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No mention of the dead and forgotten tank, no mention of mech at all, nerfing board control, and Fungal buffs after two weeks.
Can't really expect much from Blizzard though. Had high hopes when things were looking good a few weeks ago, but unfortunately it seems to have been a false alarm.
On December 19 2012 11:51 avilo wrote:
Infestor fungal is now stronger because infestors in the back can now launch fungals a lot easier than before where as you had to move infestors out of the way previously to get in range to fungal, as well as infestors getting in range of the enemy.
It's even more "ez mode now." I urge everyone to go into the unit tester and try it yourself. Wait till we see games with 20+ infestors again, where they are carbet bombing fungals, it's going to be about as easy as wings of liberty (in some cases even easier )because you can get many more off.
facepalms at this patch*
I just hope such an absurd change won't last long.
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On December 19 2012 12:12 emc wrote:
fungal buff is really for mutas and phoenix. Currently phoenix openers absolutely destroys zerg right now because phoenix were given +1 range recently and it makes a clean transition into the new deadly skytoss. Mutas in ZvZ are dominant right now, and I love that, but infestors were glaringly bad against mutas. Increased HP regen, lower HP eggs, a projectile fungal with less range and not to mention is slow as hell. That was 10 speed, 15 speed is a 50% bonus so it should make considerable difference. Range 10 allows the infestor player to actually try and anticipate armies. Before if you tried to hit a unit at 8 range, it could be dodged, with this change the dodge can still occur, but infestors can throw out the projectile further ahead to catch a fleeing army at 8 range. We'll have to see how this works.
I see why this is a problem, people don't want to see mass infestors. I and many others would prefer a hydra buff, as it could conceivably fix ZvZ muta wars and perhaps give zerg a chance against phoenix into tempest/carrier.
I think it would be interesting if they gave fungal a higher range but made the projectile slow. That way you could snag slower units from afar more easily but quick units would be able to dodge. That would be nice.
Right now you can't even dodge the fungal from shorter than 7-8 range unless it's with speedlings, and you can't dodge the max range of 10 fungal with anything slower than a stimmed marine.
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On December 19 2012 12:11 ElMeanYo wrote:
Just played a few games vs Terran while going infestors.
Well fungal isn't that much better than it was before this patch... still can't hit hellions or stimmed marines with it. The speed makes more of a difference than the range increase. Had the Terran bum-rush my infestors a few times, that worked surprisingly well. Haven't tested vs P or Z yet.
Actually what has really hurt the infestor more was the IT nerf... ITs are pretty much useless in combat now... more for emergency AA or burrow worker harassment.
It's an amazing coincidence how all the zerg icons are saying infestors are still bad and the buffs don't do much.
I personally watched Catz play a ZvP, his first impressions were that fungal is stronger than ever in ZvP now that it has 10 range. Like most of us he was baffled what Blizzard was thinking when they did this. FWIW.
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Holy shit I was so wrong. That 15 speed projectile is like EMP. Fast!
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Also, fungal now is longer than the sight of infestor. Infestor sight is 10. So you can hit things that is out of your infestor's vision. WTF
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Range 10 and missile 15. Yeah, totally modest buffs!
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On December 19 2012 12:24 larse wrote:
Also, fungal now is longer than the sight of infestor. Infestor sight is 10. So you can hit things that is out of your infestor's vision. WTF
Burrowed roaches
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On December 19 2012 12:24 larse wrote:
Also, fungal now is longer than the sight of infestor. Infestor sight is 10. So you can hit things that is out of your infestor's vision. WTF
Worse is that you can hit mutas that can't see the infestors, you have vision because they are attacking the mineral line.
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infestors change will probably be less a problem when people play with high latency, it will be more noticeable in offline tournaments i think. But that range buff don't make sense to me :D, Blizzard try to make infestor risk free spell casting unit again?
The biggest problem imo is good overlord placement and creep tumors that give so much vision to zerg.
