EPT1-Hatch Queen over-reaction, protoss counter - Page 5
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StorrZerg
United States13919 Posts
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PH
United States6173 Posts
On September 08 2009 04:39 dcttr66 wrote: you're right. the issue people are having with this whole thing is that the zerg can easily accelerate larva production to compensate for this. i think mostly the protoss players are fearing playing the zerg on even playing field... in fact, for me, zerg was always my number one race...but when it came to zvp...i was much better with protoss...and the primary reason is that the protoss race is better. but sc2 might be more balanced...we can hope. i'm pretty sure the new macro changes are perfect. the protoss get just an extra little oomph to mining effeciency...and terrans get a jolt at an opportune moment...it's their styles, and i think terran scvs always had too much of an edge with that 50 percent extra hp with in sc2 with mules not being quite as awesome as the protoss or zerg macro mechanics...it'll be fair. Your understanding of BW is not only really really bad, but it's terribly unfounded. Because you're better at PvZ than ZvP, you say that P is a stronger race? Please... -____-;; | ||
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SatouxKisei
233 Posts
On September 08 2009 01:07 Hot_Bid wrote: thanks, i won't be playing the beta though, i have school to add to that, i think they can re-balance the queen if they make worker scouting ai better (ie workers don't auto die to 2 lings) one of the biggest skills in BW was being able to keep your scout alive / killing the opposing scout, and by removing that blizzard is essentially removing a huge part of what separated good from bad players. eh , big surprise, big surprise...=/ ( to sc2 skill gap being what is it is ) | ||
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MuffinDude
United States3837 Posts
On September 08 2009 04:39 dcttr66 wrote: you're right. the issue people are having with this whole thing is that the zerg can easily accelerate larva production to compensate for this. i think mostly the protoss players are fearing playing the zerg on even playing field... in fact, for me, zerg was always my number one race...but when it came to zvp...i was much better with protoss...and the primary reason is that the protoss race is better. but sc2 might be more balanced...we can hope. i'm pretty sure the new macro changes are perfect. the protoss get just an extra little oomph to mining effeciency...and terrans get a jolt at an opportune moment...it's their styles, and i think terran scvs always had too much of an edge with that 50 percent extra hp with in sc2 with mules not being quite as awesome as the protoss or zerg macro mechanics...it'll be fair. PvZ used to be the most imba matchup in favor of z until a guy with the id bisu came and showed how it can be balanced by playing one of the best zergs of the time. PvZ is still one of the hardest matchups to play with only bisu excelling at the match up and jangbi/stork coming in tied for 2nd in the matchup. | ||
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lynx.oblige
Sierra Leone2268 Posts
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
On September 07 2009 19:01 Shiladie wrote: Also, Karune mentioned how Blizzard has a weekly Thursday "Game Night" where a large portion of the SC2 team + others gets together in the theater for a series of matches where different people practice shoutcasting the matches. It also is where they see the more creative BOs come out for the current build, as the different employees want to win on-stage, practicing and researching the current version for what will work. Those bastards. They are just having a great old time aren't they... | ||
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Amph
Italy31 Posts
and with terran u can make a a FE + a wall in the second choke(if the map have it),bunker+rax and then make fast rauders and go to the zerg and it's not even important for me if u do a fe or rush, i always go for fe+ 2°choke wall+workers behind, and u can't destroy it with lings... i don't think is unbalanced at all... | ||
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
On September 08 2009 10:23 eshlow wrote: The problem here is this: 1. Early couple lings + Q kill his scout 2. Overload is in toss base/at his ramp 3. Some lings in front of his nat to contain + deny other scout When he moves out, you can focus on military production or build it concurrently while pumping drones because you knwo EXACTLY how many zealots he has. As zerg: 1. You know EXACTLY when he moves out. 2. You know how many zealots he has. A competent player will EASILY counter this. I'm not quite sure why you'd do an early pool (10p vs 13). When the pool is up not all of the first 3 larva or any have to go towards lings either. All of the queen's larva don't have to go towards ALL military or ALL drones. The fact that it's variable makes it very difficult for the toss player. I am not quite getting why you are saying its mineral starved when you can pump extra drones if you need to. The extra 12 larva (that Nevuk calculated from the mainpage thread) by the time the 2nd hatch would be up is MORE than enough to get enough extra drones PLUS military you need to defend a 2gate. Hes saying it because you always have the larvae to spend minerals on and there's no "free" minerals that you cant spend and can make a 2nd hatch with. I think that's what he had in mind. Also, drones are too good, but if you have too much its not. its like, if you have 9 mineral paths, 9 drones will mine x9, 16 drones will mine x14, 20 drones will mine x16 etc. | ||
