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Being limited to one account would really suck. And for you who whines about smurfing, and says that every smurfer out there just want to bash noobs.. Aren't you of the same sort? Since you seem to DON'T want to play against better players. Deal with it.
Smurfing was never there for a clean stat record. On iCCup, for example, you can /clearstats YES, and your stats will go down to 0-0. THIS was made for you to be able to get a clean stat record.
I've been playing BW for four years, and I have probably made over 50 accounts. Every time I made a new account, I was not happy with my name. Also, I keep different accounts for different races, just so I can do whatever I want and still keep my original rank on another account.
Also, I've not read twelve pages of whine, so my comment might take up subjects that were already deeply discussed. -_-
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this game is a joke , blizzard is a shadow of a company they were 10 years ago
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I want to smurf..  I mean, at the beginning I'll be pretty sure a fucking idiot with my race, but I don't want to have this stuff on my account just 5 years after the release which makes me still look like and idiot 8[
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On August 22 2009 21:42 BBS wrote:I want to smurf.. I mean, at the beginning I'll be pretty sure a fucking idiot with my race, but I don't want to have this stuff on my account just 5 years after the release which makes me still look like and idiot 8[
If you feel bad in your inner self because of a game then i'm sorry sir but you ARE an idiot  .
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Meh smurfing isn't a problem for me. If I didn't get smurffed, it would have taken me so much longer to get to D. Infact you gain so much more exp compared to playing (even winning) against your own level.
But my friend who just started playing scbw really hates the smurfing, but that is negated by playing just with his friends who are willing to patiently teach him the game. In no time he got better.
It is just a matter of perspective, but I still prefer smurfing, since it forces me (without knowing) to play a better player.
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On August 22 2009 20:56 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2009 20:20 Skyze wrote:
what do you mean you cant race pick in wc3 ladder??
You pick whatever race you want to play, simple as that.
The thing I think you mean, is you dont pick what race you play AGAINST.. which is friggin retarded if you do anyways, I cant STAND those guys who play like ZvT, ZvP and TvZ... If you cant play one matchup for your race, you just cant play your race.. Learn all 3 matchups! This will make you HAVE to learn all 3 matchups. Finally! ... Why? I DESPISE PvP. Why shouldn't I get to play TvP if I want to? PvR PvZ PvT TvP is what I would set it to, and I don't get why I wouldn't be allowed to do that - it's a game, shouldn't fun come first?
Players should NOT be allowed to racepick on the ladder.
Player A: ZvZ TvT PvP
Player B: ZvP PvT TvZ
How are you going to determine which of these two are better than each other? What if the "proleague ladder" has a finals, and Player A has to play Player B?
The objective of a ladder is to see a representation of how good you are. It is a competition. Whether or not you find this fun is up to you. If Blizzard starts taking fun as a priority over competition on ranked ladder games then the ladder will not be where the best players play and it will not truely be a ladder.
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On August 22 2009 21:15 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2009 15:20 keV. wrote:
I'd love to hear all these people saying "its a terrible stupid decision by blizzard" to actually come up with something more fair and a way to determine someones true skill. I especially love the "What if I want to learn another race argument," when get this: YOU HAVE 3 SEPARATE RECORDS.
(If you think you have a better solution you don't) If you have a different rating for each race then that's fine, but they have not made any indication that this is the case. In addition, as I've said many many times, you can easily have every new account someone makes be TIED to their main account, meaning if your ELL matches you up with A rank players and you make a new account, your starting ELL for that account will be ... A rank.
I personally prefer a one name, one account system, but I'm ok with multi ID thing as well. As long as you can't completely whipe your stats like in WC3. The smurfing is a small part in my eyes. I'm much more excited about the stronger community (the reason I like one name) and possible anti-hack and anti-abuser/statwhore possibilities.
I think it is safe to assume that you will be able to view and match based on separate race stats. Some of that functionality exists already. If you can't then it IS a serious problem
Edit: Also, do people really think they are going to have one wins and losses record for five years as someone so eloquently put it? Why is it so impossible to assume that they will break online ladder play into seasons? WoW?
