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On August 25 2009 14:43 KinosJourney2 wrote:
Zerg seems so shitty atm, you gotta constantly use your queen to get enough larvae and anyways you wont survive late game cause the other races are better. The extra larvae should be an extra feature to your hatcheries not your only way to get enough units to survive. I say protoss and terran > zerg atm.
Zerg needs some more work IMO like a late game boost (new unit or better upgrades) and a nerfed queen + better hatcheries.
How in the world did you come to that conclusion? If you've even been following what's been said it sounds like the queen provide an insane bonus, not that they are underpowered. To find such conclusions that toss + terran both > zerg is ridiculous to me.
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There is basically zero point in complaining about racial balance until the expansion pack comes out, let alone the full game.
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On August 25 2009 19:05 Zanno wrote:
There is basically zero point in complaining about racial balance until the expansion pack comes out, let alone the full game.
Blizzard has said they don't know if they are going to add units in each expansion pack or not. I would imagine the 2nd Expansion would have added units for multiplayer and the 3rd Expansion wouldn't, or you could vice versa due to incentive to sale the 3rd....Either or, I don't think both Expansions will have units included.
Secondly, we would like to play the most balanced game possible for the year / year and a half until each Expansion gets released.
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I was afraid of sc2 because of shit like in CnC3, EVERYTHING has an ability and then DoW2 came out and most things have an ability so whenever you get into a fight, all you do you just shit all your abilities on the enemy and by the time the next skirmish happens, everything has been recharged.
Especially in DoW2 where energy was pretty high so you could basically use your abilities every time the cooldown had ended.
I want to play a strategy game, not "who can shit what out the most". Some abilities do need skill to use effectively like storm and dust cloud, but when everything has one where all you need to do is headbutt your keyboard then thats just pretty gay yo
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On August 25 2009 19:26 ToT)OjKa( wrote:
I was afraid of sc2 because of shit like in CnC3, EVERYTHING has an ability and then DoW2 came out and most things have an ability so whenever you get into a fight, all you do you just shit all your abilities on the enemy and by the time the next skirmish happens, everything has been recharged.
Especially in DoW2 where energy was pretty high so you could basically use your abilities every time the cooldown had ended.
I want to play a strategy game, not "who can shit what out the most". Some abilities do need skill to use effectively like storm and dust cloud, but when everything has one where all you need to do is headbutt your keyboard then thats just pretty gay yo
/facepalm
You do know there is +1 or -1 for each race the same amount of abilities. Do people not look into this further before they say things like this? Wouldn't you rather have useful abilities that take the same number as in SC1 vice the mostly shitty abilities in SC1 so you are left with mostly useless junk?
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FuDDx
United States5008 Posts
I will not get into all the crazy stuff the short of it is......
I loved this game I can not wait to try it out more.I only got about 12 games in.I had no experience with higher tech in any race. I played Zerg once didnt like them based off one time so I could end up liking them more with more play. Terran and toss I enjoyed playing so much. When SC2 comes out My wife my leave me. hahha
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What did you think of the new macro mechanics (spawn larva, proton charge, mule)?
i mainly played zerg at blizzcon after building a queen for the first time because spawn larva is off the wall insane good
-What did you think of the macro casters (queen, obelisk, orbital command)?
the queen seems way stronger than both the obelisk and the orbital command. the queen keeps your options open and allows you to punish your oponnents weakness in their build order. with only costing 150 minerals you get a unit that can defend or be offensive and it can spawn 4 larva whenever, lol wut? the queen i believe was created so that a zerg player could keep up 1 base vs 1 base but it actually puts you ahead always, which doesnt seem fair
-Were they fun to use?
not really, it felt like i was cheating
-How often did you use them?
anytime casting spawn larva was possible
-What decision-making was involved with them?
do i need to build 4 more units per hatchery? oh, i do? ok.
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On August 25 2009 19:20 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 19:05 Zanno wrote:
There is basically zero point in complaining about racial balance until the expansion pack comes out, let alone the full game. Blizzard has said they don't know if they are going to add units in each expansion pack or not. I would imagine the 2nd Expansion would have added units for multiplayer and the 3rd Expansion wouldn't, or you could vice versa due to incentive to sale the 3rd....Either or, I don't think both Expansions will have units included. Secondly, we would like to play the most balanced game possible for the year / year and a half until each Expansion gets released. That's not what Samwise said here:
http://kotaku.com/5345140/keeping-things-fresh-in-the-starcraft-ii-expansions
Given that Blizzard's tendencies are to add two units in their expansions, they'll probably add one unit per expansion this time. The fact that there are going to be two expansion packs to this game was confirmed ages ago. I'm calling it now that one of the expansion units will obviously be the terran medic.
He said that they are definitely withholding things and this is nothing new - Dark Templar and Valkyries were withheld for the SC expansion, the Night Elf Warden and Troll Shadow Hunter were also withheld for the WC3 expansion.
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The Orbital Command definitely forced you to balance between the MULE and SCAN and the supply depot made terran a more forgiving race. Can't really say they were very enjoyable; however, they definitely add depth.
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Btw, does f2-f4 save location commands exist in sc2? I mean now that double tapping hotkeys won't be an alternative.
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I think a big question would be what kind of decision making should be involved in mining. For one do you really want to have to make decisions whenever you want to mine?
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OH another thing I just remembered that was quite annoying...
When you hit the ` button to go to your idle worker... even if you double tap it, it won't move you to its screen. So basically You don't know where that idle worker is, its quite annoying.
