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On December 22 2012 12:40 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 12:01 Jumonji wrote:As zerg we played with 3 range roaches , that was bad and we weren't as much complaining as everyone now. I'm sorry but that's revisionist history.
Zerg were the biggest complainers in all of WoL. Followed by Terran. But you know what, I agree with terran QQ in HoTs. What they're doing with the race is horrible. They're not fixing any of the problems in WoL. THey're just making bio even stronger, making mech weaker (indirectly though unit creation in other races) and leaving air the same. Bio isn't as fun as mech. Bio would be fun to watch in BW not in sc2.
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We need a +10 hp hydralisk buff.
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On December 22 2012 13:01 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 12:40 RavenLoud wrote:On December 22 2012 12:01 Jumonji wrote:As zerg we played with 3 range roaches , that was bad and we weren't as much complaining as everyone now. I'm sorry but that's revisionist history. Zerg were the biggest complainers in all of WoL. Followed by Terran. But you know what, I agree with terran QQ in HoTs. What they're doing with the race is horrible. They're not fixing any of the problems in WoL. THey're just making bio even stronger, making mech weaker (indirectly though unit creation in other races) and leaving air the same. Bio isn't as fun as mech. Bio would be fun to watch in BW not in sc2.
zerg complains were mostly in beta, terran complains were not as bad but on a much longer period from even the start of this year up till now, protoss also has been complaining for quite awhile but just on a more mild level compared to zerg early on than terran, in the end all races whine alot
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On December 22 2012 12:29 slipskentime wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 12:01 Jumonji wrote:
I don't get how the fact that fungal don't root solve any balance problem?
1) Your marines will still get easily splashed by baneling , rooted or not. If you already know how to split (before infestor get in range) that will not affect terran players, even a bit.
2) If we consider the BL + Infestor combo vs protoss, the stalkers will still be unable to blink with fungal and will get stuck by broodling and terran egg. Same problem. Maybe you'll flee more easily, getting the zerg waste mana on their infestor but you'll just let your base getting crush by broodling and infested terran instead of getting your army crushed, imho same shit.
If think the missile thing with around 10 movement speed and 9 range + Infested terran nerf is enough. Can't wait to see all these tl theorycrafter watch their answer to infestor imbalance get absolutely crushed by reality. Please blizzard remove root from infestor , and get it slows units, that will not change a thing, people will be so sad and maybe will stop complaining. As zerg we played with 3 range roaches , that was bad and we weren't as much complaining as everyone now.
I understand complaint about the fact that Void Ray doesn't fit in any role, same for phenix, battlecruiser and others air units but really it's annoying to see so many post against infestor written by the same people that want the tank to get more dmg (wut?!) and/or 13 range 130 splashdmg unavoidable seeker missile... sorry when i said fungal dont root, i meant it also doesnt stop blink either as to your points 1) alright, so you admit removing root on fungal does not nerf zerg at all against terran. GREAT. then lets get to it, remove the root on fungal, and then keep nerfing zerg until terran has a chance to win against an equal-skilled zerg opponent. Just to clarify, I actually TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY 100% agree with you. I do agree with you that ultimately removing the root on fungal isnt that "big" of a nerf as some people might think, but would you say that it is at least a start in the right direction??? 2) as i said above, i meant fungal also will no longer stop blink. so blink stalkers will be alot stronger against zerg. if this makes protoss too strong against zerg, then blizzard should buff ANYTHING other than fungal to fix the problem. blizzard can buff burrowed roaches or hydras or mutas or ultralisks to help with blink stalkers, ANYTHING other than fungal by the way, i said that root should be removed from fungal WITHOUT adding any kind of slow. I dont think fungal should slow OR root, the damage is good enough
Ok that make sense if fungal doesn't prevent blink anymore. As you said , the problem is that will make blink the best cast of the game by far. Your asnwer to my first point remind me something: everytime i win a teran, i'm supposed to be a lazy naab that play the easiest a+click race ans te. Problem is that i don't think like it: zerg have the easiest macro and terran is the harder race to master. That doesn't mean terran isn't good at all without masterizing it. Furthermore, maybe you'll agree with me but it's harder to play while defending multiple assault/harass. Unfortunately for terran it's harder to harass AND macro well and it's the only way to win against zerg. But think of that: if you struggle doing that, zerg will struggle defending that and macroing. In other words, both your macro and your micro will suffer, but same for zerg , this is the way to do. How many time i win against low master to mid master terran, being verbally harassed, while the terran didn't do a thing to counter me, not a single drop (in master duh!!), just a poor hellion suicide (platinum level) and single banshee harass (sad) . So of course if the zerg have only to think about his macro he will probably not struggle as much as you do.
