(Sorry if this is a repost, I couldn't find another similar thread when searching for 'league'/'leagues'
I don't know how many people have seen this, and it may be old news, but there are going to be SEVEN different Starcraft 2 leagues on battle.net 2.0
I am personally excited beyond belief for this. Its awesome that they broke it down into 7 leagues so you can easily see where you fit and how skilled you are compared to the rest of the world. I believe it places you in the league based on your performance, I may be mistaken though.
One cool thing about it is when you are searching for a game it only matches you with people from your own league. This is to keep the games challenging for you so you win around 50% of your games. If you get better and start to win more it will bump you up to the next league.
Starcraft will finally have progression! I cant wait to slowly start ladder climbing to try and reach the top.
This sort of reminds me of iccup, playing at a specific level until you are good enough to move on; although this, coupled with the one account per game, could get rid of smurfs. Might be a nice change.
Interesting, hope we don't start at practice league that'd be retarded...and what if your like foreigner...would you only be able to hit platinum until korean or?
Cool post, I hadn't seen this before, basically iccup ranks for them.
My big question still is... will a players "rating" ,which therefore defines this league, have separation based on Race... with the smurfing out basically it would be dumb for a zerg only to be stuck in the gold league when offracing.
I wouldn't judge too much based on that screenshot. I think that's just a framework and a lot could definitely change in the months ahead. Also the example they gave at the panel of how you get into them was "You'll probably play something like 10 games without a league and then be assigned a league based on your performance"
On August 29 2009 09:59 StalkerSC wrote: Interesting, hope we don't start at practice league that'd be retarded...and what if your like foreigner...would you only be able to hit platinum until korean or?
Practice league is special. That's the one with special no-rush maps and a slower game speed. Players probably have to opt into that one, and then maybe it kicks you out after a while if you're winning too much
Yeah, according to what they said at Blizzcon, it'll throw you into one of the leagues based on your initial performance, and then you can go up and down leagues depending on how you do within your own league. Within each league, players are going to be put into 'divisions' of around 100 people, and they can grow into other leagues by placing high within their division.
I'm not entirely sure on the exact details of it, because they didn't get into it too deeply, but go check out the Battle.net 2.0 panel from Blizzcon if you're interested. (Should be on YouTube.)
I really like how the leagues are tackled in SC2. They are really trying to make leagues not feel like a feature only for pro players. I've tried to explain below how they explained at Blizzcon the way their new leagues work in SC2. I don't have time to review the footage while I write this so the exact numbers and terminology is probably a little different. But it's just to give you an idea of the concept they are using to bring the league system to everybody, and make everybody have a sense of achievement while they play.
-Your first 10 games help to work out which league to place you in.
Lets say you are in the Silver league and there are 20,000 players in that league. Nobody wants to see that they are ranked 7,693th. It just does not really encourage you in any way.
-Each league is subdivided into brackets. Each bracket (for example) contains around 100 players. But the skill level of the brackets overlap a little (and you will see why below). So you are Silver League - Q bracket, rank 15th. All of a sudden you go from a system where you are 7693th to 15th. All because of the subdivisions.
-As you win games in this system you advance till your 1st(or around that) in the bracket then you get a congratulations and progress to the next bracket (in this case P bracket). When you get into the next bracket you might start at 60th (not 100th) or so. This gives you room to loose a few games without dropping straight back into the bracket below you (and this is why the overlap).
I really like where they are going with this. No matter what skill level you are at you can see yourself compared to 100 people close to you. It gives you goals that are achievable. Maybe you can't come 1st/20,000 but you can definetly come 1st/100 people at or around your skill level.
On August 29 2009 10:15 DeCoup wrote: -Each league is subdivided into brackets. Each bracket (for example) contains around 100 players. But the skill level of the brackets overlap a little (and you will see why below). So you are Silver League - Q bracket, rank 15th. All of a sudden you go from a system where you are 7693th to 15th. All because of the subdivisions.
I really like where they are going with this. No matter what skill level you are at you can see yourself compared to 100 people close to you. It gives you goals that are achievable. Maybe you can't come 1st/20,000 but you can definetly come 1st/100 people at or around your skill level.
Still, there's always going to be the nagging feeling that nobody cares about any rank except Pro League, Division A/B. :p
Time will tell as to how good this feature actually is, but I really like the concept of it. Nice way to keep leagues friendly for noobs yet appealing for pros. Can't wait to test it out.
i think its a cool idea.. but u can never be the BEST in your leagues.. soon as your the best.. u move up then your the worst... then the people that will do the best in the leagues are the avg people.. unless they have it setup that u play in a league for a full season no matter how good u are doing..
I'm curious as to what metrics will be used to determine what league you will end up in. Are the first 10 games played against random league players or are they considered "leagueless" and will limit you to only playing other people who aren't in a league yet? I can imagine someone getting lucky matchups against bad players and winning 10 games in a row, then being placed too high in the league system. Game stats like APM aren't really a good measure of skill either, so I'm sure the launch will be similar to a new iccup season then get fleshed over time.
Gonna have to look into this more, but it seems like ICCup ranks, except wiith greater granularity, due to the bracket system. Seems like a good thing.
Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better.
killanator thats the whole point of D- though, its so that you can play people your level. the problem is that we have too many people resetting/transferring so that their stats are 1000 again. im trying to get iCCup to reduce the number of clearstats/transfers you can do
On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote: Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better.
i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league
On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote: Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better.
i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league
Bronze is supposed to be a weak league... Having a weak league is a good thing.
I think you're grossly underestimating the millions and millions of newbs that are going to play this game at release.
Probably all but one of the SC players I know IRL would rarely win a d- game.
On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote: Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better.
i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league
Bronze is supposed to be a weak league... Having a weak league is a good thing.
I think you're grossly underestimating the millions and millions of newbs that are going to play this game at release.
