EPT1-Hatch Queen over-reaction, protoss counter - Page 2
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hacpee
United States752 Posts
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36400 Posts
i can't control the TL bandwagon having never played SC2 and crying QUEEN IMBA because my conclusion at the end is that Zerg early game is vastly superior than T and P because of the Queen being so much better than obelisk and mule. That said, I wasn't sure they should nerf it because we weren't sure how the mid and late game balance worked out. | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On September 08 2009 00:28 Hot_Bid wrote: obviously 1-hatch hydra dies to someone knowing its coming, its that they don't know its coming, its a virtual coinflip. i don't think i ever said its unbeatable, just that the Queen mechanic can put Zerg far ahead after early game. i can't control the TL bandwagon having never played SC2 and crying QUEEN IMBA because my conclusion at the end is that Zerg early game is vastly superior than T and P because of the Queen being so much better than obelisk and mule. That said, I wasn't sure they should nerf it because we weren't sure how the mid and late game balance worked out. Hot_Bid I just want to say that your article was very well done and you should continue to do them. Even if people will overreact. | ||
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Hot_Bid
Braavos36400 Posts
to add to that, i think they can re-balance the queen if they make worker scouting ai better (ie workers don't auto die to 2 lings) one of the biggest skills in BW was being able to keep your scout alive / killing the opposing scout, and by removing that blizzard is essentially removing a huge part of what separated good from bad players. | ||
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raga4ka
Bulgaria5679 Posts
On September 08 2009 01:07 Hot_Bid wrote: thanks, i won't be playing the beta though, i have school to add to that, i think they can re-balance the queen if they make worker scouting ai better (ie workers don't auto die to 2 lings) one of the biggest skills in BW was being able to keep your scout alive / killing the opposing scout, and by removing that blizzard is essentially removing a huge part of what separated good from bad players. That and auto - surround . They are making micro way to easy . I like BW mostly because i can micro well enough so that i can beat overall better players then myself because i have better micro then them . Ling runbys and small rushes will be a waste to do , because of a imba workers surrounding my forces . | ||
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dcttr66
United States555 Posts
On September 08 2009 00:41 Archerofaiur wrote: Hot_Bid I just want to say that your article was very well done and you should continue to do them. Even if people will overreact. ya i agree...gives them something to do, anyway. | ||
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sixghost
United States2096 Posts
On September 08 2009 01:07 Hot_Bid wrote: thanks, i won't be playing the beta though, i have school to add to that, i think they can re-balance the queen if they make worker scouting ai better (ie workers don't auto die to 2 lings) one of the biggest skills in BW was being able to keep your scout alive / killing the opposing scout, and by removing that blizzard is essentially removing a huge part of what separated good from bad players. Is there anyway at all to keep your worker alive once the lings have found it? Or is the movement AI just that much improved. | ||
TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
On September 08 2009 01:48 sixghost wrote: Is there anyway at all to keep your worker alive once the lings have found it? Or is the movement AI just that much improved. I think you can't keep your worker alive on the Creep once the lings have found it. I believe the Workers are all faster than non speed upgraded Tier 1 units Off the creep. | ||
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m3rciless
United States1476 Posts
In order for the game to feel like BW again, Blizzard should just fix scouting somehow. | ||
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Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
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iMate
Canada263 Posts
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Pufftrees
2449 Posts
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Grendor
United States70 Posts
I wish I could have played Karune with the queen hatch because the people I saw playing against him were way too slow with it, manually clicking the spawn larvae icon or just forgetting about it entirely - more importantly they didn't press their attacks during the right time window. | ||
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dcttr66
United States555 Posts
as it is...in warcraft 3 people will pick particular heroes because they know that they will always get the worker kill. an example is a mountain king...he can storm bolt so kill a worker for 75 mana. but, that does incur a cost. a better example is an agility hero. like the blademaster or a demon hunter. if your opponent went one of those heroes, you can bet there's no way your worker is getting away. all he has to do is right click on your worker. he's going to die. in fact it's really hard to scouts orcs as undead because of this. i think blizzard is probably aware that the workers will have to be sacrificed when scouting the zerg. i think that's ok. it totally fits the zerg race. On September 07 2009 23:44 hacpee wrote: From what I understand, the power of the 1 hatch hydra strat is the fact that you can be pumping drones while protoss pumps lots and they won't know you're droning up until its too late(when you have a overwhelming advantage). You see exactly what protoss is doing with your overloard and can build just enough units to defend an attack while protoss has no idea what you're doing. this kindof reminds me of undead vs orc where the blademaster dominates the early game and techs to raiders and wind riders and you don't know what he's going until it's too late. at any rate... i think you're exaggerating. the warcraft 3 scenario was awfully imbalanced compared to what it looks like sc2 is. | ||
Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
Unlike in WC3, SC maps have ramps. Even if the SC2 ramps are bigger, 6 lings will not have a problem blocking them I am more or less certain. And once a zerg has speed for his lings, probes have no chance at all when it comes to scouting. | ||
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dcttr66
United States555 Posts
On September 08 2009 04:32 FrozenArbiter wrote: The problem is they will be killed before they can see anything. Lings kill the first probe, then block the ramp (or block outside the protoss base to stop any new probes from going out) and now you are in the dark until you have air units. yeah...good point there. but with the improved pathfinding zealots should always dominate zerglings on things like ramps so this shouldn't be a big problem. yeah any kind of blocking i'm pretty sure will favor the protoss rather than the zerg, at least in relation to zergling vs zealot edit: well, if upramp zealots cannot see attacking/blocking zerglings that would be a problem...but i think melee range is always visible is it not? i think uphill no sight only applies to ranged units...or am i wrong about this? | ||
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HiOT
Sweden1000 Posts
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_Iron_
Germany2 Posts
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dcttr66
United States555 Posts
On September 08 2009 04:37 Lobbo wrote: I must just ask, is not protoss stronger in early game in bw? I mean if toss opens 2 gate they are far superior to a zerg who opens 9 pool. Is this not the same deal? you're right. the issue people are having with this whole thing is that the zerg can easily accelerate larva production to compensate for this. i think mostly the protoss players are fearing playing the zerg on even playing field... in fact, for me, zerg was always my number one race...but when it came to zvp...i was much better with protoss...and the primary reason is that the protoss race is better. but sc2 might be more balanced...we can hope. i'm pretty sure the new macro changes are perfect. the protoss get just an extra little oomph to mining effeciency...and terrans get a jolt at an opportune moment...it's their styles, and i think terran scvs always had too much of an edge with that 50 percent extra hp with in sc2 with mules not being quite as awesome as the protoss or zerg macro mechanics...it'll be fair. | ||
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