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Beta Balance Update #11 (Jan 9, 2013) - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 HotS
1054 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 51 52 53 Next
Mr. Black
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States470 Posts
January 09 2013 22:22 GMT
#21
Reapers can now be reactored out to replace rines in late game...interesting.
Make more anything.
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
January 09 2013 22:22 GMT
#22
It seems like they just want to make Hellbat a more standard unit that is decent against most things. Like Roach, A Terran Roach.
Elwar
Profile Joined August 2010
953 Posts
January 09 2013 22:22 GMT
#23
Uhh...proxy reaper every game, lol?

Holy shit I'm so interested to see how these massive terran buffs (on balance) pan out. The toss changes are straight nerfs IMO.
DKR
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom622 Posts
January 09 2013 22:23 GMT
#24
Wow, Terran getting some pretty needed buffs, might be a step too far though :/ Would have thought buffing tank damage would be more important than siege mode.
"1 base. Cheese man." - MKP. "[MVP] is not stylistic, his style is winning, which is the style you want to have." - Artosis
Tamburlaine
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada288 Posts
January 09 2013 22:23 GMT
#25
I am confused by almost every single thing in this patch.
I like things.
pure.Wasted
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada4701 Posts
January 09 2013 22:23 GMT
#26
Wow, the only buff T had to really look forward to in the late game just got straight up cut.

Reapers are more accessible than ever, but does that matter if they're completely freaking useless? What could you possibly want them for now? They can't fight Marines or pick favourable engagements against them thanks to sight-up-cliffs, they've been castrated at worker sniping. What is the point in getting one? Why would you want to?

Interested about how the MsC/Oracle changes will play out.

INna Maru-da-FanTa, Bbaby, TY Dream that I'm Flashing you
Goldfish
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-09 22:57:16
January 09 2013 22:24 GMT
#27
On January 10 2013 07:19 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 10 2013 07:18 NewDawn wrote:
On January 10 2013 07:16 Noocta wrote:
Well, you can reactor reapers now.. but they suck balls anyway so why bother.

The tank buff is nice to deal with some all in in TvZ and will allow to not have some silly losses in TvT but beside that it does nothing.

Loving the seeker revert tho. 75 energy on old seeker missile is god like. So godlike I guess it will be nerfed.

Medivac upgrade doesn't increase healing, but what does it do then now ?

+25 Energy? :c
Tank buff will save me from those random games where I forget to upgrade siege.. but it does let you get out one extra tank because you saved money! :D


I thought the +25 energy wasn't here anymore when they added increase healing. :o


It reduces energy cost of healing from 5 per tick per heal to 1.

The rate of healing (without the upgrade) is 3 per 1 energy. Now it only costs 0.6 energy to heal 3 health.

In game seconds (with the upgrade), Medivac heals 9 health and it only costs 1.8 energy per in game second. Before it was 9 health / 3 energy cost per second.

So you're looking at a 40% reduction cost in energy for Medivac healing with the upgrade.


Mothership
The Vortex ability has been removed from the game.
Mothership Core
The Envision ability has been moved to Oracle.
Oracle
The Time Warp ability has been moved to the Mothership Core and the Mothership.


I don't mind Envison (technically Preordain/Revelation used to grant detection anyway) change. Now Protoss won't always have detection and can go Stargate for detection instead.

On the downside, Twilight won't have any mobile detection methods (in contrast to both Zerg and Terran which both have Overseers [Just from lair] and Scan [just from Orbital Command]).

As for Vortex removal. I still disagree with removing Vortex.

DB said this before but Vortex was like Fungal or EMP on a group of HT in the sense that it was a game changing spell like those.

The only problem with Vortex late game is in WoL, the late game exclusively relied on Vortex ZvP while in other matchups, things like Ghost and/or (even) Infestors weren't relied on.

Additional, NP itself was a strong counter to Vortex (a recent game is Jangbi vs Soulkey).

IMO, I think they should have kept Vortex:

1. In HotS, Vortex isn't even a problem anymore due to ZvP not even relying on BL + Infestor. Not only that, Tempest itself is a strong replacement for the MS (making the Protoss player going full MS vs getting that one extra Tempest or two a bit questionable at times).

2. Vortex required a ton of setup (archons) and can be avoided via splitting of enemy's army.

3. There are alternatives to just removing Vortex.

Rather than remove Vortex, I think they should add a 3 second cast delay time (Mothership casts it, an animation occurs that works similar to nuke, then Vortex takes effect).

This would make Vortex much less viable but still in the game.

I am against removing *epic things that have worked in the game in the past. It keeps the game varied and if it's too "cheesy", then you can tone it down.

*TBH, I'm honestly a sucker for Vortex's animation and the spell in general. It just looked cool and it did something cool. Cool stuff (if it works) should be in the game. Instead of removing them, they should keep it in and give it a casting delay or something.

Even Dustin Browder said (before he changed his mind) that they felt Vortex was at a fine place because it's comparable to game changing EMPs or game changing Fungals.

Not to make yet another Icefrog comparison - Icefrog does his best to try to keep everything in the game and please people who like those things. No one really complains about it. Techies is a great example (he recently even had a buff).

There have been few exceptions like the Gambler (only because he was not only a hugely luck based hero, even more so than Ogre Magi's Multicast, but all his spells were actually kind of boring. His ultimate was simply a nuke that deals damage based on a random amount of gold you have for example) and maybe the old Raider (the one which used to have backstab, a charge of darkness like ability, Batrider's Ultimate, etc).

