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I figured I'd squeeze this in the HOTS forum before it closed down. It isn't really a great thread, just hoping someone with a better understanding of TvZ will clear things up for me.
Even though I play Protoss, for a long time TvZ was easily my favorite matchup to watch (if you haven't seen Puma vs Idra on Tal Darim Altar from IEM Guangzhou, then you've missed the best game I've ever seen), at least in WOL.
Lately, it seems Terrans are favoring Marine/Marauder builds in HOTS though, which makes the matchup decidedly more boring to watch for me. This seems to be due to the effectiveness of Widow Mines at killing Banelings, the prevalence of Roach builds (possibly because Zergling/Bane isn't as effective with Widows Mine on the field) which means people are pumping out Marauders, and the effectiveness of Blinding Cloud at nullifying Tanks.
Is the Tank really dead in TvZ or am I being dumb and this is just a trend? It just seems like the Widow Mine is better used in conjunction with Bio than Mech, and the Vipers effectiveness vs Tanks make Bio a better choice.
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Widow mines just have really good synergy with bio, and seem to be filling up the role that tanks used to play. As T, you want to run your marines away from banelings and past your tanks, so that the Z ground army takes a lot of hits coming in and your heavy mech units soak all the baneling hits. Widow mines do the same thing as tanks essentially, plus they're burrowed so they don't get completely destroyed every time you run bio away from under them.
On the other hand, mech is much more attractive for T given hellion buffs and free siege mode, along with a better way to transition to air because of the combined armor upgrade in the armory. My prediction is that we will see a heavy mech/air style that can include lots of ravens into the more traditional mech/viking play. Widow mines also protect tanks really well, so if a T can get vikings up by the time Z gets vipers out, vipers won't be able to pick apart big mech armies.
In short, I don't think vipers will kill T mech, or even bio/tank. Vipers are essentially the same thing as broodlord from T perspective - you need to get out some air quick before the Z can pull your traditional ground army apart with them. But only time will really tell here.
Just my two cents!
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
Your army has to be mobile in tvz nowadays because vipers can cast binding cloud.
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I think the Viper is too strong for the tank to exist.
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The only thing I can say with absolute certainty regarding the tank in HotS, is that it still works exceptionally well against lair-based armies. Mines can be unreliable with their splash, whereas tanks cover more ground and can target approaching infestors and specific baneclumps. The only problem that could arise from building tanks during the midgame are Zergs going to hive immediately upon scouting Mech, then hitting with roach / viper (if you scout a hive that early with roaches, you could just get vikings =/).
Once hive tech hits, it's really easy for Zergs to screw with tanks in horrible, horrible ways. You're better off diverting the gas being used to build tanks towards air upgrades and Ravens, which are awesome.
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I don't feel you can play against roach hydra without tanks.
Vipers are tough to deal with, but instead of not using tanks, I had succes just adding MORE tanks and spreading them more.
Vipers are quite weak hp wise, and they lose them easily if they go in too deep to blind the back tanks.
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No terrans wont' be dead at all especially when going mech.
Tank usage won't be used as much late game (like it was in WoL to). Tanks are very strong early/mid game but aren't as strong late game, it was the same in wol once it hit late game terrans normally stopped making tanks just cause they want a more mobile 3/3 mmm rather then mm tank which isn't as mobile especially in the late game.
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On March 13 2013 14:46 Emzeeshady wrote:
Once Vipers and Widow Mines get nerfed the tank will be used once again. In the meantime I say good riddance, I never liked turtling.
Why is there a need to nerf vipers or widow mines?
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On March 13 2013 14:57 blade55555 wrote:
No terrans wont' be dead at all especially when going mech.
Tank usage won't be used as much late game (like it was in WoL to). Tanks are very strong early/mid game but aren't as strong late game, it was the same in wol once it hit late game terrans normally stopped making tanks just cause they want a more mobile 3/3 mmm rather then mm tank which isn't as mobile especially in the late game.
No one said that Terrans will be dead. If anything I think overall Terran is in a better position vs Zerg in HOTS than WOL. This isn't about the strength of Terran, it is about the viability of the Tank, which is a fun unit to watch.
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On March 13 2013 14:59 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 14:57 blade55555 wrote:
No terrans wont' be dead at all especially when going mech.
Tank usage won't be used as much late game (like it was in WoL to). Tanks are very strong early/mid game but aren't as strong late game, it was the same in wol once it hit late game terrans normally stopped making tanks just cause they want a more mobile 3/3 mmm rather then mm tank which isn't as mobile especially in the late game. No one said that Terrans will be dead.
He meant to say tanks, methinks
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On March 13 2013 14:59 BronzeKnee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 14:57 blade55555 wrote:
No terrans wont' be dead at all especially when going mech.
Tank usage won't be used as much late game (like it was in WoL to). Tanks are very strong early/mid game but aren't as strong late game, it was the same in wol once it hit late game terrans normally stopped making tanks just cause they want a more mobile 3/3 mmm rather then mm tank which isn't as mobile especially in the late game. No one said that Terrans will be dead. If anything I think overall Terran is in a better position vs Zerg in HOTS than WOL. This isn't about the strength of Terran, it is about the viability of the Tank, which is a fun unit to watch.
I meant to say tanks my bad xD.
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EPT
