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On December 23 2012 01:39 PanzerElite wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 01:24 Dynamitekid wrote:
Is it me or are the new units in HOTS are really boring except the viper? The viper is so silly, have you seen today's gsl show matches? Silly in stupid design/animation. It's horrible to see thors/collosus/tanks/tempest/medivacs being pulled. It looks so silly i can't take hots serious anymore.
Sounds like you are QQ. Do you know what is silly? The medvac +5hp regen and boost upgrade. I think protoss got the short end of the stick in HOTS
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On December 23 2012 01:44 Dynamitekid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 01:39 PanzerElite wrote:On December 23 2012 01:24 Dynamitekid wrote:
Is it me or are the new units in HOTS are really boring except the viper? The viper is so silly, have you seen today's gsl show matches? Silly in stupid design/animation. It's horrible to see thors/collosus/tanks/tempest/medivacs being pulled. It looks so silly i can't take hots serious anymore. Sounds like you are QQ. Do you know what is silly? The medvac +5hp regen and boost upgrade. I think protoss got the short end of the stick in HOTS
stop whining over balance. Honestly the viper is stupid. That pull just looks so retarded, and I think people will get tired of it pretty quickly. It's another one of those microkillers, where the opponent can't do anything. He is just goanna lose unit x every single time. It may be balanced but its terrible design wise.
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On December 22 2012 21:56 rEalGuapo wrote:
As a Protoss I have to say it is fine with me.
Stargate will most likely become the new standard in HotS and Infestors even with 10 Range will suck against Tempest Carrier VR. Especially since with a projectile it is harder to fungal interceptors.
In ZvT however, this is a big problem.
And still, I see no Ghosts against Infestors. Snipe has 10 Range and is instant.
I think that if Terrans would approach it the way Protoss have to micro their Templar in lategame PvT they could succeed.
Setting up flanks of cloaked ghosts and darting in to EMP/Snipe.
I have never seen someone try that, since the Ghost nerf Terrans never built them again in TvZ, just because they like to cry OPOPOP
I really think there are a lot of options.
I would not get too upset about a video that shows fungal against someone who is unable to spread Vikings . . .
Oh and by the way:
This is a BETA!
Blizzard WILL test stuff that looks completely retarded just to see how it plays out.
They will keep doing that and after they collected all the data they feel necessary a new expansion will be made.
You guys act like the game will be whatever the last version of the Beta looks like.
That will not be the case, they might pick up concepts from the very beginning of the Beta. They might introduce something completely new.
You all should chill, stay constructive and have fun with the new toys..
Why test retarded stuff when you can test stuff makes logical sense. Like reworking immortals hardened shield to make mech viable. Reduce the food count of widow mines to make htem viable late game etc.
Testing stuff that doens't work theoretical will never work in a real game. That's why the oracle failed, the warhound failed, the collosus failed, the warpgate etc... ALl these units are bad designwise and people with a decent understanding of the game realizes that.
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On December 23 2012 02:25 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 21:56 rEalGuapo wrote:
As a Protoss I have to say it is fine with me.
Stargate will most likely become the new standard in HotS and Infestors even with 10 Range will suck against Tempest Carrier VR. Especially since with a projectile it is harder to fungal interceptors.
In ZvT however, this is a big problem.
And still, I see no Ghosts against Infestors. Snipe has 10 Range and is instant.
I think that if Terrans would approach it the way Protoss have to micro their Templar in lategame PvT they could succeed.
Setting up flanks of cloaked ghosts and darting in to EMP/Snipe.
I have never seen someone try that, since the Ghost nerf Terrans never built them again in TvZ, just because they like to cry OPOPOP
I really think there are a lot of options.
I would not get too upset about a video that shows fungal against someone who is unable to spread Vikings . . .
Oh and by the way:
This is a BETA!
Blizzard WILL test stuff that looks completely retarded just to see how it plays out.
They will keep doing that and after they collected all the data they feel necessary a new expansion will be made.