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On December 19 2012 12:28 lemonbone wrote:
infestors change will probably be less a problem when people play with high latency, it will be more noticeable in offline tournaments i think. But that range buff don't make sense to me :D, Blizzard try to make infestor risk free spell casting unit again?
The biggest problem imo is good overlord placement and creep tumors that give so much vision to zerg.
I am not sure about that. At high latency, the 15 speed might as well be insta since you can't really react to it.
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On December 19 2012 12:28 lemonbone wrote:
infestors change will probably be less a problem when people play with high latency, it will be more noticeable in offline tournaments i think. But that range buff don't make sense to me :D, Blizzard try to make infestor risk free spell casting unit again?
The biggest problem imo is good overlord placement and creep tumors that give so much vision to zerg.
It'll be more of a problem with latency, it is already really really hard to dodge the fungal. Now it will basically hit by the time you try to react.
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Anyone else concerned for HOTS? I was hoping that blizzard would try to buff other zerg units (swarm host + hydralisk) but they want to keep the 20-30 investor meta game alive 
didn't they watch blizzcup?
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On December 19 2012 11:56 vthree wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2012 11:55 Basileus wrote:
just tested it out. 15 seems really fast. 10 was too slow for sure, but this seems like overkill. Its not quite insta-cast but its pretty close. Perhaps something like range 9 speed 12 would be reasonable? Seems more reasonable. Not sure why they have to tweak the numbers so drastically...
Wow. Sounds so reasonable. And yet, they went with the +1 range over WoL and high speed projectile route.
I think Blizzard's throught process was, "we need to make the fungal fast enough to catch HotS mutalisks". And, voila.
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Can we maybe look at fundamentally changing the way Fungal works? Obviously from the insane amount of balancing that Blizzard is trying to do, the basic concept of the spell simply isn't working.
On a more constructive note, I think that the Widow Mine change is a step in the right direction. I still feel like splash of 40 is pretty insane, but that may be because I'm used to watching people skimp on detection in WoL. I'm not sure if it's still one-shotting Overseers, but I would say that that's my major concern - bring an overseer to scout, mismicro once and your push is over - that would suck. That said, I think the BEST possible solution is to just remove Widow Mine targeting air units.
Also, and this probably echoes others' sentiments, but I miss the tank. Can we have some buffs to that?
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83 days left until HOTS is released.
My wishlist (please read santa)
1. Widow mine no longer hits air, but is much stronger vs ground
2. Infestor nerfs, they should be a support unit like a spellcaster should be. My favorite change would be to make fungal a 50%~ slow and a slight damage buff, but it only brings targets to 1 hp (like plague). This would promote infestors as a support unit to the zerg army, not the whole zerg army
3. Hydra / Swarm host buffs. Reverting WoL beta nerfs to the hydra would be nice
4. Tank buff. Way too many counters to the tank. 2 supply / 100 gas or 50 damage default.
5. Bunker build time decreased.
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Blizzard is rolling their mistakes. They start with the refusal to use reaver and spider mines. Replace it with gimmicky air toss and retarded widow mines. Try to buff old units to match their silly mistakes, and here we go, more stupid changes and soon we will be left with a bad HOTS. Not much hope for the nx expansion.
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I play as zerg and i'm sick of infestors.
You need them to have an even engagement on ZvZ.
You need them to be cost effective against mass marines and break siege lines on ZvT.
You need them to counter forcefields on ZvP.
I loved the muta rapid regenaration and have been using them much more since last patch.
Why blizzard don't buff another units instead of infestor? That way we would have more choices and more fun.
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On December 19 2012 12:39 nomyx wrote:Anyone else concerned for HOTS? I was hoping that blizzard would try to buff other zerg units (swarm host + hydralisk) but they want to keep the 20-30 investor meta game alive didn't they watch blizzcup?
Concerned because they buffed the infestor after nerfing it heavily? Not at all. The game is still over 3 months away, and they are taking their time with things. I still have a lot of faith with upcoming changes to make the game more exciting.
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Infestor changes are good. Fast projectile, still dodgeable, weaker infested Terran.
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this game just gets worse and worse, reason I stopped playing it.
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EPT