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Sweden33723 Posts
On August 22 2009 22:21 FortuneSyn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2009 20:56 FrozenArbiter wrote:On August 22 2009 20:20 Skyze wrote:
what do you mean you cant race pick in wc3 ladder??
You pick whatever race you want to play, simple as that.
The thing I think you mean, is you dont pick what race you play AGAINST.. which is friggin retarded if you do anyways, I cant STAND those guys who play like ZvT, ZvP and TvZ... If you cant play one matchup for your race, you just cant play your race.. Learn all 3 matchups! This will make you HAVE to learn all 3 matchups. Finally! ... Why? I DESPISE PvP. Why shouldn't I get to play TvP if I want to? PvR PvZ PvT TvP is what I would set it to, and I don't get why I wouldn't be allowed to do that - it's a game, shouldn't fun come first? Players should NOT be allowed to racepick on the ladder. Player A: ZvZ TvT PvP Player B: ZvP PvT TvZ How are you going to determine which of these two are better than each other? What if the "proleague ladder" has a finals, and Player A has to play Player B? The objective of a ladder is to see a representation of how good you are. It is a competition. Whether or not you find this fun is up to you. If Blizzard starts taking fun as a priority over competition on ranked ladder games then the ladder will not be where the best players play and it will not truely be a ladder.
You have to pick a race to play vs Random.
If that situation, it's treated as playing vs random.
Oh and you are actually allowed to race pick in SC and WC3, and people do (see: Ret - TvZ, ZvT ZvP).
On August 22 2009 22:24 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2009 21:15 FrozenArbiter wrote:On August 22 2009 15:20 keV. wrote:
I'd love to hear all these people saying "its a terrible stupid decision by blizzard" to actually come up with something more fair and a way to determine someones true skill. I especially love the "What if I want to learn another race argument," when get this: YOU HAVE 3 SEPARATE RECORDS.
(If you think you have a better solution you don't) If you have a different rating for each race then that's fine, but they have not made any indication that this is the case. In addition, as I've said many many times, you can easily have every new account someone makes be TIED to their main account, meaning if your ELL matches you up with A rank players and you make a new account, your starting ELL for that account will be ... A rank. I personally prefer a one name, one account system, but I'm ok with multi ID thing as well. As long as you can't completely whipe your stats like in WC3. The smurfing is a small part in my eyes. I'm much more excited about the stronger community (the reason I one name) and possible anti-hack and anti-abuser/statwhore possibilities. I think it is safe to assume that you will be able to view and match based on separate race stats. Some of that functionality exists already. If you can't then it IS a serious problem.
Hm, I don't mean viewing stats per race, I mean having a seperate Expected Ladder Level for each race (ie the thing they use to determine who you are matched up with).
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On August 22 2009 22:28 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2009 22:21 FortuneSyn wrote:On August 22 2009 20:56 FrozenArbiter wrote:On August 22 2009 20:20 Skyze wrote:
what do you mean you cant race pick in wc3 ladder??
You pick whatever race you want to play, simple as that.
The thing I think you mean, is you dont pick what race you play AGAINST.. which is friggin retarded if you do anyways, I cant STAND those guys who play like ZvT, ZvP and TvZ... If you cant play one matchup for your race, you just cant play your race.. Learn all 3 matchups! This will make you HAVE to learn all 3 matchups. Finally! ... Why? I DESPISE PvP. Why shouldn't I get to play TvP if I want to? PvR PvZ PvT TvP is what I would set it to, and I don't get why I wouldn't be allowed to do that - it's a game, shouldn't fun come first? Players should NOT be allowed to racepick on the ladder. Player A: ZvZ TvT PvP Player B: ZvP PvT TvZ How are you going to determine which of these two are better than each other? What if the "proleague ladder" has a finals, and Player A has to play Player B? The objective of a ladder is to see a representation of how good you are. It is a competition. Whether or not you find this fun is up to you. If Blizzard starts taking fun as a priority over competition on ranked ladder games then the ladder will not be where the best players play and it will not truely be a ladder. You have to pick a race to play vs Random. If that situation, it's treated as playing vs random. Show nested quote +On August 22 2009 22:24 keV. wrote:On August 22 2009 21:15 FrozenArbiter wrote:On August 22 2009 15:20 keV. wrote:
I'd love to hear all these people saying "its a terrible stupid decision by blizzard" to actually come up with something more fair and a way to determine someones true skill. I especially love the "What if I want to learn another race argument," when get this: YOU HAVE 3 SEPARATE RECORDS.
