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kaokentake
383 Posts
give swarmhosts a hive upgrade, 100/100 that makes locusts fly and move a bit faster. now many of the weaknesses of locusts are removed, but they can still be countered very well (make them light armor so thors can aoe them, and archons/storm can still splash them) also locusts should attack ground and air obviously | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
them light armor so thors can aoe them They are already light | ||
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BaDMannerS
Bulgaria57 Posts
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On January 13 2013 03:42 BaDMannerS wrote: You are wasting your time to try to counter such imbalanced unit, guys. I see good counters here, but none of them includes dealing with the damn huge mass of simultaneous spawn form a huge distance. How the hell are we supposed to reach the imbacusts? Outdrop him? 2 widows can clear half of the locusts. Sieges can do that too | ||
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FS_SlimJim
29 Posts
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BaDMannerS
Bulgaria57 Posts
On January 13 2013 03:46 Existor wrote: Outdrop him? 2 widows can clear half of the locusts. Sieges can do that too Well, I haven't played 1v1 with T, but with P it is nearly impossible if the zerg manages to mass them. Switch to airtoss is hard to be done in small time window. If the zerg reacts with hydras the counter is lost cause. | ||
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TheSwagger
United States92 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9377 Posts
On January 13 2013 03:46 Existor wrote: Outdrop him? 2 widows can clear half of the locusts. Sieges can do that too Questions like this clearly demonstrates that (given your game understanding) the swarm hosts is if properly used - imbalanced. You simply aren't going to outdrop a zerg or get off great widow mine explosions if the zerg knows what he is doing (which would imply having a couple of hydras along with the swarm hosts). There are no viable (please reflect a bit upon what viable means before you respond) counter to mass swarm hosts/hydra, its a terribly designed unit, and this whole pressure thing should be removed. Why the hell should an opponent be punished for being a bit behind? And the thing is; he is not going die instantly --> he is goanna feel the spoon death which is upper upper boring and pointless. Instead a player being behind should lose the game due to not having enogh units to deal with the multitasking of the zerg. But if he has great mechanics and outplays the zerg he can get back into the game. The correct solution is to make the swarm hosts a purely defensive oriented unit (simila to the role of the siege tanks). "pressure-units" will never work, and the fact that Blizzard (apparently) hasn't realized this yet makes me very sad. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9377 Posts
When it comes to Swarm Host, we feel that this is a unit is still relatively new and has yet to be stretched strategically in the ways we would expect. Any time such is the case, we don't like to consider strong changes as it only makes it harder for players to pin down the intention of the unit and unique strategies accessible from its design. As a small example, it seems that a lot of players will place their Swarm Host at the front line of an engagement and simply leave it there while it slowly volleys waves of locusts at the opponent. We have yet to see solid strategies around making more mobile use of the unit, unburrowing and changing locations between volleys. There is a significant cool-down on the locust volley, so maybe there's something there for consideration. Translation: Due to our terrible design of the swarm hosts, people are using the unit in a very boring way. As they aren't using it the way we intended we won't make any attempt to fix the design flaws. Some great logic from the guys behind the warhound, entomb, collosus, the roach, vortex, fungal growth, the useless scout reaper, the 5 rax reaper, the useless WOL reaper, the OP tvt reaper, turtleoriented play and the deathball. EDIT: I forgot the cloud against mech viper, Void rays, mules, mech TvP and the abudct abililty which can't be remicro'ed against it. | ||
Zelniq
United States7166 Posts
On January 13 2013 21:29 Hider wrote: Questions like this clearly demonstrates that (given your game understanding) the swarm hosts is if properly used - imbalanced. You simply aren't going to outdrop a zerg or get off great widow mine explosions if the zerg knows what he is doing (which would imply having a couple of hydras along with the swarm hosts). . And tanks + mines? How exactly do a couple hydras do then with your plan to have a couple hydras take out every mine without getting hit? | ||
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Breach_hu
Hungary2431 Posts
On January 13 2013 03:46 Existor wrote: Outdrop him? 2 widows can clear half of the locusts. Sieges can do that too Please drop those ridicolous sentences like "2 widows can clear the half of the locusts" , they are flat out lies. If the Z uses SH's good, they you cant touch the Zerg with mech. I had a game where 10 SH tanked around 20tanks for like 2-3 minutes on a ramp. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9377 Posts