By the way i see every terran saying that drop are bad and a waste of time: stop watching stefano guys he is insanely good. Perma double drop is really annoying, one banshee per base is hard to execute but the reward is far so great, etc...
You should also consider the zerg "a+click" : as terran you just see a swarm a+clicking on you army: consider that zerg have to split zergling in small group to not mass on single target, perma move and split baneling, micro and split infestor to not get instakilled by tank: this is not a simple a+click but a combination of short smart move even if as spectator it looks stupid as fuck 
I don't like the actual macro gaming it remind me the time where terran stopped doing PF for their third and fourth and then started complaining about zergling (lol) harass. Intense early micro lower both players macro so it can worth it guys 
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I bet TL.net would be better at balancing hots democratically than whoever's doing the balancing right now. Honestly, they should just release a version of HotS where you can customize everything and have the public do the balancing for them...
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Yeah like "antiga custom balance" (or something like that) : it was a good way to see if a balance was good or bad really quickly
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Reapers seem really op right now. Got 5 rax reapered as zerg. Lings dont even connect.
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On December 22 2012 15:25 Scrubwave wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 14:18 lorestarcraft wrote:
Reapers seem really op right now. Got 5 rax reapered as zerg. Lings dont even connect. What about more queens?
It doesn't seem to matter. Queens don't build fast enough.
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On December 22 2012 14:18 lorestarcraft wrote:
Reapers seem really op right now. Got 5 rax reapered as zerg. Lings dont even connect.
cmon, if they have time to build 5 raxes and all those reapers, you have adequate enough time to make queens, and roaches, and spines, anything, if you run your lings into reapers, of course they will die.
/facepalm
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On December 22 2012 13:01 Infernal_dream wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 12:40 RavenLoud wrote:On December 22 2012 12:01 Jumonji wrote:As zerg we played with 3 range roaches , that was bad and we weren't as much complaining as everyone now. I'm sorry but that's revisionist history. Zerg were the biggest complainers in all of WoL. Followed by Terran. But you know what, I agree with terran QQ in HoTs. What they're doing with the race is horrible. They're not fixing any of the problems in WoL. THey're just making bio even stronger, making mech weaker (indirectly though unit creation in other races) and leaving air the same. Bio isn't as fun as mech. Bio would be fun to watch in BW not in sc2.
Protoss is easily a bigger complainer than Terran in WOL. It's not even close.
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Please dont ban my post before reading.
Blizzard's new marketing strategy: release pre-alpha games to feed it's massive past-build fanbase then have them do all the hard work 3-4 years more, testing the game while they toy with units stats back and forth, selling some pre-alpha addons from time to time to keep the hopes high.Really my impression of sc2 after playing it ,luckily on a friend's account.
I played around 150 games, 1v1, 2v2, found nothing to complain, about units inbalance.I think the players are just way too lazy and they rather choose to complain than find a way around some "imbalance". In bw carriers were always op once you hahd like 8-10 yet they were never nerfed,guys like Flash actually tried hard and found ways to deal with carriers rather easy.