Speaking of that, in terms of skills that were removed, they were eventually added to other heroes (the old Raider is a good example: Backstab to Riki, his Charge to Spirit Breaker, and his net ability to Batrider).

Anyway, the point is that Vortex is one of those few cool spells to pull off and its "game changing ability" was largely overstated and exaggerated by people IMO (especially when other spells like fungal, emp, etc are just as game changing, even one EMP or Fungal can turn the tide easily and those are harder to prepare for at times).

It's a problem in WoL not because of the spell but because Protoss had to rely on the spell to win or do anything and Zerg had to rely on the spell not going off to win or do anything. The problem was there were no alternative options to Vortex. HotS fixes this greatly and Zerg doesn't even rely on BL anymore for end game in PvZ.
https://connect.microsoft.com/WindowsServerFeedback/feedback/details/741495/biggest-explorer-annoyance-automatic-sorting-windows-7-server-2008-r2-and-vista#details Allow Disable Auto Arrange in Windows 7+
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
January 09 2013 22:24 GMT
#28
On January 10 2013 07:22 larse wrote:
It seems like they just want to make Hellbat a more standard unit that is decent against most things. Like Roach, A Terran Roach.


That can only attack in melee range, and does pretty good DPS to everything. 18 damage is no joke, though its fire rate is a bit lacking.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
January 09 2013 22:26 GMT
#29
On January 10 2013 07:22 Mr. Black wrote:
Reapers can now be reactored out to replace rines in late game...interesting.

The thing is though, for that low dmg, will it be even worth it?

Seems like a strange patch, while it will save a lot of terrans from insanely silly losses, there is a good reason why you want siege mode as a research. Also raven... pretty sure it's going to be way to strong, but the lowered energy is a step in the right direction anyway, probably lowered dmg needed too though.
Heyoka
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Katowice25012 Posts
January 09 2013 22:28 GMT
#30
Some weird changes in this one.

Guess we'll see how it goes!
@RealHeyoka | ESL / DreamHack StarCraft Lead
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
January 09 2013 22:28 GMT
#31
Guarantee there will be a hotfix within the next 2-3 days.

I almost feel like if you don't proxy reaper you're stupid.
Cook
Profile Joined May 2011
France130 Posts
January 09 2013 22:29 GMT
#32
Some of those changes are quite unexpected...
KamikazeDurrrp
Profile Joined January 2012
United States95 Posts
January 09 2013 22:29 GMT
#33
Reapers now useless, Ravens now even more useless, Bio back to being terrible lategame, hellbat buff made terrible by reducing the splash radius to lower than half its original state, siegemode research removal completely missing the point of why mech doesn't work, fungal still kept at 10 range "justified" by doing 10 less damage, I don't even know what the use anymore. Good job blizzard, you just made a terrible situation worse.
Everlong
Profile Joined April 2010
Czech Republic1973 Posts
January 09 2013 22:29 GMT
#34
Wow, this is crazy, but well.. I don't know, what to say. I guess, I'm happy.. Maybe? lol..
DifuntO
Profile Joined November 2011
Greece2376 Posts
January 09 2013 22:31 GMT
#35
Holy Shit What Is This?!? O_O
All I do is Stim.
Tomasy
Profile Joined October 2010
Poland80 Posts
January 09 2013 22:32 GMT
#36
LOL@Siege tank buff that they were talking about.

Reaper does 4+4 vs light or just 4? if it is 4 so then they might aswell remove them from the game.
They buff hellbat a-move mech unit instead of positional mech that requires focus fire,
Seeker missle should be like this since release

nerfing anti micro spells like timewarp and fungal is always good idea.

Overall disappointed
Zenbrez
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada5973 Posts
January 09 2013 22:32 GMT
#37
Raven: can no longer one shot a stalker.
Refer to my post.
Prog455
Profile Joined April 2012
Denmark970 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-09 22:33:59
January 09 2013 22:32 GMT
#38
Why not just remove Reapers from the game once and for all? This patch is so disappointment
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
January 09 2013 22:32 GMT
#39
I don't see how making siege non upgrade is meant to help mech at all.

The problem is stargate openings vs mech in the early game and ground protoss as well as sky toss in the late game. Siege mode quicker doesn't really change any of that :S

I'm really confused by this.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
avilo
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
United States4100 Posts
January 09 2013 22:32 GMT
#40
What the hell? I will comment again more in depth in a bit...all I will say for now is...

What the? This no siege mode upgrade makes zero sense. That's not the problem with mech vs P blizzard. Nor does it do anything, just like removing HSM research literally did nothing for the raven, all it did is reduce a 1 time resource cost, it changes nothing involved with the rest of the unit interactions.

The only thing it will do is make more ridiculous all-ins, even in TvT...and doesn't do jack shiot for TvP...

I don't even know what else to say...reaper speed removed? 1 step forward, 2 steps back as usual. Medivac healing rate upgrade removed? What the hell? That was awesome...a good change. Now removed? Why? It was perfect for lategame vs the mass AOE from protoss when going bio, and helped in TvZ vs the new threats...

Ridiculous. Raven change...about time...but ironically they had HSM at 100 energy cost "unintentionally" at the beginning of beta and it worked out pretty well.

What is going on...
Sup
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