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On August 26 2009 05:24 hifriend wrote:
Btw, does f2-f4 save location commands exist in sc2? I mean now that double tapping hotkeys won't be an alternative.
I tried it and it didn't work, although where are you getting double-tapping hotkeys doesn't work? I'm 99% sure I used double-tapping to go back to buildings and units all the time.
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On August 26 2009 05:51 Archerofaiur wrote:
I think a big question would be what kind of decision making should be involved in mining. For one do you really want to have to make decisions whenever you want to mine?
we already make decisions in mining in SC1 (such as do I want to cut probes, when to get gas, when to expand, etc). The most optimal and best decisions have already been determined for a long time now though. SC2 will be no different in time.
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On August 26 2009 06:37 Ideas wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2009 05:51 Archerofaiur wrote:
I think a big question would be what kind of decision making should be involved in mining. For one do you really want to have to make decisions whenever you want to mine? we already make decisions in mining in SC1 (such as do I want to cut probes, when to get gas, when to expand, etc).
Good point but there in lay the problem with manual mining. The decisions for workers were mostly temporal not spacial. When not where. Thats part of why automining was put in. AM focuses on the when.
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What did you think of the new macro mechanics (spawn larva, proton charge, mule)?
I think they work quite well. I only played a limited amount of the game (like everyone else here), so I'm not going to give it final judgment like many seem to be doing.
-What did you think of the macro casters (queen, obelisk, orbital command)?
To be honest I always forgot to make my queen. I played all my games without her (or I built her during mid game and was too busy doing other stuff to use her abilities). That being said, I beat every guy I face at the community tournaments with a makeshift 2-3 hatch muta and early zergling harass.
-Were they fun to use?
I killed other people's Queens quite quickly with just 5 mutas, they really aren't intimidating defenders, so I'm glad they aren't like heroes in that sense
-How often did you use them?
barely ever, because I was so new to the game
-What decision-making was involved with them?
im sure there will be many, but really I had such a limited time with the game that I don't feel comfortable commenting
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I didn't know that the mule was actually 6x SCV; that makes the tradeoff between the mule and comsat an actual tradeoff instead of just ignoring the mule altogether, but it's still a painful one because you lose the ability to comsat.
I know lurker is hive tech now and raven/banshee share the same tech level so terran should be able to get ravens for detection vs. those, but how high up on the tree is the Dark Templar? Although if marine/marauder is viable vs. protoss then T would probably end up getting an ebay anyway, and thus can build turrets for detection.
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Anyways, overall:
I was very scared of SC2 and I didn't like a few things I saw in gameplay videos. However, after actually playing it for a bit, I was very pleased that this game is going to be very much life Starcraft:BW, but the new units and abilities are going to change the game into a newer, more interesting experience.
All the new abilities were very intimidating and I didn't know when to use them and didn't have time to think of strategies besides those I knew from BW. I don't feel anyone here has the right to talk about how balanced this game is when they only played a limited amount of time of the game and against players who had no idea how to bring all the new content together into solid strategies/counters.
All I can really say is that the game feels very nice, it's simple, and yet the depth is clearly there. It feels overwhelming, and some of the units seem uselss with so many new options, but this is simply because people still see it as an edited version of brood war, as opposed to a new game.
Can't wait to play the beta ^_^
oh, and in the brief time I used them, siege tanks were very effective.
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Calgary25987 Posts
Get over it. The comsat isn't necessary in SC2.
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Some info from this thread
http://sclegacy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1250
Q: Are the macro mechanics working like expected, or do they get too repetitive after a while? What about their mineral-only aspect? Does that work late game, or the mineral-only units are getting smashed by superior tech, anyways? Won't the mineral/gas ratio skew gameplay to basic units and static defenses?
A: One thing I did not like about the game how it is, is the fact that while playing Protoss and using PC I got a TON of minerals, like a LOT!! And I could make a bajillion Zealots, Terrans "Mule calldown" is almost counter productive, you have to pay 150 minerals to have your command center stop doing anything for about 60 seconds at least just to upgrade to Orbital Command.
As for is the new econ stuff just a APM sink or is it effective, Mule felt like an APM sink because you didn't feel the minerals coming in, I'm sure you got a more then usual amount but you don't feel it, and hitting 1, E, and clicking on a mineral field is hardly APM sink. For PC you REALLY feel it, it adds 1 mineral for each trip for your probes, and it shows a LOT. Protoss gets so much more minerals than the other races (at least early-mid to early late game) that if you got the obalisk rather quickly for PC than you would basicly win every time because you can now make 1 Zealot for every 2 zerglings or 2 marines.
That being said it felt like since the Mule calldown was so poor for mineral gain, the Terran was VERY behind on the economy race. Zerg has the larva spawn which gets expansions up in about 3 seconds, and Protoss can kill people with numbers alone. I did actually test this theory and my body was able to make as ALMOST as many Zealots as I has marines in the space of about 10 minutes, Terran Econ just feels realllly slow, and it hurts them a lot because their units are not all that strong, and the new pathing helps melee units a lot.
As for gas, once you got an expansion or 2 it wasn't to too bad, it did feel just about balanced. What they need to do though it either take out PC, Mule, and possibly larva spawn out completely, or take a hard look at balancing the fact that Protoss can produce as much as Terran, but all their units are at least double the strength.
Interesting point - you could build queens and obelisk without stopping drone/probe production, but when you want orbital command, you must shut down your SCV production for a significant time.
The terran macro mechanic seems worse every time I hear about it...
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EPT