Probably all but one of the SC players I know IRL would rarely win a d- game.
yeah, don't forget those numbers that even if you're a D+ you're better than something like 95% of people who have ever played starcraft, iccup C would probably be equivalent to the platinum league in this system as-is
On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote: Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better.
i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league
Bronze is supposed to be a weak league... Having a weak league is a good thing.
I think you're grossly underestimating the millions and millions of newbs that are going to play this game at release.
Probably all but one of the SC players I know IRL would rarely win a d- game.
yeah, don't forget those numbers that even if you're a D+ you're better than something like 95% of people who have ever played starcraft, iccup C would probably be equivalent to the platinum league in this system as-is
we can't really guess at what iccup ranks will translate into since it all depends on how many players there are, if pro players play on bnet, etc...
On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote: Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better.
i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league
Bronze is supposed to be a weak league... Having a weak league is a good thing.
I think you're grossly underestimating the millions and millions of newbs that are going to play this game at release.
Probably all but one of the SC players I know IRL would rarely win a d- game.
yeah, don't forget those numbers that even if you're a D+ you're better than something like 95% of people who have ever played starcraft, iccup C would probably be equivalent to the platinum league in this system as-is
we can't really guess at what iccup ranks will translate into since it all depends on how many players there are, if pro players play on bnet, etc...
I think he's just saying that today's D+ gamers are going to be fucking amazing compared to a lot of the crowd at SC2's release.
o, this makes sense now when they said you should winning about half your games. if you win more, you should obv move up a league. if you win less, youll probably stay or go down. if youre jumping back and forth, then youve probably found where you should be
I'm assuming that photo came from BlizzCon, so curious if Blizzard explained what they had planned for it.
I'm hoping the league system works something like this:
- everyone gets slotted first at Practice League - there's a rating system where players win or lose points playing each other - opponents will be randomly matched in the same league. rating is not used in matchmaking other than determining league slotting. - each league has a rating point tier and players get automattically slotted to that league once eclipsing the point tier. players will also be dropped down a league if their point total drops below a tier. - disconnects = losses. if you have a bad connection, too bad. - limit of 3 to 5 games playing the same opponent in a day.
On August 29 2009 12:35 udgnim wrote: I'm assuming that photo came from BlizzCon, so curious if Blizzard explained what they had planned for it.
I'm hoping the league system works something like this:
- everyone gets slotted first at Practice League - there's a rating system where players win or lose points playing each other - each league has a rating point tier and players get automattically slotted to that league once eclipsing the the point tier. players will also be dropped down a league if their point total drops below a tier. - disconnects = losses. if you have a bad connection, too bad. - limit of 3 to 5 games playing the same player in a day.
Practice league has a special rule set and maps so that's probably going to be separate or have it's own special qualifications.
In the example from Blizzcon, you didn't start in any league. The AMM placed you in a league after a set number of games based on your performance.
A game limit with other players isn't a big deal because the matching is automatic. It's extremely unlikely that you'll keep getting the same person.
On August 29 2009 10:08 HomieZ wrote: useless, this essentially takes iccup ranks and translate them into medals. It is better to keep iccup ranks than that medal bs. Sounds so noob.
Not really. The idea is that you can earn yourself into a league and at least hold onto it for a time. Making it up to D+ or C- for the first time on ICCup only to get immediately knocked back down by two games is just stupid. At times, getting knocked off of a new rank can actually make you totally lose confidence, and you'll drop even further. It's much more gratifying if you know you have a relative buffer that keeps you in one "league"- that you can keep the status you've earned for yourself.
lol I love when people treat iccup as the holy grail. For what it is, its good, its volunteer work and they put it together nicely, but the reality is that its amateur, its not a perfected system, it doesn't have people being paid to make it the best. Its the only option nowadays so its more of a take it or leave it. Perhaps some of you are forgetting that Blizzard has an AMM(automated matchmaking system) so that you are in the proper league.
Its as similar to ICCUP as it is to any ladder in existence by comparison. This you'll be more correctly matched against people that are your skill and thus put in a league that corresponds to that skill level. ICCUP doesn't come close to doing that, you simply get points based on winning or lose points based on losing. That's it, a person who happens to be C+ at some arbitrary record of say 30-5 vs 40-80 is probably not an equal matchup, which is why again ICCUP is far from the end all be all. It works, its something, but it could be better. It only seems to really shine in the A/B ranks where people would kinda be crazy to clearstats at that point.
I'm very confident blizzard knows what they're doing on this one.
On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote: Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better.
i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league
Bronze is supposed to be a weak league... Having a weak league is a good thing.
I think you're grossly underestimating the millions and millions of newbs that are going to play this game at release.
Probably all but one of the SC players I know IRL would rarely win a d- game.
yeah, don't forget those numbers that even if you're a D+ you're better than something like 95% of people who have ever played starcraft, iccup C would probably be equivalent to the platinum league in this system as-is
we can't really guess at what iccup ranks will translate into since it all depends on how many players there are, if pro players play on bnet, etc...
I think he's just saying that today's D+ gamers are going to be fucking amazing compared to a lot of the crowd at SC2's release.
Yeah this is definitely true. Even D+ players have a huge understanding of what the game is about compared to your average player, or even your average RTS player. I mean, pretty much anyone at D rank at least understands that you need a ton of workers, a single fact which will massively set them apart from people like, say, WC3 or C&C players.
On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote: Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better.
i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league
That shouldn't be an issue. If we equate ICCup ranks, and put Bronze League about D, then Platinum League is still A, and leaves room for Pro League to be equivalent to Olympic rank.
The increased number of ranks and bracket subdivisions allows for greater granularity, especially at lower levels, which is a good thing. It allows for a more fine-tuned knowledge of where you are compared to other people, and lets you set short term goals (because ICCup rank goals often end up being month or longer affairs a lot of the time).
Keep in mind that there will be a lot of people entering the league way below ICCup levels, since the average skill level in most other RTSs is much lower (I think it was D.Apollo that was the world champion at C&C, and hit around only C-ranks on ICCup).
On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote: Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better.
i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league
Bronze is supposed to be a weak league... Having a weak league is a good thing.
