EPTDay[9].tv Daily - Page 23
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Scaramanga
Australia8091 Posts
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GTR
51515 Posts
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
GREAT MAELSTROM WHEN HYUK TRIED TO SNIPE HT  | ||
Kinky
United States4126 Posts
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zekie
Canada380 Posts
i'll post them here for now and pray for an answer  the questions i have were about the game you did, ForGG vs Stork on Byzantium 3. 1) ForGG's first push (the really bad one) he pushed into the middle and was mining up in the direction of Stork's base and you said that you don't mine up in the direction that you push. This meant to me that he was pushing into the bottom left corner to take out Stork's expansions instead of pushing towards his natural. I was wondering if this is the best idea because it seems like he would be very vulnerable to a counter attack once he pushed a bit further. Even if this isn't the case I'm assuming his main reason for wanting that position was to defend his 4th. anyway the main reason i was asking is why did he choose to push across to the expansions instead of to the main? I feel like if he got a more solid hold on Stork ramp area (where his mineral only was) that he could've taken out 2 of storks base just by having that position and it also seemed like a much easier and safer push to me. I guess I'm just wondering if my thought process behind this part of the game is correct. Thanks, Day[9]. | ||
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
You're the man. keep it up and you'll have career in SC2! | ||
motbob
United States12546 Posts
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Obzy
United States525 Posts
I can't really think of another spot to put this question haha. So me and my roommate have been arguing over a game played yesterday in the KTF vs SKT match : + Show Spoiler +Did Luxury going hydra den before spire in his game have purpose? What was it? I think that going spire before hydra den would have made considerably more sense, since he'd have the faster mutas to do damage to Bisu's nearly gas-less base earlier.. It obviously worked great the way Luxury played it out, so it's hard to argue. But why did he get a hydra den first, and why not a spire? Keep in mind I'm at best a D level player, and probably D- if I played enough games to average it out. So if I'm missing something obvious in its entirety, please help ._. I just don't understand the reason for the spire's delay. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
The entire SKT1 vs. KTF match. Some of the best games of the year there easy. | ||
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NovaTheFeared
United States7230 Posts
On November 10 2009 06:20 Obzy wrote: Am I able to ask questions here that may (or may not) be answered? I can't really think of another spot to put this question haha. So me and my roommate have been arguing over a game played yesterday in the KTF vs SKT match : + Show Spoiler +Did Luxury going hydra den before spire in his game have purpose? What was it? I think that going spire before hydra den would have made considerably more sense, since he'd have the faster mutas to do damage to Bisu's nearly gas-less base earlier.. It obviously worked great the way Luxury played it out, so it's hard to argue. But why did he get a hydra den first, and why not a spire? Keep in mind I'm at best a D level player, and probably D- if I played enough games to average it out. So if I'm missing something obvious in its entirety, please help ._. I just don't understand the reason for the spire's delay. + Show Spoiler + Typically you get den before spire when the corsair timing is too early for your scourge. That is, if you would lose too many overlords. I think in Luxury's case he got hydra to help fend off the pressure on the ground, all the zealots Bisu was making. Note that in the game faster muta would not necessarily have been better for Luxury. I suspect the main reason he was able to do damage to Bisu's main was that Luxury smartly morphed 2 pairs of scourge before the muta. The scourge scared away the sairs, and Bisu didn't see the mutas being hatched. I think he assumed Luxury was going for more hydras and that is why he had only 1 cannon in the main. If Luxury had no Den, there's no way Bisu would only keep one cannon in the main. In that case faster mutas would have meant lower muta damage. | ||
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Skeggaba
Korea (South)1556 Posts
EDIT: Argh, what bugs me out is that the stream keeps dying all the time ... Maybe you could upload them onto youtube ? | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Although all of SKT vs KT was great, most of the games were pretty straightforward without much need for analysis, I thought... Game 1 was pretty clear what happened (HoeJJa fucking sucked and kept messing up at every turn, whether it was flying his mutas right over Fantasy's marines, losing unburrowed lurkers, or failing to realize he was being nuked from inside Fantasy's base) Game 2 was also pretty straightforward, with Bisu failing to gain an early advantage with his build and paying the price later with that hydra break after the great muta harass. Game 4 had that orgasmic maelstrom+psi storm, but what is there to analyze about that? We all know Violet is the man and that won him the game. Game 5 was a sad one-sided showcase of FvT. Idra explained why Flash lost a bit, but a more detailed play-by-play analysis would be fun. | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8091 Posts
On November 10 2009 11:57 Hinanawi wrote: Seconding Flash vs Best. + Show Spoiler + Although all of SKT vs KT was great, most of the games were pretty straightforward without much need for analysis, I thought... Game 1 was pretty clear what happened (HoeJJa fucking sucked and kept messing up at every turn, whether it was flying his mutas right over Fantasy's marines, losing unburrowed lurkers, or failing to realize he was being nuked from inside Fantasy's base) Game 2 was also pretty straightforward, with Bisu failing to gain an early advantage with his build and paying the price later with that hydra break after the great muta harass. Game 4 had that orgasmic maelstrom+psi storm, but what is there to analyze about that? We all know Violet is the man and that won him the game. Game 5 was a sad one-sided showcase of FvT. Idra explained why Flash lost a bit, but a more detailed play-by-play analysis would be fun. My analysis (not that good) is that flash tried to amoury to quickly and when best saw the incredibly early amoury he knew flash was going to take a third so he just threw up 2 more bases, then when flash tried that cute timing it kinda worked but then best had like 12-14 gateways to 5 like 5 facs so when flashs army got trashed by 4 storms and bests army stayed intact, the small armys flash rallies to the middle just got crushed repeatedly | ||
