to slow problem solved
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On April 05 2010 07:05 xnub wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 06:58 lew wrote:
People just don't understand that the terran mech is too weak vs protoss. There is 1 problem: if they buff the terran mech, then zerg will be in trouble (because tanks are atm decent against zerg).
I am a platinum player and going marauder (+ medivac med-late game) doesn't give me always a win (50/50). I agree with making the slowthing an upgrade in the techlab. for the mech thing kill the Thor toss it away allready and bring back the cobra mech fixed weeee. As for slow as upgrade you still have the same problem with Marauders kiteing zealots and zerglings when they get it. These units are made to be the counter of marauders if you leave it as a upgrade they still will counter them when the players gets it and they will get its as soon as they can. Problem still there /shrug. Again make zealots and Zerglings immune to slow problem solved
There isn't a problem. At all. Slow is fine. They'd suck badly without it. Speed for lings / charge for zeals directly counter stim. Additionally, immortals/hydras shit ALL OVER marauders for cost. Immortals 3 hit a marauder, and marauders shouldn't even bother vs hydras.
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On April 05 2010 07:05 xnub wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 06:58 lew wrote:
People just don't understand that the terran mech is too weak vs protoss. There is 1 problem: if they buff the terran mech, then zerg will be in trouble (because tanks are atm decent against zerg).
I am a platinum player and going marauder (+ medivac med-late game) doesn't give me always a win (50/50). I agree with making the slowthing an upgrade in the techlab. for the mech thing kill the Thor toss it away allready and bring back the cobra mech fixed weeee. As for slow as upgrade you still have the same problem with Marauders kiteing zealots and zerglings when they get it. These units are made to be the counter of marauders if you leave it as a upgrade they still will counter them when the players gets it and they will get its as soon as they can. Problem still there /shrug. Again make zealots and Zerglings immune to slow problem solved
if you really think lings (or even zeals once they have charge) have a problem vs marauders you should just never post again on balance.
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I've been saying 1 thing from Day1 of the Beta: Make Tanks better! ^^'
Tanks should be the way to go against Protoss but they are not, because they pretty much suck. ^^'
T should play defensively with Tanks, wall-in's, Turrets and slowly push forward, which would be a good strategy if Tanks were good. Instead, we get Marauder-massing "par excellence". Latest example: Zotac Cup Game Miou VS TheLittleOne. TLO played great (yeah, he should've switched tech to Immortals) with Collossi-Drops, High-yield-counterexe and many different Units and Miou just massed Marauders - not because he is a massing noob like many ppl wrote in the noobchat, but because it was simlpy the best option!
You can't go Marines because of Collo's, Hellions aren't as good either, Vikings are only good as counter to Collos, Thor sucks if you don't do cheesey Thor-All-in's against Toss and Tanks are just too weak. In all of my PvT's, at least 95% of the games, the vast majority of the Terran's attacking Units were Marauders, in the other 5% it was some kind of cheese with banshees or Hellion-Drops...
It's not only that I think Marauders are too strong, but as written above, they are pretty much the only Unit T can use against P, which forces P to make Robo and go for Immortals etc. all because of this stupid rock-paper-scissor-mechanics with huge DMG-boni and a few imbalanced skills (sentry-shield is imbalanced against marines for example).
Why not get rid of Bonus-DMG against certain Unit's? That way we wouldn't see the same Units every game and we could be creative on how to counter certain Units, not just be forced to go for Immortals against T or Marauders against Roaches or Hellions against Zlings etc.
back to the Marauder: As written before, the counter to Marauder is supposed to be the Zealot, which clearly is a joke because a Zealot can't even land a hit on a Marauder without heavy Sentry-Support. It's just a bit annoying that the Marauder does slow the target and deals a huge amount of DMG while having a lot of health, so it would be a good Idea making him more of a support-Unit to kinda slow Units to pick stuff off while running around on the Map. maybe make it cheaper but deal a lot less Dmg and have less health?