You guys act like the game will be whatever the last version of the Beta looks like.
That will not be the case, they might pick up concepts from the very beginning of the Beta. They might introduce something completely new.
You all should chill, stay constructive and have fun with the new toys..
Why test retarded stuff when you can test stuff makes logical sense. Like reworking immortals hardened shield to make mech viable. Reduce the food count of widow mines to make htem viable late game etc. Testing stuff that doens't work theoretical will never work in a real game. That's why the oracle failed, the warhound failed, the collosus failed, the warpgate etc... ALl these units are bad designwise and people with a decent understanding of the game realizes that.
Yep... If you think "testing retarded stuff" is a good way to develop something I don't know what to tell you. Take a scenario where unit X is regarded as really powerful. Would you further buff unit X to see if it makes the game better? Just because "it's beta, where we can test retarded stuff"? Of course that is a bit exaggerated, but you get the point. I'm not saying anything about the infestor re-buff in particular, but rather that it should be allowed to critizice changes even in a beta.
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WOW. So they actually had the nerve to buff fungal growth and make it 10 range. I mean this is just borderline retarded. Please Blizzard fire Browder and Kim and please put Rob Pardo back in charge of multiplayer. Please put Rob Pardo back, that man is a genius and Browder the Red Alert noob and his sidekick Robin, I mean Kim fire them.
They have ruined Starcraft and are destroying it even more. How the hell did we went from reavers and lurkers and science vessels and the original queen and defiler and all the good stuff to infestor blobs and banelings and free units?
Just please fire these infiltrators and have Rob Pardo take charge again.
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On December 23 2012 02:23 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 01:44 Dynamitekid wrote:On December 23 2012 01:39 PanzerElite wrote:On December 23 2012 01:24 Dynamitekid wrote:
Is it me or are the new units in HOTS are really boring except the viper? The viper is so silly, have you seen today's gsl show matches? Silly in stupid design/animation. It's horrible to see thors/collosus/tanks/tempest/medivacs being pulled. It looks so silly i can't take hots serious anymore. Sounds like you are QQ. Do you know what is silly? The medvac +5hp regen and boost upgrade. I think protoss got the short end of the stick in HOTS stop whining over balance. Honestly the viper is stupid. That pull just looks so retarded, and I think people will get tired of it pretty quickly. It's another one of those microkillers, where the opponent can't do anything. He is just goanna lose unit x every single time. It may be balanced but its terrible design wise. Oh look anther terran
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On December 23 2012 02:25 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 21:56 rEalGuapo wrote:
As a Protoss I have to say it is fine with me.
Stargate will most likely become the new standard in HotS and Infestors even with 10 Range will suck against Tempest Carrier VR. Especially since with a projectile it is harder to fungal interceptors.
In ZvT however, this is a big problem.
And still, I see no Ghosts against Infestors. Snipe has 10 Range and is instant.
I think that if Terrans would approach it the way Protoss have to micro their Templar in lategame PvT they could succeed.
Setting up flanks of cloaked ghosts and darting in to EMP/Snipe.
I have never seen someone try that, since the Ghost nerf Terrans never built them again in TvZ, just because they like to cry OPOPOP
I really think there are a lot of options.
I would not get too upset about a video that shows fungal against someone who is unable to spread Vikings . . .
Oh and by the way:
This is a BETA!
Blizzard WILL test stuff that looks completely retarded just to see how it plays out.
They will keep doing that and after they collected all the data they feel necessary a new expansion will be made.
You guys act like the game will be whatever the last version of the Beta looks like.
That will not be the case, they might pick up concepts from the very beginning of the Beta. They might introduce something completely new.
You all should chill, stay constructive and have fun with the new toys..
Why test retarded stuff when you can test stuff makes logical sense. Like reworking immortals hardened shield to make mech viable. Reduce the food count of widow mines to make htem viable late game etc. Testing stuff that doens't work theoretical will never work in a real game. That's why the oracle failed, the warhound failed, the collosus failed, the warpgate etc... ALl these units are bad designwise and people with a decent understanding of the game realizes that.
