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United States47024 Posts
On August 29 2009 11:26 fabiano wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote:
Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better. i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league
That shouldn't be an issue. If we equate ICCup ranks, and put Bronze League about D, then Platinum League is still A, and leaves room for Pro League to be equivalent to Olympic rank.
The increased number of ranks and bracket subdivisions allows for greater granularity, especially at lower levels, which is a good thing. It allows for a more fine-tuned knowledge of where you are compared to other people, and lets you set short term goals (because ICCup rank goals often end up being month or longer affairs a lot of the time).
Keep in mind that there will be a lot of people entering the league way below ICCup levels, since the average skill level in most other RTSs is much lower (I think it was D.Apollo that was the world champion at C&C, and hit around only C-ranks on ICCup).
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On August 29 2009 13:12 Fontong wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 12:28 Tsagacity wrote:On August 29 2009 12:24 madnessman wrote:On August 29 2009 11:38 zeppelin wrote:On August 29 2009 11:30 Tsagacity wrote:On August 29 2009 11:26 fabiano wrote:On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote:
Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better. i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league Bronze is supposed to be a weak league... Having a weak league is a good thing. I think you're grossly underestimating the millions and millions of newbs that are going to play this game at release. Probably all but one of the SC players I know IRL would rarely win a d- game. yeah, don't forget those numbers that even if you're a D+ you're better than something like 95% of people who have ever played starcraft, iccup C would probably be equivalent to the platinum league in this system as-is we can't really guess at what iccup ranks will translate into since it all depends on how many players there are, if pro players play on bnet, etc... I think he's just saying that today's D+ gamers are going to be fucking amazing compared to a lot of the crowd at SC2's release. Yeah this is definitely true. Even D+ players have a huge understanding of what the game is about compared to your average player, or even your average RTS player. I mean, pretty much anyone at D rank at least understands that you need a ton of workers, a single fact which will massively set them apart from people like, say, WC3 or C&C players.
For what it's worth blizzard is aware of that specific information gap, all of the "how to play" signs for sc2 at blizzcon encouraged players to make a large number of workers.
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I'm extremely excited for this. I hope it's active in beta, and I'm sure it will be.
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Everyone keep in mind that B- and above makes up maybe .1 or less percent of sc2 players. 80% or more of sc2 players wont even have heard of iccup, let alone be able to win a game on it. If you can hold a steady D rank, you will probably be at least silver. A/B and maybe even C people will all be in platinum/pro
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On August 29 2009 10:23 VorcePA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 10:15 DeCoup wrote:
-Each league is subdivided into brackets. Each bracket (for example) contains around 100 players. But the skill level of the brackets overlap a little (and you will see why below).
So you are Silver League - Q bracket, rank 15th. All of a sudden you go from a system where you are 7693th to 15th. All because of the subdivisions.
I really like where they are going with this. No matter what skill level you are at you can see yourself compared to 100 people close to you. It gives you goals that are achievable. Maybe you can't come 1st/20,000 but you can definetly come 1st/100 people at or around your skill level. Still, there's always going to be the nagging feeling that nobody cares about any rank except Pro League, Division A/B. :p
It's not about bragging its about your own sense of progression and accomplishment.
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On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote:
Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better.
I can't beat D- either you should hook us up lol 
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i hope everyone realizes that we will be playing with EVERYONE now i know for a fact that there are some pretty dedicated players in other countries so koreans will be pretty hard to get through in the higher ranks because if you didnt already know you can get whooped up on by some bisu fangirl on uswest anyday.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 29 2009 15:19 Virtuoso wrote:
i hope everyone realizes that we will be playing with EVERYONE now i know for a fact that there are some pretty dedicated players in other countries so koreans will be pretty hard to get through in the higher ranks because if you didnt already know you can get whooped up on by some bisu fangirl on uswest anyday.
1) IIRC Blizzard mentioned plans of splitting play into regions the way WoW is done, so it's likely we won't be playing "everyone".
2) Even if we are playing across a global player pool, how is this any different from ICCup now?
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On August 29 2009 15:40 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 15:19 Virtuoso wrote:
i hope everyone realizes that we will be playing with EVERYONE now i know for a fact that there are some pretty dedicated players in other countries so koreans will be pretty hard to get through in the higher ranks because if you didnt already know you can get whooped up on by some bisu fangirl on uswest anyday. 1) IIRC Blizzard mentioned plans of splitting play into regions the way WoW is done, so it's likely we won't be playing "everyone". 2) Even if we are playing across a global player pool, how is this any different from ICCup now?
remember that the original Battle.net was split up via region as well...
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MrMoose
Canada176 Posts
I wonder if all leagues will have the same # of players in them, or if higher leagues will be more 'exclusive.' Anyone know?
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I see a lot of people that seem to still be confused how this is different from iccup. Many of them probably didn't read the whole OP, but basically it's boils down to the fact that battle.net will use whatever magical factors to rate how good you are in the first 10 or so games that you play, and then you will be assigned a "league" that approximates your skill level. So you won't be playing a general global player pool, you'll only be playing people somewhat near your ability level. The noob league will also have maps designed to prevent rushing to really ease new players into the multiplayer scene.
Then you will be put into a division of 100 players that are in your league, and you essentially compete against your division for rank (I don't think you will be exclusively playing against your division members, just ranked among them). I guess if you pwn your division enough then they will bump you up a league or something, I'm not sure.
