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On December 13 2009 19:49 Radiomouse wrote:
i wonder though, if you'll only be matched to people in your division, your entire league or your league and your league -1.
As in, if theres 100 people per division, chances are not all 100 are online all the time. Never mind that there will probably be less than 50 online. And imagine theres like 10 searching at the same time.
Would suck if you meet the same people ALL the time.
Well if we have 7 leagues (Practice -> Pro) with 26 divisions (A-Z) at 100 players per division, that means that there are only 18200 spots on the ladder, an obviously FAR too low number. So I think what will happen is that there are going to be further subdivisions inside the A-Z area, say A1 - A10 or something like that. Which would allow 182000 players on the ladder (still probably too low, but more realistic). Now, if you were a Silver-B6, you would first be ranked against anyone in your division who were matching, but it would slowly expand to include Silver-B5 and Silver-B7 players. The difference between a S-B6 and an S-B7 player would be very small because of how granulated the ladder is. Even if you were matching between S-B4 and S-B8, you would only be matching against the closest ~.002% of the ladder.
Translated over to Iccup where at C+ level you could play anyone from #3151 - #4925 (approx. 1800 people) out of a ~40000 or so person ladder, you are matching against the closest .045% of the ladder.
Basically, in order for the SC2 ladder to be about as accurate as Iccup's ladder, you could be matched between ~8200 players. That meant if you were a S-B6 rank, you could play the 100 in your ladder and ~4000 in either direction. So, in theory, it could search as far as S-F6 all the way up to G-X6 and still be as accurate as saying you're a 'C+' rank in Iccup.
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On December 13 2009 19:49 Radiomouse wrote:
i wonder though, if you'll only be matched to people in your division, your entire league or your league and your league -1.
As in, if theres 100 people per division, chances are not all 100 are online all the time. Never mind that there will probably be less than 50 online. And imagine theres like 10 searching at the same time.
Would suck if you meet the same people ALL the time.
I'd expect there to be some overlap in skill between the top of one league and the bottom of another. Maybe even a divsion or 3 in each would be overlapped. This would stop people from bouncing in and out of divsions as much, because when you progress to another league you would be in the lower half of the league, but not the bottom division so that if you go on a small loosing streak you don't instantly pop back down a league.
If so then the AMM would be based off your skill ranking (a hidden value that you dont see), and the leagues/divisions are more or less just for show, as said, so you are visually compared to 100 people instead of all of them.
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I know a lot of people are upset about Battle.net only allowing one account. Some people are worried there will be a monthly fee. At least it would cut down on the enraging smurf abuse we've seen in the TSL2.
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cant wait to try Starcraft 2, really. But i think it will get popular for a little while like War3, then people will start go back to Broodwar again, seriously.
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I'm certain Blizzard will make this all work out properly, they're a smart company...I'm a little worried about if there's 100 people in your league and none of them are online, what do you do then? haha
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Will teamliquid keep going on? or will there be a "new" Starcraft 2 site? I mean for the community.
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I think maybe you guys misunderstood the 100 player thing. I think what he was saying was that within each league, it will match you up with the 100 most equally skilled players. So each player's pool will look different.
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I like the format of the league, I hope though that they gear the practice league to noobs who want to be hardcore and get good, and they allow smurfing, whole the copper league becomes for people who are looking for a more casual game, which would of course exclude smurfing.
the reason for this is because with all of the new anti-smurfing stuff blizzard is doing (which is good) i'm worried that it will discourage players from trying off-race or new BO's.
I think it's acceptable to have a league that allows smurfing, as long as the players know that there alternate anti-smurfing leagues, and expect to play players much better than they are.
just my 2-sense...
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On December 14 2009 06:19 NiGoL wrote:
Will teamliquid keep going on? or will there be a "new" Starcraft 2 site? I mean for the community.
Long live teamliquid.net !!! It'll only die if the members let it die!
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If I'm understanding the league thing correctly. You play 10 games. Based on your performance in said 10 games, you are put into a certain league. Lets just say you get placed in the Silver League. Within the silver league, you get put into a division. I believe in the video it was just a number (Division 76 iirc), no alphabet involved (so that problem is alleviated). Then you will play people in your LEAGUE, but within the UI there's something to check the rankings in your DIVISION (whether they rank the division by win-loss, ELO, or some other type of rating system, well that remains to be seen). And then at the end of a season they put the top player(s?) of each division in a giant tournament to see who truly is the best of that league. I wouldn't be surprised either if they had achievements (possibly even avatars) related to being #1 in your division, or being #1 in your league.
All in all, I'm REALLY glad someone bumped this post because it somehow went under my nose and I'm REALLY excited to see how this league thing plays out. And most importantly, I hope the SC2 player base will be a lot bigger and last a lot longer than the WC3 player base, especially in regards to the actual game and not just the custom maps (though I am still really looking forward to the possibilities with the map maker).
The only real worry I have is how the leagues will be in the first season of the ladder because people will improve drastically as they learn new strategies with the new units and mechanics, or say a person in the copper league having a friend in the gold league that can teach him how to macro well, pay attention to his minimap, and hell, even teach him what the term "build order" means. We take these seemingly simple things for granted. For example, I introduced my roommate to starcraft not too long ago and he would do things I wouldn't have even thought of (though I'm sure I did back when I first played at the age of like 10) such as build a gas on 6/9 and then put 5 drones on it when its done. Or when I told him that his minerals were building up and he really needs to make a gateway because 400 minerals is way too high to let your money sit at in the beginning of the game, he laughed because he thought I was joking-- thinking that "well its not that much money anyways".