I guess then the Marines and Tanks would be used more and with a slight Tank-buff, it should be no prob for T to win without Marauders as the heavy DMG-dealers (because Marines deal more DMG anyways). You would then have a nice versatile Army of a few Marauders to slow stuff, lots of Marines and Medivacs +a few Tanks, Ghosts and Vikings if the Protoss went for Collossi. I think that would be alot more fun to play with/against than just pure Marauder...
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Perhaps it's the actual slow that is just too strong. Instead of 50% slower unit movement make it enough to slow the unit down but not stop it dead in it's tracks(which is practically how it is now especially when you kite).
Another idea: how about lowering the range of slow but not the actual attack range of the marauder. Let's say slow only has a range of 4 but the marauder can still attack with a range of 6(how it is now). That way the first shot the marauder get's off won't have the slow effect on a unit, since it's done at max range, and by the time the second shot goes off the enemy unit will be much closer before it's hit with a slowing shot and marauder will have to get closer to units to truly be effective.
It's quite late so I might be missing something truly crucial but from what I can see this solutions biggest problem is it not being truly intuitive to new players(and we know how much blizz don't like that).
This would also increase the importance of getting speed to the point where it more or less negates the slow effect since the unit being fired upon is probably getting off it's first attack unslowed(zealots charge has a range of 4 and lings are just fing fast :D).
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Prior to beta, I was excited at the idea of Marauders. I really disliked the fact how Terran gameplay in SC1 revolved almost exclusively around Mech (Siege Tanks in particular; obviously, TvZ was an exception) and I thought that the Marauders would help at diversifying the tech choices Terran players had by giving Bio some valuable flexibility. Unfortunately, as the beta proved, Marauders "solved" the problem by simply replacing the Siege Tank as the perfered unit of choice. So now, instead of facing the problem where everything revolves around supporting Siege Tanks, Terran gameplay has the issue of everything revolving around supporting Marauders. While Mech in SC2 is much more of a viable alternative compared to Bio in BW, the Marauder has so many advantages to it that Terran players usually perfer to just go for some type of Marauder build.
As should be evident from my first paragraph, I definitely do not want to see this remain the case when the game goes retail. So I consider this an important issue that must be resolved as soon as possible. And while other aspects would need to be buffed/nerfed as well in order to maintain a satisfactory balance, something needs to be done to the Marauder directly.
One thing that should be changed regardless of everything else is slow. I was actually suprised to find out that Marauders slow all ground units, especially since it once only worked against Biological units. But even against Biological, it is too strong in it's current state as Zealots stand very little fighting chance against them. While I would advocate outright removing it, there is the gameplay aspect of allowing Marauders to be able to micro against Zealots to consider. But I do not think a cooldown would solve the original issue at all. So in my opinion, the best solution would probably be to reduce the effectiveness of slow (perhaps reduce it to 25% reduction instead of 50%?). But if that does not work, then it should be removed completely.
Stim is also a preety oddball issue. I mean, I really found it weird that Blizzard put the Stimpack ability on Marauders....but not on Reapers, for whom it would make sense to have it (both gameplay and lore-wise) and who would need it to make them more useful outside of being an early opening. Regardless of that, there are two ways Marauders can be changed in this case:
a) Keep Stim, but reduce their hitpoints and/or armour (25 seems reasonable, although perhaps they could go as far as 35)
OR
b) Keep the current hitpoints and/or armour, but remove Stim
To be honest, with all it's other benefits, I was amazed that they even gave Marauders stim to begin with. But I suppose Blizzard does want to increase their micro potential.
While we are at it, Marauder's damage might need revision as well. Even if we ignore the issue of Terrans massing Marauders, it is perhaps a bit much that half of their damage is a bonus against Armoured. Instead of 10+10, perhaps 12+5 would be more suitable?
As for changes outside the Marauder directly, I do not necessarilly think that other Terran trees necessarilly need a buff. Infact, compared to how things were in the original SC with Bio and Air, I think Mech and Air in SC2 hold up preety well. I think the main problem with Terran gameplay is both that the Marauders are too good and that other races have too many strong options against other tech trees. The Immortal is the most noticable one here. With Hardened Shields and base 20 damage, it is already a failry formidable unit....but a +30 bonus against Armoured just makes it ridiculous. So aside from Marauders, that needs to be changed as well.