Personally I partly like this idea, because then you won't go on and play a bunch of D+ games against Koreans with new accounts and lose every game. You're guaranteed to play people at about your level.
But I don't like this idea for the same reason that has already been brought up with the single account business... it eliminates your ability to fuck around, play more casually, offrace, play with friends, etc without fucking up your rank. Hopefully they have some kind of "rank play mode" and "non rank play" general mode with a more universal player pool.
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On August 29 2009 17:21 f10esqftw wrote:
But I don't like this idea for the same reason that has already been brought up with the single account business... it eliminates your ability to fuck around, play more casually, offrace, play with friends, etc without fucking up your rank. Hopefully they have some kind of "rank play mode" and "non rank play" general mode with a more universal player pool.
"Hide Rank" and "Name Change" features should be added IMO.
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yes, would be cool if u have a AMM button which gives you a random opponent, no matter what skill lvl he is and none of you will lose points or ranks or whatever
like this you will still have the comfort of an AMM, but you can try builds, offrace or just let your girfriend play lol xD
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On August 29 2009 19:12 fickazzz wrote:
yes, would be cool if u have a AMM button which gives you a random opponent, no matter what skill lvl he is and none of you will lose points or ranks or whatever
like this you will still have the comfort of an AMM, but you can try builds, offrace or just let your girfriend play lol xD
Could you imagine trying to write an algorithim for that....I suppose you could just steal Bungie's lol.
While yes, that would save time, it wouldn't be any harder to create a custom game with the settings you'd like or you can do it randomly yourself by closing your eyes and running the slider up and down the map pool for a minute or however long before stopping and then whoever enters first you fire up the game; tada, serves pretty much purpose ...
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Looks cool. I will probably never get past bronze though ^_^
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Ofc you will, do you know how many new, like really new noobish people will come? They will be in bronze, not you 
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The ladder is ranked play. The ladder has a set map pool. You can create a game and choose any map. Theirfor you can play unranked games.
I don't know why any of you for one second would think that the only way you can play SC2 is in a ranked game. Sometimes I think your just looking for things to complain about.
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I'm not sure why there's mysticism and what if's surrounding this. You can easily conclude from the information given that its wc3's system with a league type dealy plopped on top. AMM, map pool selecting, game type, custom vs ladder, etc. all appear to be present meaning the only new thing is the league addition which instead of clumping all players together with a level type system in wc3, they're layering people in by presumably keeping people in a specific league for a set amount of time be it weekly, monthly, quarterly, enough wins, a high enough rating to "league up".
But seriously I know one too many people haven't played wc3 but its important in understanding the changes because it isn't just wc3, its the next rts after starcraft just as sc2 isn't just sc2, its the next rts after wc3, so on top of gameplay they progress all the other tidbits in their next installation of rts game. What I mean is its not a card game where sc is one variation and wc3 is another variation, its a whole progression of rts games in general from blizzard. Maybe I went overanalytical explaining it, sorry if I did.
In conclusion(the point I was trying to make) though I would contend its not like iccup, but rather its exactly like wc3 its just that its a layered approach to putting people in leagues rather than a level. The wc3 AMM system is designed so that you should get 50% wins, this is the same thing, but just adds more precision in that it'd be the hope that the variance of player skill is very low within your respective league.
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On August 29 2009 20:04 Alizee- wrote:
I'm not sure why there's mysticism and what if's surrounding this. You can easily conclude from the information given that its wc3's system with a league type dealy plopped on top. AMM, map pool selecting, game type, custom vs ladder, etc. all appear to be present meaning the only new thing is the league addition which instead of clumping all players together with a level type system in wc3, they're layering people in by presumably keeping people in a specific league for a set amount of time be it weekly, monthly, quarterly, enough wins, a high enough rating to "league up".
But seriously I know one too many people haven't played wc3 but its important in understanding the changes because it isn't just wc3, its the next rts after starcraft just as sc2 isn't just sc2, its the next rts after wc3, so on top of gameplay they progress all the other tidbits in their next installation of rts game. What I mean is its not a card game where sc is one variation and wc3 is another variation, its a whole progression of rts games in general from blizzard. Maybe I went overanalytical explaining it, sorry if I did.
In conclusion(the point I was trying to make) though I would contend its not like iccup, but rather its exactly like wc3 its just that its a layered approach to putting people in leagues rather than a level. The wc3 AMM system is designed so that you should get 50% wins, this is the same thing, but just adds more precision in that it'd be the hope that the variance of player skill is very low within your respective league.
We don't know the system they are using. We don't know if its a trueskill variant, ELO, or if its some amalgamation of the two with ELL thrown in. We do know they hired a PhD statistician specifically to design the Ladder for SC2, so no, it's not going to be anything like WC3.
If you're talking features, then yes, its like pretty much every other major RTS. AMM, Ladder system, Ranked and unranked, Map pools, etc.
AoM, AoE III, WC3, Halo Wars, CoH etc.
I guess we'll have to take the wait and see approach. It's just my intuition coupled with the fact about the Statistician that the actual algorithim used to determine skill isn't going to be a copy of WC3's.
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i guess stork and jangbi will get stuck in the silver league HAHA!
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EPT
