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On August 25 2009 14:22 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 14:13 TheYango wrote:On August 25 2009 11:38 BlackSphinx wrote:
Generally people will play a few unrateds before jumping into rated games, making it so there are always a great quantity of unrated games available. No problem with search times whatsoever.
This, IMO, would be perfect for SC2 too. Especially if they add thumbs down and thumbs up for matchups (like, say, I wanna play TvT and TvZ, but no TvP, or I just wanna practice TvZ)), like for maps in WC3 (you can choose to never play a map in WC3).
It would just make sense and would be a natural evolution.
The problem with unrated games is not the quantity of players, but the quality. Unrated is rarely played by those with established ratings, at least not in any significant numbers, and that makes it hard for higher level players to utilize it well. A B- Terran might have a C Zerg, or be practicing a new build that he plays like a C+, but if unrated is filled with Ds and D+s, he can't really effectively practice. Ever stop to think that in SC and WC3 that not many people play Custom/unrated is exactly because they can have as many accounts as they want thereby allowing them to bypass the need to use such an outlet. Now with Real ID more people looking for those things instead of playing on the ladder will be...guess where? Custom/unrated...bingo! It's not going to be a problem in SC2 finding competitive unrated games for this reason (Real ID).
In Sc I see lots of unrated games. So I am assuming you mean just wc3 because I always see plenty of unrated and whenever I host an unrated I get someone to join instantly. If its only 1 account I bet more of the higher up players will also be doing it 
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Osaka27174 Posts
Account =! ID ? One account, many IDs. Each ID probably has its own rating. Problem solved. How does this thread need 25 pages.
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On August 25 2009 16:25 Manifesto7 wrote:
Account =! ID ? One account, many IDs. Each ID probably has its own rating. Problem solved. How does this thread need 25 pages.
As far as I know you cant create more than 1 ID per account, nowhere they stated a desire for allowing it.
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On August 25 2009 16:30 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 16:25 Manifesto7 wrote:
Account =! ID ? One account, many IDs. Each ID probably has its own rating. Problem solved. How does this thread need 25 pages. As far as I know you cant create more than 1 ID per account, nowhere they stated a desire for allowing it.
Plus, from this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=100568
Slashdot: It looks like the new league system is going a long way toward making the play experience much better across the board, and will allow people to grow at their own pace. What can you tell us about how this system works?
Dustin Browder: We think this system will really help a lot of players. Even if you are going to stay down in the copper league forever, at least you are playing against your skill level and can hope to win something. In Warcraft 3, minus the "Smurfs" who would come through and ruin everybody's day, we had a pretty good matchmaking system and you could win about half your games. I know most people would prefer to win about 70% of their games, but that would mean someone else has to lose 70% of their games, and we don't want that. If we can match you against your skill level, I think that's where you wanna be and you'll have a good time. So now, if I can put you in a bronze league of 100 players and all those players are your skill level, that means you have a shot of being number one in that league at the end of the season. I think that is going to be a lot more fun for people. When you go to play intramural softball, you know Sammy Sosa isn't showing up. While it might be fun for about two minutes, it would ruin the game and no one would have a good time. If we can keep everyone organized into the skill level they belong I think everyone will have a lot more fun.
it looks like they are compeletely killing off smurfing, which would mean no multiple IDs
however, there are still easy ways to abuse these tournaments, though they would require a tiny bit more effort or money...
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Osaka27174 Posts
Well that is fucking stupid then. Flame on people, flame on!
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On August 25 2009 14:11 dcttr66 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2009 18:17 lepape wrote:
Also, FrozenArbiter's suggestion to be able to have many accounts all tied to the main account with shared stats is really the most logical solution, I can't think of any downside to this idea. how about the one i mentioned about the fact that the hidden identity makes the player unrecognizable? so he can play someone who hasn't changed his name and know how he plays and the other guy knows nothing about him...that's a downside.
How about the fact that a known player play an unknown one? The latter was able to study the former's play style in depth, whereas the former does not know anything about the latter.
How is that not a downside? ;;
On August 25 2009 14:22 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 14:13 TheYango wrote:On August 25 2009 11:38 BlackSphinx wrote:
Generally people will play a few unrateds before jumping into rated games, making it so there are always a great quantity of unrated games available. No problem with search times whatsoever.
This, IMO, would be perfect for SC2 too. Especially if they add thumbs down and thumbs up for matchups (like, say, I wanna play TvT and TvZ, but no TvP, or I just wanna practice TvZ)), like for maps in WC3 (you can choose to never play a map in WC3).