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I feel that everyone seems to be saying that Terrans NEED Mauraders b.c they'd lose to roaches w/o them and that they have nothing else.
Each unit should serve a purpose a specific purpose from:
- Easy to mass due to no gas cost (ie Lings, Marines, Zealots)
- All around solid units (Hydras, Stalkers??)
- Harassment (Reapers, Hellions, Lings, Stalkers??, Mutas, Banshees, DTs)
- Anti-Armored (Mauraders, Immortals)
- Anti-Air (Corrupters, Marines, Stalkers??, Pheonixes, Vikings)
- Air units (Void Rays, Banshees, Mutas, etc.)
- Late Game / Capital Ships: (BCs, Broodlords, Ultras, Carriers)
The main issue is:
If for each of those unit roles, there are units that cost effectively counter them. Eg. Immortals vs tanks, thors, roaches, Ultras. Templars/Colossi vs Marines, Hydras, Lings. And so on for each units and it's respective counter.
BUT mauraders are not just an anti-armored unit they beat unarmored units toe to toe as well.
That is the biggest issue.
All this complaints about Immortals. Protoss does not mass Immortals when Terran masses Marines/banshees/BCs or when Zerg masses hydras/lings/mutas. They are a "hard" counter but they are not efficient vs units they are not designed to counter. Find me a high level replay where Toss masses immortals vs non-armored units. It doesn't happen. All the Immortal complaints are b.c. vs mass maruaders we end up being forced to build immortals. So then u build ghosts which make immortals much weaker and continue to build marauders.
Terran should be reacting to the other races, much like Zerg transitions away from roaches when faces with Immortals, away from hydras when faced with Colossi and storm, etc. If you build nothing but 1 unit with a few support units I should realistically be able to counter what you are doing effectively. By effectively I mean w/o spending tons of min/gas in upgrades, teching 2 tiers above you or building units that at cost for cost lose to what they are supposed to counter. AND should i have to spend a lot in upgrades, tech or situational units. I should really be countering what you are doing.
At the moment this is what PvT looks like:
Protoss: Massing Zealots
Terran: Make more Marauders.
Protoss: Going for Stalkers
Terran: Make more Marauders.
Protoss: Building Immortals
Terran: Make more Marauders...tech to ghosts if not already there.
Protoss: Building Colossi
Terran: Make more Marauders...use their already existing starport reactor to produce vikings.
Protoss: Making Templars
Terran: Oh shit Templars...meh make more Marauders...Micro them, use some ghosts if needed
Protoss: Hmm maybe Speedlots + Sentrys + Colossi would work?
Terran: ROFL, MOAR Marauders + Stim = I Win
The game continues until Protoss has lost too many units and is overrun or terran uses his advantage to expand and out Macros the toss player.
SO WHAT IS THE SOLUTION?!?
NOTE: These are independent solutions. That means pick one or two of them, do not assess the viability of them based on ALL being used.
NERF Terran
1) Nerf Marauders: less HP, no Stim, less Movespeed, No/Upgraded Slow, lower light damage (Ie instead of 10+10 go with 7+13) etc. PICK ONE or TWO.
2) Nerf EMP: Why? EMP is the #1 reason the intended Marauder counter FAILS. Either have it reduces shield by 50% up to X (more than 100). Or have it as an AoE over time effect, IE A field of EMP that drains X shields over Y seconds, but can be Microed out of. Much like players can micro out of Storm. (other options exists on the Protoss buff side)
WHY? - ATM Terran are relying on a single unit too much, nerf that unit and buff their mech units to encourage them to switch to other units once their marauder mass was countered. Or a nerf to the effectiveness EMP so Immortals can correctly counter Marauders.
BUFF TOSS
1) Buff Zealot Speed: Remove the research on Charge or make it so Zealots have Charge, but no speed until upgraded or vice-versa.