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caldo149
United States469 Posts
 sKyHigh vs firebathero @ Tornado?(Part of the CJ Entus vs Samsung KHAN match) For me it wasn't very easy to tell who had the upper hand and the ending seemed rather abrupt. Since you did another firebathero game in the past this might be good to compare. It also goes with your non-Zerg theme this week. Thanks a bunch! | ||
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RaptorX
Germany646 Posts
On November 10 2009 11:57 Hinanawi wrote: Seconding Flash vs Best. + Show Spoiler + Although all of SKT vs KT was great, most of the games were pretty straightforward without much need for analysis, I thought... Game 1 was pretty clear what happened (HoeJJa fucking sucked and kept messing up at every turn, whether it was flying his mutas right over Fantasy's marines, losing unburrowed lurkers, or failing to realize he was being nuked from inside Fantasy's base) Game 2 was also pretty straightforward, with Bisu failing to gain an early advantage with his build and paying the price later with that hydra break after the great muta harass. Game 4 had that orgasmic maelstrom+psi storm, but what is there to analyze about that? We all know Violet is the man and that won him the game. Game 5 was a sad one-sided showcase of FvT. Idra explained why Flash lost a bit, but a more detailed play-by-play analysis would be fun. sorry my friend I really want a badass explanation of game 4... since there is this huge thread about how DA's are supposed to be the new trend anti 3hatch spire > 5hatch hydra thingy... I really want to hear Day[9]'s opinion on to this, about what could go wrong and what do we have to keep in mind as protoss since he is an excellent zerg player... Day, read this comment.... is a command!!! we toss, really need to see all sides of this story, we have been theocrafting a long time now and not many zergs have spoken about it, but after Hyuk vs Violet, I guess we HAVE to look in to this since after those 2 maelstroms zerg looked SO weak... I mean those HT's looked that they had infinite energy and were frying everything that moved, over and over again... zerg couldnt just stop this guy from walking like a king to his bases... If you havent take a look yet go to the theocrafting thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=103526 To get an idea of what have we talked about. :D I made a post in this thread and was SO excited seeing that violet did everything exactly as I said, not that he read my post or anything is just that it was the logical thing to do... and happened exactly as predicted, even though it needs a LOT of practice, and lots of game knowledge to pull that off... + Show Spoiler + On October 13 2009 00:34 RaptorX wrote: I think the idea is pretty good, we just have to play it over and over again until we refine it and find the best timing for it. Those complaining about "apm intensive" should realize that terrans and zergs require a lot of amp... then why in hell protoss should be the only "less apm intensive"... I guess this would help getting rid of the "1a2a3a toss player" joke. Storming requires good apm and maelstorm is the same thing... I dont see where the problem is. Also those saying that is "resource intensive" should read carefully. In normal bisu builds you make 2 DTs to harass, so... you check if you can harass and if not then you merge them, by that time your storm is already researched (or finishing) and you have 2-4 hts... you can start researching maelstorm soon so where is the big deal? I would say that the key here is that, your first timing attack should be normal, and you should keep your DA at home waiting for muta harass and gaining energy... after your first attack finishes and you get ready for your second pass (this time with HTs or Archons) then you include your DA in to the mix to punish the hell out of the zerg. Two scenarios here: He has a little clump of mutas to snipe your HTs, bingo you have a main use for your DA. Maelstorm -> Storm them and thats it, you have the upper hand. He went mass hydras or lurkerling, then you will play normally except for the fact that 1) you will try to maelstorm his lurkers *before* burring = instant win/pretty big advantage 2) he burried his lurkers but you maelstorm/storm his hydras allowing you to keep your obs alive a little longer and rape his lurkers... For me it looks like a win/win situation here. And no you dont have to hide your DA... when a zerg sees a DA he should be smart enough to not try muta harass or drop... which gives you little bit of time to macro AND you know that his "only option" is a contain, which you are smart enough to be prepared for it, right? | ||
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Day[9]
United States7366 Posts
DAs serve an extremely specific purpose: maelstrom on mutas. As a result, they make you extremely vulnerable if you somehow can't pull off that maelstrom. That said, the benefit they provide is soooo huge if you CAN pull it off. So, in other words, it will rely on a whole bunch of testing and time to see if protoss CAN consistently make maelstrom's useful, or whether it remains high risk, high reward. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
The price isn't insane. The blocking they provide late game is great since AI doesn't target them naturally. They curb stomp drops/mutas/hydra groups and are great vs everything else.. etc etc etcccccccccccccccccccc | ||
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kvilx
Poland198 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
On November 11 2009 03:16 {88}iNcontroL wrote: how the hell could freezing a large group of bio units for a short period of time making them vulnerable to attack NOT be useful vs zerg? Yes it is most effective against mutas but considering it absolutely works vs any Z unit.. I don't see any argument against DA use. The price isn't insane. The blocking they provide late game is great since AI doesn't target them naturally. They curb stomp drops/mutas/hydra groups and are great vs everything else.. etc etc etcccccccccccccccccccc I completely agree. For instance, Violet maelstromed Hydras and stormed them all to death during his push. DA's come to great use in the late game, so it's not like the investment is bad just because he doesn't make mutas. | ||
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