I think you're grossly underestimating the millions and millions of newbs that are going to play this game at release.
Probably all but one of the SC players I know IRL would rarely win a d- game.
yeah, don't forget those numbers that even if you're a D+ you're better than something like 95% of people who have ever played starcraft, iccup C would probably be equivalent to the platinum league in this system as-is
we can't really guess at what iccup ranks will translate into since it all depends on how many players there are, if pro players play on bnet, etc...
I think he's just saying that today's D+ gamers are going to be fucking amazing compared to a lot of the crowd at SC2's release.
Yeah this is definitely true. Even D+ players have a huge understanding of what the game is about compared to your average player, or even your average RTS player. I mean, pretty much anyone at D rank at least understands that you need a ton of workers, a single fact which will massively set them apart from people like, say, WC3 or C&C players.
For what it's worth blizzard is aware of that specific information gap, all of the "how to play" signs for sc2 at blizzcon encouraged players to make a large number of workers.
Everyone keep in mind that B- and above makes up maybe .1 or less percent of sc2 players. 80% or more of sc2 players wont even have heard of iccup, let alone be able to win a game on it. If you can hold a steady D rank, you will probably be at least silver. A/B and maybe even C people will all be in platinum/pro
On August 29 2009 10:15 DeCoup wrote: -Each league is subdivided into brackets. Each bracket (for example) contains around 100 players. But the skill level of the brackets overlap a little (and you will see why below). So you are Silver League - Q bracket, rank 15th. All of a sudden you go from a system where you are 7693th to 15th. All because of the subdivisions.
I really like where they are going with this. No matter what skill level you are at you can see yourself compared to 100 people close to you. It gives you goals that are achievable. Maybe you can't come 1st/20,000 but you can definetly come 1st/100 people at or around your skill level.
Still, there's always going to be the nagging feeling that nobody cares about any rank except Pro League, Division A/B. :p
It's not about bragging its about your own sense of progression and accomplishment.
On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote: Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better.
i hope everyone realizes that we will be playing with EVERYONE now i know for a fact that there are some pretty dedicated players in other countries so koreans will be pretty hard to get through in the higher ranks because if you didnt already know you can get whooped up on by some bisu fangirl on uswest anyday.
On August 29 2009 15:19 Virtuoso wrote: i hope everyone realizes that we will be playing with EVERYONE now i know for a fact that there are some pretty dedicated players in other countries so koreans will be pretty hard to get through in the higher ranks because if you didnt already know you can get whooped up on by some bisu fangirl on uswest anyday.
1) IIRC Blizzard mentioned plans of splitting play into regions the way WoW is done, so it's likely we won't be playing "everyone".
2) Even if we are playing across a global player pool, how is this any different from ICCup now?
On August 29 2009 15:19 Virtuoso wrote: i hope everyone realizes that we will be playing with EVERYONE now i know for a fact that there are some pretty dedicated players in other countries so koreans will be pretty hard to get through in the higher ranks because if you didnt already know you can get whooped up on by some bisu fangirl on uswest anyday.
1) IIRC Blizzard mentioned plans of splitting play into regions the way WoW is done, so it's likely we won't be playing "everyone".
2) Even if we are playing across a global player pool, how is this any different from ICCup now?
remember that the original Battle.net was split up via region as well...
I see a lot of people that seem to still be confused how this is different from iccup. Many of them probably didn't read the whole OP, but basically it's boils down to the fact that battle.net will use whatever magical factors to rate how good you are in the first 10 or so games that you play, and then you will be assigned a "league" that approximates your skill level. So you won't be playing a general global player pool, you'll only be playing people somewhat near your ability level. The noob league will also have maps designed to prevent rushing to really ease new players into the multiplayer scene.
Then you will be put into a division of 100 players that are in your league, and you essentially compete against your division for rank (I don't think you will be exclusively playing against your division members, just ranked among them). I guess if you pwn your division enough then they will bump you up a league or something, I'm not sure.
Personally I partly like this idea, because then you won't go on and play a bunch of D+ games against Koreans with new accounts and lose every game. You're guaranteed to play people at about your level. But I don't like this idea for the same reason that has already been brought up with the single account business... it eliminates your ability to fuck around, play more casually, offrace, play with friends, etc without fucking up your rank. Hopefully they have some kind of "rank play mode" and "non rank play" general mode with a more universal player pool.
On August 29 2009 17:21 f10esqftw wrote: But I don't like this idea for the same reason that has already been brought up with the single account business... it eliminates your ability to fuck around, play more casually, offrace, play with friends, etc without fucking up your rank. Hopefully they have some kind of "rank play mode" and "non rank play" general mode with a more universal player pool.
"Hide Rank" and "Name Change" features should be added IMO.
yes, would be cool if u have a AMM button which gives you a random opponent, no matter what skill lvl he is and none of you will lose points or ranks or whatever like this you will still have the comfort of an AMM, but you can try builds, offrace or just let your girfriend play lol xD
On August 29 2009 19:12 fickazzz wrote: yes, would be cool if u have a AMM button which gives you a random opponent, no matter what skill lvl he is and none of you will lose points or ranks or whatever like this you will still have the comfort of an AMM, but you can try builds, offrace or just let your girfriend play lol xD
Could you imagine trying to write an algorithim for that....I suppose you could just steal Bungie's lol.
While yes, that would save time, it wouldn't be any harder to create a custom game with the settings you'd like or you can do it randomly yourself by closing your eyes and running the slider up and down the map pool for a minute or however long before stopping and then whoever enters first you fire up the game; tada, serves pretty much purpose ...
The ladder is ranked play. The ladder has a set map pool. You can create a game and choose any map. Theirfor you can play unranked games.
I don't know why any of you for one second would think that the only way you can play SC2 is in a ranked game. Sometimes I think your just looking for things to complain about.