(If you think you have a better solution you don't) If you have a different rating for each race then that's fine, but they have not made any indication that this is the case. In addition, as I've said many many times, you can easily have every new account someone makes be TIED to their main account, meaning if your ELL matches you up with A rank players and you make a new account, your starting ELL for that account will be ... A rank. I personally prefer a one name, one account system, but I'm ok with multi ID thing as well. As long as you can't completely whipe your stats like in WC3. The smurfing is a small part in my eyes. I'm much more excited about the stronger community (the reason I one name) and possible anti-hack and anti-abuser/statwhore possibilities. I think it is safe to assume that you will be able to view and match based on separate race stats. Some of that functionality exists already. If you can't then it IS a serious problem. Hm, I don't mean viewing stats per race, I mean having a seperate Expected Ladder Level for each race (ie the thing they use to determine who you are matched up with).
I said view and match.
Edit: Throwing this point in here..
The reason blizzards ladders are not taken seriously is because the stats are inflated or meaningless. An online ladder that was accurate would much likely be taken alot more seriously then the people who think its a training ground are giving it credit for. The only reason WC3 is a joke is because of all the abuse and smurfing going on. A ladder is a ranking system, it is designed to find the best player of their respective races, in any other ladder, you would not be able to pick you opponent. If you truly despise certain matchups, then the ladder is not where you should be playing, even if that were the case with SC1.
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Sweden33723 Posts
Ohhhhhh I thought you said WATCH haha, sorry about that.
Edit: Throwing this point in here..
The reason blizzards ladders are not taken seriously is because the stats are inflated or meaningless. An online ladder that was accurate would much likely be taken alot more seriously then the people who think its a training ground are giving it credit for. The only reason WC3 is a joke is because of all the abuse and smurfing going on. A ladder is a ranking system, it is designed to find the best player of their respective races, in any other ladder, you would not be able to pick you opponent. If you truly despise certain matchups, then the ladder is not where you should be playing, even if that were the case with SC1
You have to explain to me how race picking (ie playing PvZ PvT TvP PvR or some such combination) is ANY different from a competitive standpoint than playing PvZ PvT PvP PvR.
Plz.
I played TvP for years, I only stopped because I was annoyed at people last second switching race, and because my P was getting better overall.
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ridiculous... Noobs just trying to not get raped cuz they're hurt their ego. How do noobs ever plan on getting better if they keep executing the same horrible strategy against horrible players and working? They need to stop complaining about getting stomped, EVERYONE decent player has been through that. Either change your game to Warcraft3, or get better. Period.
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On August 22 2009 22:37 YPang wrote:
ridiculous... Noobs just trying to not get raped cuz they're hurt their ego. How do noobs ever plan on getting better if they keep executing the same horrible strategy against horrible players and working? They need to stop complaining about getting stomped, EVERYONE decent player has been through that. Either change your game to Warcraft3, or get better. Period.
Every decent player have gone through getting stomped because previous ladder systems fail at stopping smurfs, NOT because you can only be good by being smurf stomped.
A gentle learning curve increases the games popularity. This creates more competition, more tournament earnings, more sponsorships, etc. Do you want this? If you really cannot see why then let me know and I will type it out for you on this thread.
As for your retarded comment on changing games, it is you that needs to change games because right now you are the one whining.