I agree, I think that the focus now should be purely on designing interesting units/features. There really is no point in tweaking numbers for balance right now, because when the game releases they're inevitably going to have to completely re-balance the game for the pro level as well, especially since tournaments use a completely different map pool.
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i think it would be better if they just increase the "fungal-missle speed" to 15 and keep the range at 8...or vice-versa increase the range but keep the missle speed at 10 and increase the range to 10.
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On December 23 2012 01:44 Dynamitekid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 01:39 PanzerElite wrote:On December 23 2012 01:24 Dynamitekid wrote:
Is it me or are the new units in HOTS are really boring except the viper? The viper is so silly, have you seen today's gsl show matches? Silly in stupid design/. It's horrible to see thors/collosus/tanks/tempest/medivacs being pulled. It looks so silly i can't take hots serious anymore. Sounds like you are QQ. Do you know what is silly? The medvac +5hp regen and boost upgrade. I think protoss got the short end of the stick in HOTS
Balance? What do you not understand by the animation looks silly?
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I think the animation looks cool. Problem Panzer?
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On December 23 2012 07:40 sagefreke wrote:
I think the animation looks cool. Problem Panzer?
Eh... I'd like it more if it had a spear-tip with a 'GET OVER HERE' voice...
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On December 23 2012 02:53 Zergofobic wrote:
WOW. So they actually had the nerve to buff fungal growth and make it 10 range. I mean this is just borderline retarded. Please Blizzard fire Browder and Kim and please put Rob Pardo back in charge of multiplayer. Please put Rob Pardo back, that man is a genius and Browder the Red Alert noob and his sidekick Robin, I mean Kim fire them.
They have ruined Starcraft and are destroying it even more. How the hell did we went from reavers and lurkers and science vessels and the original queen and defiler and all the good stuff to infestor blobs and banelings and free units?
Just please fire these infiltrators and have Rob Pardo take charge again.
I agree, Blizzard really should fire these two clowns before we end up with another Jay Wilson fiasco on our hands.
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On December 23 2012 11:34 Loccstana wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 02:53 Zergofobic wrote:
WOW. So they actually had the nerve to buff fungal growth and make it 10 range. I mean this is just borderline retarded. Please Blizzard fire Browder and Kim and please put Rob Pardo back in charge of multiplayer. Please put Rob Pardo back, that man is a genius and Browder the Red Alert noob and his sidekick Robin, I mean Kim fire them.
They have ruined Starcraft and are destroying it even more. How the hell did we went from reavers and lurkers and science vessels and the original queen and defiler and all the good stuff to infestor blobs and banelings and free units?
Just please fire these infiltrators and have Rob Pardo take charge again. I agree, Blizzard really should fire these two clowns before we end up with another Jay Wilson fiasco on our hands.
Sorry for my ignorance but what's it about Jay Wilson? I dont really follow D3.
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I still have no idea why they buffed Fungal, any explanations?
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On December 23 2012 02:53 Zergofobic wrote:
WOW. So they actually had the nerve to buff fungal growth and make it 10 range. I mean this is just borderline retarded. Please Blizzard fire Browder and Kim and please put Rob Pardo back in charge of multiplayer. Please put Rob Pardo back, that man is a genius and Browder the Red Alert noob and his sidekick Robin, I mean Kim fire them.
They have ruined Starcraft and are destroying it even more. How the hell did we went from reavers and lurkers and science vessels and the original queen and defiler and all the good stuff to infestor blobs and banelings and free units?
Just please fire these infiltrators and have Rob Pardo take charge again.
wow. all this anger over giving fungal 1 extra range.
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On December 23 2012 11:46 Havik_ wrote:
I still have no idea why they buffed Fungal, any explanations?
they buffed it back to balance how much of a nerf they made with the projectile
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On December 23 2012 11:46 Havik_ wrote:
I still have no idea why they buffed Fungal, any explanations?
They buffed it because they buffed terran bio and zergs couldn't handle that with infestor nerf.