I'm not sure why there's mysticism and what if's surrounding this. You can easily conclude from the information given that its wc3's system with a league type dealy plopped on top. AMM, map pool selecting, game type, custom vs ladder, etc. all appear to be present meaning the only new thing is the league addition which instead of clumping all players together with a level type system in wc3, they're layering people in by presumably keeping people in a specific league for a set amount of time be it weekly, monthly, quarterly, enough wins, a high enough rating to "league up".
But seriously I know one too many people haven't played wc3 but its important in understanding the changes because it isn't just wc3, its the next rts after starcraft just as sc2 isn't just sc2, its the next rts after wc3, so on top of gameplay they progress all the other tidbits in their next installation of rts game. What I mean is its not a card game where sc is one variation and wc3 is another variation, its a whole progression of rts games in general from blizzard. Maybe I went overanalytical explaining it, sorry if I did.
In conclusion(the point I was trying to make) though I would contend its not like iccup, but rather its exactly like wc3 its just that its a layered approach to putting people in leagues rather than a level. The wc3 AMM system is designed so that you should get 50% wins, this is the same thing, but just adds more precision in that it'd be the hope that the variance of player skill is very low within your respective league.
On August 29 2009 20:04 Alizee- wrote: I'm not sure why there's mysticism and what if's surrounding this. You can easily conclude from the information given that its wc3's system with a league type dealy plopped on top. AMM, map pool selecting, game type, custom vs ladder, etc. all appear to be present meaning the only new thing is the league addition which instead of clumping all players together with a level type system in wc3, they're layering people in by presumably keeping people in a specific league for a set amount of time be it weekly, monthly, quarterly, enough wins, a high enough rating to "league up".
But seriously I know one too many people haven't played wc3 but its important in understanding the changes because it isn't just wc3, its the next rts after starcraft just as sc2 isn't just sc2, its the next rts after wc3, so on top of gameplay they progress all the other tidbits in their next installation of rts game. What I mean is its not a card game where sc is one variation and wc3 is another variation, its a whole progression of rts games in general from blizzard. Maybe I went overanalytical explaining it, sorry if I did.
In conclusion(the point I was trying to make) though I would contend its not like iccup, but rather its exactly like wc3 its just that its a layered approach to putting people in leagues rather than a level. The wc3 AMM system is designed so that you should get 50% wins, this is the same thing, but just adds more precision in that it'd be the hope that the variance of player skill is very low within your respective league.
We don't know the system they are using. We don't know if its a trueskill variant, ELO, or if its some amalgamation of the two with ELL thrown in. We do know they hired a PhD statistician specifically to design the Ladder for SC2, so no, it's not going to be anything like WC3.
If you're talking features, then yes, its like pretty much every other major RTS. AMM, Ladder system, Ranked and unranked, Map pools, etc.
AoM, AoE III, WC3, Halo Wars, CoH etc.
I guess we'll have to take the wait and see approach. It's just my intuition coupled with the fact about the Statistician that the actual algorithim used to determine skill isn't going to be a copy of WC3's.
On August 29 2009 11:04 LCC wrote: I'm curious as to what metrics will be used to determine what league you will end up in. Are the first 10 games played against random league players or are they considered "leagueless" and will limit you to only playing other people who aren't in a league yet? I can imagine someone getting lucky matchups against bad players and winning 10 games in a row, then being placed too high in the league system. Game stats like APM aren't really a good measure of skill either, so I'm sure the launch will be similar to a new iccup season then get fleshed over time.
They could easily make the intro games be against league players. Something like this: First four games you go up against bronze, if you win all you go up to silver. Then next four games you go against silver, if you win all you go up to gold. If you lose 3 in a row you go down again, and if you don't move you will stay till you have 80% wins/losses in that league and then you will get moved.
After ~10 games you will be placed in the appropriate league on one of the lower divisions.
Also this system would be totally worthless if it did not give you different medals for different races since if you were platinum zerg and silver terran and played a lot of terran then you would basically have to munch through two leagues with zerg to get back. So instead I would guess that if you off race it would do like normal and give you the 10 initial games and then place you in the appropriate league.
So then when you watch a players profile you can see how rounded he is too, like "bronze zerg, silver terran, pro protoss".
has there been any confirmation in terms of realm splitting? I mean words from blizzard themselves, if there will be one server for the world or many servers?
THis actually sound amazing. I for one will not be able to drop playing for a second - if im silver Q / silver G will REALLY matter to me, just as C/C+ does.
On August 29 2009 22:01 Skyze wrote: has there been any confirmation in terms of realm splitting? I mean words from blizzard themselves, if there will be one server for the world or many servers?
1 server for the whole world is bad for lag, it is better to have 4 different servers with much less lag and instead have world championships now and then like they do for wc3.
hmm, its gonna be separated ladders per region, then each region would have different skills at same league, i.e. latin american region platinium ranked player would have about the same skill as a korean region bronze league player?
On August 29 2009 22:17 fabiano wrote: hmm, its gonna be separated ladders per region, then each region would have different skills at same league, i.e. latin american region platinium ranked player would have about the same skill as a korean region bronze league player?
am i talking shit?
That is already happening in wc3, Europe and Asia have noticeable harder ladders than the US servers. Do not worry, people will know of this.
yeh in war3, I would mass game on europe, get around top 100, then when you go on east, its easy to get top 10 after struggling vs the hardcore europeans. Id do asia but the lag was bad.
hmm. I was just thinking maybe since technology is better now, they could find a way to help lag and make one big server. that'd be cool =/
On August 29 2009 17:21 f10esqftw wrote: But I don't like this idea for the same reason that has already been brought up with the single account business... it eliminates your ability to fuck around, play more casually, offrace, play with friends, etc without fucking up your rank. Hopefully they have some kind of "rank play mode" and "non rank play" general mode with a more universal player pool.
There'll always be the ability to make custom games if you feel like not being ranked. You don't always have to use the ranked auto-match system.
On August 29 2009 16:06 blabber wrote: remember that the original Battle.net was split up via region as well...
Battle.net gateways are not equivalent to WoW regions. Being able to log into European WoW servers from the US is somewhat more complicated that clicking a button in the game.
