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citi.zen
2509 Posts
On September 09 2009 10:36 Chill wrote: You guys are ridiculous. Yes I could do that, or I could just inject larvae and end up 50% ahead in supply. COME ON PEOPLE, I know this is the SC2 forum but please use your head. All I can say is... you're a patient guy :-) | ||
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Duckvillelol
Australia1253 Posts
On September 07 2009 19:01 Shiladie wrote: Karune says he's at about 200 APM in SC2 and that he only really loses to David Kim Nerf David Kim! Nice post though, good info to think about. | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
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TanGeng
Sanya12364 Posts
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On September 09 2009 12:11 TanGeng wrote: Pretty much it sounded like SpawnPool -> Queen -> whatever. Was it 13 Queen or something like that? The lack of variety in Zerg opening was to suggest there is only one viable opening which is to drone to a Queen as early as possible. After that, the Zerg's options are open. Yah but what do you get after Queen? Is there still variety in the early game? | ||
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randombum
United States2378 Posts
The best part is that your opponent cannot scout this efficiently at all because of improved AI, and queen's ability to kill the first one. | ||
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Archerofaiur
United States4101 Posts
On September 09 2009 12:37 randombum wrote: The whole point is with that queen you get such a large production boost you can go all-in lings (if he didn't wall and turtle like crazy), massssssss drones without fear of getting run over. (with lord scouting when he moves out, and the large production boost allowing you to mass lings before he arrives at your base) A hydra all in (if he went for a FE or some variation,), or anything in between. The best part is that your opponent cannot scout this efficiently at all because of improved AI, and queen's ability to kill the first one. So actually the queen does open up lots of different early game builds. Your losing the 2 hatch build but your gaining a whole bunch of other ones. | ||
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randombum
United States2378 Posts
The 2 hatch build in SC1 is popular because you need it to produce larvae, not because the second base makes you mine faster. It does make you mine faster, but its Larvae first, extra base second. | ||
Chill
Calgary25987 Posts
We don't know what works to be honest, there simply wasn't enough time to try out everything. | ||
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Aegraen
United States1225 Posts
On September 09 2009 13:42 Chill wrote: Yea, because we don't know what does what there was huge variety, haha. Zatic really liked Roach Muta, I really liked Muta harass and Hydras, Hot_Bid usually stuck on one base and massed Zerglings or Hydras and then went straight to Ultras. We don't know what works to be honest, there simply wasn't enough time to try out everything. On that note. Still no Terran or Protoss report? It's been nearly 3 weeks since Blizzcon. Starting to remind me a bit of Blizzard ;/ | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On September 09 2009 14:02 Aegraen wrote: On that note. Still no Terran or Protoss report? It's been nearly 3 weeks since Blizzcon. Starting to remind me a bit of Blizzard ;/ Protoss report: Mauled by zerg. Terran report: Mauled by zerg.  | ||
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NastyMarine
United States1252 Posts
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Shadeye
Australia75 Posts
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Lumi
United States1616 Posts
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
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Shiladie
Canada1631 Posts
On September 09 2009 20:06 Kaniol wrote: I'm wondering - wouldn't simply attacking gates with lings from front make it problem for P? Just like you attack forge/gate in front of P's FE with hydras if cannon is too far from them. Since P has only 1 zealot whose task is to protect choke he won't even try to move it. But dunno, i didn't play this game and don't know timings, but I'd like to see somebody trying this on next opportunity the 2nd and 3rd zealot pops out before the shields of the gate go down if I remember correctly Most people have been making good points, and I do think that the 1-hatch queen gives a large level of flexibility to zerg early game, but I don't see this as something that needs to be fixed on the zerg side. The one thing I think is truly too powerful right now is the queen's ability to stop scouts early game. An easy fix for this is to reduce the queen's range vs ground from 3 to 0-2 If this is done a worker can dance around the edge of the creep better avoiding the queen who essentially can't leave the creep (moves reaver level of slow off creep) The reason the devs believed Zerg to be the weaker race is because they are having a hard time defending mid-game pushes from other races with the zerg mid-game tech. Also, it wasn't in this build I don't think, but they had said there is a build back at blizzard where roaches get the same move while burrowed ability infesters get currently. | ||
zatic
Zurich15355 Posts
On September 09 2009 21:18 Shiladie wrote: The one thing I think is truly too powerful right now is the queen's ability to stop scouts early game. An easy fix for this is to reduce the queen's range vs ground from 3 to 0-2 If this is done a worker can dance around the edge of the creep better avoiding the queen who essentially can't leave the creep (moves reaver level of slow off creep) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=101510¤tpage=All#18 | ||
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Postaljester
United States128 Posts
On September 08 2009 04:39 dcttr66 wrote: the issue people are having with this whole thing is that the zerg can easily accelerate larva production to compensate for this. i think mostly the protoss players are fearing playing the zerg on even playing field... in fact, for me, zerg was always my number one race.... lol what a surprise a player who wants to play an imbalanced game if its in his favor. Balance is key, on your side as well my friend. | ||
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dcttr66
United States555 Posts
On September 10 2009 12:31 Postaljester wrote: lol what a surprise a player who wants to play an imbalanced game if its in his favor. Balance is key, on your side as well my friend. you're talking nonsense. zerg had the problem of needing far more larva than they were getting. protoss could always build probes, zealots, and pylons simultaneously...if you max out mineral gathering rates at your bases you'll be getting your troops faster as a protoss player. as a zerg player you have to rely on your battle wits to win out. usually this means using mutalisks and/or lurkers with great skill. and sometimes it means rushing with zerglings with great skill...if you can't outright win the games by these methods then you usually jump to take the map and overrun the protoss with whatever...usually hydralisks or ultralisks. without the larva acceleration, it's very hard to get enough larva for drones, zerglings, sunken colonies, overlords...all the while finding the cash to expand and tech up without falling behind on anything. you see protoss can build only what he needs to defend, and tech up and/or rush whatever he needs to do as he sees with his scouting probe. part of the problem is the ramps. protoss are very strong on ramps. you take away the ramps, and suddenly zerg has a huge edge! but guess what? all the latest maps in sc2 are going to be ramp maps!! that means protoss will have that awesome ramp edge. so what does zerg have to compensate? the larva production. On September 09 2009 00:42 Tsagacity wrote: There were a thousand extra tickets available for sat/sun. You could have gone if you wanted oh...well regardless this whole thing was very short notice i think... :D anyway i was already at bumbershoot saturday...and doing something else on sunday... :/ but yeah if i'd known ahead of time i totally would've gone friday...i think the event was held on that day looking at the website...i'll just have to keep my eyes a bit more peeled i guess from now on. | ||
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Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
if FE 2 hatch is underpowered, then increase the Larva rate of Hatcheries. so that 2 hatchery Fast Expand is not necessarily worse than 1 Hatchery+Queen (one is just a Fast Expand the other is more military focused) | ||
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