It would just make sense and would be a natural evolution.
The problem with unrated games is not the quantity of players, but the quality. Unrated is rarely played by those with established ratings, at least not in any significant numbers, and that makes it hard for higher level players to utilize it well. A B- Terran might have a C Zerg, or be practicing a new build that he plays like a C+, but if unrated is filled with Ds and D+s, he can't really effectively practice. Ever stop to think that in SC and WC3 that not many people play Custom/unrated is exactly because they can have as many accounts as they want thereby allowing them to bypass the need to use such an outlet. Now with Real ID more people looking for those things instead of playing on the ladder will be...guess where? Custom/unrated...bingo! It's not going to be a problem in SC2 finding competitive unrated games for this reason (Real ID).
Except you can't even make a game name in SC2. T___T
And AMM is still MUCH more convenient.
On August 25 2009 14:20 Aegraen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 14:13 FragKrag wrote:On August 25 2009 08:43 Rakanishu2 wrote:
Everyone who is against this idea, prepare to be countered:
Play custom or unrated.
Brother wants to play? Unrated
New Race? Unrated
New Strategy? Unrated
I'm expected they'll just gloss over this and argue with the others, but you can't say I didn't try. Or, Don't want to lose points to people better than you? Unrated that way we can both be bigots Empiraclly more often than not it is the higher ranked players that whine the most about losing. Most of the players on the lower rungs of the ladder don't mind losing, they just want to have a fun time in the process. Getting absolutely demolished isn't fun to them.
Funnily, I've got the opposite impression.
It's newbs who whine about things like "Hunts imba" or that they've got bashed by an A/B player whereas in fact it was a mere D+ or C-. ;/
On August 25 2009 16:34 blue_arrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 16:30 D10 wrote:On August 25 2009 16:25 Manifesto7 wrote:
Account =! ID ? One account, many IDs. Each ID probably has its own rating. Problem solved. How does this thread need 25 pages. As far as I know you cant create more than 1 ID per account, nowhere they stated a desire for allowing it. Plus, from this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=100568Show nested quote +Slashdot: It looks like the new league system is going a long way toward making the play experience much better across the board, and will allow people to grow at their own pace. What can you tell us about how this system works?
Dustin Browder: We think this system will really help a lot of players. Even if you are going to stay down in the copper league forever, at least you are playing against your skill level and can hope to win something. In Warcraft 3, minus the "Smurfs" who would come through and ruin everybody's day, we had a pretty good matchmaking system and you could win about half your games. I know most people would prefer to win about 70% of their games, but that would mean someone else has to lose 70% of their games, and we don't want that. If we can match you against your skill level, I think that's where you wanna be and you'll have a good time. So now, if I can put you in a bronze league of 100 players and all those players are your skill level, that means you have a shot of being number one in that league at the end of the season. I think that is going to be a lot more fun for people. When you go to play intramural softball, you know Sammy Sosa isn't showing up. While it might be fun for about two minutes, it would ruin the game and no one would have a good time. If we can keep everyone organized into the skill level they belong I think everyone will have a lot more fun. it looks like they are compeletely killing off smurfing, which would mean no multiple IDs however, there are still easy ways to abuse these tournaments, though they would require a tiny bit more effort or money...
So they kill all the positive and/or unharmful aspects of smurfing while hardly limiting the actual noob bashing (Casual League, players with RTS experience vs. complete newcomers, mass dropping games to play lower ranked opponents, start of the season)?
Great job, Blizzard!
On August 25 2009 14:25 dcttr66 wrote:
what the? and that's a problem because...? dude they can be like the WoW players' mentors, that's no problem at all.
That's the prime argument one account per game supporters have - it supposedly limits noob bashing.
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How about this! Everyones name is simply ???
There now you have no fucking clue who you are playing nor the style they use until after the game when the name is displayed.
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On August 25 2009 19:16 Aegraen wrote:
How about this! Everyones name is simply ???
There now you have no fucking clue who you are playing nor the style they use until after the game when the name is displayed.
Why? The vast majority of people would not want that, and even people who smurf do that only occasionally...
And how would you meet new people, seeing as there are no chat channels. ;;
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On August 25 2009 19:36 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 19:16 Aegraen wrote:
How about this! Everyones name is simply ???
There now you have no fucking clue who you are playing nor the style they use until after the game when the name is displayed. Why? The vast majority of people would not want that, and even people who smurf do that only occasionally... And how would you meet new people, seeing as there are no chat channels. ;;
I love how you know the oppinion of the vast majority of people.