The only imbalance is the dark ambiance and units cluttering wich is much worse than the dozen of "changes" they do daily to balance the game.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 22 2012 16:12 GorGor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 13:01 Infernal_dream wrote:On December 22 2012 12:40 RavenLoud wrote:On December 22 2012 12:01 Jumonji wrote:As zerg we played with 3 range roaches , that was bad and we weren't as much complaining as everyone now. I'm sorry but that's revisionist history. Zerg were the biggest complainers in all of WoL. Followed by Terran. But you know what, I agree with terran QQ in HoTs. What they're doing with the race is horrible. They're not fixing any of the problems in WoL. THey're just making bio even stronger, making mech weaker (indirectly though unit creation in other races) and leaving air the same. Bio isn't as fun as mech. Bio would be fun to watch in BW not in sc2. Protoss is easily a bigger complainer than Terran in WOL. It's not even close.
Terran complain when there win rate drops to 55%..... Terran is by far the biggest QQers
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On December 22 2012 17:32 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 16:12 GorGor wrote:On December 22 2012 13:01 Infernal_dream wrote:On December 22 2012 12:40 RavenLoud wrote:On December 22 2012 12:01 Jumonji wrote:As zerg we played with 3 range roaches , that was bad and we weren't as much complaining as everyone now. I'm sorry but that's revisionist history. Zerg were the biggest complainers in all of WoL. Followed by Terran. But you know what, I agree with terran QQ in HoTs. What they're doing with the race is horrible. They're not fixing any of the problems in WoL. THey're just making bio even stronger, making mech weaker (indirectly though unit creation in other races) and leaving air the same. Bio isn't as fun as mech. Bio would be fun to watch in BW not in sc2. Protoss is easily a bigger complainer than Terran in WOL. It's not even close. Terran complain when there win rate drops to 55%..... Terran is by far the biggest QQers
terran whines after the queen patch which i think is right after looking at the win rates in gsl for tvz now.
Toss whines soooooooooo much when 1-1-1 was popular it wasnt even funny.
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On December 22 2012 18:17 PaperPrinter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 17:32 SuperYo1000 wrote:On December 22 2012 16:12 GorGor wrote:On December 22 2012 13:01 Infernal_dream wrote:On December 22 2012 12:40 RavenLoud wrote:On December 22 2012 12:01 Jumonji wrote:As zerg we played with 3 range roaches , that was bad and we weren't as much complaining as everyone now. I'm sorry but that's revisionist history. Zerg were the biggest complainers in all of WoL. Followed by Terran. But you know what, I agree with terran QQ in HoTs. What they're doing with the race is horrible. They're not fixing any of the problems in WoL. THey're just making bio even stronger, making mech weaker (indirectly though unit creation in other races) and leaving air the same. Bio isn't as fun as mech. Bio would be fun to watch in BW not in sc2. Protoss is easily a bigger complainer than Terran in WOL. It's not even close. Terran complain when there win rate drops to 55%..... Terran is by far the biggest QQers terran whines after the queen patch which i think is right after looking at the win rates in gsl for tvz now. Toss whines soooooooooo much when 1-1-1 was popular it wasnt even funny.
I remember that for the first year or so of the game Protoss was whining about Zerg and Zerg was whining about Protoss while Terran won everything 
But really, all races have whined pretty equally whenever their race was doing poorly in the current state of balance / metagame. Terran's have probably complained the least overall, but only because they haven't really had a reason too until recently with the full effects of the Queen Patch rearing it's ugly head.
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On December 22 2012 18:17 PaperPrinter wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 17:32 SuperYo1000 wrote:On December 22 2012 16:12 GorGor wrote:On December 22 2012 13:01 Infernal_dream wrote:On December 22 2012 12:40 RavenLoud wrote:On December 22 2012 12:01 Jumonji wrote:As zerg we played with 3 range roaches , that was bad and we weren't as much complaining as everyone now. I'm sorry but that's revisionist history. Zerg were the biggest complainers in all of WoL. Followed by Terran. But you know what, I agree with terran QQ in HoTs. What they're doing with the race is horrible. They're not fixing any of the problems in WoL. THey're just making bio even stronger, making mech weaker (indirectly though unit creation in other races) and leaving air the same. Bio isn't as fun as mech. Bio would be fun to watch in BW not in sc2. Protoss is easily a bigger complainer than Terran in WOL. It's not even close. Terran complain when there win rate drops to 55%..... Terran is by far the biggest QQers terran whines after the queen patch which i think is right after looking at the win rates in gsl for tvz now. Toss whines soooooooooo much when 1-1-1 was popular it wasnt even funny.
