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On June 19 2010 04:18 Bibdy wrote:
I made one of these kinds of sheets, and then I started weighting scores for each unit with things like DPS, range, total life, speed, resource costs (gas vs minerals vs both), build time, whether it could hit ground or air, if it was an air or ground unit, if it had an AOE (and assumed it would do at least 200% damage a shot) etc. and just multiplying all these values (with different weights) together to get a total score.
End result was I couldn't find a way to make Marauders, Reapers and Void Rays not look totally overpowered and get the Mothership to not suck intergalactic space donkey dick.
well you are not supposed to make units see overpowered or crappy, if you have, cmon post it, would like to see
why do you multiply the DPS/cost for carriers, when the DPS already is for a whole carrier with 8 interceptors?
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Not sure why are there comparisons to bw units, but very nice chat
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you shouldn't get too caught up in pure DPS. that's just a way to measure damage. just because you have high DPS doesn't mean you have high damage, i.e. if you have high DPS but i have high damage, and i kill you in 5-10 seconds, does it matter that over 20-30 seconds you would've done more damage? it's a valuable stat but not all-encompassing.
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On June 19 2010 05:59 Herculix wrote:
you shouldn't get too caught up in pure DPS. that's just a way to measure damage. just because you have high DPS doesn't mean you have high damage, i.e. if you have high DPS but i have high damage, and i kill you in 5-10 seconds, does it matter that over 20-30 seconds you would've done more damage? it's a valuable stat but not all-encompassing.
You mean sustained vs burst, right? You make it sound like everything works like a Void Ray 
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I wonder why stalker have such low dps :o
I always used them a bit, but I always felt they were really weak...
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If you really wanted to add something, add dps/supply
It really shows where the insanity comes through on a more even playing field.
And stalkers are probably the most micro friendly unit in the game.
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On June 19 2010 05:59 Herculix wrote:
you shouldn't get too caught up in pure DPS. that's just a way to measure damage. just because you have high DPS doesn't mean you have high damage, i.e. if you have high DPS but i have high damage, and i kill you in 5-10 seconds, does it matter that over 20-30 seconds you would've done more damage? it's a valuable stat but not all-encompassing.
Best example of this I find is razing a base in starcraft1 with lings or ultras. For the cost lings did it so much faster yes if 2 vultures poped out of the the 2 factories and target fired a ling you would immediately lose the dps the lings were giving you however with ultras due to their higher cost you had less of them.
This is the nature of cheap units/ vs expensive units (for the most part) The cheap units deal more dps since you have more of them but since they die faster their dps drops at a much faster rate.
But in my example you are dropping a terran base that is apparently relatively undefended. So you don't have to worry too much about losing your dps because the majority of your units will deal enough damage to be worth it.
edited the quote (quoted wrong person)
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The ultralisk doesnt have the increased dmg vs armor in the bonus section
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I did a little math to see how much better Yamato cannon was than the basic BC attack:
Ground Damage Fully Upgraded: 13 = 57.78 DPS
Yamato Cannon Damage: 300 = 75 DPS (Assuming a 4 second charge-up time)
17.22 DPS difference
Air Damage Fully Upgraded: 9 = 40 DPS
35 DPS difference
Obviously it's far better even with the long charge time to use Yamato. I figured it was, but I just wanted to see how much better it ended up being. When you consider the 10 range of Yamato cannon as well, it really is no contest.
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Nice information here, thanks!
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On March 16 2010 12:36 obesechicken13 wrote:
Your calculations are all off by a lot because I don't think you accounted for the duration of an attack animation. Cooldown is the time between the end of one attack and the beginning of another. For marines in SC1, the attack animation was almost as long as the 15 cooldown.
Can someone please confirm if the cooldown time includes the attack animation or not?
If the animation is included great, if not then this DPS chart is probably way off.
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On June 24 2010 16:24 cloaked wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2010 12:36 obesechicken13 wrote:
Your calculations are all off by a lot because I don't think you accounted for the duration of an attack animation. Cooldown is the time between the end of one attack and the beginning of another. For marines in SC1, the attack animation was almost as long as the 15 cooldown. Can someone please confirm if the cooldown time includes the attack animation or not? If the animation is included great, if not then this DPS chart is probably way off.
He's simply wrong, Cooldown is the time between the start of 2 consecutive attacks. The animation is "inside" the cooldown and does not affect it, unless it's longer than the cooldown.
Marines in BW had their cooldown set to 15 in the game files. If the animation was added on top of that, then obviously it would've been set to a lower value.
In SC2 only the attacks of the Mothership and the Colossus can affect actual cooldown, but their attack time is much shorter than their cooldown time, so the cooldown isn't affected.
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Now only if Phoenix's had 9 Range :D
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On June 20 2010 04:03 goofoffjw wrote:
I did a little math to see how much better Yamato cannon was than the basic BC attack:
Ground Damage Fully Upgraded: 13 = 57.78 DPS
Yamato Cannon Damage: 300 = 75 DPS (Assuming a 4 second charge-up time)
17.22 DPS difference
Air Damage Fully Upgraded: 9 = 40 DPS
35 DPS difference
Obviously it's far better even with the long charge time to use Yamato. I figured it was, but I just wanted to see how much better it ended up being. When you consider the 10 range of Yamato cannon as well, it really is no contest.
I just wanted to clarifiy these numbers (according to http://www.broodlings.com/battlecruiser.php , now with some patches also (and a charge time of 3 seconds, not 4, as it was in SC BW):
Ground Damage Fully Upgraded = 48.98 DPS
Air Damage Fully Upgraded = 40 DPS
Yamato Cannon Damage = 100 DPS
So yeah, it is far better, even if you compare it to the fully upgraded Battle Cruiser, while Yamato Cannon spell is not very expensive to research.
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EPT
