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On March 11 2010 22:07 Tamerlane wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 18:49 DeCoup wrote:No you wouldn't. There is no overkill in SC2. Assuming that all your roaches are in range of all the marines, waypoing attack targeting every marine with all 9 of your roaches selected would kill them in the same amount of time as using 3 groups, because only 3 roaches will fire at each marine. If there were only 3 marines as targets, that would be true, but if there are more : your roaches will not "1 shot" 3 marines at a time, instead they will attack the closest unit to them, therefore spreading the total damage over multiple units instead of focusing on a few.
No man. If you have 9 roaches selected and waypoint 15 marines which are all in range of the roaches they will kill all of them in 5 shots.
The first volley will kill 3 marines (In an instant all roaches will be 'aimed' at the 1st marine in your waypoint queue, but 3 shots would kill it so the remaining 6 roaches will then be 'aiming' at the 2nd marine, but 3 shots would kill it so the remaining 3 will target and kill the 3rd marine in your queue). So the first shot kills 3 marines instantly. The second volley kills the 4th 5th and 6th marine that was in your queue in the next shot. It repeats this till all marines are dead.
There is no gain at all from using smaller selections with your waypoints as long as all your roaches are in range of all the marines in this example. This is true for all units in the game because there is no overkill. If you have waypoints issued they will always attack them in order and never attack 'closest targets'.
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One of the single best posts ever, thank you so much! :D
I just don't get it why they don't tell us the DPS right away in the game, instead of just the damage and some arbitrary attack speed 'rating' which tells us very little.
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This chart should include bonus damage to certain types of units.
Nice post though, good info.
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On March 12 2010 15:45 DeCoup wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 22:07 Tamerlane wrote:On March 11 2010 18:49 DeCoup wrote:No you wouldn't. There is no overkill in SC2. Assuming that all your roaches are in range of all the marines, waypoing attack targeting every marine with all 9 of your roaches selected would kill them in the same amount of time as using 3 groups, because only 3 roaches will fire at each marine. If there were only 3 marines as targets, that would be true, but if there are more : your roaches will not "1 shot" 3 marines at a time, instead they will attack the closest unit to them, therefore spreading the total damage over multiple units instead of focusing on a few. No man. If you have 9 roaches selected and waypoint 15 marines which are all in range of the roaches they will kill all of them in 5 shots. The first volley will kill 3 marines (In an instant all roaches will be 'aimed' at the 1st marine in your waypoint queue, but 3 shots would kill it so the remaining 6 roaches will then be 'aiming' at the 2nd marine, but 3 shots would kill it so the remaining 3 will target and kill the 3rd marine in your queue). So the first shot kills 3 marines instantly. The second volley kills the 4th 5th and 6th marine that was in your queue in the next shot. It repeats this till all marines are dead. There is no gain at all from using smaller selections with your waypoints as long as all your roaches are in range of all the marines in this example. This is true for all units in the game because there is no overkill. If you have waypoints issued they will always attack them in order and never attack 'closest targets'.
This is wrong. I just took a group of 5 roaches and queued up my own zerglings as targets--the roaches all fired at the same zergling, then all fired at the second zergling, then at the third etc.
Only units that deal damage instantly won't overkill afaik.
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I looked over the terran stats;
What I'm gathering is that Viking are more cost efficient A.A. than Thors on all levels.
Turrets are also very cost efficient.
Marines are also the most cost-effective unit on the board, but it doesn't take into account their health.
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I'm looking for an excel file with full stats and costs of sc2 units. Can someone direct me to it plz?
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Are these dps numbers/cooldown speeds for game speed faster? I'd assume so since no one mentioned, but I'd like to know for sure. Or if you'd have to make an additional calculation changing from fast to faster.
Sorry if this was said, searched through the thread and couldn't find it. Excellent thread btw!
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Question: Fungal does 4.5 dps and if a 45 hp stims it will kill him. But if there is a medivac there what is the heal DPS? And say if you got like 10 marines in a pile how many medivacs would u need to have them all survive?
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On March 13 2010 04:26 Tdelamay wrote:I looked over the terran stats; What I'm gathering is that Viking are more cost efficient A.A. than Thors on all levels. Turrets are also very cost efficient. Marines are also the most cost-effective unit on the board, but it doesn't take into account their health.
you are correct about the cost efficiency of terran AA, and from my personal experience Thors are a terrible AA unit
well, turrents do have to be cost efficient, they are immobile!!
as for the marines, they are the most efficient when it comes to DPS, but there is a quadrazillion factors to take into account for numbers to translate into actual gameplay, health is merely one of them
On March 13 2010 04:33 Cheerio wrote:
I'm looking for an excel file with full stats and costs of sc2 units. Can someone direct me to it plz?
you got pretty much all you need in the tables posted in this thread, apart from HP and armor, which you can get yourself (and share to the rest of the community!)
