Beta Balance Update #10 - Page 59

On December 20 2012 05:31 Big J wrote:


And that's good. Countering small units like marines is exactly the designed purpose of fungal. I'm all for making it skilldependend to which degree, but if one player makes the strategical choice to run marines into infestors, than the Infestor player should be in the better position. Not so much if the Terran brings siege tanks (because they should be a superior choice to infestors - and hopefully are now with the IT changes)

On December 20 2012 07:06 Utukka wrote:


I'm not saying I just wanted broodwar with shiny new graphics. Here's an example of what I mean.

Terran: Marine, add Marauder, Medic, Firebat, add reaper, tank, vulture, remove wraith(add viking/banshee), BC, dropship(add upgrade to medivac), add thor, goliath, add orbital/planetary, ghost, add raven, science vessel.

Zerg: Zergling, add baneling, add roach, hydra, lurker, add WoL queen and turn old queen into an upgrade for WoL queen that has inject/broodling/ensnare/tumor, ultra, defiler, add viper(change blinding cloud to something else), muta, devourer, guardian, scourge.

Protoss: Zealot(keep speed instead of charge), dragoon(add blink), add sentry(something besides FF), templar, archon, darkarchon, darktemplar, add MS core(change recall to something else), remove scout, add voidray, corsair(add graviton beam as an upgrade instead of disruption web?) , add tempest, carrier, arbiter, add oracle, reaver, obs, have warp gate mechanic BUT have it be tied to warpin AT NEXUS and have warp prism be an upgrade for shuttle, add immortal.

I don't know about you, but the mixture of broodwar + WoL units and the modification of a few things look far more interesting and micro intensive than what we currently have in place. There's still plenty of "fresh" new units and abilities while maintaining many of the things that made BW great. It's called building upon the foundation, you know, remove the bad, add more, and improve what's in place.

Balance of it is a whole different debate and sorry for getting slightly off topic from the beta changes.

On December 20 2012 10:34 rQvicious wrote:

Wait your telling me storm doesn't effect protoss units? if this is true that is fucking stupid. Tanks give splash.. to friendlies.

On December 20 2012 10:22 ultratorr wrote:
They REALLY need to get rid of micro-limiting abilities like fungal, force field, time warp, etc. UNLESS there is a way for the opposing player to counteract them, and casting the ability requires some thought and finesse.

Ideas to counteract make micro-limiting spells:
- Slow fungal projectile to make it extremely dodgeable (since 1 fungal hit = 10 fungals hit)
- Medivac "restoration" unroots fungaled units
- Medivac with speed boost lifts units over force fields / roach burrow movement under ff (in hots this is actually better than in wol)
- Medivac with speed boost lifts units to get out of time warp (and what about Mech?)

Ideas to make micro-limiting spells require thought and finesse
- channeled ff (many variations here, eg. ff requiring energy in the same way as cloak: X to activate, while draining Y/sec)
- time warp and fungal slow affect friendly units (I don't know why most Z and P spells don't affect friendly units)



EDIT:
- Similar things can be said for "hard counters". Hard counters are not interesting because hard countering your opponent does not require finesse (though requires thought, or maybe more luck).

In general, the game should involve BOTH players trying to outplay each other, not whether one player plays well enough. Micro-limiting spells are making the game a one-player game.