EPTBeta Balance Update #11 (Jan 9, 2013) - Page 2
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Mr. Black
United States470 Posts
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larse
1611 Posts
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Elwar
953 Posts
Holy shit I'm so interested to see how these massive terran buffs (on balance) pan out. The toss changes are straight nerfs IMO. | ||
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DKR
United Kingdom622 Posts
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Tamburlaine
Canada288 Posts
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
Reapers are more accessible than ever, but does that matter if they're completely freaking useless? What could you possibly want them for now? They can't fight Marines or pick favourable engagements against them thanks to sight-up-cliffs, they've been castrated at worker sniping. What is the point in getting one? Why would you want to? Interested about how the MsC/Oracle changes will play out. | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
On January 10 2013 07:19 Noocta wrote: I thought the +25 energy wasn't here anymore when they added increase healing. :o It reduces energy cost of healing from 5 per tick per heal to 1. The rate of healing (without the upgrade) is 3 per 1 energy. Now it only costs 0.6 energy to heal 3 health. In game seconds (with the upgrade), Medivac heals 9 health and it only costs 1.8 energy per in game second. Before it was 9 health / 3 energy cost per second. So you're looking at a 40% reduction cost in energy for Medivac healing with the upgrade. Mothership The Vortex ability has been removed from the game. Mothership Core The Envision ability has been moved to Oracle. Oracle The Time Warp ability has been moved to the Mothership Core and the Mothership. I don't mind Envison (technically Preordain/Revelation used to grant detection anyway) change. Now Protoss won't always have detection and can go Stargate for detection instead. On the downside, Twilight won't have any mobile detection methods (in contrast to both Zerg and Terran which both have Overseers [Just from lair] and Scan [just from Orbital Command]). As for Vortex removal. I still disagree with removing Vortex. DB said this before but Vortex was like Fungal or EMP on a group of HT in the sense that it was a game changing spell like those. The only problem with Vortex late game is in WoL, the late game exclusively relied on Vortex ZvP while in other matchups, things like Ghost and/or (even) Infestors weren't relied on. Additional, NP itself was a strong counter to Vortex (a recent game is Jangbi vs Soulkey). IMO, I think they should have kept Vortex: 1. In HotS, Vortex isn't even a problem anymore due to ZvP not even relying on BL + Infestor. Not only that, Tempest itself is a strong replacement for the MS (making the Protoss player going full MS vs getting that one extra Tempest or two a bit questionable at times). 2. Vortex required a ton of setup (archons) and can be avoided via splitting of enemy's army. 3. There are alternatives to just removing Vortex. Rather than remove Vortex, I think they should add a 3 second cast delay time (Mothership casts it, an animation occurs that works similar to nuke, then Vortex takes effect). This would make Vortex much less viable but still in the game. I am against removing *epic things that have worked in the game in the past. It keeps the game varied and if it's too "cheesy", then you can tone it down. *TBH, I'm honestly a sucker for Vortex's animation and the spell in general. It just looked cool and it did something cool. Cool stuff (if it works) should be in the game. Instead of removing them, they should keep it in and give it a casting delay or something. Even Dustin Browder said (before he changed his mind) that they felt Vortex was at a fine place because it's comparable to game changing EMPs or game changing Fungals. Not to make yet another Icefrog comparison - Icefrog does his best to try to keep everything in the game and please people who like those things. No one really complains about it. Techies is a great example (he recently even had a buff). There have been few exceptions like the Gambler (only because he was not only a hugely luck based hero, even more so than Ogre Magi's Multicast, but all his spells were actually kind of boring. His ultimate was simply a nuke that deals damage based on a random amount of gold you have for example) and maybe the old Raider (the one which used to have backstab, a charge of darkness like ability, Batrider's Ultimate, etc). Speaking of that, in terms of skills that were removed, they were eventually added to other heroes (the old Raider is a good example: Backstab to Riki, his Charge to Spirit Breaker, and his net ability to Batrider). Anyway, the point is that Vortex is one of those few cool spells to pull off and its "game changing ability" was largely overstated and exaggerated by people IMO (especially when other spells like fungal, emp, etc are just as game changing, even one EMP or Fungal can turn the tide easily and those are harder to prepare for at times). It's a problem in WoL not because of the spell but because Protoss had to rely on the spell to win or do anything and Zerg had to rely on the spell not going off to win or do anything. The problem was there were no alternative options to Vortex. HotS fixes this greatly and Zerg doesn't even rely on BL anymore for end game in PvZ. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 10 2013 07:22 larse wrote: It seems like they just want to make Hellbat a more standard unit that is decent against most things. Like Roach, A Terran Roach. That can only attack in melee range, and does pretty good DPS to everything. 18 damage is no joke, though its fire rate is a bit lacking. | ||
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
On January 10 2013 07:22 Mr. Black wrote: Reapers can now be reactored out to replace rines in late game...interesting. The thing is though, for that low dmg, will it be even worth it? Seems like a strange patch, while it will save a lot of terrans from insanely silly losses, there is a good reason why you want siege mode as a research. Also raven... pretty sure it's going to be way to strong, but the lowered energy is a step in the right direction anyway, probably lowered dmg needed too though. | ||
Heyoka
Katowice25012 Posts
Guess we'll see how it goes! | ||
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Glurkenspurk
United States1915 Posts
I almost feel like if you don't proxy reaper you're stupid. | ||
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Cook
France130 Posts
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KamikazeDurrrp
United States95 Posts
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Everlong
Czech Republic1973 Posts
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DifuntO
Greece2376 Posts
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Tomasy
Poland80 Posts
Reaper does 4+4 vs light or just 4? if it is 4 so then they might aswell remove them from the game. They buff hellbat a-move mech unit instead of positional mech that requires focus fire, Seeker missle should be like this since release nerfing anti micro spells like timewarp and fungal is always good idea. Overall disappointed | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
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Prog455
Denmark970 Posts
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Qikz
United Kingdom12042 Posts
The problem is stargate openings vs mech in the early game and ground protoss as well as sky toss in the late game. Siege mode quicker doesn't really change any of that :S I'm really confused by this. | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
What the? This no siege mode upgrade makes zero sense. That's not the problem with mech vs P blizzard. Nor does it do anything, just like removing HSM research literally did nothing for the raven, all it did is reduce a 1 time resource cost, it changes nothing involved with the rest of the unit interactions. The only thing it will do is make more ridiculous all-ins, even in TvT...and doesn't do jack shiot for TvP... I don't even know what else to say...reaper speed removed? 1 step forward, 2 steps back as usual. Medivac healing rate upgrade removed? What the hell? That was awesome...a good change. Now removed? Why? It was perfect for lategame vs the mass AOE from protoss when going bio, and helped in TvZ vs the new threats... Ridiculous. Raven change...about time...but ironically they had HSM at 100 energy cost "unintentionally" at the beginning of beta and it worked out pretty well. What is going on... | ||
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