On March 13 2010 06:05 grmblfzzz wrote:
Are these dps numbers/cooldown speeds for game speed faster? I'd assume so since no one mentioned, but I'd like to know for sure. Or if you'd have to make an additional calculation changing from fast to faster.
these are the core values of all units, a game on "faster" speed setting merely accelerates the speed at which the game is played - if I can rely on the replay clock :
- fast has a 1:1 ratio with "real time"
- faster is 1/3 faster than "fast" (that is, 1min of game time on "faster" will appear as 45sec in reality, or if you prefer : 1min of gameplay at "fast" will take only 45sec to elapse on a "faster" setting)
therefore, if you want the real values you will experience in the game, you will have to multiply the entire DPS table by 1.33
On March 13 2010 07:29 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Question: Fungal does 4.5 dps and if a 45 hp stims it will kill him. But if there is a medivac there what is the heal DPS? And say if you got like 10 marines in a pile how many medivacs would u need to have them all survive?
the duration of fungal growth is a required value to solve this, as well as the healing rate of the medevacs - do you have those?
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On March 13 2010 21:55 Tamerlane wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 04:26 Tdelamay wrote:I looked over the terran stats; What I'm gathering is that Viking are more cost efficient A.A. than Thors on all levels. Turrets are also very cost efficient. Marines are also the most cost-effective unit on the board, but it doesn't take into account their health. you are correct about the cost efficiency of terran AA, and from my personal experience Thors are a terrible AA unit well, turrents do have to be cost efficient, they are immobile!! as for the marines, they are the most efficient when it comes to DPS, but there is a quadrazillion factors to take into account for numbers to translate into actual gameplay, health is merely one of them Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 04:33 Cheerio wrote:
I'm looking for an excel file with full stats and costs of sc2 units. Can someone direct me to it plz? you got pretty much all you need in the tables posted in this thread, apart from HP and armor, which you can get yourself (and share to the rest of the community!) Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 06:05 grmblfzzz wrote:
Are these dps numbers/cooldown speeds for game speed faster? I'd assume so since no one mentioned, but I'd like to know for sure. Or if you'd have to make an additional calculation changing from fast to faster. these are the core values of all units, a game on "faster" speed setting merely accelerates the speed at which the game is played - if I can rely on the replay clock : - fast has a 1:1 ratio with "real time" - faster is 1/3 faster than "fast" (that is, 1min of game time on "faster" will appear as 45sec in reality, or if you prefer : 1min of gameplay at "fast" will take only 45sec to elapse on a "faster" setting) therefore, if you want the real values you will experience in the game, you will have to multiply the entire DPS table by 1.33 Show nested quote +On March 13 2010 07:29 CharlieMurphy wrote:
Question: Fungal does 4.5 dps and if a 45 hp stims it will kill him. But if there is a medivac there what is the heal DPS? And say if you got like 10 marines in a pile how many medivacs would u need to have them all survive? the duration of fungal growth is a required value to solve this, as well as the healing rate of the medevacs - do you have those?
fungal does 36 over 8. I have no clue on the medivac that's why I was asking.
Just doing some testing real fast with an SCV at 5hp and a Medivac healing it to full it takes 4.16~ seconds (tested 3 times) according to my ipod.
A marine with 5 hp goes to 45 full hp in 2.99 seconds.
Which gives us about 13.5 HPS/DPS on heal
Also, a Medivac says it heals 3 hp per 1 energy, but I was trying to get it to heal just a small amount with fast clicking and I got it to heal less than 3 hp at times.
Also a medivac on empty energy will wait unil 5 or 6 energy to cast 1.11 heals (~15hp). This may be a bug.
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On March 12 2010 15:45 DeCoup wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2010 22:07 Tamerlane wrote:On March 11 2010 18:49 DeCoup wrote:No you wouldn't. There is no overkill in SC2. Assuming that all your roaches are in range of all the marines, waypoing attack targeting every marine with all 9 of your roaches selected would kill them in the same amount of time as using 3 groups, because only 3 roaches will fire at each marine. If there were only 3 marines as targets, that would be true, but if there are more : your roaches will not "1 shot" 3 marines at a time, instead they will attack the closest unit to them, therefore spreading the total damage over multiple units instead of focusing on a few. No man. If you have 9 roaches selected and waypoint 15 marines which are all in range of the roaches they will kill all of them in 5 shots. The first volley will kill 3 marines (In an instant all roaches will be 'aimed' at the 1st marine in your waypoint queue, but 3 shots would kill it so the remaining 6 roaches will then be 'aiming' at the 2nd marine, but 3 shots would kill it so the remaining 3 will target and kill the 3rd marine in your queue). So the first shot kills 3 marines instantly. The second volley kills the 4th 5th and 6th marine that was in your queue in the next shot. It repeats this till all marines are dead. There is no gain at all from using smaller selections with your waypoints as long as all your roaches are in range of all the marines in this example. This is true for all units in the game because there is no overkill. If you have waypoints issued they will always attack them in order and never attack 'closest targets'.