2) Buff Stalkers: Blink as base, or upgraded from Cyber Core. Increase their upgraded damage to armored. ATM they receive +1 Damage (+0 Bonus) from a given upgrade this is insufficient late game. For base blink I think it acceptable for nerf to their range from 6 -> 5 and a researchable bonus to bring that their range back to 6.
3) Buff Immortals: Yes I said it! Specifically buff the Hardened Shield ability such that the unit is less affected by EMP or unaffected at all. I could be a researched buff from the Robo Facility. OR increase it's shields and reduce it's hitpoints such that it's shields are not annihilated by EMP.
4) Buff Shield Research: Make it so each point in Shields increases it's Armor by 1 AND reduces the effect of spells (or just EMP) on that unit by X%.
WHY? If Terrans truly cannot survive w/o their current Marauders then the only solution is to buff protoss such that they can either counter Mass Marauders with something other than Mass Void Rays (lawl).
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On April 05 2010 07:17 BeMannerDuPenner wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 07:05 xnub wrote:On April 05 2010 06:58 lew wrote:
People just don't understand that the terran mech is too weak vs protoss. There is 1 problem: if they buff the terran mech, then zerg will be in trouble (because tanks are atm decent against zerg).
I am a platinum player and going marauder (+ medivac med-late game) doesn't give me always a win (50/50). I agree with making the slowthing an upgrade in the techlab. for the mech thing kill the Thor toss it away allready and bring back the cobra mech fixed weeee. As for slow as upgrade you still have the same problem with Marauders kiteing zealots and zerglings when they get it. These units are made to be the counter of marauders if you leave it as a upgrade they still will counter them when the players gets it and they will get its as soon as they can. Problem still there /shrug. Again make zealots and Zerglings immune to slow problem solved if you really think lings (or even zeals once they have charge) have a problem vs marauders you should just never post again on balance.
Zerglings with speed no to small and to many so they have no problem zerglings without speed harder and can be kited a bit till killed off a good # then stop and fight. Make it easyer and make them counter it make them immune to slow.
For zealots yes without charge they are worthless vs Marauders. With charge they are meh they can still be kited a bit with the charge on a CD. But agian problem is early game charge is mid gameish. By the time most toss get it its over casue of the spam marauders.
If you think the units that are made to counter them counter them you should stop posting lol.
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I still don't get why charge is so expensive its only use is to make zealots not a total waste of minerals in mid/late game.
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Lots of these post don't seem to not take other Races into account when you say buff this nerf that. Need to think of all 3 races here just not the races you play with ...
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On April 05 2010 06:56 -orb- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2010 04:29 lololol wrote:On April 05 2010 04:14 -orb- wrote:
I don't think you understand chrono boost correctly. Stalker is 42 without chrono, 30 with. Immortal is 40 without, 28 with. It's not 50% reduced build time, it's 50% increased building speed, AKA 25% reduced build time.
I even tested this in a custom game. The build time for stalkers was 42 seconds and 30 with chrono (no idea why there's the 2 second discrepancy). The build time for immortals was 40 seconds and 28 with chrono.
Please fix this in the OP, you're making it seem like protoss could get out a stalker in a reasonable about of time in comparison to the marauder. 50% faster means 33.(3)% less buildtime, not 25%. Having units build 100% faster results in 50% buildtime, but simply halving the speed % will not give you the right result in any other case, the most obvious example would be that 200% faster build speed will not result in 100% lower buildtime, i.e. no buildtime at all. 42 / 1.5 = 28 40 / 1.5 = 26.(6) Stalker cooldown is 32 seconds or 32 / 1.5 = 21.(3) with chrono boost, so the difference after toss gets warpgates is pretty small. Additionally, Marauder build time is 30 seconds, not 33. Would you like me to show you the replay proving the times I wrote? You can do math all you'd like but in the replay whatever time it takes it whatever time it takes
I know times arn't based on the faster speed. I think this would account for the timing differences. I'm curious if the stalker comes out in 42 seconds without boost in your replay.