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Maybe it will make the bnet experience less douchy.
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On August 25 2009 20:09 Ota Solgryn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 19:36 maybenexttime wrote:On August 25 2009 19:16 Aegraen wrote:
How about this! Everyones name is simply ???
There now you have no fucking clue who you are playing nor the style they use until after the game when the name is displayed. Why? The vast majority of people would not want that, and even people who smurf do that only occasionally... And how would you meet new people, seeing as there are no chat channels. ;; I love how you know the oppinion of the vast majority of people.
I am not the one saying that smurfs are in the minority...
If the majority of people do not smurf, they would not want everybody to basically turn into a smurf. Simple logic... T_________T
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Sweden33719 Posts
On August 25 2009 16:09 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2009 14:22 Aegraen wrote:On August 25 2009 14:13 TheYango wrote:On August 25 2009 11:38 BlackSphinx wrote:
Generally people will play a few unrateds before jumping into rated games, making it so there are always a great quantity of unrated games available. No problem with search times whatsoever.
This, IMO, would be perfect for SC2 too. Especially if they add thumbs down and thumbs up for matchups (like, say, I wanna play TvT and TvZ, but no TvP, or I just wanna practice TvZ)), like for maps in WC3 (you can choose to never play a map in WC3).
It would just make sense and would be a natural evolution.
The problem with unrated games is not the quantity of players, but the quality. Unrated is rarely played by those with established ratings, at least not in any significant numbers, and that makes it hard for higher level players to utilize it well. A B- Terran might have a C Zerg, or be practicing a new build that he plays like a C+, but if unrated is filled with Ds and D+s, he can't really effectively practice. Ever stop to think that in SC and WC3 that not many people play Custom/unrated is exactly because they can have as many accounts as they want thereby allowing them to bypass the need to use such an outlet. Now with Real ID more people looking for those things instead of playing on the ladder will be...guess where? Custom/unrated...bingo! It's not going to be a problem in SC2 finding competitive unrated games for this reason (Real ID). In Sc I see lots of unrated games. So I am assuming you mean just wc3 because I always see plenty of unrated and whenever I host an unrated I get someone to join instantly. If its only 1 account I bet more of the higher up players will also be doing it
Of course you see a lot of unrated games in SC - THERE ARE NO RATED GAMES ;(
Unless you play on ICCUP, then it's only rated games pretty much.
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I have an idea that might solve this:
They said they just dont want n00b/newbie bashers right? But what if the pros want to smurg inorder to train for like the Proleague, and they have this amazing startegy that they want to use, but because you are forced to be known as Lee Jae Dong, everyone will know.
However, it is still possible to play anonymously. Maybe, they will allow you to change your game ID (ex. mine is Sharp-eYe), and there can be an option were you can turn off "reveal my real ID." This way, the top leagues's players will have no idea who you are, and you will not be able to noob bash because you are not allowed to go into the smaller leagues. Also, this option to change your game ID can be unlimited. Either that or allow multiple game ID's.
I have faith in Blizzard. Besides, they have platforms like steam to compete with, so they might as well do something like this.
Taking away smurfing = good.
Taking away anonymity = horrible.
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i don't see how anyone can actually be against this, if you have to bash noobs to boost your ego then you're a loser anyways
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Canada11559 Posts
@Pacer and iamho.
Reading this thread, I have yet to see someone in favour of bashing noobs (with the sole exception of one individual who was feeling contrary enough to threaten to purposefully drop his stats.) There are reasons to be against this and it has nothing to do with bashing noobs. (I am a noob myself.)
Taking away smurfing = good.
Taking away anonymity = horrible.
Here, here.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 26 2009 05:34 iamho wrote:
i don't see how anyone can actually be against this, if you have to bash noobs to boost your ego then you're a loser anyways
Most of the people that are arguing against this in a logical fashion have other legitimate reasons to want multiple accounts other than noob-bashing. Either you're trolling, or you aren't making enough of an effort to see both sides of this.
Personally, I have faith that Blizzard will find some compromise that will please both sides, but both extremes are pretty unacceptable at this point.
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On August 25 2009 16:38 Manifesto7 wrote:
Well that is fucking stupid then. Flame on people, flame on!
Lol and yeah wtf why are they moneygrubbing SC the reason it was such a huge success in korea was that it was cheap, the only reason they are doing this is so they can make money off name changes and new accounts. pretty sad imo.
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I mean they already make what like 150 million per month off wow subscribers.
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Osaka27174 Posts
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EPT