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On August 22 2009 22:37 YPang wrote:
ridiculous... Noobs just trying to not get raped cuz they're hurt their ego. How do noobs ever plan on getting better if they keep executing the same horrible strategy against horrible players and working? They need to stop complaining about getting stomped, EVERYONE decent player has been through that. Either change your game to Warcraft3, or get better. Period.
This may come as a shock, but the majority of players are not TL.net members, they want to play fun, not to improve. These players will make up the majority of the ladder. It's ridiculous how ignorant some people posting are.
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On August 22 2009 22:35 FrozenArbiter wrote:Ohhhhhh I thought you said WATCH haha, sorry about that. Show nested quote +Edit: Throwing this point in here..
The reason blizzards ladders are not taken seriously is because the stats are inflated or meaningless. An online ladder that was accurate would much likely be taken alot more seriously then the people who think its a training ground are giving it credit for. The only reason WC3 is a joke is because of all the abuse and smurfing going on. A ladder is a ranking system, it is designed to find the best player of their respective races, in any other ladder, you would not be able to pick you opponent. If you truly despise certain matchups, then the ladder is not where you should be playing, even if that were the case with SC1 You have to explain to me how race picking (ie playing PvZ PvT TvP PvR or some such combination) is ANY different from a competitive standpoint than playing PvZ PvT PvP PvR. Plz. I played TvP for years, I only stopped because I was annoyed at people last second switching race, and because my P was getting better overall.
How blizzard designs their ladder is their own prerogative, they may very well choose to design it with only w/l in check and can forget about race. I still think they will do it by race, but I could be wrong. I happen to agree about race counter picking being fine. I'm mainly making the point that whipable stats make for a shitty ladder.
The only thing you would have to watch out for is someone with a 50-1 TvZ record and no other match-ups. As long as they can find some means to weigh record value, a counter picking system is fine with me.
Edit: To those at blizzcon, you should totally punch that nerd in the face waiting to make a ret paladin joke and ask this question.
Will there be a WC3 style ladder based on race? Or will counter picking or specializing in certain matchups be allowed on the official ladder?
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I guess the ladder is going to be like the one in WC3. I ofcourse want to be able to have different names with different levels to play with. I dont want to learn a new race at a high level and screw up my level while having no chance of winning the game. This feature is stupid, very stupid and if this doesn't change I'm not sure if I'll buy the game.
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Sweden33723 Posts
On August 22 2009 22:52 keV. wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2009 22:35 FrozenArbiter wrote:Ohhhhhh I thought you said WATCH haha, sorry about that. Edit: Throwing this point in here..
The reason blizzards ladders are not taken seriously is because the stats are inflated or meaningless. An online ladder that was accurate would much likely be taken alot more seriously then the people who think its a training ground are giving it credit for. The only reason WC3 is a joke is because of all the abuse and smurfing going on. A ladder is a ranking system, it is designed to find the best player of their respective races, in any other ladder, you would not be able to pick you opponent. If you truly despise certain matchups, then the ladder is not where you should be playing, even if that were the case with SC1 You have to explain to me how race picking (ie playing PvZ PvT TvP PvR or some such combination) is ANY different from a competitive standpoint than playing PvZ PvT PvP PvR. Plz. I played TvP for years, I only stopped because I was annoyed at people last second switching race, and because my P was getting better overall. How blizzard designs their ladder is their own prerogative, they may very well choose to design it with only w/l in check and can forget about race. I still think they will do it by race, but I could be wrong. I happen to agree about race counter picking being fine. I'm mainly making the point that whipable stats make for a shitty ladder. The only thing you would have to watch out for is someone with a 50-1 TvZ record and no other match-ups. As long as they can find some means to weigh record value, a counter picking system is fine with me.
Ah but I don't think you should be able to pick what your OPPONENTS race is. What I mean is, I can pick the race *I* want for each matchup, but I don't get to choose which of my desired matchups I get.