On August 29 2009 22:01 Skyze wrote: has there been any confirmation in terms of realm splitting? I mean words from blizzard themselves, if there will be one server for the world or many servers?
At the battle.net panel, Rob Pardo stated that there will be regions, but nothing final has been decided yet. Basically only confirmed that it won't be 'one server for the whole world'.
On August 29 2009 16:21 MrMoose wrote: I wonder if all leagues will have the same # of players in them, or if higher leagues will be more 'exclusive.' Anyone know?
Pro league might be invite only. That allow Blizzard to keep the professional games ranked inside the Battle.net system, they stated many times that they want to be more involved in the professional gaming scene for sc2.
On August 29 2009 16:21 MrMoose wrote: I wonder if all leagues will have the same # of players in them, or if higher leagues will be more 'exclusive.' Anyone know?
Pro league might be invite only. That allow Blizzard to keep the professional games ranked inside the Battle.net system, they stated many times that they want to be more involved in the professional gaming scene for sc2.
Well, they have something like that for wc3, a ladder for only the best players.
On August 29 2009 16:06 blabber wrote: remember that the original Battle.net was split up via region as well...
Battle.net gateways are not equivalent to WoW regions. Being able to log into European WoW servers from the US is somewhat more complicated that clicking a button in the game.
sorry are u saying u cant log into euro servers from us?.. its actually very simple to do this..
On August 29 2009 16:06 blabber wrote: remember that the original Battle.net was split up via region as well...
Battle.net gateways are not equivalent to WoW regions. Being able to log into European WoW servers from the US is somewhat more complicated that clicking a button in the game.
sorry are u saying u cant log into euro servers from us?.. its actually very simple to do this..
I'm pretty sure he's saying exactly what he typed. You can't switch WoW regions at the click of a button.
On August 29 2009 11:04 LCC wrote: I'm curious as to what metrics will be used to determine what league you will end up in. Are the first 10 games played against random league players or are they considered "leagueless" and will limit you to only playing other people who aren't in a league yet? I can imagine someone getting lucky matchups against bad players and winning 10 games in a row, then being placed too high in the league system. Game stats like APM aren't really a good measure of skill either, so I'm sure the launch will be similar to a new iccup season then get fleshed over time.
They could easily make the intro games be against league players. Something like this: First four games you go up against bronze, if you win all you go up to silver. Then next four games you go against silver, if you win all you go up to gold. If you lose 3 in a row you go down again, and if you don't move you will stay till you have 80% wins/losses in that league and then you will get moved.
After ~10 games you will be placed in the appropriate league on one of the lower divisions.
Also this system would be totally worthless if it did not give you different medals for different races since if you were platinum zerg and silver terran and played a lot of terran then you would basically have to munch through two leagues with zerg to get back. So instead I would guess that if you off race it would do like normal and give you the 10 initial games and then place you in the appropriate league.
So then when you watch a players profile you can see how rounded he is too, like "bronze zerg, silver terran, pro protoss".
I think, if i remember properly rfom the battlenet blizzcon panel, his profile said something like "Bronze Zerg" or something
I really think this ICCup style ranking system with full Blizzard monetary and development support (big tourneys, the best players) could really be the best thing to happen to RTS since Starcraft itself.
I wonder if korean pros will even be playing the blizzard ladder? It definitely wont have any kespa support, but I'm sure Blizzard could put quite a bit of money up for it if they wanted, and it could turn out to be pretty prestigious. I just don't think a battlenet league will be able to have the top korean players, even if there was no lag at all.
On August 30 2009 05:37 killanator wrote: I wonder if korean pros will even be playing the blizzard ladder? It definitely wont have any kespa support, but I'm sure Blizzard could put quite a bit of money up for it if they wanted, and it could turn out to be pretty prestigious. I just don't think a battlenet league will be able to have the top korean players, even if there was no lag at all.
Well, what alternatives would they have for a while at release without LAN or an emulated private server?
some noob had a question at blizzcon about this that I didn't understand until I saw this post (because I missed this whole ladder league breakdown thing). He asked what rank it will put you in if you are copper and you ally is gold when u play 2v2AT. BRowder said that 2v2s act like a single person or unit and therefor start at rank 1 like any other player. You will therefor jump ranks pretty fast if you guys have a high win ratio.
PS- Pro league is a P and platinum is a P, also practice league is a P. the ranks could get confusing.
All I'm hoping for is that Blizzard is willing enough to allow for maps from outside sources to be used in their ladder system if they want to replace third party ladders. Look at how much Blizzard maps are used in sc today... I really like this league breakdown though and think as long as the maps don't suck they'll have a pretty good system.
On August 30 2009 07:16 CharlieMurphy wrote: some noob had a question at blizzcon about this that I didn't understand until I saw this post (because I missed this whole ladder league breakdown thing). He asked what rank it will put you in if you are copper and you ally is gold when u play 2v2AT. BRowder said that 2v2s act like a single person or unit and therefor start at rank 1 like any other player. You will therefor jump ranks pretty fast if you guys have a high win ratio.
PS- Pro league is a P and platinum is a P, also practice league is a P. the ranks could get confusing.
On August 30 2009 07:22 Hamster1800 wrote: All I'm hoping for is that Blizzard is willing enough to allow for maps from outside sources to be used in their ladder system if they want to replace third party ladders. Look at how much Blizzard maps are used in sc today... I really like this league breakdown though and think as long as the maps don't suck they'll have a pretty good system.
I assume blizzard would look at the korean model and figure it out, but they never did with warcraft 3(although there were never professional map makers for that game)
On August 30 2009 07:22 Hamster1800 wrote: All I'm hoping for is that Blizzard is willing enough to allow for maps from outside sources to be used in their ladder system if they want to replace third party ladders. Look at how much Blizzard maps are used in sc today... I really like this league breakdown though and think as long as the maps don't suck they'll have a pretty good system.