They buffed terran bio because they buffed protoss anti-bio and don't want to touch mech.
Now in all likelihood they will need to give protoss an anti-infestor solution which will also end up working against ghosts and force yet another terran buff.
Said buff will then strongly affect zerg.
It's a never ending cycle.
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United States7483 Posts
On December 23 2012 12:16 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 11:46 Havik_ wrote:
I still have no idea why they buffed Fungal, any explanations? They buffed it because they buffed terran bio and zergs couldn't handle that with infestor nerf. They buffed terran bio because they buffed protoss anti-bio and don't want to touch mech. Now in all likelihood they will need to give protoss an anti-infestor solution which will also end up working against ghosts and force yet another terran buff. Said buff will then strongly affect zerg. It's a never ending cycle.
Actually no, that's not it at all. They re-buffed fungal because ZvZ was turning into a muta vs. muta fest, and nobody could figure out how to deal with it, since infestors no longer shut down mutalisks.
They should have given it more time for people to figure stuff out, I'm sure there was a way to use speed hydralisks with queens and spores to deal with mutalisks without infestors.
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On December 23 2012 12:22 Whitewing wrote:
Actually no, that's not it at all. They re-buffed fungal because ZvZ was turning into a muta vs. muta fest, and nobody could figure out how to deal with it, since infestors no longer shut down mutalisks.
And what was Blizzards response to TvT turning into reaper vs reaper?
'Let's wait and see'
Blizzard cares little for mirrors as they can see that non-mirrors are quickly turning into a mess.
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On December 23 2012 12:26 pmp10 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 12:22 Whitewing wrote:
Actually no, that's not it at all. They re-buffed fungal because ZvZ was turning into a muta vs. muta fest, and nobody could figure out how to deal with it, since infestors no longer shut down mutalisks.
And what was Blizzards response to TvT turning into reaper vs reaper? 'Let's wait and see' Blizzard cares little for mirrors as they can see that non-mirrors are quickly turning into a mess.
Blizzard's responses are never uniform, and why they make changes quickly sometimes and never other times seems incredibly irrational. To them, balancing and designing the game isn't a science where you listen to logic and reasoning and look at statistics. Instead, they haphazardly throws things together like the Warhound and Entomb and hope they work. But the community knew from the get-go that these were bad ideas, because we actually thought about them and used logic and reasoning. But instead of thinking about them, they wasted their own money and their time and ours testing them... It apparently doesn't bother them though, because once they realize their ideas are bad, they can copy and paste the exact same reasons (Entomb is a skilless ability, the Warhound is a factory Marauder) the community didn't like them before they were tested into their posts on why they need to be removed!
On December 23 2012 02:55 Dynamitekid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 02:23 Hider wrote:On December 23 2012 01:44 Dynamitekid wrote:On December 23 2012 01:39 PanzerElite wrote:On December 23 2012 01:24 Dynamitekid wrote:
Is it me or are the new units in HOTS are really boring except the viper? The viper is so silly, have you seen today's gsl show matches? Silly in stupid design/animation. It's horrible to see thors/collosus/tanks/tempest/medivacs being pulled. It looks so silly i can't take hots serious anymore. Sounds like you are QQ. Do you know what is silly? The medvac +5hp regen and boost upgrade. I think protoss got the short end of the stick in HOTS stop whining over balance. Honestly the viper is stupid. That pull just looks so retarded, and I think people will get tired of it pretty quickly. It's another one of those microkillers, where the opponent can't do anything. He is just goanna lose unit x every single time. It may be balanced but its terrible design wise. Oh look anther terran
Vipers with Abduct are another terrible "all or nothing unit." Either the unit completely changes the game or does nothing, much like Widow Mines, the Oracle, ect... These units are impossible to balance because they are either too strong or too weak, there is no in between due to how they are designed. Blizzard doesn't seem to know how to design units anymore, and what soft counters are.
The Viper has to go, or rather Abduct has to go.
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EPT