There is overkill in Sc2.
The only units that don't overkill are instant hit units (non-projectile).
ex.
tanks
ghosts
vikings (ground)
Roaches will happily overkill
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On March 15 2010 17:19 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On March 12 2010 15:45 DeCoup wrote:On March 11 2010 22:07 Tamerlane wrote:On March 11 2010 18:49 DeCoup wrote:No you wouldn't. There is no overkill in SC2. Assuming that all your roaches are in range of all the marines, waypoing attack targeting every marine with all 9 of your roaches selected would kill them in the same amount of time as using 3 groups, because only 3 roaches will fire at each marine. If there were only 3 marines as targets, that would be true, but if there are more : your roaches will not "1 shot" 3 marines at a time, instead they will attack the closest unit to them, therefore spreading the total damage over multiple units instead of focusing on a few. No man. If you have 9 roaches selected and waypoint 15 marines which are all in range of the roaches they will kill all of them in 5 shots. The first volley will kill 3 marines (In an instant all roaches will be 'aimed' at the 1st marine in your waypoint queue, but 3 shots would kill it so the remaining 6 roaches will then be 'aiming' at the 2nd marine, but 3 shots would kill it so the remaining 3 will target and kill the 3rd marine in your queue). So the first shot kills 3 marines instantly. The second volley kills the 4th 5th and 6th marine that was in your queue in the next shot. It repeats this till all marines are dead. There is no gain at all from using smaller selections with your waypoints as long as all your roaches are in range of all the marines in this example. This is true for all units in the game because there is no overkill. If you have waypoints issued they will always attack them in order and never attack 'closest targets'. There is overkill in Sc2. The only units that don't overkill are instant hit units (non-projectile). ex. tanks ghosts vikings (ground) Roaches will happily overkill
Do blings overkill?
holy fuck, imagine how good scourge would be in sc2!!!!
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On March 15 2010 17:27 CharlieMurphy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2010 17:19 sob3k wrote:On March 12 2010 15:45 DeCoup wrote:On March 11 2010 22:07 Tamerlane wrote:On March 11 2010 18:49 DeCoup wrote:No you wouldn't. There is no overkill in SC2. Assuming that all your roaches are in range of all the marines, waypoing attack targeting every marine with all 9 of your roaches selected would kill them in the same amount of time as using 3 groups, because only 3 roaches will fire at each marine. If there were only 3 marines as targets, that would be true, but if there are more : your roaches will not "1 shot" 3 marines at a time, instead they will attack the closest unit to them, therefore spreading the total damage over multiple units instead of focusing on a few. No man. If you have 9 roaches selected and waypoint 15 marines which are all in range of the roaches they will kill all of them in 5 shots. The first volley will kill 3 marines (In an instant all roaches will be 'aimed' at the 1st marine in your waypoint queue, but 3 shots would kill it so the remaining 6 roaches will then be 'aiming' at the 2nd marine, but 3 shots would kill it so the remaining 3 will target and kill the 3rd marine in your queue). So the first shot kills 3 marines instantly. The second volley kills the 4th 5th and 6th marine that was in your queue in the next shot. It repeats this till all marines are dead. There is no gain at all from using smaller selections with your waypoints as long as all your roaches are in range of all the marines in this example. This is true for all units in the game because there is no overkill. If you have waypoints issued they will always attack them in order and never attack 'closest targets'. There is overkill in Sc2. The only units that don't overkill are instant hit units (non-projectile). ex. tanks ghosts vikings (ground) Roaches will happily overkill Do blings overkill? holy fuck, imagine how good scourge would be in sc2!!!!
From my testing Banelings do not overkill DIRECTLY (more banelings will explode on a target than that target has health).
HOWEVER
Baneling splash damage from a different target is NOT considered, which does make them overkill quite badly in real play, getting a good surround with banelings is critical.
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ffs, this is all one needs to see how worthless stalkers are. lowest dps in the fucking game, excluding workers. this from a 125/50 unit. broodlings do more damage than stalkers >.>
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Your calculations are all off by a lot because I don't think you accounted for the duration of an attack animation. Cooldown is the time between the end of one attack and the beginning of another. For marines in SC1, the attack animation was almost as long as the 15 cooldown.
It would be nice if you could put this into a spreadsheet, then Starcraft PHd Students here could add on their own research papers to make a quick reference guide similar but ultimately inferior to cyclohexane's quick reference guide of AOE3.
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Awesome thread. Possibility of an admin stickying this? Can anyone confirm the fear that cooldown isn't including the animation time?
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Oh wow, SCV have as much DPS as stalkers do...
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SCVs been pumping iron.
Scourge were probably removed for that very reason, same as reaver scarabs and spider mines. imba pathing.
Again, thankyou testers for doing testing and not just wasting the beta away, you're all heroes. (don't forget to report medivac healing bug ^_^)
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whats the marine dps after stim
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EPT