I assume blizzard would look at the korean model and figure it out, but they never did with warcraft 3(although there were never professional map makers for that game)
Honestly, map geography features aren't nearly as important in WC3 than they are in SC. In WC3 it's more about gameplay features, such as creeps and shops.
On August 30 2009 07:22 Hamster1800 wrote: All I'm hoping for is that Blizzard is willing enough to allow for maps from outside sources to be used in their ladder system if they want to replace third party ladders. Look at how much Blizzard maps are used in sc today... I really like this league breakdown though and think as long as the maps don't suck they'll have a pretty good system.
They have said several times that they are open to foreign (in this case foreign = korea) maps and whichever ones come their way that are completely Balanced.
Blizzard has really been following the Korean scene noticeably for the last two years or so.
Hmm i really like how they will put players in each league. It makes it easier to track your progress as you improve. Definitely will keep people from getting too depressed when they get beat.
i don't think you can just play in pro leage even if you are good enough. i think there will be some special conditions for that. it will work like any other sport. IMO like you can't just play in NFL or premier league or whatever. so you have to be a member of a pro team that is accepted by Blizzard.
as for the anonymous practice via AMM. there is already a feature like this in WoW so im sure SC2 will have the same.
At the end of each 'season' they should run playoffs from the top 16 of each league, not just the pro league. This is very much similar to how they run playoffs for each realm in wc3 for the solo ladder, only this allows those players in say the bronze league, to experience a playoff, and possibly earn an icon or reward for winning the finals for their particular bracket. I feel as though those players would really appreciate the experience and this would contribute to improving the longevity of the game for those players who aren't so gifted.
thanks for the bump Dav_ i hadnt seen this thread when it was up in august, and this just got me really excited again for sc2 >_>
anyway, I'm bouncing between D/D+ right now on iccup and its frustrating to say the least, when people ask what rank i am i feel like a liar when telling them im D+ when im only there half the time
and i realized that letters wouldnt work for the ranking system, like Silver-L because it would only allow 2600 (for arguments sake) per League. and assuming there's only 5 Leagues we can expect to be in (Platinum, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Copper) that only allows 13,000 people to be ranked. but maybe that'll be a good thing seeing as you cant be in a ranked until you're in the top 13,000, or maybe Practice League will be the dump-all, like D- is where there arent ranks that consist of letters and shit, except that you get accepted into a league when your overall performances surpass the lowest ranked Copper-Z player.
On December 13 2009 14:10 GDT.Auz wrote: Just a quick thought from me.
At the end of each 'season' they should run playoffs from the top 16 of each league, not just the pro league. This is very much similar to how they run playoffs for each realm in wc3 for the solo ladder, only this allows those players in say the bronze league, to experience a playoff, and possibly earn an icon or reward for winning the finals for their particular bracket. I feel as though those players would really appreciate the experience and this would contribute to improving the longevity of the game for those players who aren't so gifted.
People will be moving so fast up and down between the different leagues that it would really only be good to have tournaments with voluntary sign-ups in the leagues. which allow for special rewards. (icons, achievements, cosmetics, etc.)
What would be interesting to see is a Pro Team Draft of sorts. Say when you get to Platinum-A's top 50, you're offered to enter the Starcraft 2 Professional Team Draft, where the teams in your area get to go through and pick the players they want, try them out, then make cuts like they do in Football when the next season starts again. This allows the best players to play professionally and keeps the top 50 spots fresh (seeing as they will consistently be switching people out to Pro League) and its not career ending if you get cut, like it is in Football (you cant go back to college and get back into the draft) because you can stay in the Platinum-A and just maintain your skill level and you'll be invited again next season, unless 50 people manage to get better than you over the course of the season.
I completely missed this as well, I'm glad it was bumped. This really gets me jazzed to play SC2...I don't really play on iccup, but I think this will work wonders for people who aren't familiar with it, with structured placing in leagues and whatnot. And having the ability to be paired with people of your skill level all the time will awesome (it was in Halo, AoM and other games of the variety). Especially since SC2 is gonna be big and stay big (if it doesn't I'd be shocked) this will be an integral part of how people think of SC2
in every leage(bronze, gold etc) there will be divisions with 100 players in each. you will be ranked against that other 99 people in your division so you will be always in the top 100
i wonder though, if you'll only be matched to people in your division, your entire league or your league and your league -1.
As in, if theres 100 people per division, chances are not all 100 are online all the time. Never mind that there will probably be less than 50 online. And imagine theres like 10 searching at the same time.
Would suck if you meet the same people ALL the time.
On December 13 2009 19:49 Radiomouse wrote: i wonder though, if you'll only be matched to people in your division, your entire league or your league and your league -1.
As in, if theres 100 people per division, chances are not all 100 are online all the time. Never mind that there will probably be less than 50 online. And imagine theres like 10 searching at the same time.
Would suck if you meet the same people ALL the time.
maybe you will play against everyone in your league but ranked only against people in your division.
On December 13 2009 19:49 Radiomouse wrote: i wonder though, if you'll only be matched to people in your division, your entire league or your league and your league -1.
As in, if theres 100 people per division, chances are not all 100 are online all the time. Never mind that there will probably be less than 50 online. And imagine theres like 10 searching at the same time.
Would suck if you meet the same people ALL the time.
Well if we have 7 leagues (Practice -> Pro) with 26 divisions (A-Z) at 100 players per division, that means that there are only 18200 spots on the ladder, an obviously FAR too low number. So I think what will happen is that there are going to be further subdivisions inside the A-Z area, say A1 - A10 or something like that. Which would allow 182000 players on the ladder (still probably too low, but more realistic). Now, if you were a Silver-B6, you would first be ranked against anyone in your division who were matching, but it would slowly expand to include Silver-B5 and Silver-B7 players. The difference between a S-B6 and an S-B7 player would be very small because of how granulated the ladder is. Even if you were matching between S-B4 and S-B8, you would only be matching against the closest ~.002% of the ladder.