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On August 22 2009 22:44 PokePill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2009 22:37 YPang wrote:
ridiculous... Noobs just trying to not get raped cuz they're hurt their ego. How do noobs ever plan on getting better if they keep executing the same horrible strategy against horrible players and working? They need to stop complaining about getting stomped, EVERYONE decent player has been through that. Either change your game to Warcraft3, or get better. Period. This may come as a shock, but the majority of players are not TL.net members, they want to play fun, not to improve. These players will make up the majority of the ladder. It's ridiculous how ignorant some people posting are.
If the vast majority are casual players then the chances of getting matched up with a good player who reset his stats is greatly diminished to the point where it's stupid to design a ladder around adding such huge limitations in order to eliminate that already small chance
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On August 22 2009 21:36 PobTheCad wrote:
this game is a joke , blizzard is a shadow of a company they were 10 years ago
fully agree with you, their success with wow corrupted them
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Neat. Another one of their amazing new b.net 2.0 features we will all love! Oh wait, Blizzard: we're not the ones that love you making money; you are.
Without smurfing, there is no way to get rid of harassment without a serious blow to the online experience. Ignore? Good luck typing it every 5 seconds. Receive messages from only friends? Good luck making new friends without meeting them outside b.net. So we HAVE to use your servers to play on our single account, on which we have all our matchups and every new strategy we are trying to learn tied to a single rating? Why don't you just charge us a buck every time we want to add someone to our friends list, or a nickel for every time we send a whisper? It adds about as much to the game for the players as this does, and you might actually make 3% what you make off of wow with sc2 by implementing it!
MBS, automine, cheesy mechanics, no lan, no chat channels, and now 1 account, all for the low, low price of $150? After playing SC for 11 years, I'm starting to wonder what I could better spend my money on. Unlike an MMORPG, making loads of money off an RTS and an RTS being very good are in fact mutually exclusive. Well...technically they're not, since you're losing more customers with every decision you make. I can't wait for their next announcement. Why don't you make our single account permanently stuck on the race we use for our first game! Better yet, force us to have our real name and contact info in our profile so people can harass us in real life!
I may very well end up a fan of professional SC2, but not a player. In the past I bought Blizzard games I never even played (Diablo series) and ones I knew I'd never play online (WC3), just to support Blizzard. With SC2, I'll be anxiously awaiting cracks so I can play, even on lan, without giving them a dime.
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On August 22 2009 22:54 FrozenArbiter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2009 22:52 keV. wrote:On August 22 2009 22:35 FrozenArbiter wrote:Ohhhhhh I thought you said WATCH haha, sorry about that. Edit: Throwing this point in here..
The reason blizzards ladders are not taken seriously is because the stats are inflated or meaningless. An online ladder that was accurate would much likely be taken alot more seriously then the people who think its a training ground are giving it credit for. The only reason WC3 is a joke is because of all the abuse and smurfing going on. A ladder is a ranking system, it is designed to find the best player of their respective races, in any other ladder, you would not be able to pick you opponent. If you truly despise certain matchups, then the ladder is not where you should be playing, even if that were the case with SC1 You have to explain to me how race picking (ie playing PvZ PvT TvP PvR or some such combination) is ANY different from a competitive standpoint than playing PvZ PvT PvP PvR. Plz. I played TvP for years, I only stopped because I was annoyed at people last second switching race, and because my P was getting better overall. How blizzard designs their ladder is their own prerogative, they may very well choose to design it with only w/l in check and can forget about race. I still think they will do it by race, but I could be wrong. I happen to agree about race counter picking being fine. I'm mainly making the point that whipable stats make for a shitty ladder. The only thing you would have to watch out for is someone with a 50-1 TvZ record and no other match-ups. As long as they can find some means to weigh record value, a counter picking system is fine with me. Ah but I don't think you should be able to pick what your OPPONENTS race is. What I mean is, I can pick the race *I* want for each matchup, but I don't get to choose which of my desired matchups I get.
This is more or less what I meant, but its early. I think it would be fine if pre-matchmaking you set something: as an example, like a protoss player who hates PvZ:
if(opponent == zerg)
myRace = Terran;
I think thats fine.
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EPT