ANYWAYS, I SORT OF GOT SIDE TRACKED. The point is, SC2 needs to be amazing, and needs to come out soon. Damnit.
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Should be interesting, We'll see how it goes 
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I can't wait to see how they are handling it. The last game I played with a ranking system (DWII) left me with a foul taste in my mouth.
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On August 29 2009 11:38 zeppelin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 11:30 Tsagacity wrote:On August 29 2009 11:26 fabiano wrote:On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote:
Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better. i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league Bronze is supposed to be a weak league... Having a weak league is a good thing. I think you're grossly underestimating the millions and millions of newbs that are going to play this game at release. Probably all but one of the SC players I know IRL would rarely win a d- game. yeah, don't forget those numbers that even if you're a D+ you're better than something like 95% of people who have ever played starcraft, iccup C would probably be equivalent to the platinum league in this system as-is
I'm only D/D+ on iccup and i finished 2nd place in the SC2 tournament at Dreamhack.
Not to mention i played about 40 games total during the event and only lost 3.
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pretty sure everyone is going to start at copper. like in iccup. start at the second worst league.
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On December 15 2009 03:41 Huggusten wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2009 11:38 zeppelin wrote:On August 29 2009 11:30 Tsagacity wrote:On August 29 2009 11:26 fabiano wrote:On August 29 2009 11:15 killanator wrote:
Im really looking forward to this. Im pretty terrible at starcraft, and i have some friends who are as well, and get discouraged when they cant even beat a D-. Now they can just play practice league or play copper or bronze and win half their games. Should work out for the better. i dont wanna sound mean, but if they cant beat D- i hope they cant win any game on bronze league, otherwise it would be a really weak league Bronze is supposed to be a weak league... Having a weak league is a good thing. I think you're grossly underestimating the millions and millions of newbs that are going to play this game at release. Probably all but one of the SC players I know IRL would rarely win a d- game. yeah, don't forget those numbers that even if you're a D+ you're better than something like 95% of people who have ever played starcraft, iccup C would probably be equivalent to the platinum league in this system as-is I'm only D/D+ on iccup and i finished 2nd place in the SC2 tournament at Dreamhack. Not to mention i played about 40 games total during the event and only lost 3.
that's unbelievable dude.
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On December 15 2009 03:41 Huggusten wrote:
I'm only D/D+ on iccup and i finished 2nd place in the SC2 tournament at Dreamhack.
Not to mention i played about 40 games total during the event and only lost 3.
Huggusten SC2 bonjwa.
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I am overwhelmingly excited for this feature of the new Batle.net. I can't wait.
With that out of the way, I watched the whole Battle net panel (not just the one clip linked, but the whole thing) from Blizzcon on YouTube and I found that a few things people were saying in this thread were not mentioned there at all; in particular, bumping up a division when you reach first place in your current one. Is there some other source that people are getting that information from or is it just speculation?
To me, it almost seems like that kind of a system wouldn't work, since in the Battle net panel, they explicitly said that they would have end of the season tournaments among a league for those who placed well in or won their respective divisions. If you're constantly being bumped up, you may be very good, and have improved a lot in a season, but you could still not win the division. Similarly, moving into first place in the division can not possibly be the only criteria for getting bumped up, since, as soon as someone gets moved up, a new person would move into first, caused them to move up, etc. All of this led me to believe that while your division will be people with a very similar skill level to you, you will not get bumped up a division mid-season (although this does not necessarily rule out getting bumped up a league). And while some divisions within any given league will have more highly skilled players than others, it would be possible not to designate any one division as "better" than any other, if the designers choose to do so.
I know that the current system we have (ICC) is strictly a ladder, where effectively no one will ever actually reach the top. I think what Blizzard is trying to do here, in fact, they pretty much said this, is to make it so you still have a ladder, but it's one you can actually win, for everyone. When you hit the top of your division, you would not go on to the next one right away, like you would with a rank on ICC, instead, you'd fight to stay at the top, with other players of your skill level, who are likely also improving at a similar rate to you, and at the end of the season, you could have the satisfaction of actually winning your division, doing literally the best you could have done. That's something that you can't get with what we have now. (Don't get me wrong, I'm incredibly grateful for ICC, and can't imagine the Broodwar scene without it, but like people have mentioned, its volunteer work, and you can't expect it to rival what Blizzard would do in a month, let alone years.)
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maybe you will play against everyone in your league but ranked only against people in your division
this - as far as i understand.
but not only this.
You will be ranked against these 100 people THE ENTIRE SEASON.
And at the END of season top N people from the ENTIRE LEAGUE (not just your division) will participate in the LEAGUE TOURNAMENT to get a chance to go up a league.
Thus, even if you end up in a division with several really good players and don't get to Top1 of your division - you may be placed really high in terms of your entire league, and still get to participate in the tournament.
So, these divisions are not "the closer to number 1 - the better", i.e. no skill difference is pre-set for divisions. These are just DIVISIONS, like in other sports, e.g. basketball, there is East and there is West, and being #3 West doesn't mean you can't be better than #1 East.
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And then at the end of a season they put the top player(s?) of each division in a giant tournament
not division, as you can't really tell which division is "better".
Best players of the whole LEAGUE, selected by skill.
Thus, #1 of Division Silver-11 may not appear in the tournament if his division is weak in terms of skill, while #1-2-3 from really hard Division Silver-129 may all participate - because their SKILL is among the best in the whole league.
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EPT
