Beta Balance Update #10 - Page 35

On December 19 2012 12:46 nomyx wrote:
83 days left until HOTS is released.

My wishlist (please read santa)

1. Widow mine no longer hits air, but is much stronger vs ground
2. Infestor nerfs, they should be a support unit like a spellcaster should be. My favorite change would be to make fungal a 50%~ slow and a slight damage buff, but it only brings targets to 1 hp (like plague). This would promote infestors as a support unit to the zerg army, not the whole zerg army
3. Hydra / Swarm host buffs. Reverting WoL beta nerfs to the hydra would be nice
4. Tank buff. Way too many counters to the tank. 2 supply / 100 gas or 50 damage default.
5. Bunker build time decreased.

On December 19 2012 13:08 mprs wrote:


Pretty sure widow mines can't be stronger vs ground. They are already ridiculously good against ground.

I think the design of the infestor needs to be fixed. If you recall back to BW, the defiler was fucking ridiculously OP, but it fit within the game design. It was really strong defensively, so if someone had a defiler near a choke, you had the option of simply not going up that choke. I wouldn't mind the infestor being a super strong OP spell caster if it was only defensive, and its offensive capability wasn't so good. It gives options to the opponent. Right now, the infestor is either terrible at everything, or amazing at everything. I say buff it even more, but give it some form of exploitable vulnerability like slow speed or lower HP or inability to move while burrowed.

Right now it is a swiss army knife that can shoot bullets. No matter how you change it, it will either be super good or super terrible. The second zergs see it as a weaker alternative to other units, they will just build the other units. But if you give it a specific role in the game, it will be much easier to balance. Put your foot down blizzard, and say this unit is defensive. Make fungal stronger however way you want, and make it slower. That way, you can make 20 infestors and survive for ever, but you will lose offensive capability and it will end up being dead weight in the end game. So you will want many 4-5 a game to control some strategic points of the game. This way, it won't be ridiculous where building more is always better. Also, if people wanted to get offensive with them, maybe start doing some form of overload carry and stuff, kind of like how we see HerO use warpprism and HTs. At least there will be some strategy involved.

On December 19 2012 12:44 Velinath wrote:
Can we maybe look at fundamentally changing the way Fungal works? Obviously from the insane amount of balancing that Blizzard is trying to do, the basic concept of the spell simply isn't working.

On a more constructive note, I think that the Widow Mine change is a step in the right direction. I still feel like splash of 40 is pretty insane, but that may be because I'm used to watching people skimp on detection in WoL. I'm not sure if it's still one-shotting Overseers, but I would say that that's my major concern - bring an overseer to scout, mismicro once and your push is over - that would suck. That said, I think the BEST possible solution is to just remove Widow Mine targeting air units.

Also, and this probably echoes others' sentiments, but I miss the tank. Can we have some buffs to that?

On December 19 2012 13:13 ZjiublingZ wrote:


Widow Mines never 1 shotted Overseers, in any HotS version, ever.

I see a lot of people, most seem to be Zergs, saying Mines shouldn't hit air units. Maybe they are right, the biggest argument seems to be Mutalisks. Using an overseer to spot for mines slows down your muta harass, and you are still vulnerable to mines in unexpected locations.

I just want people to think about what a Widow Mine is if all it does is hit ground units, after being burrowed. No cloaked units even anymore. Just single target damage and then ~33% damage to units surrounding. What we have is a unit that is almost identical to the Siege Tank in function at that point, but with less range and cloaked when "sieged". So yeah, there are still a few uses with Widow Mines if they don't hit air. Putting them in chokes, putting them in 4th/5th/6th bases, using them before detection is out for defense (only really possible vs Zerg...). But once the races have detection, if Widow Mines don't hit air, what is the point of having Widow Mines out on the map? All it takes is the races flying Detection to just be sweeping the map and clearing these units out. It's not like the races don't already have map control against Mech to do this.

If getting rid of Widow Mine's anti-air is really the solution, just scrap the unit. What a 1 dimensional unit it would be if it only hit ground.

On December 19 2012 13:09 DemigodcelpH wrote:


Widow Mines are great if you like losing past 10 minutes.

On December 19 2012 13:01 Harbinger631 wrote:
Infestor changes are good. Fast projectile, still dodgeable, weaker infested Terran.

On December 19 2012 06:43 SheaR619 wrote:


Not necessarily, it is invisble. I would think that it would still have a role since it cheap and decent map control.

And finally, Good BYE mech TvP. Clearly they dont wana fix it lol.

On December 19 2012 06:46 SheaR619 wrote:
Wait so mine dont even 1 shot protoss units and roaches now? Wow their pretty useless now lol except in a few situation but largely useless.

On December 19 2012 13:58 pure.Wasted wrote:


Bingo. A lot of the complaints over FG were about how it only took one player's skill into account (Z), and although the nerfs seem to have mollified most people, that actually hasn't changed. The spell still only takes the Z's skill into account. There's just a higher margin of error, and a lot more luck in the equation.

On December 19 2012 06:18 Archas wrote:
Were Infestors really so neutered by the previous Fungal Growth change that Blizzard needed to boost the range and missile speed this much?

Serious question, by the way.

On December 19 2012 14:04 Plansix wrote:


We all know they are going to nerf the speed of the missile. They are just testing different ranges. The last one was to short and slow. This one is likely to long and quick. I bet the third time they get it about right and it goes a reasonable speed and likely has around 8-9 range.

You don't known until you unleash the changes to the masses of the community.

On December 19 2012 13:40 Integra wrote:
Looks like Blizzard saw that MMM was the main strategy for Terran vs Zerg. I really wish they would buff the ultralisk instead of the combination of nerfing terran and buffing infestor. Right now ultralisks are useless and it feels like it would had been better if they made ultras a primary counter to late game bio Terrans...