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On April 05 2010 07:44 xnub wrote:
Lots of these post don't seem to not take other Races into account when you say buff this nerf that. Need to think of all 3 races here just not the races you play with ...
Easy to say that you know.
I keep thinking, get rid of stim. It just too much. I wish roaches were even close to the lvl of marauders. On top of that, Z doesn't have anything against armored units, so Im not surprised all you see is roaches/hydras and perhaps some lings. It seems more and more think mutas are a very costy unit that is easily ward off by opponents (as P gets mass of sentries already and T, marines t1 counter them). Lings arent even real counters, like marauders counter roaches, or like how sentries counter mutas. Why? Get stim and roll over the lings, even with speed upgrade. And you need tons of lings to hit the marauder and for a while before it dies, even more so with heals and moving all the time.
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Lots of these post don't seem to not take other Races into account when you say buff this nerf that. Need to think of all 3 races here just not the races you play with ...
I don't know if that is directed at me or not, but I'll respond.
Many of the Marauder Nerfs proposes would affect the TvZ match up, so I proposed a few Protoss buffs that either will not heavily affect ZvP or will have no effect at all on ZvP.
The Zealot buff would more than likely not cause a big impact on PvZ though I could see having charge as base a little too good vs roaches. Perhaps have +speed base and Charge as ab upgrade would be best. Lings would still be faster than Zealots on Creep and building Zealots is a known early game counter to mass lings, so a speed buff wouldn't make a large difference.
The stalker buff does little to nothing vs Zerg since +1 Armored damage from upgrades would not affect Zerg's ability to go Muta, roaches are still > stalkers and Broodlords are uncommon.
The Immortal Hardened Shield buff would not affect zerg matchup, unless they made it a general reduction in the effect of spells/abilities on Immortals. Part of me feels a specific buff vs EMP would be highly unlikely.
Shield Buff would barely affect the Zerg matchup. And if it's only for EMP it would have NO effect on Zerg at all. I doubt the shield buff would ever happen, as a general anti-spell buff to all Protoss units would be too good.
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It seems more and more think mutas are a very costy unit that is easily ward off by opponents (as P gets mass of sentries already and T, marines t1 counter them). Lings arent even real counters, like marauders counter roaches, or like how sentries counter mutas.
W/o going off topic. While yes toss does go Sentry and terran Marines, Mutas are very maneuverable and an excellent harass unit, plus due to the "splash" damage they deal they are very effective though albeit expensive when massed.
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Problem is that Tier 1.5 units are much too useful for their position on the tech tree, and Tier 1 units simply cannot compete with units in Tiers higher than they are.
The average damage and hitpoints of units increases far too much as you go up Tiers, and especially Tier 1.5 units are too easy to mass relatively quickly.
Blizzard seriously needs to lower the overall damage and hitpoints of Tier 1.5-3 units and make these units harder to mass either by tweaking min/gas/supply costs and/or increasing build time.
Some overall changes that should be made are:
- Lower initial health/damage of Tier 1.5 units and increase one or more of min/gas/supply/time costs to make them harder to mass quickly.
- Lower survivability of Tier 2/3 units and make them even harder to mass by increasing their gas cost or increasing build time. Increasing gas cost and lowering Tier 3 units' effectiveness when used exclusively will encourage the production of lower Tier units to complement the Tier 3 units.
The specific numerical changes can be ironed out later. What I'm proposing is a change in the general trend of the game and its tech patterns.
These changes are general changes that should be made in a way that encourages using currently unfeasible unit mixes (mech) and discourages the use of only a limited variety of units (Marauders, Roach). Also, lowering overall survivability of units will place more emphasis on good micro rather than tanking ability of the unit. In addition, certain units should retain high damage output as long as they encourage interesting gameplay army control.
Only units I'd preserve are Tier 1 units, buildings, and casters.
People need to stop clinging to strategies that get them wins when the resulting game is both uninteresting to watch and unbalanced.
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EPT
