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Rothbardian
United States497 Posts
On February 28 2010 08:04 PredY wrote: well it's better to target fire the hydras rather than let the tanks target the lings and kill half of your marines in the process ^^ Must watch battles closer instead of focusing on Macro :p | ||
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Picture
Canada75 Posts
Probably not going to happen with the current direction the game's going though. On February 28 2010 08:04 PredY wrote: well it's better to target fire the hydras rather than let the tanks target the lings and kill half of your marines in the process Don't think that even works because tanks would autofire as soon as something's in range. Unless you can preset waypoints without getting the "out of range" message. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On February 28 2010 07:56 Chill wrote: Cool. If you just let them fire automatically wouldn't they do this anyways? What's the advantage to queuing manually? Does the AI do it normally? It seems hard to believe it would, given that 1) it would have to work differently (e.g. if you make the units force-attack, it's just a slight modification to how smartcast works, while letting the AI do it means that every unit's AI needs to know what other units are firing at to avoid overkill) and 2) that removes all focus-fire micro altogether, since the computer would optimize A-moved units' attacks. | ||
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gh0st
United States98 Posts
On February 28 2010 07:56 Chill wrote: Cool. If you just let them fire automatically wouldn't they do this anyways? What's the advantage to queuing manually? If I understand the OP correctly, you could get scenarios like the following: 4 tanks sieged vs. 4 enemy units (which, for the sake of argument, die in 2 tank shots). The most optimal tank "volley" is for the tanks to focus fire and kill 2 of the enemy units. It's possible, however, that each tank will fire at a different enemy unit. This leaves you with 4 enemy units at half health, and it's pretty clear why this is worse than having 2 enemy units at full health. I think this is why queuing manually is important. 'Course I could have misunderstood. I have no way of testing it myself. Marines aren't an ideal test subject because they die in one shot, I think. | ||
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Yamoth
United States315 Posts
On February 28 2010 07:56 Chill wrote: Cool. If you just let them fire automatically wouldn't they do this anyways? What's the advantage to queuing manually? They do? When I have the unit autofire, it seems like they just fire on the closest unit then more on to the next. I don't remember the game ever attempt to do any focus fire. | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
On February 28 2010 07:56 Chill wrote: Cool. If you just let them fire automatically wouldn't they do this anyways? What's the advantage to queuing manually? I was just thinking that too and wondering what the hell am I missing that others are so thrilled about... Then I realized that it does make a difference to queue manually, because if you don't they could theoretically each target a different unit and spread their fire 'too thin'. So, if you had 10 tanks vs 10 tanks, those which are queued manually will kill the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and so on in the most efficient way, while those on automatic fire, assuming they're not imba-tweaked too, could each target a different tank which would be a bad approach. Now, I pray to god they don't have a protection against spreading fire too thin  That would seriously suck ass | ||
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CowGoMoo
United States428 Posts
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Neak
United Kingdom124 Posts
It can be just weird coincedence though and i might be wrong of course | ||
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Fallen
Canada192 Posts
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On February 28 2010 08:30 CowGoMoo wrote: Just a result of tank damage being instant and there not being a projectile. They won't overkill a unit because they can't attack a dead unit... It didn't work like this in SC1 and tank damage was damn near instant. | ||
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Feefee
Canada556 Posts
On February 28 2010 08:06 TheYango wrote: I'm curious which units this is relevant for. As far as I can remember: Terran: Marine, Reaper, Ghost, Tank, Thor, Viking (ground attack), Auto-Turret Protoss: Immortal Zerg: None It seems that of those, only the Tank, Thor, and Immortal actually do enough damage for this to be of huge consequence, and even then, it's not necessarily worth using in all situations. Good to know about, but I don't think it will have an overly large impact on micro, especially since I haven't seen any of those units in large enough numbers that splitting damage manually would be especially hard. If "this" refers to a no-overkill mechanic then you forgot about the unit it matters the most for: the baneling. 's one of the big reasons why banelings are much more masseable than scourge. Well, splash damage being the other^^ | ||
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Teejing
Germany1360 Posts
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abyss
Czech Republic139 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
THE REASON FOR THE SHIFT-QUEUING IF, you are being attacked and you DO NOT target your tanks at all THEN Tanks will semi-randomly attack units coming into their range BUT never overkill, if 10 units that take 2 shots each to kill are attacking 10 tanks. THE RESULT: Possible outcomes are the tanks target all ten and bring them all to 50% health (worst possible), they double target 5 enemies and kill 5 (best possible), or any semi-random combination in between these examples. IF, you are being attacked and you NON-QUEUE target your tanks as fast as you can THEN Tanks will double target each unit you manually click and kill it.Obviously you will target five enemies and kill these five. HOWEVER, you cannot click nearly as fast as the computer can process targets, you will end up spamming right click moving from unit to unit for the entire battle, and if you are not clicking on the next unit you want killed by the time the first target is killed, the tanks will fire randomly. THE RESULT: You will end up killing 5 units guaranteed, BUT, VERY much slower than the computer can process targets, easy to mess up, and difficult. Try this, it really doesn't work well unless you have the mouse accuracy of Legolas. IF, you are being attacked and you QUEUE target your tanks as fast as you can. THEN The tanks will cycle through your queued targets MUCH faster than humanly possible without any possibility of mistake. In order to get a head start on the tanks firing, it is easier to start on a target that will take at least a whole volley to kill (say, a colossus), then queue up a chain of units, this will allow you to get well ahead of the tanks during the cool down. RESULT: With the first volley 5 units are killed machine gun style (as fast as the tanks can retarget themselves), and 5 units are already queued up to be instantly killed on the second volley. MUCH better. SUMMARY 1. With NO targeting tanks will not waste shots, and they will be very fast, but they will pick targets poorly. 2. With STANDARD right-click targeting tanks may waste shots based on human error, target slowly, but will pick targets correctly. Like I said, this really doesn't work,it's just frantic spamming due to the unpredictable cooldowns of large tank groups. Exactly like target firing tanks in Sc1, it was only done at the start of battle or to kill super high value units. Compare this to the efficiency of... 3. With SHIFT-QUEUED targeting tanks will never waste a shot, will switch targets instantly, and pick targets perfectly. raep | ||
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MidKnight
Lithuania884 Posts
On February 28 2010 08:45 Pokebunny wrote: It didn't work like this in SC1 and tank damage was damn near instant. It looked damn near instant, but it wasn't | ||
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bumatlarge
United States4567 Posts
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
On February 28 2010 08:20 gh0st wrote: If I understand the OP correctly, you could get scenarios like the following: 4 tanks sieged vs. 4 enemy units (which, for the sake of argument, die in 2 tank shots). The most optimal tank "volley" is for the tanks to focus fire and kill 2 of the enemy units. It's possible, however, that each tank will fire at a different enemy unit. This leaves you with 4 enemy units at half health, and it's pretty clear why this is worse than having 2 enemy units at full health. I think this is why queuing manually is important. 'Course I could have misunderstood. I have no way of testing it myself. Marines aren't an ideal test subject because they die in one shot, I think. xactly, not to mention good targeting for maximum splash damage. The marines are used for the example just to show off how fast the tanks chain through and rape them, its pretty sick if you try it. | ||
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CowGoMoo
United States428 Posts
On February 28 2010 08:45 Pokebunny wrote: It didn't work like this in SC1 and tank damage was damn near instant. near instant =/= instant I am just saying this is a result of the damage being applied instantly, and not some super AI ez-mode micro feature. I bet you could do this with Marines in SCBW. | ||
GHOSTCLAW
United States17042 Posts
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EximoSua
171 Posts
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