Beta Balance Update #10 - Page 17

On December 19 2012 07:44 Zelniq wrote:
It may sound outrageous, especially for those who haven't been able to play the beta... I know I'd feel the same way before I'd gotten a chance to try out the change from Instant Fungal to Missile. But after I tried it, I was surprised how much of a nerf it was. Before you'd always land perfect fungals on groups of units, now many times you'll miss units completely vs moving units, and fast ones are very tough to fungal.

Also, remember that ofc the further the target is, the harder it is to Fungal it. And the more time they have to run away.

This is actually a bigger deal than you'd think.

Giving the missile a move speed effectively reduces the max range that you can actually hit anything. Many times the times you want to use Fungal the most is vs units that are retreating, and before today's patch, Fungaling stalkers that were just running away (not even Blinking) was effectively as if you shot an Instant Fungal of like range 6 (6's just a guess), because they'd have to had been within 6 range of your Infestor at the time you tried to Fungal. Because by the time the projectile got to where you targeted at the max range of 8, they'd be well out of range of course.

Faster retreating units like stimmed bio/hellions/phoenixes/mutas would be even more extreme, meaning that they'd have to be even closer to your infestors to be Fungaled or they'd be out of range. This is not even factoring in how with a missile, they can move in other directions or dodge and make it even harder. And then there's Blink.

I'd wait to try it out before overreacting, these changes might be reasonable.

BTW, for an extreme example: Imagine if Fungal had the same missile speed but a max range of 20. You'd never actually be able to Fungal anything moving from a distance of 20, the enemy would easily just dodge away long beforehand. This is just to illustrate that a max range of a moving missile is so different from instant missiles/spells that it should not be compared.
But it IS constantly compared with other things that are instant range, shocking/enraging nerds everywhere when they just see that "range 10" number in the patch notes.

On December 19 2012 07:51 crbox wrote:
Huh I don't get it why did they like buffed the hell out of fungal lol. Not really following the Hots scene but isn't it a general consensus that Fungal is overpowered?

On December 19 2012 07:50 Insoleet wrote:


The brainless whining at each page of this thread is pretty annoying actually. Sorry if it hurts, was not what i intended to do.

On December 19 2012 07:51 crbox wrote:
Huh I don't get it why did they like buffed the hell out of fungal lol. Not really following the Hots scene but isn't it a general consensus that Fungal is overpowered?

On December 19 2012 07:48 iEchoic wrote:


This isn't a good analogy because the new fungal travels the 10 range faster than it used to travel the 8 range. If they didn't increase the speed as well, this wouldn't be an issue.

Imagine in your example that the fungal traveled 20 range faster than it currently travels 10. That's the proper analogy, and yeah, that would be broken.

On December 19 2012 07:44 Zelniq wrote:
It may sound outrageous, especially for those who haven't been able to play the beta... I know I'd feel the same way before I'd gotten a chance to try out the change from Instant Fungal to Missile. But after I tried it, I was surprised how much of a nerf it was. Before you'd always land perfect fungals on groups of units, now many times you'll miss units completely vs moving units, and fast ones are very tough to fungal.

Also, remember that ofc the further the target is, the harder it is to Fungal it. And the more time they have to run away.

This is actually a bigger deal than you'd think.

Giving the missile a move speed effectively reduces the max range that you can actually hit anything. Many times the times you want to use Fungal the most is vs units that are retreating, and before today's patch, Fungaling stalkers that were just running away (not even Blinking) was effectively as if you shot an Instant Fungal of like range 6 (6's just a guess), because they'd have to had been within 6 range of your Infestor at the time you tried to Fungal. Because by the time the projectile got to where you targeted at the max range of 8, they'd be well out of range of course.

Faster retreating units like stimmed bio/hellions/phoenixes/mutas would be even more extreme, meaning that they'd have to be even closer to your infestors to be Fungaled or they'd be out of range. This is not even factoring in how with a missile, they can move in other directions or dodge and make it even harder. And then there's Blink.

I'd wait to try it out before overreacting, these changes might be reasonable.

BTW, for an extreme example: Imagine if Fungal had the same missile speed but a max range of 20. You'd never actually be able to Fungal anything moving from a distance of 20, the enemy would easily just dodge away long beforehand. This is just to illustrate that a max range of a moving missile is so different from instant missiles/spells that it should not be compared.
But it IS constantly compared with other things that are instant range, shocking/enraging nerds everywhere when they just see that "range 10" number in the patch notes.

On December 19 2012 07:53 Valerian wrote:
Do people don't use their brain? IT'S A PROJECTILE. Which means more range = nerf = more time to micro. Use some of your head to think why did Blizzard made a speed buff to the projectile.

On December 19 2012 07:53 Crawdad wrote:


It used to be, before it became a projectile and was nerfed to range 8.

Range 10 with a speed of 15 is probably AS good as it was pre-patch.

On December 19 2012 07:53 Valerian wrote:
Do people don't use their brain? IT'S A PROJECTILE. Which means more range = nerf = more time to micro. Use some of your head to think why did Blizzard made a speed buff to the projectile.

On December 19 2012 07:55 Plansix wrote:


He knows this without using the ability against real units or playing the game. Why? Because the numbers are larger and he can work out the math in his mind.

On December 19 2012 07:54 BeyondCtrL wrote:


It would be a rational post if not for the fact that the iteration was not even tested substantially. It takes a while to develop good skills to aim spells like that. How long did Zergs have to get used to the new Fungal? We saw in WoL that as time went people got progressively better at using units and skill despite the fact that they did not change. Even when Fungal and Infestor oriented play was beginning it was no where near as good as it is today. I don't see how such a powerful spell, considering its function, was not given more time so as to probe what its actual potential could be.

Maybe it was hard to completely deny any hope for retreat for your opponent with the new Fungal, but that was the raging topic in WoL to begin with. It should not be an easy task to completely deny all retreat. Now it's easier to deny that. When we are talking about engaging the Zerg army, now it becomes, potentially, even harder than it ever was in WoL.