On January 14 2013 00:21 Zelniq wrote: And tanks + mines? How exactly do a couple hydras do then with your plan to have a couple hydras take out every mine without getting hit? How do you attack into a mass swarm hosts/hydra composition (which is turtling right outside your base) with mines and tanks? The only scenarios where mines can work is when the zerg hasn't got a critical mass of swarm hosts yet and when he has left them unprotected. Mines can never directly engage into an army of 10+ SH's. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On December 08 2012 04:45 Existor wrote: Just the question, Terrans got more options to kill Swarm Hosts: - Reapers as anti-light against locusts and quick infantry, can be healed - Hellbats can be healed, anti-light too - Siege Tanks already do that - Raven can easily snipe Swarm Hosts - widow mine drops to swarm host fields with 1 second burrow can kill all hosts in some second. Just drop widow mines, do their work and load back to medivac and quickly fly away! - widow mine counters all or half locusts, because they can target temporary units - banshees now are more effective against swarm hosts, because they will have some weapon upgrades from mech army They should buff locust speed to 2.25 and/or buff their health, or make 3 locust spawning at time, because right now Swarm Hosts are useless. Against Protoss zergs have problems too: - timewarp slows locusts a lot, with time warp locusts move slow like Queens offcreep - Oracles with anti-light lazer can kill many locusts just for energy cost - M-Core provides long-range detector - Void Rays can quickly kill all locusts and then more quickly with charged boost kill SHosts - you can normally recall your forces if you're atacked by many locusts - FF works well against locusts - tempests can snipe swarm hosts, not that quickly, but it's works a bit - swarm host player is very immobile against prizm drops and oracle harasses Also recommend you to view good thread about Swarm Host design flaw http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7350535414?page=1 if your trading locusts for energy then your winning the fight | ||
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Orzabal
France287 Posts
Almost all game I go for roach/hydra mix into Viper. I never loose vs a zerg who go Swarm Host (or muta of course). I think the unit is not well design because you cant use it unless you all in with it. | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On January 14 2013 01:38 Orzabal wrote: Hi, I am only play 2v2 on HotS at Master lvl. Almost all game I go for roach/hydra mix into Viper. I never loose vs a zerg who go Swarm Host (or muta of course). I think the unit is not well design because you cant use it unless you all in with it. swarm hosts need tog et figured out still right now noone knows how to really use them effectively and unit stats havent settles at all plus your playing 2v2 | ||
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Orzabal
France287 Posts
On January 14 2013 01:39 Forikorder wrote: swarm hosts need tog et figured out still right now noone knows how to really use them effectively and unit stats havent settles at all plus your playing 2v2 What do you mean by Tog ? 1v1 GM zerg dont use Swarm host. They keep with Hydra/roach/Viper. Sometime Muta vs terran | ||
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
On January 14 2013 01:45 Orzabal wrote: What do you mean by Tog ? 1v1 GM zerg dont use Swarm host. They keep with Hydra/roach/Viper. Sometime Muta vs terran because those styles are simple and easy to understand noone has (mainly because theres not been enough time) figured out how to use swarm hosts, once HoTS goes live and the Korean think tank looks at swarm hosts expect to see them used more | ||
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Orzabal
France287 Posts
On January 14 2013 01:48 Forikorder wrote: because those styles are simple and easy to understand noone has (mainly because theres not been enough time) figured out how to use swarm hosts, once HoTS goes live and the Korean think tank looks at swarm hosts expect to see them used more Why do you assume swarm host is a good unit and nobody figured out how to use them ? You could say that if you were playing at very high lvl and be very successfull with them. | ||
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Parodoxx
United States549 Posts
Swarm host cost a lot are not that great in low numbers and are niche but when you can get the mass you need its very very strong. I get swarm host when ever I am facing - Thor based mech army's - Protoss is doing a roboless all-in - I need to break a contain on myself/ contain others (works best on terran) - Close a game that is passive - Protoss has reached their mass air storm comp. (swarm host bait storms so mass corrupter can clean up air) - Spawned close by ground against protoss on specific maps Best of luck Zerg OP ^^ | ||
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BlackPanther
United States872 Posts
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