Translated over to Iccup where at C+ level you could play anyone from #3151 - #4925 (approx. 1800 people) out of a ~40000 or so person ladder, you are matching against the closest .045% of the ladder.
Basically, in order for the SC2 ladder to be about as accurate as Iccup's ladder, you could be matched between ~8200 players. That meant if you were a S-B6 rank, you could play the 100 in your ladder and ~4000 in either direction. So, in theory, it could search as far as S-F6 all the way up to G-X6 and still be as accurate as saying you're a 'C+' rank in Iccup.
On December 13 2009 19:49 Radiomouse wrote: i wonder though, if you'll only be matched to people in your division, your entire league or your league and your league -1.
As in, if theres 100 people per division, chances are not all 100 are online all the time. Never mind that there will probably be less than 50 online. And imagine theres like 10 searching at the same time.
Would suck if you meet the same people ALL the time.
I'd expect there to be some overlap in skill between the top of one league and the bottom of another. Maybe even a divsion or 3 in each would be overlapped. This would stop people from bouncing in and out of divsions as much, because when you progress to another league you would be in the lower half of the league, but not the bottom division so that if you go on a small loosing streak you don't instantly pop back down a league.
If so then the AMM would be based off your skill ranking (a hidden value that you dont see), and the leagues/divisions are more or less just for show, as said, so you are visually compared to 100 people instead of all of them.
I know a lot of people are upset about Battle.net only allowing one account. Some people are worried there will be a monthly fee. At least it would cut down on the enraging smurf abuse we've seen in the TSL2.
cant wait to try Starcraft 2, really. But i think it will get popular for a little while like War3, then people will start go back to Broodwar again, seriously.
I'm certain Blizzard will make this all work out properly, they're a smart company...I'm a little worried about if there's 100 people in your league and none of them are online, what do you do then? haha
I think maybe you guys misunderstood the 100 player thing. I think what he was saying was that within each league, it will match you up with the 100 most equally skilled players. So each player's pool will look different.
I like the format of the league, I hope though that they gear the practice league to noobs who want to be hardcore and get good, and they allow smurfing, whole the copper league becomes for people who are looking for a more casual game, which would of course exclude smurfing.
the reason for this is because with all of the new anti-smurfing stuff blizzard is doing (which is good) i'm worried that it will discourage players from trying off-race or new BO's.
I think it's acceptable to have a league that allows smurfing, as long as the players know that there alternate anti-smurfing leagues, and expect to play players much better than they are.
If I'm understanding the league thing correctly. You play 10 games. Based on your performance in said 10 games, you are put into a certain league. Lets just say you get placed in the Silver League. Within the silver league, you get put into a division. I believe in the video it was just a number (Division 76 iirc), no alphabet involved (so that problem is alleviated). Then you will play people in your LEAGUE, but within the UI there's something to check the rankings in your DIVISION (whether they rank the division by win-loss, ELO, or some other type of rating system, well that remains to be seen). And then at the end of a season they put the top player(s?) of each division in a giant tournament to see who truly is the best of that league. I wouldn't be surprised either if they had achievements (possibly even avatars) related to being #1 in your division, or being #1 in your league.
All in all, I'm REALLY glad someone bumped this post because it somehow went under my nose and I'm REALLY excited to see how this league thing plays out. And most importantly, I hope the SC2 player base will be a lot bigger and last a lot longer than the WC3 player base, especially in regards to the actual game and not just the custom maps (though I am still really looking forward to the possibilities with the map maker).
The only real worry I have is how the leagues will be in the first season of the ladder because people will improve drastically as they learn new strategies with the new units and mechanics, or say a person in the copper league having a friend in the gold league that can teach him how to macro well, pay attention to his minimap, and hell, even teach him what the term "build order" means. We take these seemingly simple things for granted. For example, I introduced my roommate to starcraft not too long ago and he would do things I wouldn't have even thought of (though I'm sure I did back when I first played at the age of like 10) such as build a gas on 6/9 and then put 5 drones on it when its done. Or when I told him that his minerals were building up and he really needs to make a gateway because 400 minerals is way too high to let your money sit at in the beginning of the game, he laughed because he thought I was joking-- thinking that "well its not that much money anyways".
ANYWAYS, I SORT OF GOT SIDE TRACKED. The point is, SC2 needs to be amazing, and needs to come out soon. Damnit.
On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote: Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better.
i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league
Bronze is supposed to be a weak league... Having a weak league is a good thing.
I think you're grossly underestimating the millions and millions of newbs that are going to play this game at release.
Probably all but one of the SC players I know IRL would rarely win a d- game.
yeah, don't forget those numbers that even if you're a D+ you're better than something like 95% of people who have ever played starcraft, iccup C would probably be equivalent to the platinum league in this system as-is
I'm only D/D+ on iccup and i finished 2nd place in the SC2 tournament at Dreamhack. Not to mention i played about 40 games total during the event and only lost 3.
On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote: Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better.
i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league
Bronze is supposed to be a weak league... Having a weak league is a good thing.
I think you're grossly underestimating the millions and millions of newbs that are going to play this game at release.
Probably all but one of the SC players I know IRL would rarely win a d- game.
yeah, don't forget those numbers that even if you're a D+ you're better than something like 95% of people who have ever played starcraft, iccup C would probably be equivalent to the platinum league in this system as-is
I'm only D/D+ on iccup and i finished 2nd place in the SC2 tournament at Dreamhack. Not to mention i played about 40 games total during the event and only lost 3.
On December 15 2009 03:41 Huggusten wrote: I'm only D/D+ on iccup and i finished 2nd place in the SC2 tournament at Dreamhack. Not to mention i played about 40 games total during the event and only lost 3.
I am overwhelmingly excited for this feature of the new Batle.net. I can't wait.
With that out of the way, I watched the whole Battle net panel (not just the one clip linked, but the whole thing) from Blizzcon on YouTube and I found that a few things people were saying in this thread were not mentioned there at all; in particular, bumping up a division when you reach first place in your current one. Is there some other source that people are getting that information from or is it just speculation?