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Amph
Italy31 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
The Queen doesn't prohibit an expansion nor does it compensate for one. The Queen takes the place of the second hatchery when the primary reason for building it is for increasing larva count. Later the Queen represents the third or fourth hatchery once the expansion is established. | ||
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Amph
Italy31 Posts
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dcttr66
United States555 Posts
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
1. is scouting imbalanced relative to bw? 2. if the queen + injection = equivalent of 2.5 hatch with full zerg production flexibility, is the cost of the queen WAY low? | ||
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
On September 08 2009 21:33 Amph wrote: yeah, but if u expand, and u must expand for have advantage over u enemy, mean that also the opponent will expand...cuz he know that u have to expand to have a real advantage; i'm sure u can't win 1 base vs 1 base...and also u can't deny the t and p FE How does Zerg not have the advantage? Z's will build six lings keep them outside the natural to force P's and T's to build defense. Then they will out drone P's and T's and won't have to spend any money on production buildings. Meanwhile P's and T's still has to keep their military up because who knows when the Z will suddenly switch to military and knock down the door with 40 hydras. | ||
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DefMatrixUltra
Canada1992 Posts
On September 08 2009 20:55 Amph wrote: exactly there is a saturation limit where, even if u have 50 drone u can't mine more minerals, just because u have more drone... And you reach this saturation way faster then either T or P because you are producing quad speed larva. And then your larva production doesn't slow down, so you can use your superfast saturation to produce an army that the T or P simply can't match. Honestly, when you are building your queen, what is the T building? First or second rax? | ||
Chill
Calgary25996 Posts
On September 08 2009 20:41 ProoM wrote: Hes saying it because you always have the larvae to spend minerals on and there's no "free" minerals that you cant spend and can make a 2nd hatch with. I think that's what he had in mind. Also, drones are too good, but if you have too much its not. its like, if you have 9 mineral paths, 9 drones will mine x9, 16 drones will mine x14, 20 drones will mine x16 etc. You definitely can get a second hatchery + queen. | ||
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citi.zen
2509 Posts
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Tsagacity
United States2124 Posts
On September 08 2009 21:34 dcttr66 wrote: There were a thousand extra tickets available for sat/sun. You could have gone if you wanted ok, i just wanted to say...the announcement for blizzard that sc2 would be at pax happened on the first, right? and yet looking at the pax website they were already out of tickets on the 31st. and the annoying thing is that this is where i live! hah...i just noticed all that. that's rather weird. i would've loved to get to play the game on friday. also, apparently pax is short for penny arcade expo. i guess i should figure out where that is if it's nearby...  | ||
zatic
Zurich15364 Posts
On September 08 2009 21:33 Amph wrote: a lot of "U"s Welcome to Teamliquid! Please note that here, unlike the rest of the internet, "U" is a letter, not a word. Also please read the thread and the ongoing discussion or you will just repeat what has been said already. Also, as you seem not to have played the game at all, don't tell people who know better what is possible or impossible. | ||
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Chill
Calgary25996 Posts
On September 08 2009 21:33 Amph wrote: yeah, but if u expand, and u must expand for have advantage over u enemy, mean that also the opponent will expand...cuz he know that u have to expand to have a real advantage; i'm sure u can't win 1 base vs 1 base...and also u can't deny the t and p FE Everything in this post is wrong. You can't attack P because he is holding his ramp, as soon as he tries to expand he is going to get runover by zerglings. You can win 1 base vs 1 base and in fact that's the entire basis of the huge article written by Hot_Bid. | ||
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