No i think terran complained after every nerf even though they didnt really dip below 55%. It goes something like this "we arent koreans so we cant play like them... sure korean terran have 55+% win rate but us foreign terrans/ladder players suck". Now after queen buff its "terran sucks QQ all day imba this imba that patch this patch that"
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On December 22 2012 14:18 lorestarcraft wrote:
Reapers seem really op right now. Got 5 rax reapered as zerg. Lings dont even connect.
Make a roach or two. Or queens. You can't say reapers seem op cause you can't counter them with lings. It's like me saying mutas are op cause I cant kill them with marauders.
Don't make such statements, cause it is low level and uninformed zerg players like yourself that made the today's zerg as imba as it is today. I don't think starcraft can afford to have another year where zerg players like you determine balance. I will tell you the truth: zerg is very very op in HOTS. Swarm hosts, rocket hydras, blinding cloud. SIege range of infestor. Uber ultra that two shots 20 marines. Nope, I will not stand by idly. Infestor is currently ridiculous, so are rocket hydras + cloud. Mine was nerfed to oblivion, so were medivacs. Looking at recent wol tournaments, dominated by zergs (ipl, gsl, mlg, hsc, gsl blizz cup, bwc), zerg doesn't need any buffs in hots. You can't make an expansion and buff the race which is on top of every tournament and nerf the race that doesn't even qualify on any tournament, and then expect to have balance.
What blizzard are doing is beyond my comprehension. Zerg is blatantly imbalanced in WOL, and now they buff it in HOTS while terran is uber underpowered in WOL and they nerf it even more in HOTS? Nice strategy.
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On December 22 2012 14:18 lorestarcraft wrote:
Reapers seem really op right now. Got 5 rax reapered as zerg. Lings dont even connect.
5 rax reaper sounds really OP until you understand that a 1 base zerg roach rush would kill that Terran in an instant. Make roaches next he does it and just kill him.
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On December 22 2012 14:18 lorestarcraft wrote:
Reapers seem really op right now. Got 5 rax reapered as zerg. Lings dont even connect.
I think a "safe" opener in Zvt requires continuous queen production and a 35-ish roach Warren. I do that and while reapers are annoying they're not unbeatable.
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On December 22 2012 19:06 madespecifically wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2012 14:18 lorestarcraft wrote:
Reapers seem really op right now. Got 5 rax reapered as zerg. Lings dont even connect. Make a roach or two. Or queens. You can't say reapers seem op cause you can't counter them with lings. It's like me saying mutas are op cause I cant kill them with marauders. Don't make such statements, cause it is low level and uninformed zerg players like yourself that made the today's zerg as imba as it is today. I don't think starcraft can afford to have another year where zerg players like you determine balance. I will tell you the truth: zerg is very very op in HOTS. Swarm hosts, rocket hydras, blinding cloud. SIege range of infestor. Uber ultra that two shots 20 marines. Nope, I will not stand by idly. Infestor is currently ridiculous, so are rocket hydras + cloud. Mine was nerfed to oblivion, so were medivacs. Looking at recent wol tournaments, dominated by zergs (ipl, gsl, mlg, hsc, gsl blizz cup, bwc), zerg doesn't need any buffs in hots. You can't make an expansion and buff the race which is on top of every tournament and nerf the race that doesn't even qualify on any tournament, and then expect to have balance. What blizzard are doing is beyond my comprehension. Zerg is blatantly imbalanced in WOL, and now they buff it in HOTS while terran is uber underpowered in WOL and they nerf it even more in HOTS? Nice strategy.
Jesus Christ some people really need to look in a mirror.
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EPT