To me, it almost seems like that kind of a system wouldn't work, since in the Battle net panel, they explicitly said that they would have end of the season tournaments among a league for those who placed well in or won their respective divisions. If you're constantly being bumped up, you may be very good, and have improved a lot in a season, but you could still not win the division. Similarly, moving into first place in the division can not possibly be the only criteria for getting bumped up, since, as soon as someone gets moved up, a new person would move into first, caused them to move up, etc. All of this led me to believe that while your division will be people with a very similar skill level to you, you will not get bumped up a division mid-season (although this does not necessarily rule out getting bumped up a league). And while some divisions within any given league will have more highly skilled players than others, it would be possible not to designate any one division as "better" than any other, if the designers choose to do so.
I know that the current system we have (ICC) is strictly a ladder, where effectively no one will ever actually reach the top. I think what Blizzard is trying to do here, in fact, they pretty much said this, is to make it so you still have a ladder, but it's one you can actually win, for everyone. When you hit the top of your division, you would not go on to the next one right away, like you would with a rank on ICC, instead, you'd fight to stay at the top, with other players of your skill level, who are likely also improving at a similar rate to you, and at the end of the season, you could have the satisfaction of actually winning your division, doing literally the best you could have done. That's something that you can't get with what we have now. (Don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly grateful for ICC, and can't imagine the Broodwar scene without it, but like people have mentioned, its volunteer work, and you can't expect it to rival what Blizzard would do in a month, let alone years.)
maybe you will play against everyone in your league but ranked only against people in your division
this - as far as i understand.
but not only this. You will be ranked against these 100 people THE ENTIRE SEASON. And at the END of season top N people from the ENTIRE LEAGUE (not just your division) will participate in the LEAGUE TOURNAMENT to get a chance to go up a league.
Thus, even if you end up in a division with several really good players and don't get to Top1 of your division - you may be placed really high in terms of your entire league, and still get to participate in the tournament.
So, these divisions are not "the closer to number 1 - the better", i.e. no skill difference is pre-set for divisions. These are just DIVISIONS, like in other sports, e.g. basketball, there is East and there is West, and being #3 West doesn't mean you can't be better than #1 East.
And then at the end of a season they put the top player(s?) of each division in a giant tournament
not division, as you can't really tell which division is "better". Best players of the whole LEAGUE, selected by skill. Thus, #1 of Division Silver-11 may not appear in the tournament if his division is weak in terms of skill, while #1-2-3 from really hard Division Silver-129 may all participate - because their SKILL is among the best in the whole league.
On December 17 2009 13:53 Ozarugold wrote: Ooh~ this looks pretty neat. Although I'm probably going to be stuck in Practice League for...well, pretty much forever.
There is no way that anyone who has visited team liquid enough to post over 1800 times will ever be put into practice league without doing so entirely intentionally. I guarantee it. In fact, I'd venture to bet that not a single person that has read or will read this thread will ever even play in the copper league.
I hate the idea of being stuck in a certain divisin an entire season or whatever, seems fairly lame to me if this is how they will do it. The divisions shouldn be no more important than what a D, C, B or A rank mean in iccup, just gives you an idea of a players skill level
On December 18 2009 05:08 Response wrote: I hate the idea of being stuck in a certain divisin an entire season or whatever, seems fairly lame to me if this is how they will do it. The divisions shouldn be no more important than what a D, C, B or A rank mean in iccup, just gives you an idea of a players skill level
This system is not a ladder, at least not in the sense that ICC is today. Of course everyone who analyzes it like it is is going to think it sucks.
I personally think that this system is going to be amazingly fun. I also think that it will greatly increase the longevity of the game for many players. (Not the kind of players like us, who are clearly somewhat hardcore BW fans, but the less hardcore players.)
I personally think that this system is going to be amazingly fun
I totally agree. My experience of running local BW leagues tells that it is really fun for a casual/semihardcore player to make constant progress through his division as time goes by, possibly having a shot to participate in a "best of the best" tournament. Even if he doesn't advance - the fact he was selected makes him happy and proud of himself.
2 Response;
The divisions shouldn be no more important than what a D, C, B or A rank mean in iccup
Forget the ICCup/PGTour/BNet ladders. New league system is completely different. Don't even try to compare those things
On December 18 2009 12:41 fOscB.Sulik.SLR wrote: Forget the ICCup/PGTour/BNet ladders. New league system is completely different. Don't even try to compare those things
I WILL NEVER FORGET THE PGTOUR!!!
but you have an amazing point about this, its like comparing apples to oranges, yeah they're both fruit but other than that, there isnt much in common, so stop trying to force analogies
I am in the platinum league & gold league sometimes craft places you with people who are on lower leagues also placements. As i play i chat and people do tell me they are in bronze league's so im not sure how that works, maybe they are above their league and testing how well you do in another league im not sure.
Yeahh if you'll notice you posted in a thread that hasn't been posted in for over 3 months. Since the beta came out people have begun to really understand how the system works so nothing in this thread should really be relied upon. Check out this one for more info about how things work if you're curious: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=118212
I can understand how you came across this thread (+1 for using the search function), but damn this thread is almost a year old (plus, the blatant "old post" icons after each)!
what once your in the "pro league" you just get a gaming license or something that league sounds awesome and ridiculous at the same time BUT in other news i got put into platinum last night WOOT im pro bra
On April 09 2010 05:29 Spartan wrote: I can understand how you came across this thread (+1 for using the search function), but damn this thread is almost a year old (plus, the blatant "old post" icons after each)!
I'm interested in how the new leagues work since i didn't catch the 2 hour period when the server was up :D. They removed copper and I understand that the difference between copper and bronze was small, but is the new diamond league really above platinum. I heard some players say that they jumped from silver to platinum which sounds disturbing. Diamond player share with us if you notice only players who were previously really high in the platinum ladders or not in your division.
EPT![[image loading]](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2487/3843366465_20c8bc67de.jpg)
